Mission accomplished: Farscape, Babylon 5 and a bit of BTVS thoughts

[selenak]

Farscape: My guestage (TM Andrew of BTVS) has just left, and I can happily report success with the seduction. She's hooked. It was fascinating, watching someone else's impression first hand. She started out thinking John Crichton was clueless and too much all-American boy to be interesting, and wondered whether he'd ever get any depth. Changed her opinion around A Human Reaction regarding his dimensionality (though she called him likable before that, just not that interesting), and was impressed by Nerve/The Hidden Memory. Noticed at once that Crichton had kept the PK leather in Family Ties and started praising the actor for subtle performances. Around Saturday late afternoon and Fractures, she just wanted to hug him. ("He's so happy," she wailed as we see John running to meet Aeryn. Since I had included the Talyn John stuff, she knew what was to come.) When we had arrived at Into the Lion's Den: Wolf in Sheep's Clothing, she said this was beyond awesome.

Aeryn she liked from the start. Crais she thought was a dull villain, then in Family Ties she said "He's suddenly... interesting, you know?" and followed his intermittent appearances avidly, praising his ending. Scorpius held her interest pretty much from his first apperance. After Incubator, she said: "Is there any speculation in the fandom about what would have happened if he and Crichton had met in a different way, sans torture and chip? I mean, surely John would have empathized with the whole Scarren and science thing... they could have been friends..."
"Hm," I replied, poker-faced.
During the teaser for ItLD:WiSC, she said: "Is this a gift for slashers or what?"

Since I love Rygel, I was happy she took to him very soon, too, especially he was one of the reasons she hadn't tried Farscape before - the whole muppet aspect. She also thought he and Londo would get along famously, which is completely true.

Talking of Londo led to Babylon 5 longing, so after we had finished the Farscape seduction with watching Into the Lion's Den twice, and I had given her all the episodes she hadn't seen on CD Rom to watch at home, we used the remaining time for watching Babylon 5 episodes, starting with some from season 1 (Born to the Purple, Parliament of Dreams, Signs and Portents). Signs and Portents let to exclamations that G'kar was ever so lucky Morden picked Londo, and speculations as to why. (Londo held the better speech and had the more ambitious vision?) The second time G'kar is ever so lucky is of course in Coming of Shadows when Emperor Turhan dies before G'kar can assassinate him. If G'kar had gone through witlh the assassination, he would have started the new Narn/Centauri war, not Londo, and of course he never would have developed into the wise being he became.

Oh, and when we watched G'kar and Londo squabbling in front of the elevator, my pal said: "You know, you're right. They are married.

BTVS: Lastly, I only just started catching up on my friends list, and what do I see? andrastewhite has written an Andrew story. Not my Andrew story (i.e. the one she promised me), but a delightful one nonetheless, which I urge all Andrew lovers to read here.



Alfred Bester, Psi-Cop


Which Babylon 5 Villain are You?
brought to you by Quizilla

Since he tends to get the best lines of most of the episodes he's in, and is nicely three-dimensional, I'm happy. Especially since I'm not too bad considering I'm also:


You poor little dear. With a boss who seems rather
determined to do whatever he wishes regardless
of whether it is wise, your life is marked by
anxiety and strain. Take heart- you are
stronger than you realize, and your kindness
and gentleness of spirit will carry you
through.


Which Babylon 5 Attache/Second-in-Command Are You?
brought to you by Quizilla


Courtesy of hobsonphile.

Comments

[asta77.livejournal.com]

Glad tp hear of yet another Farscape convert. With every new fan acquired, I think it brings us that much closer to getting a movie or mini-series to wrap up some of the dangling storylines. I hate to think of John and Aeryn as a big ol' pile of dust. Then again, in my version of events, the last two minutes never happened and they lived happily ever after. ;)

I'm not so sure if John and Scorpy would have ever been friends. However, I think there was a (no matter how loathe they may have been to admit it) certain respect for each other - their intelligence and the quest each was on. As the storyline progressed, it terrified John to relize how much they were in fact alike. They may have wanted wormhole technology for different reasons, but each was consumed by that desire.

About G'kar

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

Morden didn't choose him - but he did get exactly what he wanted: freedom for his people, and the destruction of Centauri Prime.

Hm, so maybe Morden *did* choose him, and only pretended that he was choosing Londo. Or maybe Morden was really working with/for both of them, but pretended that he was only working for Londo. Maybe he figured G'kar would be easier to manipulate indirectly. So maybe G'kar wasn't lucky at all. Like Londo, he got exactly what he asked for. And paid for it.

You're right about the assasination attempt, of course. That really was a stroke of luck. On the other hand, if Turhan weren't dying, he wouldn't have come to B5 at all.

[themoonbar.livejournal.com]

Heh. It was you that I had that loooong John/Scorpius discussion with, right? I'm not sure about friends (it's so hard to predict these things) but there are certainly similarities between them.

Good to hear about the new convert. We're now that much closer to world FS domination. *g*

[kernezelda]

Good job on converting poor innocent friend to FS.

Also, quiz, I come up as both Cartagia and Susan Ivanova.

Whoooooo!! That's the kind of news that brightens my day!

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

Thanks for sharing. Hehe.

Did you mention to her there's a campaign...? ;-)

She is irreversibly contaminated.*g*

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Cartagia and Ivanova certainly is another interesting combination...

I mentioned it on the sidelines, yes.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

She's a big Firefly fan and now curses two networks instead of one.

Yes, that was me.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Not sure about friends in other circumstances, either, but then again I don't think they'd ever managed to remain indifferent to each other, and John does have the gift of befriending the oddest people. *g*

Re: About G'kar

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Freedom: not quite. When G'kar made his statement to Morden, he didn't include freedom because the Narn at that point were not only free but a floroushing, aggressive power. Throughout season 1, the Centauri had been presented as the weaker ones, forced to make concessions, and G'kar had no reason to assume this would change. But yes, the destruction of Centauri Prime did happen as requested.

Still, clever as Morden is, I don't think he's the infallible Machiavellian Uber-Villain pulling everybody's strings and planning everything. After all, for Morden to consider the destruction of Centauri Prime in season 1, he'd have to have known Londo would turn against him and the Shadows; otherwise CP is far too useful to allow to be destroyed. So I tend to believe he genuinenly wrote G'kar off as a candidate, but it's interesting to wonder why, and speculate over "what if's".

Well, Kemper said they aren't a pile of dust, but...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

...I don't think John and Aeryn will ever manage a happily ever after in my imagination, either. To tell you the truth, imo the tag scene of Twice Shy, and the ensuing J/A reconciliation is one of the few narrative mistakes Farscape made, because it was such a cheap cop-out of the genuine deep problems John and Aeryn had. I mean, this whole "Darling, I only pretended because the bad uncle was watching?" routine? Either massive self-delusion on John's part, or an insult to the viewer's intelligence.

John and Scorpius: I'm not sure about "friends" if the Aurora Chair and the chip had not happened, either, but then again, as I said to [Bad username or site: the moonbar @ livejournal.com], I don't think they'd have managed to stay indifferent to each other, and John does have a gift of befriending the oddest people.

Re: Well, Kemper said they aren't a pile of dust, but...

[neuralclone.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, no. I found the tag to "Twice Shy" a massive cheat. Not to mention, I felt that if I had been Aeryn I would have pantak-jabbed him for deceiving me in that way. What, in all that time on Earth, he couldn't find half an hour to ditch the comms and talk to Aeryn?

As for John and Scorpius - well Scorpius seems fascinated by John, and John seems to swing between seeing Scorpius as "Grasshopper" and seeing him as "Nosferatu". Under the surface they DO seem to be quite a lot alike...

Re: Well, Kemper said they aren't a pile of dust, but...

[asta77.livejournal.com]

I do have to agree about the retconning. John telling Aeryn it was all an act left me going "Huh?". But, I have witnessed far worse narrative tragedies on other shows. Plus, I knew they'd get back together sooner or later. Shame it couldn't have been handled better, but I can live with it.

On a sort of related note...I'm thrilled to have been found fellow Farscape fans (and good discussion) via your LJ. Admittadly, I'm much more adept at discussing the nuances of Buffy. I loyally watched Farscape and loved it, but never really got into the fandom or analysis of the show. You've definitely made me want to spend some time getting reaquainted qith the show. :)

Getting reaquainted with Farscape is always good.*g*

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Ironically, apart from hmpf who introduced me to Farscape to begin with, I found most other 'scapers via Buffy as well. And one day I shall write the Buffy Summers and John Crichton: Parallel Lives essay if no one else has done it by then.

If you want to get into Farscape fandom. . .

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

- or even if you just want to be counted, 'cause there's strength in numbers - go here: http://www.savefarscape.com. The campaign is still going strong, and there's a number of interesting projects we're working on at the moment (equipping public libraries with FS etc.). Also, it would be nice if we could reach the 5000 members mark by the anniversary of the cancellation (September 6). Follow the 'community' link to register. :-)

Ah yes, Firefly.

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

Well, they are apparently getting a movie, so that campaign seems to have worked, at least partly. But then, they have more than three times as many activists as we do. (Due to having been on a major network and to being connected to the name of Joss Whedon, I suppose. I certainly hope it has nothing to do with a lack of quality on the part of Farscape in the eyes of the audience!)

Of course, we're not done yet. It's only a matter of time - we'll succeed, too. After all, the media are still interested in us (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/artsentertainment/2001492033_farscape13.html), and someone somewhere *has* to be aware that we're a potential market waiting for a product...

I'm very happy I could convert you!

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

You're turning into a great 'multiplicator'. ;-)

>I found most other 'scapers via Buffy

Doesn't surprise me. The two shows are highly compatible. It's a shame that only a fraction of the huge Buffy fandom also knows (or is interested in) Farscape, though. One would think that a larger portion of people would notice the similarities in tone and theme of these shows.

Depends on the circumstances.

[alara-r.livejournal.com]

John fell in love with a Peacekeeper hardass who beat the crap out of him the first time he met her, made friends with a crazed beast who kept going wild and trying to kill him, and tried his best to reach out to the guy who was psychotically obsessed with killing him. Then the Aurora Chair happened, and John got hard.

Had the Aurora Chair never happened John and Scorpius could *very* easily have been friends, but the best way to get them to that point would be for Scorpius to fall from power and end up on Moya. Oh, like that's hard. :-) It's *possible*, though not plausible, to imagine other circumstances where they could have been friends. The UR where John is the head of Peacekeeper wormhole research and Sikozu is a Scarran spy might have started with John ending up in circumstances where he was working closely with Scorpius, and I think without the Aurora Chair and the chip between them there's little reason they *wouldn't* have been friends. John can get over "you're ugly" and Scorpius is used to it; both would be tolerated outcasts in the Peacekeepers; both would have information and life experiences of value to the other.

Of course I can't see them ever making friends with the Chair in their history. But I think John could possibly have developed a lot more tolerance for Scorpius than he ended up doing, with somewhat different circumstances.

The Chicago Tribune is a wide-read paper...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

...which is good. Anyway, we love Farscape "beyond hope", don't we?

Re: If you want to get into Farscape fandom. . .

[asta77.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link. I'll definitely check it out. Unfortunately, though I watched Farscape from the beginning, I didn't find friends who watched until its last season so I didn't get involved in fandom as much as I liked. Plus, I found it difficult to find many decent boards to discuss the show. Maybe it's me, but Buffy fandom seemed easier to get into.

Oh, I'd love to see an essay, discussion, or whatever regarding the parallels between the two shows. I often wondered if the creative staffs of Buffy (to a lesser extent Angel) and Farscape were in cahoots. Tortured love affairs? Mind controlling chips? Visions? Villians redeeming themselves?

Farscape fandom...

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

is a very friendly and highly effective fandom, IMO. So, definitely check out SaveFarscape.com and its forums, the Frell Me Dead forums. You could also check out Kansas, another very nice, though maybe a bit too shippy board: http://forums.scaperoute.com/kansas/index.php
Don't try Scifi's Farscape board, though. It's infested by trolls.

>Thanks for the link. I'll definitely check it out. Unfortunately, though I watched Farscape from the beginning, I didn't find friends who watched until its last season so I didn't get involved in fandom as much as I liked. Plus, I found it difficult to find many decent boards to discuss the show. Maybe it's me, but Buffy fandom seemed easier to get into.

Well, Buffy fandom is much *larger*. Almost everybody seems to be a Buffy fan nowadays. ;-) (I'm not. I like the show very much, but that extra spark that makes me obsessed with some things just isn't there. I can't identify with the characters that well...) So, of course it is easier to find Buffy boards, Buffy websites etc. But Farscape fandom is nice, once you've found the right places. SaveFarscape.com certainly is one of central sites - maybe, probably, *the* site to enter the fandom, though Kansas has more of a 'family' feel.
Plus, the fandom is *very* resourceful - it amazes even me, sometimes, and I've been active in it for years!

I do have the impression that Farscape fandom is slightly less 'intellectual' than Buffy fandom, though. But I'm not sure whether that is due to the relative smallness of the fandom (fewer people --> fewer intellectually inclined people), or due to the less multi-layered nature of the show. Maybe it's a bit of both. Farscape is complex in its own way - it's highly believable and fascinating on a psychological/emotional level, and there *are* all those SF and fantasy references to discover - but I think that Joss Whedon has more of an intellectual approach to writing television. He wants the viewer to decipher his shows and, maybe, even to learn something. Kemper and co. just want to move, shock and amaze; they don't want to deliver a message. (Well, okay, sometimes they do, but it's rather rare.)

>Oh, I'd love to see an essay, discussion, or whatever regarding the parallels between the two shows.

The parallels are rather obvious. I'm more interested in the differences. I've had that discussion with Selena at one time... I think my main point, if I remember correctly, was that Farscape's universe is a lot more nihilistic than Buffy's. In Buffy's universe the lines between good and evil may become blurred, but there is never much doubt that there *are* such things as good and evil. In the FS universe, there are no metaphysical instances of good and evil, and in the course of the show the heroes come to resemble their antagonists so much that one wonders if there even *is* such a thing as 'doing the right thing' anymore. Also, Buffy has some sense of purpose, a destiny, whereas John and co. have to *make* their own purpose, so to speak. So, all in all, and even considering the darkness of the later seasons of Buffy, I'd say that Buffy (as a show) has a much more positive outlook on life than Farscape.

>I often wondered if the creative staffs of Buffy (to a lesser extent Angel) and Farscape were in cahoots. Tortured love affairs? Mind controlling chips? Visions? Villians redeeming themselves?

Well, villains redeeming themselves is an old theme of course, but the mind controlling chip had me wondering... seemed to be the thing to have in American genre shows of the late nineties/early whatevery-you-call-its! *g*

But we always have hope.

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

'Hope, D'Argo. You're gonna see your son. I'm gonna go home. Hope. I got hope, or I got nothing.'

Re: Farscape fandom...

[asta77.livejournal.com]

I do have the impression that Farscape fandom is slightly less 'intellectual' than Buffy fandom...Farscape is complex in its own way - it's highly believable and fascinating on a psychological/emotional level, and there *are* all those SF and fantasy references to discover - but I think that Joss Whedon has more of an intellectual approach to writing television. He wants the viewer to decipher his shows and, maybe, even to learn something. Kemper and co. just want to move, shock and amaze...

I think you make a good point. I don't think Kemper and Co set out to confuzzle the audiance like Joss and Co do. Joss leaves the door open for multiple interpretations of the same scene. For the most part, when I watched Farscape I found it all pretty clear cut. That's not a bad thing. Honestly, as much as I love Buffy and some of the fascinating analysis and discussion I've seen regarding it sometimes it becomes too intellectual. On several occassions I've had to release my inner Shatner and scream "It's just a TV show people!". A great one, but still a TV show.

I have to say both shows shared the ability, or should I say genius, to plant the seeds of story arcs sometimes a season or more in advance. At least Buffy got to resolve it's arc, will we ever find out who the Hell those aliens were that were introduced in the Farscape finale?