Pieces of Eight
Feb. 29th, 2016 04:16 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakAnd it's one of those times where the week starts with me being annoyed about People Being Wrong On The Internet, Black Sails edition, brought about by, due to the lack of an lj or dw fandom, my having to resort to the den of evil tumblr to read at least a bit of discussion.
..."Queerbaiting" has joined "Mary Sue" and "Trigger" as one of those terms that once were useful but have become so overused (and abused) by fandom that they now signify nothing more than "I don't like this and want to feel righteous about it", it appears.
In this particular case, used by not just one but two branches of shippers in "if X/Y doesn't become canon this season it's totally homophobic" arguments, and in "omg one half of my pairing is showing emotions for a WOMAN! The writers are selling out!" arguments. Both are even more irritating than usual, because not only does Black Sails have canon same sex relationships, but you know what Black Sails doesn't have? Monogamous, exclusive relationships. Seriously. It just doesn't, in two and a half seasons of canon to look back on.
That goes for any romantic and/or sexual relationship between our characters we've seen, of any variety. Eleanor/Max at the start: not only did Max work as a prostitute, but Eleanor had her on/off relationship with Vane. Eleanor/Vane: see Eleanor/Max, plus Vane was depicted with a few girls through the first two seasons. (Incidentally, if and when Eleanor has sex with Woode Rogers this season, this won't be monogamous either, because she's bound to have sex with either of her exes again as well.) Jack/Anne? Became Max/Anne/Jack in a season long subplot of Anne figuring out her sexuality and identity issues. As for James/Thomas, aka the on screen m/m? Was always James/Thomas/Miranda.
And don't get me started on how much complaints that Flint's grief for Miranda is "erasing" or "retconning" his relationship with Thomas infuriate me. If you chose to believe he only cared for Miranda as a living reminder of Thomas, you weren't paying attention to the first two seasons when Miranda was on screen, or took the fact that in their one present day sex scene he was obviously detached as more important than him listening to her in a way he didn't to anyone else, the way he apologized to her about their late s1 bust up with the book gift in early s2 (when with everyone else in Flint's life it would have been "how dare you betray me by acting behind my back?") , him wanting to spend the rest of his life with her "if you'll have me" (asked in a very tender tone) and the "Do you recognize me? I recognize you" exchange in late s2. No, she wasn't a romantic sweeping him off his feet type of love the way Thomas had been. But in the decade they spent together, in which they both changed so much from the people they'd been with Thomas (something which, again, s2 already points out, see Miranda's statement about how the grown up Abigail Ashe brought home to her how much she'd changed, and Peter Ashe's disbelief at how both of them - not just Flint - could have become the people in front of him), she came to embody so many things to him, as his dreams of her (which are Flint's subconscious speaking, after all, not Miranda herself) point out - never just one thing or the other. It was complicated and messy, and one of the most interesting relationships between a man and a woman in a show. So often it annoys me when in fanfiction an OT3 that consists of two men and a woman treats the woman as just a cheerleader for the slash couple but not someone who is emotionally important to them in her own right. Here, canon delivers all I could ever hope for, and how do some fans react? Grrr. Arggh.
Oh, and before I move on from the Hamiltons, allow me this heresy: I've enjoyed and wistfully sighed over several "Thomas lives" stories in which Flint, post season 2, finds out just this. But you know what would likely happen if this was to turn out to be true on the actual show? The two men would discover that they'd become strangers to each other. Thomas knew and loved James McGraw. He'd never met James Flint. Would he fall for someone willing to shoot defenseless civilians, as Flint does in the s3 opener, to make a point in order to spread terror, someone who easily lies to just about anyone who trusts him if it suits his purposes, someone willing to kill a dear friend (Mr. Gates in s1) in pursuit of gold? Not to mention that this show being this show, a living Thomas would probably have changed, too, through the intervening years; who knows in which direction, and whether Flint, who cherishes and idealizes his memory, would be able to cope with a changed Thomas? Or even an unchanged one. Because you know who is the character closest to how Thomas Hamilton was like on the show right now? Not Billy Bones or John Silver (to name the two candidates people most ship Flint with in the current day). No, it's Woode Rogers. Clever son of privilege determined to save Nassau for the crown and from itself by general pardon, willing to enter unorthodox partnership with pragmatist in order to accomplish this goal? (For Eleanor Guthrie, insert Lt. James McGraw.) Check. And the parallel isn't lost on Flint who told Silver two episodes ago that what this is actually his old dream come true. But while Flint, in his suicidal mood, considers giving up for a while, until he's recharged with furious megalomaniac intensity, he certainly does not consider going to Nassau peacefully in order to join forces with Rogers, not even for one depressed second.
Which brings me to "If Flint/Silver or Flint/Billy doesn't become canon, the show has given into homophobia!" posts, with a sideline, in the former case, of "how dare the writers introduce a potential future Mrs. Silver!" As to the later, what she said, in addition to my earlier point re: non-existing monogamy on this show. Even if Flint/either guy became canon, what on earth makes you think this would be the one exception in this series where regular/regular would have no other sexual/romantic relationship? As to "it MUST happen, or zomg homophobia!" : not this again, and certainly not here. I mean, I have my preferences, because I love the way the Flint and Silver relationship is developing on the show; if I loved their s2 scenes with grumpy Flint and canny Silver already, I adore the "damaged manipulators are us" intensity of s3. However, I'm also aware that John Silver/Survival is the ultimate OTP of his life, survival not just in the physical but emotional sense. It's not a coincidence that all the other fictional, Stevenson-originated pirates are going to self destruct or get destroyed, but not him. (Okay, Ben Gunn also survives, but not exactly in a balanced mental state.) So I think it would be entirely ic for Silver to draw the line there: telling himself that getting involved with Flint emotionally is dangerous enough, but making it a complete affair is downright suicide. (BTW, it would also be ic for him at this point to do it anyway. Silver's a character in development with goals that are shifting, after all, and in one particular direction. Season 1: a) Survive this crazy situation, b) profit, c) get away . Season 2: Still survive and profit, for which it seems I must ally with the Captain and somehow must make the crew like me. Can't wait to get rid of both, though. Thanks, Flint, for not telling me until it was done that this whole "making the crew like me" operation would make me like the bloody crew in return. Did I just lose my leg because of that? Season 3: Great. Now my self worth is largely dependent on the crew needing me, in order to survive this I need to make Flint need me, and I'm starting to suspect I need Flint who is going steadfastly more bonkers. Getting away is out. Jury's out on profit.)
Otoh, Billy Bones Stevenson- canonically drinks himself to death, utterly disconnected and afraid of his former "brothers" (which is really depressing if you think about it), and certainly, an affair with Flint would be as good an explanation as any as to why Billy keeps declaring his hate but ends up supporting the Captain at every key point anyway. But my problem here, from a purely "do I want this to happen, and could I root for it?" pov, is the power imbalance, which makes the relationship less attractive to me. Not because Flint's the Captain. Because Flint so far has always managed to get Billy to go along with whatever scheme he had. When Flint temporarily abandoned the Urca gold retrieval because the Peter Ashe plot took precedence for him, Silver saw through Flint's reassurances immediately (and acted accordingly by making his own arrangements re: the Urca gold). Meanwhile, Billy was busy tricking Dufresne, who looked up to him and whom he had mentored in s1, so there would be no more dissenters in Flint's crew - with a "we need to unite behind Flint in order to have a hope against England" rationale, sure, but it's still prioritizing Flint's interest without having much of a clue as to just what Flint's interest actually is. And I don't think (with admittedly only a grand number of two to make the comparison) Flint is really interested in people whom he considers, fairly or unfairly, as unable to compete with him intellectually and emotionally.
(BTW, this is also why Flint/Vane is a possibility for me post Charleston which proved that our Charles could take his ship just as Flint could take it from the Spaniards and could organize a successful rescue/destroy mission as well. No, I don't think we'll get it on screen this season because there' still the inevitable Vane/Eleanor reunion - with or without hatesex - to come, but I can see it as a plausible one night stand scenario now.)
Anyway, in terms of "could it happen on screen?" the biggest pro-argument for me is that Billy post Dufresne departure has been a pretty static character, not developing in any direction, and this would at least be some development. Otoh I suspect it's more likely he'll remain through s3 that way because the big emphasis this season gives to the Silver and Flint relationship to which he's something of a Greek chorus, but might get some development (not necessarily a love life, just general development) in s4. The biggest con-argument againt Billy/Flint happening this season for me, though, is that when the show gave us James/Thomas, they preceded this with multiple scenes showing them meeting, forming a relationship, James McGraw going from extremely sceptical at Plan Save Nassau to being all for it. When it gave us Max/Anne, it prepared this by Anne showed Anne going from co-captor to forming a bond with Max to saving her in s1, to Anne noticing Max as something other than woman in distress by the end of the season, so that the s2 turn could build on it. Billy and Flint had two or so conversations this season on their own that I recall, one about Silver and the other in the most recent episode about Flint's plans re: England. Methinks if Billy were to make the radical step of bedding his Captain, he'd have gotten a bit more narrative attention first.
Be that as it may: I don't think the shows owes their viewers either relationship turning sexual to prove it's not homophobic. And not just because same sex relationships already exist on it. Even the old "but if this were a man and a woman, it WOULD turn romantic" argument doesn't work in the case of Black Sails, which offers unromantic male & female partnerships (for example: Eleanor and Flint in season 1 and partly s2, though it starts to break down there due to Flint's "my way or the high way" attitude when he comes back to Nassau and Eleanor isn't prepared to immediately sacrifice Vane; meanwhile, both Eleanor and Flint, who at no point show the slightest romantic interest in each other, have sexual and romantic relationships with other people) as well as those which do include sex.
In conclusion: I'm so looking forward to Bates Motel coming back. That one has its share of obsessed shippers as well, but due to the lack of slash ships, none of them is prone to complain that if their favourite ship doesn't get to have sex on screen, it's homophobia. They just complain the writers are mean instead. :)
..."Queerbaiting" has joined "Mary Sue" and "Trigger" as one of those terms that once were useful but have become so overused (and abused) by fandom that they now signify nothing more than "I don't like this and want to feel righteous about it", it appears.
In this particular case, used by not just one but two branches of shippers in "if X/Y doesn't become canon this season it's totally homophobic" arguments, and in "omg one half of my pairing is showing emotions for a WOMAN! The writers are selling out!" arguments. Both are even more irritating than usual, because not only does Black Sails have canon same sex relationships, but you know what Black Sails doesn't have? Monogamous, exclusive relationships. Seriously. It just doesn't, in two and a half seasons of canon to look back on.
That goes for any romantic and/or sexual relationship between our characters we've seen, of any variety. Eleanor/Max at the start: not only did Max work as a prostitute, but Eleanor had her on/off relationship with Vane. Eleanor/Vane: see Eleanor/Max, plus Vane was depicted with a few girls through the first two seasons. (Incidentally, if and when Eleanor has sex with Woode Rogers this season, this won't be monogamous either, because she's bound to have sex with either of her exes again as well.) Jack/Anne? Became Max/Anne/Jack in a season long subplot of Anne figuring out her sexuality and identity issues. As for James/Thomas, aka the on screen m/m? Was always James/Thomas/Miranda.
And don't get me started on how much complaints that Flint's grief for Miranda is "erasing" or "retconning" his relationship with Thomas infuriate me. If you chose to believe he only cared for Miranda as a living reminder of Thomas, you weren't paying attention to the first two seasons when Miranda was on screen, or took the fact that in their one present day sex scene he was obviously detached as more important than him listening to her in a way he didn't to anyone else, the way he apologized to her about their late s1 bust up with the book gift in early s2 (when with everyone else in Flint's life it would have been "how dare you betray me by acting behind my back?") , him wanting to spend the rest of his life with her "if you'll have me" (asked in a very tender tone) and the "Do you recognize me? I recognize you" exchange in late s2. No, she wasn't a romantic sweeping him off his feet type of love the way Thomas had been. But in the decade they spent together, in which they both changed so much from the people they'd been with Thomas (something which, again, s2 already points out, see Miranda's statement about how the grown up Abigail Ashe brought home to her how much she'd changed, and Peter Ashe's disbelief at how both of them - not just Flint - could have become the people in front of him), she came to embody so many things to him, as his dreams of her (which are Flint's subconscious speaking, after all, not Miranda herself) point out - never just one thing or the other. It was complicated and messy, and one of the most interesting relationships between a man and a woman in a show. So often it annoys me when in fanfiction an OT3 that consists of two men and a woman treats the woman as just a cheerleader for the slash couple but not someone who is emotionally important to them in her own right. Here, canon delivers all I could ever hope for, and how do some fans react? Grrr. Arggh.
Oh, and before I move on from the Hamiltons, allow me this heresy: I've enjoyed and wistfully sighed over several "Thomas lives" stories in which Flint, post season 2, finds out just this. But you know what would likely happen if this was to turn out to be true on the actual show? The two men would discover that they'd become strangers to each other. Thomas knew and loved James McGraw. He'd never met James Flint. Would he fall for someone willing to shoot defenseless civilians, as Flint does in the s3 opener, to make a point in order to spread terror, someone who easily lies to just about anyone who trusts him if it suits his purposes, someone willing to kill a dear friend (Mr. Gates in s1) in pursuit of gold? Not to mention that this show being this show, a living Thomas would probably have changed, too, through the intervening years; who knows in which direction, and whether Flint, who cherishes and idealizes his memory, would be able to cope with a changed Thomas? Or even an unchanged one. Because you know who is the character closest to how Thomas Hamilton was like on the show right now? Not Billy Bones or John Silver (to name the two candidates people most ship Flint with in the current day). No, it's Woode Rogers. Clever son of privilege determined to save Nassau for the crown and from itself by general pardon, willing to enter unorthodox partnership with pragmatist in order to accomplish this goal? (For Eleanor Guthrie, insert Lt. James McGraw.) Check. And the parallel isn't lost on Flint who told Silver two episodes ago that what this is actually his old dream come true. But while Flint, in his suicidal mood, considers giving up for a while, until he's recharged with furious megalomaniac intensity, he certainly does not consider going to Nassau peacefully in order to join forces with Rogers, not even for one depressed second.
Which brings me to "If Flint/Silver or Flint/Billy doesn't become canon, the show has given into homophobia!" posts, with a sideline, in the former case, of "how dare the writers introduce a potential future Mrs. Silver!" As to the later, what she said, in addition to my earlier point re: non-existing monogamy on this show. Even if Flint/either guy became canon, what on earth makes you think this would be the one exception in this series where regular/regular would have no other sexual/romantic relationship? As to "it MUST happen, or zomg homophobia!" : not this again, and certainly not here. I mean, I have my preferences, because I love the way the Flint and Silver relationship is developing on the show; if I loved their s2 scenes with grumpy Flint and canny Silver already, I adore the "damaged manipulators are us" intensity of s3. However, I'm also aware that John Silver/Survival is the ultimate OTP of his life, survival not just in the physical but emotional sense. It's not a coincidence that all the other fictional, Stevenson-originated pirates are going to self destruct or get destroyed, but not him. (Okay, Ben Gunn also survives, but not exactly in a balanced mental state.) So I think it would be entirely ic for Silver to draw the line there: telling himself that getting involved with Flint emotionally is dangerous enough, but making it a complete affair is downright suicide. (BTW, it would also be ic for him at this point to do it anyway. Silver's a character in development with goals that are shifting, after all, and in one particular direction. Season 1: a) Survive this crazy situation, b) profit, c) get away . Season 2: Still survive and profit, for which it seems I must ally with the Captain and somehow must make the crew like me. Can't wait to get rid of both, though. Thanks, Flint, for not telling me until it was done that this whole "making the crew like me" operation would make me like the bloody crew in return. Did I just lose my leg because of that? Season 3: Great. Now my self worth is largely dependent on the crew needing me, in order to survive this I need to make Flint need me, and I'm starting to suspect I need Flint who is going steadfastly more bonkers. Getting away is out. Jury's out on profit.)
Otoh, Billy Bones Stevenson- canonically drinks himself to death, utterly disconnected and afraid of his former "brothers" (which is really depressing if you think about it), and certainly, an affair with Flint would be as good an explanation as any as to why Billy keeps declaring his hate but ends up supporting the Captain at every key point anyway. But my problem here, from a purely "do I want this to happen, and could I root for it?" pov, is the power imbalance, which makes the relationship less attractive to me. Not because Flint's the Captain. Because Flint so far has always managed to get Billy to go along with whatever scheme he had. When Flint temporarily abandoned the Urca gold retrieval because the Peter Ashe plot took precedence for him, Silver saw through Flint's reassurances immediately (and acted accordingly by making his own arrangements re: the Urca gold). Meanwhile, Billy was busy tricking Dufresne, who looked up to him and whom he had mentored in s1, so there would be no more dissenters in Flint's crew - with a "we need to unite behind Flint in order to have a hope against England" rationale, sure, but it's still prioritizing Flint's interest without having much of a clue as to just what Flint's interest actually is. And I don't think (with admittedly only a grand number of two to make the comparison) Flint is really interested in people whom he considers, fairly or unfairly, as unable to compete with him intellectually and emotionally.
(BTW, this is also why Flint/Vane is a possibility for me post Charleston which proved that our Charles could take his ship just as Flint could take it from the Spaniards and could organize a successful rescue/destroy mission as well. No, I don't think we'll get it on screen this season because there' still the inevitable Vane/Eleanor reunion - with or without hatesex - to come, but I can see it as a plausible one night stand scenario now.)
Anyway, in terms of "could it happen on screen?" the biggest pro-argument for me is that Billy post Dufresne departure has been a pretty static character, not developing in any direction, and this would at least be some development. Otoh I suspect it's more likely he'll remain through s3 that way because the big emphasis this season gives to the Silver and Flint relationship to which he's something of a Greek chorus, but might get some development (not necessarily a love life, just general development) in s4. The biggest con-argument againt Billy/Flint happening this season for me, though, is that when the show gave us James/Thomas, they preceded this with multiple scenes showing them meeting, forming a relationship, James McGraw going from extremely sceptical at Plan Save Nassau to being all for it. When it gave us Max/Anne, it prepared this by Anne showed Anne going from co-captor to forming a bond with Max to saving her in s1, to Anne noticing Max as something other than woman in distress by the end of the season, so that the s2 turn could build on it. Billy and Flint had two or so conversations this season on their own that I recall, one about Silver and the other in the most recent episode about Flint's plans re: England. Methinks if Billy were to make the radical step of bedding his Captain, he'd have gotten a bit more narrative attention first.
Be that as it may: I don't think the shows owes their viewers either relationship turning sexual to prove it's not homophobic. And not just because same sex relationships already exist on it. Even the old "but if this were a man and a woman, it WOULD turn romantic" argument doesn't work in the case of Black Sails, which offers unromantic male & female partnerships (for example: Eleanor and Flint in season 1 and partly s2, though it starts to break down there due to Flint's "my way or the high way" attitude when he comes back to Nassau and Eleanor isn't prepared to immediately sacrifice Vane; meanwhile, both Eleanor and Flint, who at no point show the slightest romantic interest in each other, have sexual and romantic relationships with other people) as well as those which do include sex.
In conclusion: I'm so looking forward to Bates Motel coming back. That one has its share of obsessed shippers as well, but due to the lack of slash ships, none of them is prone to complain that if their favourite ship doesn't get to have sex on screen, it's homophobia. They just complain the writers are mean instead. :)
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Date: 2016-02-29 09:04 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2017-11-19 09:38 pm (UTC)This all makes a lot of sense to me from my vantage point of having just finished s3. (I'm going back through your meta posts - I probably should be going forward, but that would be too easy ;P)
I never saw anything hinting at a possible relationship between Billy and Flint, either.
Your Silver-thoughts are hilariously on point! (Jury's still out on profit, LOL!)
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Date: 2017-11-20 01:01 pm (UTC)If I squint, I can see where the Flint/Billy shippers came from, because in the first season they share a couple of important scenes, Billy gets manipulated into supporting Flint against his better knowledge, and “aha! He’s secretly in love” is the traditional fanfic explanation for that. But canon was clearly going in another direction, which was blatant from s2 onwards.