fannish5: What are five things you never thought you'd see in canon?

[selenak]

1) Male pregnancy. Naturally, it was Farscape that did it. (Other shows, too, I'm told, but I'm talking about my own fandoms here.) In The Peacekeeper Wars, Rygel did the honors for John and Aeryn for a while. No matter how much I say, not entirely joking, that Rygel/John are my Farscape OTP, I never expected Rygel to get pregnant with John's child. Oh, Farscape. Your crazy was like no one else's. ♥

2) Buffy and Spike having sex in BTVS. Qualification: I never thought I'd see this until the near end of s5, when I started to suspect the show might actually go there. Until then, I thought it would remain UST, mostly because of the "second vampire/Slayer affair" problem and of course the soulless vampire problem. This, btw, does not mean I was for or against the 'ship, I just thought it would not happen. Incidentally, the act itself was another thing that was so completely fannish that I never thought I'd see it played out on screen this way - sex that literally brought the house down.

3) Alias: Sydney Bristow sincerely, without feigning or without being pressured by someone else, and without an "impending death" factor, tells Arvin Sloane "I believe you were trying to do the right thing". (And the narrative supports this interpreation of events.) A, season 4 finale with your moment of grace, how much better an ending you would have been for the show. *mourns* Anyway, the actual ending in s5 is something that I always knew was a possibility, though I hoped for something else; whereas that s4 moment was something I hadn't thought possible, simply because Sydney offering that kind of trust to Sloane again signalled a measure of forgiveness which, short of dying for the cause, I could not imagine he'd ever get from her. The s4 storyline and the events of the s4 finale did make it plausible without negating Sloane's earlier crimes.

4) Angel: vampire pregnancy. As both most versions of the myth and s2 of BTVS told us this was not possible. (Otoh, I had predicted that Darla was the one member of the Fanged Four I could actually see efficiently committing suicide - as opposed to certain male members of the line who both just indulged in the dramatics - and that if she died again, she would this way, not by being staked by Angel or some one else. I just had never imagined the cause of her deciding to stake herself.) As Joss and Tim actually going there resulted in my other favourite AtS character, I am very happy they did, but I still remember that moment from the s3 premiere and my what the hell? exclamation.

5) Harry Potter: OMG She Killed Hedwig! Seriously. I predicted some of the deaths in DH; others, like Lupin & Tonks, were surprising, but I can't claim they fall in the "I thought I'd never see this in HP canon" category. Offing Harry's beloved owl in the opening chapter, otoh, was definitely something I never thought JKR would do - or killing Hedwig at all. Hardcore, man. I still have no idea how they're going that bill the film version as something for the children, more because of the later torture and slaughter, of course, but still. Hedwig. Never thought it would happen.


Discarded possibilities: . Doctor Who - "are you asking me out on a date?" and the Doctor basically proposing to the Master an episode later. Discarded because on DW, sooner or later, you'll see everything - it comes with the whole 40 years of canon and multiple authors and no end in sight thing - , and so I can't say I really thought I'd never see it. Heroes - Nathan's way of (not) coping with the presumed death of his brother including all those photos of Peter. In addition to the whole living in his apartment, wearing his coat and growing The Beard Of Gloom. Discarded because on Heroes, there is no limit of the Petrelli sibling dysfunctional. I might have been a bit surprised that Nathan actually had a Peter shrine after joking with others about the possibility a week earlier, but I can't say I sincerely thought we'd never see it. If the previouslies to the volume 3 opener include a certain deleted scene, I shall only be faintly surprised.

Comments

[elisi]

It occurs to me that this is a meme that cannot be done for Torchwood...

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't know if I can apply it to Marvel Comics, either.

If you think they might go there, they probably have. . .

Great answers, though!

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Though people quibble about the definition of canon. . .that thing that happened in the last issue of the Buffy comic? I never expected that, not to say I disapprove.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Verily. which is why I never even tried. *g* Whatever they did in Torchwood, I can't say I ever thought "no, they wouldn't go there..."

(Although, you know, Captain John and his poodle is an old hat. DW went there first, with Gridlock. Brannigan/Valerie OTP! They had offspring, too. And I'm convinced Hame is just the latest in a long line of sidekicks Jack had relations with...)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

So true. You must exclude Marvel in your replies!

[ladyaeryn.livejournal.com]

LOL. Early on I decided I wouldn't rule out anything as too bizarre for Farscape. Heck, in my second ep ever (Out Of Their Minds) we had John-in-Aeryn gleefully jiggling and fondling him-/herself. ;) With things like that, Scorpy in a Hawaiian shirt, Crais in pink high heels, and pretty much everything in "Won't Get Fooled Again" and "John Quixote," canon!mpreg is actually pretty tame for Farscape! Like you say: FS did the crazy like no one else. ♥

Actually, there was one thing even Farscape managed to surprise me with: "Revenging Angel." But again, if any show would come up with a canon premise to turn its characters into cartoons, it'd be them. ;)

Agreed on Hedwig. I was prepared for pretty much anyone to die in DH but that one; I felt like I'd been karate-kicked in the face. It was the only death in DH I shed a tear for, largely because it was so unexpected.

Good meme... I may tackle this myself.

[sionnain.livejournal.com]

That thing with Hedwig in DH made me SOB.

[elisi]

DW went there first, with Gridlock.
Well the interspecies thing started way back in 'The Doctor Dances:

DOCTOR: Relax, he's a 51st century guy. He's just a bit more flexible when it comes to dancing.
ROSE: How flexible?
DOCTOR: Well, by his time, you lot have spread out across half the galaxy.
ROSE: Meaning?
DOCTOR [grinning]: So many species, so little time...
ROSE: What, that's what we do when we get out there? That's our mission? We seek new life, and... and...
DOCTOR: Dance.

I do love this 'verse very much! :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Ah, but Won't Fooled Again took place in John's head, and so it doesn't count in the same way actual events do.*g* But I know what you mean. Awww, Farscape crazy, I love you so much!

(When a month ago someone threw up memorably in a Torchwood episode, I had nostalgic Farscape flashbacks. Farscape: the only show that managed to condition its viewers to feel nostalgic when they watch on screen barfing!)

Hedwig: Karate-kicked in the face is an excellent description for how it felt. But I approve, you know. I spent the rest of the book feeling that really no one was safe...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

WOULD DOOM APPROVE OF YOUR SOFTNESS?!?

In other words: me, too.

[sionnain.livejournal.com]

DOOM ALSO LIKED THE SNOWY OWL. DOOM DISAPPROVES OF JKR'S SUCKER-PUNCH OWL DEATH.

:D

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

I dunno, Torchwood surprised me rather a lot this season... :)

[elisi]

Ever since the stopwatch conversation I've been prepared for *anything*! :)

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Doom needs to read Harry Potter and the Poky Motoring Show, a slightly epic fancomic. (http://culf.livejournal.com/20331.html#cutid1) - it helps if he is familiar with the TV show Top Gear.

Lots of Deathly Hallows spoilers!

[sionnain.livejournal.com]

DOOM is not, but he shall SEE if it makes SENSE. :)

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Farscape: the only show that managed to condition its viewers to feel nostalgic when they watch on screen barfing!

Hee! It's funny because it's TRUE :)

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

Red Dwarf did canon mpreg in 1988. (Though much of it happened in-between seasons.)

[meganinhiding.livejournal.com]

Hmm, based on some previous comments of yours I'm a little suprised that Tigh turning out to be a cylon didn't get an honorable mention.

[crossoverman.livejournal.com]

It's canon until he writes the movie, apparently :-)

[joonscribble.livejournal.com]

*butting in*

With Torchwood, I just follow what John Barrowman sang in the extras: "Anything goes."

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

I might have been a bit surprised that Nathan actually had a Peter shrine after joking with others about the possibility a week earlier, but I can't say I sincerely thought we'd never see it.

I saw that and my jaw dropped. I was like, "OK, Tim, we were joking. Joking! But thanks, anyway." *G*

If the previouslies to the volume 3 opener include a certain deleted scene, I shall only be faintly surprised.

Which one are you referring to? The one where Adrian goes in for the kiss? :D

And cadesama and I were debating the possibility of them putting Peter/Elle and West/Claire side by side, just for the visual...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Since to this day I never watched it, I couldn't list it. (See qualification above.) I think someone said there was an Enterprise episode which did mpreg, too, but that, too, I haven't watched (I just saw some early s1 episodes and the fourth season of ENT). Whereas with Farscape, I regard myself as a fully qualified fan.*g*

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Which one are you referring to? The one where Adrian goes in for the kiss? :D

Naturally!

As West seems to be a goner - can't say I'm grieved - I think the second one is out, though.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

That would fall more under "I thought it was extremely unlikely, because of the age factor and the related can of worms it opens" (can the Cylons clone existing humans, if so, why haven't they done this to all important humans instead of going through the bother of having Six seduce Baltar to begin with, if there isn't cloning and there never was a human Saul Tigh, how come he existed before the Cylons could create human-looking Cylons, etc.). The only character I'm absolutely 100% sure is not a Cylon is Baltar, and I'm about 95% sure with Roslin as well, for similar reasons - it would make their entire storyline redundant. So if either of them had turned out to be a Cylon, this definitely would have made the list!

[adn-heming.livejournal.com]

Hedwig. Never thought it would happen.

Am still slightly stunned over it to this day. No, I'm not being over melodramatic. I *loved* that owl.

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

I heartily recommend Red Dwarf. It's possibly the best show without any women in it (until Holly's head sex-change and later Chloë Annett's addition to the cast, and obv. discounting numerous wonderful guest stars) out there.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I think no one expected that - not a single prediction included The Owl That Died...

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

Hearing the music people talk about it on the commentary was hilarious. They (both women) were really enjoying it. "Very Kennedy-esque..." Hee hee hee.

Yeah, weighing the benefits of no West vs. delicious subtext, I'll take West being gone. As long as Elle stays. :D

[cadesama.livejournal.com]

The "they really went there?!" moment on Angel for me is still Justine's bucket. Oh, S4.

In addition to the whole living in his apartment, wearing his coat and growing The Beard Of Gloom. Discarded because on Heroes, there is no limit of the Petrelli sibling dysfunctional.

Even since we scarily predicted nearly every point of the 0.07% post-death conversation between Peter and Nathan, I don't think I've thought anything would be impossible. I look forward to new, and frightening possibilities for their co-dependency to be demonstrated. Although, aside from killing us all with the cuteness of little!Peter and teenage!Nathan practicing a speech for him (maybe in a webisode? come on, guys!) I'm tapped for ideas of what more they could do. Really.

[ladyaeryn.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll partially concede that aspect of WGFA. ;)

Farscape: the only show that managed to condition its viewers to feel nostalgic when they watch on screen barfing!)

*spits out Coke*

Okay, I am officially stealing that line. Because it's so true. God, I miss that show. Drives me nuts I haven't been able to afford the season 3 or 4 DVDs.

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

Oh, damn it, I've now been badly spoiled for Battlestar Galactica. I'm still stuck in season three where Sky cut off Virgin Media subscribers, but haven't lost hope of catching up somewhere.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

They could... let Peter come to the conclusion he's been freaked out one too many times with Nathan almost dying right in front of him, that there is no way he'll be able to stomach immortality alone, and that thus, the solution is to make Nathan immortal, too? Leading to scary alliances and experiments? I mean, this is Peter Petrelli we're talking about.

S4 of Angel is so my favourite season. Why didn't you think they'd go there with Justine's bucket? Because Wesley was a human character (i.e. no supernatural excuse for ruthlessness and torturing people)?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Pfff. cadesama and self have talked about the Kennedyequeness during the post Parasite hiatus; these composer ladies are late arrivers! (Also, does that mean we'll have to comment on screen depictions of JFK and RFK with "they're Irish"?)

I don't think we have to fear for Elle. Clearly, producers and writers love the character and the actress, and we left her mid-build up of character arc, so she'll definitely stay.

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

Doesn't have quite the same ring as, "They're Italian," does it? xD I wonder if Dennis Hammer knew he'd be coining a euphemism when he said that. Though the writers seem to be taking hints from history, b/c I watched a Kennedy documentary where it said that Bobby went around wearing John's clothes after his brother was shot.

I don't worry about Elle, in terms of KB and Kring wanting her to stay, but I am a little worried re: contract and timing issues.

[cadesama.livejournal.com]

that there is no way he'll be able to stomach immortality alone

Well, he won't exactly be alone. He'll have Claire and Adam (and Hiro, sort of). He just won't have the most important person for him.

the solution is to make Nathan immortal, too? Leading to scary alliances and experiments? I mean, this is Peter Petrelli we're talking about.

Actually... yeah. That seems fairly possible. I also wouldn't be shocked to see Peter investigating into his communication with Charles to see if that would be an avenue to keep in contact with Nathan after he's dead. A good talking to from Hiro about time traveling to keep people from dying is probably also in order for him.

S4 of Angel is so my favourite season. Why didn't you think they'd go there with Justine's bucket? Because Wesley was a human character (i.e. no supernatural excuse for ruthlessness and torturing people)?

S4 is my favorite too! In a lot of ways because it was so surprising to me. Partially, I was suprised because Justine was human, but also just because it was one thing that I never could have predicted between seasons. If I had read a fic where Wes kept Justine locked up in his closet, I probably would have laughed at it being over the top and hit the back button. It was just such an important moment for defining how dark S4 would get that, without any knowledge of the tone they were going to go for, I couldn't have predicted it.