I like Andy. I don't like Amy, but that's always been not just because of my shipping tendencies, but also because I don't like her particular strain of feminist activism. CJ was a character I always found a bit shrill as well, and am sad to say, has still not recovered in my view since the Wells seasons. (Perhaps it will then come as no surprise to say I'm not Hillary Clinton's biggest fan either. *g*) On the other hand, I like Donna and Kate and Mandy Hampton.
Actually, these days I might be more even tempered towards Amy than CJ, because I love Mary Louise Parker. Make of it what you will.
(Instead, they vented by being mad at Bruno & Co.)
Well, they don't have anyone else to vent about, do they? The show never does give us a clear cut answer as to whom exactly was responsible for Zoey's kidnapping.
Even with the one night stand a decade ago retcon, she never worked for him, so the situations aren't remotely comparable.
There are plenty of other episodes where I don't exactly understand why CJ's ire has been drawn. She lashes out on the World War Two vets in 'Women of Qumar' because she's angry about a decision made by Nancy to reup their treaty, and yells at Toby because she feels her father's been passed up by affirmative action (!) while the episode makes it quite clear that she's actually deeply angry and upset about her father's condition.
'Women of Qumar', is in fact, another episode I can't watch because I really loathe CJ in that one. I've had a lot of debates in the past as to if that's a gendered perception of the show because Josh and Leo and Toby all have similar blowups. But to my mind, I can't think of a situation in which Josh, Toby or Leo went after a random public citizen to quite that degree.
So you might say that I was prone to disliking her prior to 'No Exit'.
But both at the same time make me think, kids, get other jobs, then I'll root for you.
I like that it's a bit messy, but it's a perfectly valid reason not to like the ship. Josh Lyman is no saint, by any means, and many of CJ's accusations about both of them are true, for all that they're also a bit wrong.
Re CJ: first of all, I didn't get the impression she thought little of Donna. I do agree she was projecting with the list of to do things [...]
I don't know about the Hoynes thing either, but having watched it sequentially over the weeks, that's the impression that first struck me and it has remained.
As for CJ, well, I think she's confused because outwardly she faces as a confident career woman who is glad she gave it all up for the job, but inwardly we know she feels a great pressure and guilt towards her personal life. (Both her father and romantically.) But I think it's equally obvious that she thinks of taking care of her father, at least, with a bit of disgust. It's something to which CJ would, like a martyr, give herself over to and get no joy in and as soon as she's able to run, she does it.
So to the extent that I think she's belittling on Donna's choices, I also feel she's lashing out with self-loathing towards the bit of her that feels torn about her own choices and that in the end, it's really more revealing about her and her priorities and how she judges herself than it ever was about any decisions Donna made in reality.
no subject
Actually, these days I might be more even tempered towards Amy than CJ, because I love Mary Louise Parker. Make of it what you will.
(Instead, they vented by being mad at Bruno & Co.)
Well, they don't have anyone else to vent about, do they? The show never does give us a clear cut answer as to whom exactly was responsible for Zoey's kidnapping.
Even with the one night stand a decade ago retcon, she never worked for him, so the situations aren't remotely comparable.
There are plenty of other episodes where I don't exactly understand why CJ's ire has been drawn. She lashes out on the World War Two vets in 'Women of Qumar' because she's angry about a decision made by Nancy to reup their treaty, and yells at Toby because she feels her father's been passed up by affirmative action (!) while the episode makes it quite clear that she's actually deeply angry and upset about her father's condition.
'Women of Qumar', is in fact, another episode I can't watch because I really loathe CJ in that one. I've had a lot of debates in the past as to if that's a gendered perception of the show because Josh and Leo and Toby all have similar blowups. But to my mind, I can't think of a situation in which Josh, Toby or Leo went after a random public citizen to quite that degree.
So you might say that I was prone to disliking her prior to 'No Exit'.
But both at the same time make me think, kids, get other jobs, then I'll root for you.
I like that it's a bit messy, but it's a perfectly valid reason not to like the ship. Josh Lyman is no saint, by any means, and many of CJ's accusations about both of them are true, for all that they're also a bit wrong.
Re CJ: first of all, I didn't get the impression she thought little of Donna. I do agree she was projecting with the list of to do things [...]
I don't know about the Hoynes thing either, but having watched it sequentially over the weeks, that's the impression that first struck me and it has remained.
As for CJ, well, I think she's confused because outwardly she faces as a confident career woman who is glad she gave it all up for the job, but inwardly we know she feels a great pressure and guilt towards her personal life. (Both her father and romantically.) But I think it's equally obvious that she thinks of taking care of her father, at least, with a bit of disgust. It's something to which CJ would, like a martyr, give herself over to and get no joy in and as soon as she's able to run, she does it.
So to the extent that I think she's belittling on Donna's choices, I also feel she's lashing out with self-loathing towards the bit of her that feels torn about her own choices and that in the end, it's really more revealing about her and her priorities and how she judges herself than it ever was about any decisions Donna made in reality.
This was long. My apologies.