you only run a show twice....

[selenak]

Be on the road for a week, and what happens? A fannish timeloop, it feels like.



1) Doctor Who

The announcement that RTD will produce not only the next Doctor Who anniversary special but also the next seasons is on the one hand a blatant BBC confession of being in a panic and/or unable (unwilling?) of hiring a completely new showrunner. (I had seen on twitter in the weeks leading up to this that JMS was interested, which would certainly have been an intriguing mix, but I presume they decided the "American!!!!" backlash wasn't worth it. (Or maybe he withdrew because of point 2.)

Otoh, I do feel cautiously optimistic and looking foward to this. It's been 12 years, more than enough time to, to coin a phrase, regenerate, and also, I loved what RTD did in the last five years or so - the various miniseries - Years and Years, A Very Englsh Scandal and It's a Sin were all fascinating must-watchs for me, and I also dug his version of Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream. All these projects were different from each other, and each showed a creative mind on top of his game, with his flaws kept under control (possibly because the miniseries format and the limited budget meant there was no room for self indulgence). All of which could mean he's able to approach the Whoverse with new stories, not simply a rerun of his previous highlights (and lowlights).

Moreover, the man has a tendency to bring in actors he's worked before. Personally, I'm holding out for Lydia West who was both in Years and Years and It's a Sin (either as a Companion or a guest star), Ben Wishaw (guest star), and Nathaniel Curtis (guest star or Companion).

Characters he may or may not bring back: Here I'm hoping for Clyde and Rani from the Sarah Jane Adventures. Possibly also Luke. One or all in an episode would be lovely. And speaking of SJA, so sadly cut off due to Elisabeth Sladen's death, he was able to bring back Jo Grant for a two parter there, so maybe he can lure Katy Manning into the main show as well?

Not looking foward to: the inevitable rehash of the Moffat vs Davies fandom wars - which usually ignore that the two of them are in a mutual admiration society - but I just won't read any of the posts marked to be about that tiring subject, and I should be good. BTW, perhaps the most damming thing said about the Chibnall era is that no one seems to be writing "Chibnall vs RTD and/or Moffat" posts.



2. Babylon 5

So JMS has announced there will be a complete B5 reboot/reimagining (the way the Ron Moore headed BSG was a reboot of the Lorne Greene BSG, or the JJ Abrams movies were a reboot of the TOS Star Trek) , to be financed by the CW and headed by himself. My first instinctive reaction to hearing this was "Do not want". Because B5 isn't Star Trek or BSG, thought I, but thinking about further, I realised what I mean is that I don't feel possessive about the TOS version of ST, and have no feelings at all about the few pieces I've watched of the original Battlestar Galactica, so of course I didn't mind the way I do the idea of a rebooted Babylon 5. Also I wonder whether JMS said yes because of his ongoing bad situation with Warner Brothers and their non-marketing of B5.

Then again: It's been decades for him, he says he does it to answer the question "if you could do it all over again, what would you do differently from today's pov?", and I can't imagine he'd want to do anything not feeling creatively challenging to him. Also, I can imagine several of the arcs which had to be aborted because of rl circumstances (actors leaving, near cancellation a season early) feel like they want to be written out. (Though please, no Ivanova/Byron. Susan had a lucky escape there.)

(On a more silly note: maybe President Clark will now be a former reality tv star whose campaign motto is Make Earth Great Again.)

But...but...but... the actors. Most of all Londo, G'Kar and Vir. Right now, I cannot imagine anyone else playing these roles. Undoubtedly, I'll come around if someone gifted does - but right now? I'm fretting.

Comments

[ruric]

The one thing I took away from JMS's commentary last night was the appreciation of the original cast and the value they brought to the show. Like you I;m in two minds. More B5 YEY but on the CW? Ummmm...

OTOH might be a good time for me to do a proper B5 rewatch. I never saw the final season - for reasons of being away the week the Shadow Wars episode aired and suddenly it was all wrapped up and it kind of lost me there. I maybe have enough distance to rewatch and enjoy it properly now - especially in anticipation of something new.

With orginal B5 I was a Sinclair girl all the way so was also somewhat thrown by the introduction of Sheridan (significantly valid reasons not withstanding I always *missed* Sinclair so very much).

[kore]

My husband and I were TOTAL Sinclair fans and it took me a looong time to warm up to Boxleitner as Sheridan, especially how JMS kind of stealth wrote him in as "guy who's really thrilled about oranges and not that deep" and worked in the tragic past and shadowy (hah) motives later. Michael O'Hare's performance was so great.

[selenak]

I missed Sinclair, too; though he wasn't my favourite character overall, he definitely was my favourite commander of the station.

I'm coming to the end of my Farscape rewatch, though I have a hectic RL schedule until November. How about a B5 rewatching starting in November, though?

[muccamukk]

I think Byron was originally to have been Talia, which might have been okay. But honestly, I liked most of the changes we got better than the Original Plan. However, he says this will be really different, so I'm interested from a "how TV has changed" PoV.

[kore]

I just had a horrible thought: if this takes off, WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE TAGS ON AO3. Lol

[gabolange]

Yeah, I find myself with extremely mixed feelings about the B5 reboot. I saw JMS describe it as more of a remix than anything else, and so in theory it might work? But also…I dunno. The original is so absolutely great, I don’t need more. I guess we shall see.

[selenak]

It certainly will provide us with food for thought and discussion!

BTW, if I was god of the fannish universe, the reboot I'd have offered to JMS to do would be Blake's 7. The original show was evidently an influence on B5 (and especially on Crusade, and while I love it, I'd also be curious to see which spin he'd put on it.

[saturnofthemoon]

I'm wondering if JMS will make the same decision the producers of 12 Monkeys, (the TV show), did when it came to recasting Brad Pitt's iconic role and gender flip some of the characters.

For some reason, I can handle idea of other people playing Londo and G'kar but the thought of anyone other than Walter Koenig as Bester breaks my heart.

[beatrice_otter]

For me, it's Delenn. I imprinted on her so hard!

[selenak]

Genderflipping several characters - which BSG did as well - certainly would contribute to making Neo Babylon its own thing.

As for Bester, aside from being a great character, he was specifically written for Walter Koenig to allow him showing the range he couldn't as Chekov, and if there is a Bester equivalent in the new show, this could not be the case anymore. Though who knows, maybe the role will also go to someone typecast previously but now allowed to fly!

[kore]

Oh it's good you reminded me of 12M! I was kind of fervently opposed to that show for a WHILE, T watched it first and loved it (T will watch anything scifi. Anything) and then I did too. Matalas (sp) really moved far beyond the movie while keeping some essential zany spirit and I loved all the rebooted and expanded characters.

....Then again, I wasn't super attached even to Jetee/12 Monkeys the film the way I was for B5. I couldn't afford the DVDs so I watched it in syndication on TNT every day for years, like I had with the X-Files. It is my core fannish DNA. I first posted to Usenet about Babylon 5. I'm trying not to be the typical "NEW IS BAD! OLD IS BETTER!" fan, but jeez, I don't know if I can do it with this show. Especially when JMS did most of the movies, and those were....not great (except for In the Beginning).

[cahn]

Here I was thinking "oh hey, maybe I can just watch this instead of of original B5!" Lol. I am seeing that the answer is "nooooo, you should definitely watch original!B5 first because no matter how great the reboot is, it will not be the same," which I completely understand, as I did feel rather possessive of ST:TOS, and I... still have not watched the rebooted movies. (Okay, at this point it's more laziness than actual antipathy, but...)

[beatrice_otter]

As a TOS fan, you will probably be understanding of "old show with some absolutely BRILLIANT characters and moments, and also some things that are really clunky."

Some of the main cast actors were absolutely INCREDIBLE actors who did amazing things, and had really meaty material to work with. A lot of the background and/or guest star actors were ... blocks of wood given terrible material to work with. The scripts ... JMS had trouble getting other writers to fit into his carefully planned arc, so he did most of the writing (and did one season where he wrote EVERY SINGLE SCRIPT, only time that's ever happened). And he showed why that was a bad idea, because he didn't have time to polish the scripts, there's a lot of really clunky stuff in them that would definitely have been better if he'd had more time to work on them. The concepts are gripping. The actual words ... are sometimes incredible, and sometimes really bad.

But holy cow, the good parts are amazing, and even the clunky bits are part of a really gripping story.

[selenak]

This reboot could be excellent beyond all fears and jitters and I would still say you can't miss out the original Babylon 5, which is such a great fannish love of mine that I would say it's on a "how Fritz feels about works of Voltaire" level. :)

My offer of telling you which episodes can safely be missed, which are an absolute must, and which are "do watch, if you find the time" early on still stands, though. :)

[ratcreature]

Reboots can tricky, though I think as a long time comic fan I'm quite used to liking multiple versions of characters and key storylines at the same time, so I mostly don't mind previous work being mined and updated.

[selenak]

I'm working myself towards fannish zen by thinking of several reboots I liked (in addition to BSG, I mean), and have come up with several, including Perry Rhodan. And hey, maybe it'll mean the original gets introduced to a new fannish generation as well!

[jesuswasbatman]

From his Tweets I get the impression that he may be reimaging the story from scratch to such an extent that there won't be a "new" Londo, G'Kar or Vir?

[selenak]

It does sound like that, though clearly a Sinclair-and-Sheridan-amalgan will still be around, going by the quoted pitch?

[jesuswasbatman]

And Ben Wishaw might well be a potential Doctor, depending on whether my suspicion that the BBC's orders are "do it exactly the way it was in 2006!" is correct.

[sovay]

But...but...but... the actors.

I really feel that Babylon 5 was lightning in a bottle and therefore have more than ambivalent feelings about a reboot, not helped by my ambivalent feelings about reboots in general, but I am reminding myself that JMS is not George Lucas and therefore if it happens it will not wipe the original as far as possible out of the historical record, there are always DVDs and I really don't care about the quality of the special effects.

[kore]

I never understood why people freak out about the f/x! I didn't watch the show for the f/x. Altho I grew up on like early Doctor Who and original Star Trek.

[kore]

1) It seemed to me like they're unhappy with the general lukewarm praise the Chibnall era got (altho I thought the ratings stayed pretty good?) and they want to go back to the Source of all the success with the reboot. I hope this doesn't mean we go back to a white guy doctor. I hope RTD treats his women a little better (FOREVER MAD about Donna) this time around. I am sooo tired of the "At least RTD has a heart/At least Moffat has a brain!" fandom type wars. I think they both wrote brilliant eps and great seasons and they both have enormous flaws. Neither Christ nor the Devil as my grandma used to say. And didn't Moffat write for RTD anyway? I don't think they're as diametrically opposed as fandom wants to make out.

2) My reaction is a huge enormous DNW which is probably totally emotional, but I loved B5 the way it is (was?) and can't imagine a "complete reimagining" but keeping the same station and maybe the original plotline. The new take revolves around John Sheridan (originally played by Bruce Boxleitner), an Earthforce officer with a mysterious background, who is assigned to Babylon 5, a 5-mile-long space station in neutral space, a port of call for travelers, smugglers, corporate explorers and alien diplomats at a time of uneasy peace and the constant threat of war. His arrival triggers a destiny beyond anything he could have imagined, as an exploratory Earth company accidentally triggers a conflict with a civilization a million years ahead of us, putting Sheridan and the rest of the B5 crew in the line of fire as the last, best hope for the survival of the human race. That just sounds....weird. I don't want it.

And frankly I personally would be sitting there really heartsick thinking of all the actors who weren't there, too.

[beatrice_otter]

Sheridan is by far the least interesting of any of the main characters. The only thing at all interesting about him is his relationship with Delenn.

And if you're going for "mysterious past" shouldn't it be "there is a hole in your mind" Sinclair?

[queenbookwench]

This is the first I’m hearing of the B5 reboot, and I feel like I could enjoy it if I think of it as a new variation on the same basic themes, still helmed by JMS.

[andraste]

We may not live in the worst timeline, but I think this is proof that we definitely live in the loopiest one! I didn't love everything RTD did, but at least he didn't bore me, which is certainly more than I can say for Chibnall.

I am oscillating between dread, anticipation and sheer bafflement over the B5 news. A reboot? On the CW, of all places?? But still helmed by JMS??? Like you, I have grave concerns about recasting Londo, G'Kar and Vir, but hopefully it'll end up like the X-Men movies where the first incarnations are my favourites but I can still accept MacAvoy and Fassbender as alternate versions. (Also: Peter Jurasik plays Emperor Turhan y/y?)

... I wonder if he can get Neil Gaiman to write for it again?

[selenak]

Peter Jurasik for Turhan (if Turhan is still in the remix) sounds like an excellent idea. Mind you, if we are taking BSG as an example, then Peter Jurasik might play a Narn instead! Bearing in mind the Apollo => Tom Zarek development for Richard Hatch.

Speaking of the X-Men movies, if the CW insists on casting everyone with young pretties, you and I can growl "we already shipped Londo and G'Kar before it was fashionable" with the best of them. A bit more seriously, though, I do hope for some middle aged character actors (of either gender!) in central roles, no matter whom they play.

[reverancepavane]

I have to admit with B5 that I am willing to see what happens, and hope that (a) he doesn't need to write an entire season himself so that it tells the story he wants to tell, and (b) it is a proper reboot rather than an attempt to recreate what was exactly.

I think a big benefit of having the reboot is that it will probably encourage a lot of the audience that was too young to have watched it originally to go back and look at the show. But then I do tend to enjoy the added emotional response that some young reactors on You Tube add to rewatching classic shows. Probably because it reminds me of the excitement I felt when I too first saw the show.

I think RTD may be able to reinstall a sense of wonder (mystery and enigma) in DW that was pretty much missing in the Chibnall era. After all, that's what he rebooted the show with in the first place. But then I was seriously "meh" over the writing of the Chibnall era.