Oh, British TV!

[selenak]

So there'll be a new Blake's 7 , hm? Well now. As someone who likes the current Battlestar Galactica, I don't have a problem with a "re-imagining" and think this is a better solution than trying for a sequel. (Sequels for B7 are a little more impossible than for other shows anyway.) Of course, the result could be terrible, mediocre or splendid: nobody can know just yet.

In other British tv nows, I hear Being Human (aka the one about the Werewolf, the Vampire and the Ghost) has been ordered for a full season. Which is great news as the pilot was rather adorable and very promising.

A few notes while listening to the audio commentaries for The Green Death and The Keeper of Traken:



Green Death (which was one of the first Third Doctor stories I saw, eons ago, but I only got around to exploring the dvd extras this last week):

Katy Manning and Barry Letts, commenting on the ongoing Metabilis III gag in the Pertwee era: "Yes, every time he wants to go there, something terrible happens, right?" "Definitely. The next time he goes there, he turns into Tom Baker."

They heard about Roger Delgado's death during the filming of The Green Death. "The sweetest man." (Letts makes the comparison to Boris Karloff, who also specialized in villains and was incredibly nice in real life; Jon Pertwee in the SFX interview reprinted for the special edition calls Delgado "incredibly gentle" and names his death as one of the reasons that made him decide to leave.)

Everyone is quite proud DW had this story devoted to environmental issues years before it became fashionable, and quite depressed the situation for the environment currently looks more dire than ever.

They also love the scene where the Doctor disguises himself first as the milkman and then as the cleaning woman, reminscencing about Jon Pertwee as a character actor and his comic timing.

Pointing out that Jo is barely out of school in Terror of the Autons, Katy Manning sees her development on the show as a coming of age story.

About that Jo/Doctor matter: the boys say the Doctor was "half in love with her", but not in "that way". Everyone feels very sorry for the Doctor in this story anyway, though they chuckle when he drags Cliff Jones away instead of leaving him in front of the fireplace with Jo. Katy Manning audibly cries when it comes to the farewell scene. Aww.

The pseudo-documentary on the dvd about those mysterious goings-on in Wales in the 70s is priceless, culminating with the revelation that Stevens and BOSS, far from being dead, are currently running the BBC.

Keeper of Traken

Everyone is fanboying (and fangirling, in Sarah Sutton's case) Kassia. Was very amused at the actors chiding the characters for the fact Tremas and Nyssa don't comment on her demise at all during the last episode.

The general consensus on Tom Baker seems to be "brilliant actor, really scary in person". Johnny Byrne thinks that's why he made a convincing alien.

Anthony Ainley reports that he wasn't told anything about the Master's backstory other than "most evil Time Lord"; he wanted to watch some of the Delgado episodes as preparation but John Nathan Turner didn't provide them. Many years later, when the BBC finally repeated some Third Doctor serials, he did see Roger Delgado as the Master on tv, "and only then did I realise that the Master actually had a soft spot for the Doctor the size of Wolverhampton". To which I say, well, not that Delgado's performance doesn't make that obvious, but what did you think you were playing in Castrovalva?

John Nathan Turner is responsible for all the chuckling. He liked it when Geoffrey Beevers did it and told Ainley to use it as often as possible. No comment.

Johnny Byrne loved writing the introduction Doctor and Adric scene and has a mini-rant about how the TARDIS was overcrowded from this point onwards through the Five era and how just one companion was the way to go. Considering one of the more common complaints about New Who is that with the exception of two or three episodes per season (Jack era in s1, Mickey in s2, Jack again at the end of s3), we only have one companion on the TARDIS, this amused me to no end.

He also never forgave the production team for destroying Traken in the next story, which they had not told him they'd do. 'Twas his planet.


Lastly, a few Doctor Who fanfic recs. I had a craving for Academy era fanfic, and here are a few of those, featuring the Doctor, the Master and the Rani as children and youths:

Childhood Ends

Roses in December

Experimental Subjects

Things to do on Gallifrey when you're bored

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_medley_/]

To which I say, well, not that Delgado's performance doesn't make that obvious, but what did you think you were playing in Castrovalva?

*dies* So. True.

Also, yay and thank you for Academy-era fic recs!

Oh, man, the *comments*.

[alara-r.livejournal.com]

I made the mistake of reading the comments on that Blake's 7 remake thread.

"They took a great show {Battlestar} and made it Bimbos in Space!"

Ah yes, thank you for my daily dose of misogyny from self-hating fangirls. Original BSG was *not* a great show, and adding a large number of female characters, including genderswaps of some that were originally male, does *not* make a series "Bimbos In Space." Unless, of course, you think all female characters are bimbos. Which, since you are an idiot, may be because you, yourself, are a bimbo, but trust me, some of us can tell that Roslin, Thrace, Boomer and Six are not bimbos, even if three out of four of them have actually had sex. The term means "brainless attractive woman who is a sex toy", not "woman who has sex sometimes." Pls to check your woman hating.

Me, I see no reason to object to it. If the original is a great show, and the new version sucks balls... well, the original is still a great show, and the fandom won't really overlap. If the original is a great show, and the new version is a good show, then hey, bonus! I'm just reminded of how pissed off I was at the thought of them casting someone else as Spock... when I was *ten*. Come on, are there *any* ten year old Blake's 7 fans? No? Then let's not *act* like ten year olds.

(Although, to be fair, now that Spock *has* been recast, it amuses me endlessly to make jokes about him eating brains... :-))

A female Vila would change the dynamic a lot. For one thing the constant abuse everyone just unthinkingly heaps on Vila would make all the other characters even *more* unsympathetic if the character was female. But you know what I would love to see that they will never ever in a million billion years do? I want to see *Blake* as the woman. Because they won't make Avon a woman without ruining the character (yes, she's a computer genius and a psychopath, but look, she wears hot pants!), and they'd have to Mary Sue Vila to make him a woman (Vila is objectively incredibly talented; take away the whining and the low-man-on-totem-pole behavior because those would make us less sympathetic if he was a girl, and take away the abuse everyone else heaps on him, and you have a much more traditionally "cool" character.) But Blake is a revolutionary, and revolutionaries can just as easily be women as men. And how fucking awesome would it be to *finally* have a show where the woman is the ideologue who does everything for her Cause and the man is the greedy, brilliant sumbitch who does everything for personal gain, except that he inexplicably does what she tells him to despite bitching about it endlessly?

(Okay, now that I think of it, that's a little like Six and Baltar. But Blake is much more fallible than Six and Avon is much smarter and cooler than Baltar. Much as I love Baltar, Avon totally pwns him.)

(Now I want to write Blake's 7 genderswap with a female Blake...)

But hey, if the remake made Jenna and Cally and Dayna and Soolin into the strong characters they are capable of being, there would be no need to genderswap anyone to restore sex balance... also, they could give Zen an eerie feminine voice instead of an eerie masculine voice, and then the Seven would consist of 4 guys, 2 women and a feminine computer. Admittedly a feminine computer sounds a lot like Star Trek, but the computer on Star Trek is not sentient and Zen is.

Re: Oh, man, the *comments*.

[kindkit.livejournal.com]

"They took a great show {Battlestar} and made it Bimbos in Space!"

The person who made that comment is a notorious lunatic (seriously--this is someone who refuses to vote because she supports an absolute monarchy), so I don't think that other people who've said they're nervous/unhappy about the remake should be judged by her.

I'm trying not to judge the remake in advance, and I know it won't harm the original show. But knowing what TV tends to be like these days, I can't help picturing a show with all the subtlety written out, with its politics defanged, and with compulsory heterosexuality written in like whoa.

I hope I'm wrong.

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

If they remake B7 that means they'll re-release the old version on DVD, and that's all to the good. Maybe I'll finally get to see it!

He also never forgave the production team for destroying Traken in the next story, which they had not told him they'd do.

Further evidence that it did not in fact happen. A Master-generated illusion, I tell you.

Re: Ainley: What? He wasn't intentionally imitating Delgado? ::is baffled:: And I will have to take that comment as meaning that he thought his obvious crush on the Doctor was his own invention. ;)

Being Human ...

[gaspodex.livejournal.com]

WEll ... A BBC version of a full season ...

Six episodes... still better than a poke in the eye ...

[vandonovan.livejournal.com]

I really am enjoying your reviews. I may have to friend you someday. >_>

I love an over crowded TARDIS. (My favorite era is Troughton's, and Ben, Jamie and Polly NEVER felt like Adric, Nyssa and Tegan did. Nor did Ian, Barbara and Susan/Vicki.) I much prefer two companions to one, myself. Sometimes I think one companion CAN work (Leela, Romana, Ace), but I think two is the best.

I really wish the directors would lay off forcing actors to play the roles in a certain way. I'm convinced I would have enjoyed the Simm!Master more if Simm had had more control of the character.



As for the B7 reimagining, I'm quietly optimistic. (Which I mostly keep to myself, since fandom appears to want to lynch those in favor of it.) Personally, I don't see how it can HURT things. It might interest new people in the old series, which the fandom desperately needs. And, it's not like the old fans have to stop liking the original series just because there's a new one.

[vandonovan.livejournal.com]

Just as an aside, B7 is on DVD already. >_> Or did you mean R1 DVDs? 'Cause that would be nice.

Still, there are. Ways of seeing it now, if you want. >_>

[futuresoon.livejournal.com]

Wahey, Being Human! Six episodes, particularly if they are a full hour long, is not to be sneezed at. *loves her silly little werewolf-vampire-ghost show, yes she does*

[andraste]

I am delirious over the prospect of more Being Human, and will watch with interest to see how the B7 remake develops. I cannot get too upset about the possibility of its sucking - if it does turn out awful, well, I just won't watch it. I can't imagine how they'll eventually end it if it does become a series, though!

Re: Oh, man, the *comments*.

[andraste]

My first thought when I heard there might be a remake was 'yay! Potentially stronger writing for the female characters!' Not that Servalan needs too much help in that department, but Jenna and Cally could sure use the boost. I'm actually wondering if they'll make Dayna a founding member, because the existing crew don't have an CoCs, unless one or more of them get race-swapped instead of gender-swapped in a remake. (Happened with Tigh in BSG.)

It would be AWESOME if Blake was a woman, but sadly I agree that they won't do that.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

*g* I so wonder what the actors they'll cast will be told, re:possible ending.

And yes, exactly. If it sucks, I don't have to watch, and my dvds of the original are still there for my enjoyment.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

May it prosper!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

B7: As said below, the old version is out on DVD in its entirety, on R2. Do you have a region-free DVD player, perhaps?

Re: Ainley: What? He wasn't intentionally imitating Delgado? ::is baffled:: And I will have to take that comment as meaning that he thought his obvious crush on the Doctor was his own invention. ;)

Either that, or we have another case of Charlton Heston in Ben Hur!

Re: Oh, man, the *comments*.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Didn't we wonder and discuss about what difference genderswaps of the B7 characters would make two years or so ago? I remember you arguing that it can't be done with Avon without everyone hating the character for exactly the same behaviour, which I found fascinating. (And sadly completely true.)

Blake as a woman: that would be ever so intriguing, yes. Though don't you think the same thing would apply? I mean, given that Blake's willingness to do everything for the Cause, including manipulating the others, already causes hot debates as it is - I wonder whether a Star One debate with a female Blake wouldn't degenerate into the kind of female self-loathing you observe instead of being about the issues?

Intriguing comparison to Baltar and Six, btw.

BSG-related comments: Head. Desk. And what you said.

[seriousfic.livejournal.com]

Heeey, thanks for the rec. I have to admit, when I first saw this post I was like "she can't be talking about my... OMG!" :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

It's a far bigger mystery than "what WAS up with the Watcher?", I tell you.*g*

And you're welcome.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I have no problem with more than one companion myself, and agree it worked splendidly with both One and Two. Also, the Three era which is one of my favourites has a regular supporting cast because of its very structure. Otoh, my love for Seven 'n Ace means that my very favourite Doctor and Companion combo is one with one companion in Classic Who.

Simm!Master: here we have to agree to disagree again.

B7 remake: yes, exactly. If it sucks, it won't hurt the original, and even if it's just okay instead of great, it'll make new people check the original out. And I, for one, am very curious how they'll handle the old debates of "freedom fighter versus terrorist" in a show made in current day. (Somewhere I have a post on how ST: DS9 probably would not have been made in a post-9/11 US, but this will be a British show.) And frankly, some storylines that went nowhere for RL reasons in the original could be played out here if the show goes on longer, for example the whole Andromedan invasion scenario and the brief alliance of necessity between Servalan and the Liberator crew. I'd really like to see a take on this in a storyline where the Andromedans don't just go home, never to be heard of again!

Re: Oh, man, the *comments*.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Seconded on that person. She's a nutter.

I'm worried because of who B7E are; I'd be excited about a remake from others.

They bought the rights a few years back and first wanted to do a sequel, then a cartoon series of the original, then finally did the audio plays which distort the characters and universe.
Sewell has alienated fans by sneering at them and expressing hatred of slash.
PD was involved but left them after strong disagreement.
The whole shebang is owned by a US fundie group who have hitherto only done Bible stories for children.

This does not make me feel very optimistic.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Excellent news about Being Human!

Re: Oh, man, the *comments*.

[kindkit.livejournal.com]

The whole shebang is owned by a US fundie group

Wow. I did not know that. That's so very bizarre.

Re: Oh, man, the *comments*.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

The women who called BSG 'bimbos in space' is a nutter as kindkit pointed out. She hates anything made in the last 20 years, democracy, feminism, abortion, homosexuality, and probably a hell of a lot more.

Please don't judge B7 fans by her.

Re: Oh, man, the *comments*.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

That does sound anything but promising, but I suppose they could still hire a headwriter who is actually talented. In any case, as I said before - if it sucks beyond the telling of it, nobody forces me to watch it, and I still have my shiny dvds of the original.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

I have not seen the last two episodes, so don't spoil me if you have seen it, but have you seen Sarah Connor Chronicles. I think it's remarkably strong evidence to suggest your "we'll never see a Kira-like character in the foreseeable future from a US show" is too pessimistic.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

You have a point, though without spoiling you I can still say that the tv show goes out of its way to avoid letting Sarah kill humans (see the Andy Goode scenario, for example, and I don't mean that as a criticism either of the show or Sarah; I don't want her to be Jack Bauer!); the Kira-like character there is, imo, is Derek Reese.

Re: Oh, man, the *comments*.

[alara-r.livejournal.com]

Oh, I consider myself a B7 fan -- haven't been in it for a while, but I used to devour fanzines like they were made of chocolate, and I was on the Space City mailing list for three or four years -- so I don't judge B7 fans by the reaction of one nutcase, believe me.

But *fandom in general* is full of women who hate women, so calling BSG2003 "bimbos in space" is actually kind of normal in fandom. I mean, most people don't do this, but most people don't write slash fic that turns the female characters into horrible screeching harpies, and yet we all probably know of a fic that did that. I'm not surprised by misogyny in fandom, just very very sad.

Re: Oh, man, the *comments*.

[alara-r.livejournal.com]

All the female fans would hate Avon for the exact same behavior. But TPTB would helpfully make Avon someone who dresses in either skin-tight catsuits or almost nothing, a la Seven of Nine and T'Pol, so the fanboys would like her even though she'd be a genius and a psychopath. Then half of female fandom would proceed to hate her for wearing next to nothing and having huge breasts, and the other half of female fandom would feel a desperate need to totally woobify her and have her fall In Luv with someone and start picking out china patterns and desperately want to get married and have babies. What wouldn't help is that TPTB would then go in that direction as well, and the subtext of the relationship with Blake would turn into "Avon is madly in love and will do anything Blake says".

Yeah. Somehow, any way you look at it, it'd be full of fail. I mean I'd love to read a good *fic* where Avon is genderswapped, in the hands of a writer who can do it right, but... I don't trust canon producers in any medium except books and *maybe* comics to pull off a female Avon.

I think if Blake was a woman there would be a lot of unnecessary hatred of her coming from female fans, but she's ostensibly the main character, which got Buffy a lot of mileage, and she is obviously emotional and passionate, which would save them from having to dress her in skankwear (also, the main character cannot dress like a skank, particularly if she is supposed to be the leader.) The plots would be written so as to make Blake right more often than wrong (although increasingly wrong as time goes on); she'd be inherently a more sympathetic character than Avon ever was. We would probably see more emotional weakness, more angst over things like being falsely accused of being a child molester, but these things would actually humanize the character to the women in the audience so the virulence of the hatred wouldn't be there, as it would be for female Avon.

So I think they *could* get away with it. Women will cut female main characters a lot more slack. But men don't like them (the Janeway-bashing by male fans in the first few seasons of Voyager was just unbelievable), so TPTB are really, really unlikely to go in such a direction.

Probably the safest thing to do would be to keep the original cast as-is, genderwise, but race-swap a character (actually the character I would most like to see race-swapped is Avon, because sexy supergenius black men are really rare; most black men are written to be the most boring character in the story... but then, Tyr Anasazi from Andromeda *was* essentially Avon played by a black man, so it's been done... but *he* wasn't a computer genius, just a super fighter with a total complex about superiority). Give Jenna and Cally more to do, make *someone* in the original cast black (and not Vila, please... we *really* don't need the funny thief who's the lowest caste in the cast to be the black man... rather not have the big, strong killer be the black man either... it would be best to be Blake himself, Avon, or one of the women.)

And keep Servalan *exactly* the way she is. :-)

Re: Oh, man, the *comments*.

[alara-r.livejournal.com]

That's pretty disturbing, yes.

Hatred of slash doesn't bother me. The original cast hated slash so much, slash had to go underground because Paul Darrow was apparently suing people or something. You probably know a lot more about that than me, but my point is, just because the producers hate slash doesn't mean the fans won't do it. No producer is capable in a patriarchy of doing a story without strong relationships between men, no matter how much they want to avoid slash, and if they *did* manage to do so it would only be by strengthening the female characters and making them really, really cool... so you can't avoid slash no matter what.

But US fundies doing Blake's 7? That's very, very disturbing.

Re: Oh, man, the *comments*.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I think if Blake was a woman there would be a lot of unnecessary hatred of her coming from female fans, but she's ostensibly the main character, which got Buffy a lot of mileage

Not really. I remember a lot of Buffy bashing. (And writing a defense post or two.)

But you know, I love the idea of black Avon. I really do. That would be awesome. Could they hire the actor who played the Operative in Serenity?

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Ouch, I hope they don't go too explicitly in that direction or I will be painfully conflicted over the conclusions I came to after much painful argument over the alleged racial symbolism of undead and demons in Jossverse fandoms. Which is that while it may be *just* possible to get away with absolute sanctity of human life versus casual killing of non-humans in a fantasy universe where the worldbuilding is infused with morality and there can be indisputably and irredeemably all-evil sentient beings, you can't really in any hard-SF show get away with "we must go out of our way to avoid killing human enemies but we can casually blow away the non-human sentient bad guys and go "FUCK YEAAAAAHHHH!" when bits of them bounce off the walls". (Note I'm treating Terminators as fully-sentient beings which some may dispute, but I like your comments in a post by aycheb about John alone of the humans seeing Terminators as people and the likely cause of that.)

And I don't think that the odd killing of a human enemy in absolute emergency would translate to Sarah "turning into Jack Bauer", and while it muight disturb you wouldn't disturb me half as much as something like the infamous Resurrection of the Daleks scene with Five doing a "have I the right" over killing Davros in cold blood in between killing Daleks with Bondian one-liners.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Which is that while it may be *just* possible to get away with absolute sanctity of human life versus casual killing of non-humans in a fantasy universe where the worldbuilding is infused with morality and there can be indisputably and irredeemably all-evil sentient beings, you can't really in any hard-SF show get away with "we must go out of our way to avoid killing human enemies but we can casually blow away the non-human sentient bad guys and go "FUCK YEAAAAAHHHH!" when bits of them bounce off the walls".

Oh, agreed, and I think they definitely avoid the second part already, given the character development Cameron gets, which includes, in one of the episodes you have already seen, her applying the concept of grief and loss to a Terminator she has just killed. And I think it's going to be important that John relates to Terminators in general differently than Sarah and Derek do (without underestimating how lethal they are).

You know we agree on Resurrection of the Daleks. Re: Sarah killing the occasional human if it is unavoidable, what I'd like to see it treated is actually the way Kira's past was. On DS9, we never were given the impression Kira (or the Bajoran resistance in general) was miraculously able to only kill in self defense, or only and exclusively military bigwigs; at the same time, this wasn't shown as something in the Bauerian way (you know, the whole "you softies just are scared to get your hands dirty" thing) but something Kira saw as inevitable in the kind of war she was fighting, but also not as cheerworthy.

However, I did notice that while Cameron and Derek were both showing killing humans, Sarah so far was not. So I couldn't help but wonder whether this was a deliberate decision.

Re: Oh, man, the *comments*.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I haven't seen much misogyny at all, unless you count men being the main characters of fanfic, and I think a lot of that is due to the men simply being more interesting on most TV shows due to the writers' own biases.

I have certainly never seen anyone else be as offensive and sexist as this woman is. I must have led a sheltered life, not being in any large fandoms.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Having just watched the last two episodes, I see what you mean. And it's interesting how the deaths get treated, with the black comedy of Cameron with the gangster in the boot of his car versus the horror of Derek killing not-Sarkissian in front of the little girl who may or may not have been his daughter. And the marvellous staging of Cromartie slaughtering the FBI team, which will go down on my list of Best Examples of Low Budget Driving Invention. I do like the way the series sets us up all the way through to expect the ending of it to be some kind of ultraviolent and finally triumphant fight between the Connors and friends versus Cromartie, but the violence is entirely different and far from glorious.

Although considering that Cameron's a Terminator, and what we saw Cromartie do over several episodes, that must be one of the least tense end-of-season cliffhangers of all time.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

And the marvellous staging of Cromartie slaughtering the FBI team, which will go down on my list of Best Examples of Low Budget Driving Invention.

Seconded. When the first one dropped in the pool, I thought "they're not playing this camp, are they?" and then I saw how wrong I was as the emotional effect of body after body in that water was so very very different. And the use of the Johnny Cash song turned out to be perfectly fitting.

What's your guess on why Cromartie left Ellison alive?

Although considering that Cameron's a Terminator, and what we saw Cromartie do over several episodes, that must be one of the least tense end-of-season cliffhangers of all time.

Indeed. The question isn't "can Cameron survive the explosion" because of course she can, but "can Cameron look like Summer Glau again in time for the prom?" *veg*

No, more seriously: I think we're heading towards an interesting dilemma here. Because obviously, the Connors won't use Cromartie's methods. But depending on how damaged Cameron's exterior is, the only way to restore her could be to get someone - with help from Cameron's chip - to develop the very bio technology allowing for human exterior of the terminators that they're trying to prevent.

[vandonovan.livejournal.com]

I really wish I liked Seven and Ace more. They have everything about them I should like, and yet something just never clicked for me. Sigh.

AS for Blake's 7, the Andromedan War (or lack thereof) is probably one of my saddest bits about the show. How I wish S3 had been spent showing the war and the repercussions of the war, instead of them just sort of hopelessly meandering through space. I've started watching Babylon 5 for the first time (since people tell me it's largely inspired by B7) and I like their handlng of the war and things. If there was one thing I changed about the story of B7, it would be to make S3 more like S3 of Babylon 5, with regards to the war.

I suppose we'll see if we ever even get those two test episodes, though, let alone three seasons.