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selenakIn the process of catching up with ljdom: two memes during recent weeks appeal in particular.
Firstly:
Name five times that a character you like/love did something you dislike/hate.
Although this is almost too easy, considering the majority of the characters I like. I mean, I could make a list of five murderers and warmongerers with attempted genocide as a sideline alone, I guess. So, let's make this a bit trickier by leaving the likes of Arvin Sloane, Londo Mollari, Servalan or Winn Adami out of it and stick to characters usually specializing in heroics. Also, I must exclude examples like Elizabeth Swann doing that thing she does in DMC, because while it is clearly wrong, it made me adore her, which isn't the purpose of the question.
1) Laura Roslin. Obviously the abortion thing, though not the decision itself so much as the way the damm episode let her arrive at it. If I could rewrite it, I'd still let Laura make that decision - because she needed to make a monumental mistake at that point - though I'd let it play a far larger role in why Baltar wins the elections later, on a similar scale to the New Caprica question. However, I would make it clear she is making that decision because she has trapped herself by playing the religious card and by relying so much on her religious support, not because of some assumption this would somehow enlarge the population - any seasoned pro-choice campaigner, as Laura is supposed to be, would know that what it will enlarge is the crippling and death rates of women getting illegal abortions instead. So: not only did I dislike Laura making the decision - though again, that I could have seen the storytelling sense of - but that her reasoning came across as partly stupid to me, and if there is one thing Laura Roslin should not be shown as, it's stupid.
2) The Ninth Doctor and Rose: in three words, The Long Game. You know, the complaints some fans have about Ten 'n Rose being too cliqueish in the early s28/2 eps? I had that problem with Nine and Rose in The Long Game in s27/1. I hated the episode and disliked their behaviour and them in it intensely, which is why I was really grateful Father's Day made me like them again. When Nine said to Adam "I take only the best - I take Rose" I wanted to puke. (And not just because even someone with a spotty Old School knowledge like myself knew it was factually wrong - some of the companions ended up with the Doctor by accident, or on a whim. Moreover, while I could see why the Doctor would return Adam to his place of origin after Adam's attempt to exploit time travel to make cash, leaving him with that device in his head wasn't funny or punishment fit for the crime, it was irresponsible and cruel. What rubbed salt into the wound for me was that we weren't supposed to think so. Big difference between the Cyberman two-parter in s28/2 and The Long Game: in the former, we're encouraged to sympathize and root for Mickey and feel with him when he feels excluded by the Doctor and Rose; moreover, neither of them actually intends to ostracize him, and they both get scenes alone with him, and one scene where the Doctor questions Rose about Mickey's background, that makes it clear they care. In the later, we're supposed to regard Adam as the boo-hiss unworthy companion wannabe who is only an obstacle to the glorious Doctor-Rose togetherness and laugh with the Doctor and Rose when they depart, and that completely fell flat for me. So, yeah. Hated their behaviour towards Adam, and I do normally like them both. A lot.
3) Connor: I was tempted to leave him out of this list because it's almost as easy as with Londo 'n Arvin to list Connor doing Wrong Things, from dumping his father in the ocean to accepting his daughter eating the occasional bedazzled human. Oh, yeah, and the human sacrifice in between. However, all these very wrong actions are written in a way that makes you understand where Connor comes from, so I didn't hate them in the sense I'm trying to answer the meme in - I thought they were great storytelling - with one exception. Which comes in Spinning the Bottle, and is one of these examples of a writer - even Joss - trading character integrity for a punchline. The scene between Thinking-herself-17 Cordy telling Connor to kill Angel for "a big reward" (i.e. sex) and him promptly chasing after Angel is just wrong. Now I can fanwank this, as Connor never even tries to pull a stake on Angel and so presumably just intended to trash him, but still, the whole father-son drama and Connor's extremely mixed feelings for his father which at this point are swinging towards the positive part of the spectrum before going into the negative again from Awakening onwards is so important to the character that this small scene feels both ooc and cheapening it.
(3a A similar example would be Vir at the end of Sic Transit Vir, i.e. JMS doing the same thing Joss did for the sake of a punchline. Vir has just found out his betrothed and the first girl with whom he got beyond basics as far as sexual experience is concerned was actively involved in torturing and killing Narns. This more or less ends the engagement, but as she is fond of him, she parts with a kiss. Whereupon Vir says "well, which relationship doesn't have its ups and downs" and smiles fondly after her. This would be Vir, the same Vir who angsts horribly and understandably about what Londo does, who feels so guilty about the Centauri war crimes that he risks all to save Narns, who changes his mind about planning Cartagia's assassination with Londo as soon as he hears Cartagia gloating about torturing G'Kar. Try as I might, I can't fit in this last scene with Lyndisti into my understanding of Vir.)
4) Rupert Giles: This is a somewhat deceased equine of mine, but I blame Giles far more than Wesley for Faith's development in s3 of BTVS. Wesley had about 24 hours as Faith's Watcher, arrived untried directly from the academy in the middle of a crisis, reacted according to training and thus helped botching things up, but it's hard to see how he could have reacted otherwise in these circumstances. Giles had several months. From Faith's arrival in Sunnydale to Wesley's arrival, he was Faith's Watcher in addition to Buffy's. And he always showed zero interest in her. (I tend to think this was deliberate writing, btw - there is a small scene in Homecoming where Giles, arriving in the Bronze, greets Willow and Xander by name but not Faith who is standing with them.) Now I don't think this is ooc for Giles. Looking at the show entire, Giles never wanted to be a father figure; Buffy made him into hers, and he responded to that, but reluctantly, and he was ambigous about it even during those times they were getting along famously. But he refused to play father figure for Xander - Xander's dream in Restless, where he has Giles say "Spike is like a son to me", and himself respond "I was into that for a while, but I moved on" is a reflection of this - and even with Willow, who was arguably his favourite, and certainly the Scoobie whom he saw pre-Flooded as downright perfect, you had Giles taking on the fatherly mentor role only after all hell had broken loose and Willow had nearly ended the world, during those months between s6 and 7. With Dawn, he took on a parental role only at a point when Buffy actively refused and then took off from Sunnydale altogether. So, Giles not taking an interest in Faith during s3 is ic, but with disastrous consequences. Moreover, while you can make excuses regarding the Scoobies and Dawn - who were not his children - Faith was a Slayer, and thus his responsibility; Giles, as opposed to Wesley, was an experienced Watcher and a mature man. Judging by the way Faith responded to the Mayor and even to Gwendolyn Post, she'd have lept up any regard from Giles. It might have made a crucial difference later on.
(4a: This doesn't mean I don't have a lot of actions from Wesley I dislike, but one Watcher per meme is enough.)
5) Roj Blake: now using Avon for this meme would be cheating (due to being far too easy). With Blake, it's not going to Star One (Star One is a great episode I have some issues with, to wit, the sudden change of Cally's attitude because she had been endorsing the exact same thing fervently in Pressure Point), and no, it's not the paranoia that caused him to go through the fatal test routine in Blake (I love Blake the episode quite a lot and would have no other series finale). No, the action of Blake's that annoys me is that he laughs about Avon's "philosphical flee" remark directed at Vila at the end of Trial. Blake usually, even when threatening Doctors who won't treat his friends by cutting of their hands, isn't callous that way and treats Vila with more respect that Vila gets from anyone else on this show, Gan aside, but here it's a case of him joining Avon in a case of sniggering about Vila, and I don't like it, no sir, I don't.
The other meme everyone seems to have been doing in my absence:
You post a topic, list, category, whatever, in my comments section. (examples: "5 Compliments Londo Paid G'Kar", or "5 Times Kai Winn Sincerely Agreed With Sisko And/Or Kira"). Then, in a separate post, I'll post the answers to all your Top 5 ideas, according to me. Serious or fun! Then you post this offer in your own journal.
Fandoms I could do this in: all three Joss Whedon shows plus Astonishing X-Men, Babylon 5, Star Trek in all incarnations save Enterprise (because I only saw one proper season of same), Highlander: The Series, Star Wars (slight preference for the prequels), X-Men movieverse, Farscape, Blake's 7.
Firstly:
Name five times that a character you like/love did something you dislike/hate.
Although this is almost too easy, considering the majority of the characters I like. I mean, I could make a list of five murderers and warmongerers with attempted genocide as a sideline alone, I guess. So, let's make this a bit trickier by leaving the likes of Arvin Sloane, Londo Mollari, Servalan or Winn Adami out of it and stick to characters usually specializing in heroics. Also, I must exclude examples like Elizabeth Swann doing that thing she does in DMC, because while it is clearly wrong, it made me adore her, which isn't the purpose of the question.
1) Laura Roslin. Obviously the abortion thing, though not the decision itself so much as the way the damm episode let her arrive at it. If I could rewrite it, I'd still let Laura make that decision - because she needed to make a monumental mistake at that point - though I'd let it play a far larger role in why Baltar wins the elections later, on a similar scale to the New Caprica question. However, I would make it clear she is making that decision because she has trapped herself by playing the religious card and by relying so much on her religious support, not because of some assumption this would somehow enlarge the population - any seasoned pro-choice campaigner, as Laura is supposed to be, would know that what it will enlarge is the crippling and death rates of women getting illegal abortions instead. So: not only did I dislike Laura making the decision - though again, that I could have seen the storytelling sense of - but that her reasoning came across as partly stupid to me, and if there is one thing Laura Roslin should not be shown as, it's stupid.
2) The Ninth Doctor and Rose: in three words, The Long Game. You know, the complaints some fans have about Ten 'n Rose being too cliqueish in the early s28/2 eps? I had that problem with Nine and Rose in The Long Game in s27/1. I hated the episode and disliked their behaviour and them in it intensely, which is why I was really grateful Father's Day made me like them again. When Nine said to Adam "I take only the best - I take Rose" I wanted to puke. (And not just because even someone with a spotty Old School knowledge like myself knew it was factually wrong - some of the companions ended up with the Doctor by accident, or on a whim. Moreover, while I could see why the Doctor would return Adam to his place of origin after Adam's attempt to exploit time travel to make cash, leaving him with that device in his head wasn't funny or punishment fit for the crime, it was irresponsible and cruel. What rubbed salt into the wound for me was that we weren't supposed to think so. Big difference between the Cyberman two-parter in s28/2 and The Long Game: in the former, we're encouraged to sympathize and root for Mickey and feel with him when he feels excluded by the Doctor and Rose; moreover, neither of them actually intends to ostracize him, and they both get scenes alone with him, and one scene where the Doctor questions Rose about Mickey's background, that makes it clear they care. In the later, we're supposed to regard Adam as the boo-hiss unworthy companion wannabe who is only an obstacle to the glorious Doctor-Rose togetherness and laugh with the Doctor and Rose when they depart, and that completely fell flat for me. So, yeah. Hated their behaviour towards Adam, and I do normally like them both. A lot.
3) Connor: I was tempted to leave him out of this list because it's almost as easy as with Londo 'n Arvin to list Connor doing Wrong Things, from dumping his father in the ocean to accepting his daughter eating the occasional bedazzled human. Oh, yeah, and the human sacrifice in between. However, all these very wrong actions are written in a way that makes you understand where Connor comes from, so I didn't hate them in the sense I'm trying to answer the meme in - I thought they were great storytelling - with one exception. Which comes in Spinning the Bottle, and is one of these examples of a writer - even Joss - trading character integrity for a punchline. The scene between Thinking-herself-17 Cordy telling Connor to kill Angel for "a big reward" (i.e. sex) and him promptly chasing after Angel is just wrong. Now I can fanwank this, as Connor never even tries to pull a stake on Angel and so presumably just intended to trash him, but still, the whole father-son drama and Connor's extremely mixed feelings for his father which at this point are swinging towards the positive part of the spectrum before going into the negative again from Awakening onwards is so important to the character that this small scene feels both ooc and cheapening it.
(3a A similar example would be Vir at the end of Sic Transit Vir, i.e. JMS doing the same thing Joss did for the sake of a punchline. Vir has just found out his betrothed and the first girl with whom he got beyond basics as far as sexual experience is concerned was actively involved in torturing and killing Narns. This more or less ends the engagement, but as she is fond of him, she parts with a kiss. Whereupon Vir says "well, which relationship doesn't have its ups and downs" and smiles fondly after her. This would be Vir, the same Vir who angsts horribly and understandably about what Londo does, who feels so guilty about the Centauri war crimes that he risks all to save Narns, who changes his mind about planning Cartagia's assassination with Londo as soon as he hears Cartagia gloating about torturing G'Kar. Try as I might, I can't fit in this last scene with Lyndisti into my understanding of Vir.)
4) Rupert Giles: This is a somewhat deceased equine of mine, but I blame Giles far more than Wesley for Faith's development in s3 of BTVS. Wesley had about 24 hours as Faith's Watcher, arrived untried directly from the academy in the middle of a crisis, reacted according to training and thus helped botching things up, but it's hard to see how he could have reacted otherwise in these circumstances. Giles had several months. From Faith's arrival in Sunnydale to Wesley's arrival, he was Faith's Watcher in addition to Buffy's. And he always showed zero interest in her. (I tend to think this was deliberate writing, btw - there is a small scene in Homecoming where Giles, arriving in the Bronze, greets Willow and Xander by name but not Faith who is standing with them.) Now I don't think this is ooc for Giles. Looking at the show entire, Giles never wanted to be a father figure; Buffy made him into hers, and he responded to that, but reluctantly, and he was ambigous about it even during those times they were getting along famously. But he refused to play father figure for Xander - Xander's dream in Restless, where he has Giles say "Spike is like a son to me", and himself respond "I was into that for a while, but I moved on" is a reflection of this - and even with Willow, who was arguably his favourite, and certainly the Scoobie whom he saw pre-Flooded as downright perfect, you had Giles taking on the fatherly mentor role only after all hell had broken loose and Willow had nearly ended the world, during those months between s6 and 7. With Dawn, he took on a parental role only at a point when Buffy actively refused and then took off from Sunnydale altogether. So, Giles not taking an interest in Faith during s3 is ic, but with disastrous consequences. Moreover, while you can make excuses regarding the Scoobies and Dawn - who were not his children - Faith was a Slayer, and thus his responsibility; Giles, as opposed to Wesley, was an experienced Watcher and a mature man. Judging by the way Faith responded to the Mayor and even to Gwendolyn Post, she'd have lept up any regard from Giles. It might have made a crucial difference later on.
(4a: This doesn't mean I don't have a lot of actions from Wesley I dislike, but one Watcher per meme is enough.)
5) Roj Blake: now using Avon for this meme would be cheating (due to being far too easy). With Blake, it's not going to Star One (Star One is a great episode I have some issues with, to wit, the sudden change of Cally's attitude because she had been endorsing the exact same thing fervently in Pressure Point), and no, it's not the paranoia that caused him to go through the fatal test routine in Blake (I love Blake the episode quite a lot and would have no other series finale). No, the action of Blake's that annoys me is that he laughs about Avon's "philosphical flee" remark directed at Vila at the end of Trial. Blake usually, even when threatening Doctors who won't treat his friends by cutting of their hands, isn't callous that way and treats Vila with more respect that Vila gets from anyone else on this show, Gan aside, but here it's a case of him joining Avon in a case of sniggering about Vila, and I don't like it, no sir, I don't.
The other meme everyone seems to have been doing in my absence:
You post a topic, list, category, whatever, in my comments section. (examples: "5 Compliments Londo Paid G'Kar", or "5 Times Kai Winn Sincerely Agreed With Sisko And/Or Kira"). Then, in a separate post, I'll post the answers to all your Top 5 ideas, according to me. Serious or fun! Then you post this offer in your own journal.
Fandoms I could do this in: all three Joss Whedon shows plus Astonishing X-Men, Babylon 5, Star Trek in all incarnations save Enterprise (because I only saw one proper season of same), Highlander: The Series, Star Wars (slight preference for the prequels), X-Men movieverse, Farscape, Blake's 7.
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