Odd. That wasn't a tag scene - I saw it on Apple TV - when I watched the episode. Is it one overseas and not in the States? Very odd.
It wasn't in the version I saw, but various reviews mention it was scripted and published after the finale was broadcast with the note it wasn't filmed for budget reasons. After that - I think he orders her to kill Halima? Or was it before?
No, he orders her to kill Halima first, then Demerzel has her conversation with Halima - chronologically, this is the first time in the series where we the audience see her that emotionally torn about something - during which she does it -, then she reports to Day it's done, and on this occasion she points out the thing with the flower he saw in her quarters and makes he devastating "emptiness" statement.
He gets back at her for bowing to Halima, by ordering her to kill Halima for him - knowing she can't disobey. And she gets back at him by telling him she knows he's empty inside?
Yes. It's also the first time we see see a Clone and Demerzel at odds with another, which is all the more remarkable because this particular one has been the one Cleon until this point shown most in her company and having a close relationship with her - as a child Dawn, he clings to her hand in 1.02. when the then current Day has the Anacreons and Thespians executed by hanging, and he keeps showing up in her quarters when she's restoring her appearance both as a child and as an adult. Finding out that she follows the Luminarian religion already disturbed him (there's the "aren't we enough for you?" conversation when she ends up saying "yes, but you all die"), and going by the look he gives her, that she bows to this particular Priestess who openly challenged him in particular comes across as a betrayal to him. (She later tells him that if she hadn't bowed, she would have lost credibility as a follower of the religion then and there, which might be true or might be an excuse, it's neatly ambigous. Though going by her scene with Halima where none but the two are present and Demerzel knows Halima will die, her wish for a purpose and answers aside form the dynasty is genuine.
It's a recurring power-play. She does it in Episode 9 (?) when she apologizes to him for not raising him right - and as a result he's a complete failure as a ruler and man - to such a degree, that he's clearly devastated by what she's said. And she does it before taking off, and right before he destroys Terminus against her advice. She knows he's going to - which is most likely why she says it.
Agreed, though that's a different Day, a hundred thirty years after the one who went to the spiral. (Day who went through the Spiral = Cleon XIII, s1. Day who destroys Terminus = Cleon XVII, s2.)
I can see Friedman's hand in that. Along with Espenson's. Both handle AI/human interactions very well.
Very true. I was also thinking this when Hari-in-the-vault talks directly to Demerzel repeatedly despite Day trying to have an eclusive conversation with him. It reminded me a bit of John Henry (the AI who isn't Skynet) meeting Cameron in the SCC finale. Once you've watched the Foundation s2 finale, you'll see the Hari-Demerzel encounter had a direct and fateful consequence.
Re: the Mule: I don't remember much because it was so long ago, but I don't think he's completely evil in the books, no. Also, note that we've already seen a difference between how Gaal sees him in her visions - as someone terrifying and aggressive who instantly attacks her, with goggles covering most of his face, dehumanizing him - and how we the audience see him in the season's tag scene (face uncovered, very human, shivering, afraid, seeing Gaal as the coming menace).
no subject
Odd. That wasn't a tag scene - I saw it on Apple TV - when I watched the episode. Is it one overseas and not in the States? Very odd.
It wasn't in the version I saw, but various reviews mention it was scripted and published after the finale was broadcast with the note it wasn't filmed for budget reasons.
After that - I think he orders her to kill Halima? Or was it before?
No, he orders her to kill Halima first, then Demerzel has her conversation with Halima - chronologically, this is the first time in the series where we the audience see her that emotionally torn about something - during which she does it -, then she reports to Day it's done, and on this occasion she points out the thing with the flower he saw in her quarters and makes he devastating "emptiness" statement.
He gets back at her for bowing to Halima, by ordering her to kill Halima for him - knowing she can't disobey. And she gets back at him by telling him she knows he's empty inside?
Yes. It's also the first time we see see a Clone and Demerzel at odds with another, which is all the more remarkable because this particular one has been the one Cleon until this point shown most in her company and having a close relationship with her - as a child Dawn, he clings to her hand in 1.02. when the then current Day has the Anacreons and Thespians executed by hanging, and he keeps showing up in her quarters when she's restoring her appearance both as a child and as an adult. Finding out that she follows the Luminarian religion already disturbed him (there's the "aren't we enough for you?" conversation when she ends up saying "yes, but you all die"), and going by the look he gives her, that she bows to this particular Priestess who openly challenged him in particular comes across as a betrayal to him. (She later tells him that if she hadn't bowed, she would have lost credibility as a follower of the religion then and there, which might be true or might be an excuse, it's neatly ambigous. Though going by her scene with Halima where none but the two are present and Demerzel knows Halima will die, her wish for a purpose and answers aside form the dynasty is genuine.
It's a recurring power-play. She does it in Episode 9 (?) when she apologizes to him for not raising him right - and as a result he's a complete failure as a ruler and man - to such a degree, that he's clearly devastated by what she's said. And she does it before taking off, and right before he destroys Terminus against her advice. She knows he's going to - which is most likely why she says it.
Agreed, though that's a different Day, a hundred thirty years after the one who went to the spiral. (Day who went through the Spiral = Cleon XIII, s1. Day who destroys Terminus = Cleon XVII, s2.)
I can see Friedman's hand in that. Along with Espenson's. Both handle AI/human interactions very well.
Very true. I was also thinking this when Hari-in-the-vault talks directly to Demerzel repeatedly despite Day trying to have an eclusive conversation with him. It reminded me a bit of John Henry (the AI who isn't Skynet) meeting Cameron in the SCC finale. Once you've watched the Foundation s2 finale, you'll see the Hari-Demerzel encounter had a direct and fateful consequence.
Re: the Mule: I don't remember much because it was so long ago, but I don't think he's completely evil in the books, no. Also, note that we've already seen a difference between how Gaal sees him in her visions - as someone terrifying and aggressive who instantly attacks her, with goggles covering most of his face, dehumanizing him - and how we the audience see him in the season's tag scene (face uncovered, very human, shivering, afraid, seeing Gaal as the coming menace).