Lost 4.07 Ji Yeon, and multifandom recs

[selenak]

Doylist: I guess the "be caught drunk driving, get yourself written of this show" rule holds.

Watsonian: Wahhhh. You know, if Sun had been with anyone but Hurley in that final flash forward, I would hold out hope that Jin isn't truly dead but back on the island, but Hurley is a fellow Oceanic 6 insider, and besides, he's Hurley. She wouldn't fake grief when with Hurley.

I didn't exactly guess the flashback for Jin/flashforward for Sun gimmick from the start, but I knew something was up with Jin; loving The Sixth Sense and The Others (the other Others!) as I do, I thought he would turn out to be a ghost, but I guess no supernatural things are happening off the island. Anyway, in retrospect, there are a lot of clues this was pre-Island Jin, mostly Jin suddenly exuding a threatening vibe AND of course the big, big cell phone.

Sun and Jin on the island do that thing where they're the most heartbreaking couple around again (sorry Des/Penny fans, they're heartbreaking, too, but I just love my Koreans a little bit more), and great choice of the script to give Bernard the scene with Jin, bonding over being married and the right thing to do.

The karma talk made me wonder both in regards to Locke - and that killing Naomi is brought up again makes me hopeful the writers will deal with the consequences of what making this step meant for him, I don't just mean outward consequences but inward ones - and that other man who killed and gets reintroduced this episode, Michael. Of course, Jin himself is guilty of past violence due to Mr. Paik using him as a thug pre-island. Jin and Michael were blackmailed via someone they loved, but this still doesn't remove all culpability from them; Locke did it because of a vision. If Michael's karmic payback appears to be that the goal for which he sold out his friends and murdered Ana Lucia - saving his son, and then getting the both of them away from the island - is denied, and instead he ends up endlessly circling the island as Ben's lackey, and Jin's that he is going to die at some point in the future (though no, I don't think in the next episode already), never having the chance to live with Sun and their daughter in happiness and peace together, then if I have to guess what waits for Locke is that somehow, he will be forced to leave the island for good, unable to ever return, and end up in that coffin. I hope not, but it looks increasingly more likely.

On the freighter: the Michael revelation was expected, but the Captain being so forthcoming to Sayid and Desmond was not. And a good parallel to Ben being unexpectedly forthcoming with Locke in the previous episode. In both cases, of course, chances are that what is said is only a part of the truth and significant other parts are left out. For example, I'm pretty sure Ben did provide the black box - after all, he had access to the real thing on the island - but don't think he provided the dead bodies. (It can't be the ones from the big massacre; those were still there in the mass grave when he showed them to Locke just before he shot him.) Also, Charles Widmore was looking for the island long before the Oceanic flight ever crashed there (as evidenced by him buying that old log at the auction Desmond saw him at, and of course by him organizing that boat race). I'm still banking on him wanting to exploit both the healing and the time distortion factor. And furthermore, allow me to speculate those 300-something dead bodies will turn out to be due to him rather than Ben, because Sayid working for Ben in the future (another horrid karmic consequence?) would indicate he regards Mr. Linus as the (very slightly) lesser of two evils.

The suicide of the female boatwoman was an economic and very effective way to show just how stir-crazy the crew must be, and how ruthless the Captain is.

Back to the island: Juliet thankfully had no scenes with Jack and thus was her ruthless competent self instead of a weepy damsel. See, that's how I like her! More Juliet and Sun scenes, please, as in last season's episode, they come across as two strong female characters who can both fight and bond believably when with each other.

Oceanic Six: we now have Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun. My guess is Aaron as a baby does not count as one of them, but the question is whether Dead Body In Coffin (whether or not it's Locke) does or whether Dead Body and Last Oceanic Six Person are two different people.

Lastly: the fact that Mr. Paik isn't round in Sun's flash forward seems to indicate she's not living from his money, which makes me happy. (And removes any blackmail options for the future.) Go Sun!


Two non-Lost fanfic recs:

Alias: What they don't talk about: I always love it when someone writes Jack 'n Arvin backstory. And I love the two of them and their twisted, entangled relationship, naturally.

Doctor Who: Pattern Recognition is another great glimpse at Donna and the Doctor. Bring on season 4!

Comments

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Doylist: I guess the "be caught drunk driving, get yourself written of this show" rule holds.

I have heard that the episode was actually already filmed when DDK got his DUI, but it is a curse that seems to hold, isn't it? At least he might be around for a while longer, given that it wasn't at all clear to me whether he died on the island, or off the island. Or, really, if he died at all, because while I agree that Sun wouldn't pretend in front of Hurley, we know that they are all lying about what happened to the other survivors - and if Sun thinks she will never see Jin again, and that Ji Yeon will never know her father, she'd be mourning nonetheless. I think at least one of the people whose situation is called into question in the Flashforwards is still alive, and between Claire and Jin, I'd say Jin has more story left to tell.

Jin and Sun are very adorable, as is Bernhard. Did the actor actually play Holland Manners? He always seemed so familiar.

The karma talk made me wonder both in regards to Locke - and that killing Naomi is brought up again makes me hopeful the writers will deal with the consequences of what making this step meant for him, I don't just mean outward consequences but inward ones - and that other man who killed and gets reintroduced this episode, Michael.

This is somewhat random, but I did notice that Locke was frequently shown with blood on his hands over the last few episodes, butchering chicken and rabbits, and I was wondering if that was a metaphor for him killing Naomi, or possibly for him becoming responsible for more deaths because the freighter people won't take Naomi's death in a kind way.

I do not think he will leave the island, however, for one specific reason: there are two more seasons left, I don't think they will let their two heftiest actors get to the mainland just now (and I really think we'll still get plot on the island, since it is infinitely more interesting than seeing Jack et al trying to get back).

On the freighter: the Michael revelation was expected, but the Captain being so forthcoming to Sayid and Desmond was not.

What I like about the whole situation with Ben and the Captain is that we know both are lying but not to what extend. I agree with you that the wreck victims have most likely been provided by Widmore or someone else - why would Ben do this, after all? Even if people continued searching for the plane, they couldn't get to the island.
Also, before I totally get lost (duh) in my notes, does Abbadon, the shifty "lawyer" who visited Hurley and hired Naomi work with/for Widmore, or is he an independent third party? If he works for Widmore, they apparently won't find what they were looking for on the island, or he wouldn't have to ask Hurley whether anyone is still alive.

The suicide of the female boatwoman was an economic and very effective way to show just how stir-crazy the crew must be, and how ruthless the Captain is.

Very Marley with the chains, no?

Back to the island: Juliet thankfully had no scenes with Jack and thus was her ruthless competent self instead of a weepy damsel.

Fortunately.

Oceanic Six: we now have Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun. My guess is Aaron as a baby does not count as one of them, but the question is whether Dead Body In Coffin (whether or not it's Locke) does or whether Dead Body and Last Oceanic Six Person are two different people.

If the promos don't lie - and when did they ever do that? - we've seen all of the Oceanic Six, so the last one has to be either Jin, Aaron, or, my personal guess, Michael. (Of course, Michael is my favourite candidate for the inhabitant of the coffin as well, so...)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

At least he might be around for a while longer, given that it wasn't at all clear to me whether he died on the island, or off the island.

By now, I've read reviews that say the date given on his tombstone is the date of the plane crash. So his real death definitely must have happened on the island, otherwise they wouldn't have to cover it up by claiming he died in the crash.

Unless....

if Sun thinks she will never see Jin again, and that Ji Yeon will never know her father, she'd be mourning nonetheless.

That is true, and I could see Jin insisting that Sun leaves in order to save her life, even if that meant they could never see each other again.

I do not think he will leave the island, however, for one specific reason: there are two more seasons left, I don't think they will let their two heftiest actors get to the mainland just now (and I really think we'll still get plot on the island, since it is infinitely more interesting than seeing Jack et al trying to get back).

Oh, I agree that they won't get rid of Terry O'Quinn any time soon, any more than of Michael Emerson, for this reason. However, being forced the leave the island is the worst thing that could happen to Locke right now, and they tend to go for "worst thing" on this show. Doesn't mean in island time he - or Ben - will leave the island this season - probably not before the last third of the last season.

Also, before I totally get lost (duh) in my notes, does Abbadon, the shifty "lawyer" who visited Hurley and hired Naomi work with/for Widmore, or is he an independent third party? If he works for Widmore, they apparently won't find what they were looking for on the island, or he wouldn't have to ask Hurley whether anyone is still alive.

Good point, and given that Abbadon hired Naomi, I'm pretty sure he has to work for Widmore. I guess the Oceanic Six didn't just agree on claiming everyone else is dead but helped engineering a big catastrophe that removed the island from everyone's radar.

If the promos don't lie - and when did they ever do that? - we've seen all of the Oceanic Six, so the last one has to be either Jin, Aaron, or, my personal guess, Michael.

My money is on Michael, because they gave us that scene of Ana Lucia's former partner asking after her and Hurley lying point blank about having ever met her. Even in my review then, I speculated he might be covering for Michael because that is the most plausible reason for lying about how Ana Lucia died I could think of. BUT if Hurley hadn't seen Michael again after season 2, he would have no reason to cover for him - I mean, in addition to Ana Lucia, Michael killed his (Hurley's) girlfriend Libby, and if that is the last thing Hurley remembers of him... Well.

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

Doesn't mean in island time he - or Ben - will leave the island this season - probably not before the last third of the last season.

Yeah, exactly. What I'm trying to figure out is will this season and the next two take place over the course of only a few weeks or so, or will the "rescue" occur in this season? I think it would be interesting if in the end, we had the flashforwards of them returning to the island being intercut with the past scenes of them leaving the island, concurrently. Though that might be too confusing, from a storytelling perspective.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I think they could pull it off, given the audience is used now to paying attention to different timelines. And remember how effective it is when at the end of The Godfather II, we get that brief flashback to the Corleone family, all alive and well and happy together, when Michael announces he'll join the military, and Fredo defends him, and then we cut to Michael sitting there frozen and alone after he had Fredo killed?

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

Sun/Jin is such an awesome couple. I cried at the end. At least they got to spread their awesome-beautiful genes. ;-)

And I just realized - I've been looking at the flashforwards as an alternate future. If they're the real future, the whole thing becomes a lot more troubling.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Consider yourself troubled. Damon Lindelof explicitly said this IS the future. He compared with Heroes, saying that in H. the entire concept of the show allows them to show alternate futures which the heroes must then work to prevent, but they can't do this on Lost, it would mean not to play fair with the audience. As with the Babylon 5 flashforwards, this is the real, unavoidable future.

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

Aw, drat. *grin* Well, being forewarned is something, I guess.

[mermaidrain.livejournal.com]

I assume that Sun is living off $ she got from the crash as one of the "Oceanic Six" instead of from her dad. At least that was the vibe I was getting last night.