Heroes 3.05 Angels and Monsters

[selenak]

Well, wouldn't you? Because I was completely unspoiled, and only ever following wee_warrior's clever lead (as it was she who first suggested the space pirate Petrelli senior might be not so dead and pulling strings behind the scene. Though apparantly the suicide wasn't entirely a made-up story, considering the physical state he's in. (So the question is: did Angela try to kill him, or did he really attempt suicide?) Now we've yet to see him act in teh role, but great casting, looks-wise; he really could be Adrian Pasdar's father.

Of course, the episode had other things to offer than the ZOMG Arthur Petrelli! twist. When Daphne saw Head!Linderman as well, and he was her mysterious employer, I was gleeful already, because really, having the employer be someone else would have made the field overcrowded. And I'm glad she was horrified at the Ando killing proposal. Which, btw, obviously has to be a scam Hiro pulled off somehow using his ability; the big, big question is whether or not he informed Ando ahead of time, i.e. whether they pulled this off together or whether Hiro did it on his own, because if the later, it means bad things for their friendship. In any case, the Ando-kills-Hiro future vision now looks like a restaging, again for the benefit of another viewer.

I continue to be happy with Claire's storyline this season. There were fears that her desire to avenge herself which Meredith unearthed would lead her to become the hardened Future!Claire, meaning the show would present her desire to be active and help - which is also there, along with the wish to strike back - as solely negative. But no. She's able to listen and weigh facts, and her compassion and wish to help are stronger than her anger, as we see in her scenes with Steven. And then Noah Bennet takes the price for most chilling character of the episode, which in one that features Sylar, Angela, and Head!Linderman takes some doing. I don't know about you, but by now I want to scream every time he declares he just wants to protect Claire and does everything he does for her. (I didn't buy that last season, either, and the show gave me ample reason not to.) Mind you, I'm not saying Noah is consciously lying. He probably believes this to be true (most of the time; he did have a moment or two last season when he realised it wasn't about Claire, it was about himself). But his desire to protect Claire has become both the smothering emotional equivalent of Mohinder spinning coccons in his bad horror movie plot thread, and the grand self justification and excuse for just about everything. Not that I disapprove of plans ridding the world of Sylar, mind. But this one also illustrated that HRG doesn't see anyone outside his family circle as being a person in the same sense, and you could tell that Claire, looking from him to Sylar and back, saw them both as monsters, though for different reasons.

(My Heroes dream scene of the moment is one where Claire tells Noah she doesn't want to be his excuse anymore, and he should pick something else, but that has been a dream scene of mine for a while.)

Speaking of excuses: the Peter scene at the start with Angela underlines the retcon of Sylar's ability as what made him into a serial killer, which I'm still anything but happy with, but I guess we're stuck with this.

Meanwhile, the other retcon - Nathan having his ability not because he inherited it but because Arthur and Angela couldn't stand the thought of THEIR son not being special - works completely with the backstory. And as always with Angela and her sons, his reaction - and Angela's reaction to this - was bristling with intensity. Nathan hasn't been able to keep up a "go to hell!" with his mother whenever she was genuinenly in trouble, so I'm curious as to how long it will be this time. On the other hand, there is dear old dad waiting in the background. And as I said in previous reviews: the Linderman disguise, given a) the events of Six Months Ago, i.e. Nathan deciding to prosecute Linderman even if it meant going after his father as well, followed by Arthur's sort-of-death, and b) the Arthur-Linderman relationship is perfect in a twisted, twisted Petrelli way. Especially since Nathan was Arthur's favourite as Peter is Angela's. It's punishment and rebuilding at the same time. Ah, Petrellis. You truly put the Borgias to shame, and the Julian-Claudians.

Tracy's attitude when meeting Angela was a welcome proof the writers didn't forget the strength they had give her initially before the bridge jumping. (Must be one of Angela's personal nightmares, too. Nathan with another blonde!)

All in all: good episode, that. Now, Daphne, get Matt out of Africa so he can rejon the rest of the cast!

Comments

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

You have no idea how hard it was to keep quiet when I saw your spec last week. Moments like that are worth being unspoiled for. Now let's see if I can ever manage it.

I am loving Claire's storyline this season: I love that she starts off using her dad's tactics of tasering the bad guy, but then shifts into a more empathetic (hah) mode and really bonds with Steven. And I loved that moment of betrayal at the end. From the look on Sylar's face, I'd say he's far from being redeemed--he might even be playing Angela.

It's fascinating that Nathan was used as a lab rat because Arthur couldn't stand him not being special. Maybe this even contributed to his dislike of Peter, when he saw that his genetically gifted younger son was, personality-wise, completely unsuited for the path his parents might otherwise have chosen for him?

I expected to hate Peter attacking Angela, but my overwhelming feeling was that she had it coming, from both her sons. To paraphrase gossy16, with Peter, it's not so much the straw that broke the camel's back, as the fact that the camel's been stripped, flogged, skinned, and it's bones ground into powder. XD

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Moments like that are worth being unspoiled for. Now let's see if I can ever manage it.

I'm crossing my fingers on your behalf, because the feeling of joy in proven right about an unspoiled guess is indeed worth it!

I love that she starts off using her dad's tactics of tasering the bad guy, but then shifts into a more empathetic (hah) mode and really bonds with Steven.

Yes. I can see Claire taking her dad as a role model when trying to become someone who is not a victim, who is someone not to be messed with, but she quickly sees/is reminded of the other side. (And I really think that thought I gave her in a fanfic must have occured on more than one occasion - if she hadn't been his adopted daughter, Noah would have hunted her down and handed her over without a thought.) She is still able to see Steven as a person, not as "villain standing in for Sylar who hurt me". And you know, the show really exceeded my expectations because I did expect Claire to find out about the Sylar-Noah team-up and feel betrayed, but I did not expect the infinitely better sense of betrayal and horror when Noah tries to push Steven to murder. It doesn't matter for Claire that it's Sylar who is supposed to be Steven's victim; it's still her father trying to force a man into murdering for him, and that man rather taking his own life.

It's fascinating that Nathan was used as a lab rat because Arthur couldn't stand him not being special.

And suddenly Bob and Elle don't like like the exception anymore...

Angela did have it coming, but I would rather have Peter lose it towards her because of pure anger about what she did, not because he's additionally fueled by indiscriminate Sylar-inherited killing rage. Ah well. She had that from Future!Peter, and from Nathan both at the start of last season and now again. Incidentally, I found it interesting Angela's response towards FPeter was quite different than towards either of her sons in the present when they were angry with her. Probably because she could compartmentalize FPeter as a possibility that could remain unfulfilled, but this Peter and this Nathan were undoubtedly the genuine articles.

[almeda.livejournal.com]

I noticed them repeatedly setting up conversations between Owner Of An Attacky Power and Owner of a General Power (freeze talks to fly; vortexes talks to healing), causing the latter to realize that 'finding out I have a power' is way less cool if you accidentally kill people when you do it. Culture shock -- privilege, really.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

True, that, though Nathan accidentally almost got Heidi killed when he found out he had a power; it definitely got her crippled till Linderman intervened. (Otherwise flying pretty much is harmless or like Claire's power defensive, I agree.)

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

And I guessed that way back in the first season!

Speaking of which, I feel that a lot of these plots, especially the ones about Nathan thinking they are angels and the powers being induced at least in some people go back to Season One - I remember reading an interview back then with Adrian Pasdar, bless his inability to keep secrets, where he said something about Nathan and the angels, and I always wondered if Nathan's fear of possible experimentation had a basis in something. So, these things definitely can be tied back to some groundwork.

As for Tracy's suicide attempt, I didn't see that as painting her as weak as much as a panic reaction - she had just killed someone and didn't know what was happening to her. I'm sure if she had had a bit of time to think about it, she would have refrained - not to mention that her handing in her resignation first could be read as some sort of signal.

I mostly enjoyed the episode - we don't speak of Flyhinder - but wasn't too happy with the undertones of sexual peril in Meredith's scene with what seems to be Eden's Creepy Uncle. I really wish they would stop using that narrative short cut - I think it's very clear that Claire isn't doing such a great job in her quest to become heroic without making one of the few female characters with agency into a damsel in distress.

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

I'm crossing my fingers on your behalf, because the feeling of joy in proven right about an unspoiled guess is indeed worth it!

One of the reasons I'm finding it so hard to stay unspoiled is because I'm *worried* about what's going to happen to Peter. I know it's unlikely that I'll find anything to reassure me, because they will be keeping that information under wraps, but still...

And I really think that thought I gave her in a fanfic must have occured on more than one occasion - if she hadn't been his adopted daughter, Noah would have hunted her down and handed her over without a thought.

And Sylar is playing on that expertly. He's got the Petrelli manipulative streak all right--leaning more towards Angela's kind of deliberate manipulation than Peter's. Oooh.

Incidentally, I found it interesting Angela's response towards FPeter was quite different than towards either of her sons in the present when they were angry with her. Probably because she could compartmentalize FPeter as a possibility that could remain unfulfilled, but this Peter and this Nathan were undoubtedly the genuine articles.

That makes sense. And she does seem truly heartbroken over Peter's loss of innocence, and Nathan's anger. But she's still not above trying to manipulate Nathan, right to the end, framing Peter's absorption of Sylar's power as a "sacrifice." i.e. Don't let your brother's sacrifice go to waste. Help me. It's the truth, but only part of the truth, in classic Angela style.

[mimesh.livejournal.com]

(And I really think that thought I gave her in a fanfic must have occured on more than one occasion - if she hadn't been his adopted daughter, Noah would have hunted her down and handed her over without a thought.)

Which raises the question for me how Noah sees people with abilities in general. His relationship with The Haitian could pass as more genuine than a normal working relationship but this didn't seem to have any significance if we think of what happened with Claude. With the exception of the short moment he considered himself as being in Peter's debt for saving Claire, I can't recall any situation where he actually meets a special with respect and open-mindness. He really does seem to see all of them as freaks and uses them for either the Company's or his personal goals.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I think it's very clear that Claire isn't doing such a great job in her quest to become heroic without making one of the few female characters with agency into a damsel in distress.

See, I'm withholding judgment here because I think this is a set-up so Claire gets to rescue Meredith, with or without Sandra, but definitely without Noah. If that's so, it would be a neat reversal to all the parent figures (safe Nathan) insisting on her need for protection, etc. If on the other hand Noah saves Meredith, or if Meredith dies, I'll be all grrrr, arggh.

Nathan and experimentation: aaaaand we're back again at your old idea of a time-travelling Hiro trying out to find out what the Company did meeting child!Nathan getting traumatized for life. Because while the triplets probably were experimented on as babies - and are years younger than Nathan, so by then the technique was more advanced, Nathan must at least have been two or three years old, if the comics are in any ways canon (i.e. if Arthur didn't reconnect with Linderman, leading to Adam, leading to Company and experiments etc.) - old enough to have some very basic memories. This was years before the Haitian could provide mindwipes.

I'm sure if she had had a bit of time to think about it, she would have refrained

You do have a point, and she didn't appear to be suicidal anymore the morning after. And held her own against Angela, which really does her credit.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

While I don't doubt Sylar was playing (or attempting to) Claire against Noah with that remark, it worked because there is something to it. It might have been the only way how Noah could justify to himself doing what he did for all these years (plus remember, he didn't know some of the higher ranking Company members were themselves people with abilities - he didn't know Linderman was in the Company at all, or the Petrellis, he had no idea about Kaito having superpowers, and chances are he didn't know Bob did, either, though he did know about Elle) - distancing himself from them and regarding them as useful, dangerous tools.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Sylar and the Petrelli brand of manipulation: hm, I see it half between Peter's and Angela's variation. Just think about the way he played Mohinder in s1 and Maya in s2; he became whom they needed/wanted him to be. Angela manipulates by spotting other people's buttons and by using them against each other, true, but she doesn't change herself; she maintains the persona she projects. (Though you could argue Peter saw her differently than Nathan did until after the end of s1, I suppose, but not so completely different as the way Sylar's impersonations appear.)

And she does seem truly heartbroken over Peter's loss of innocence, and Nathan's anger. But she's still not above trying to manipulate Nathan, right to the end, framing Peter's absorption of Sylar's power as a "sacrifice." i.e. Don't let your brother's sacrifice go to waste. Help me. It's the truth, but only part of the truth, in classic Angela style.

Oh absolutely. In the Apocalyptic Future Mark II, the one with the virus, she did the same thing with Peter, using Nathan's "sacrifice"; assuming in this timeline, Nathan died in the first outbreak, this would be another truth yet not not complete truth, given that she pointedly didn't tell Peter in Out of Time where that virus came from and who originally produced it. And of course back at the start of s2 when accusing Nathan of being at fault for Peter's death she wasn't just angry but trying for a guilt button in order to make Nathan listen to her again. She always tries to use them against each other. (And Claire gets a variation of that in .07% when Angela gives her "my two boys, getting along for a change" description, thus making it clear to Claire that Nathan does not get along with her hero and that Angela is the one to be trusted.)

...yet the reason why all of this often is effective is that she feels and believes a lot of it. I found it striking in the deleted s2 scene with her and Nathan that this basically was her way of saying "I want you back", and she seems to have believed she could keep Peter somehow in that state of innocence despite using him.

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

Just think about the way he played Mohinder in s1 and Maya in s2; he became whom they needed/wanted him to be.

Ooh, that's true. So it's like a mix of Peter and Angela's, but much more consciously done than Peter. I think cadesama was spot on in saying that if Peter had been in the car with HRG and Claire, he'd have noticed exactly the same things as Sylar, but he'd have tried to help them rather than driving them further apart.

...yet the reason why all of this often is effective is that she feels and believes a lot of it. I found it striking in the deleted s2 scene with her and Nathan that this basically was her way of saying "I want you back", and she seems to have believed she could keep Peter somehow in that state of innocence despite using him.

Yes, exactly. If he's the one *being* used, passive, then he remains innocent and pure--whereas if he becomes corrupted in the process, he's in danger of devolving away from the Peter she loves. It's so sick and twisted.

[cadesama.livejournal.com]

But this one also illustrated that HRG doesn't see anyone outside his family circle as being a person in the same sense, and you could tell that Claire, looking from him to Sylar and back, saw them both as monsters, though for different reasons.

I wonder how much that plays into his determination to see Claire as someone to protect. Historically, Noah doesn't put a lot of thought into the specials being people, so does it make it easier to love Claire if he denies her ability to the point of thinking he actually needs to protect her? Some of it is emotional protection, sure, but he has gone way beyond what any sane parent would be doing at this point. You have to let go eventually, and he's determined not to, very possibly because that would be acknowledging that either all specials are people, or that he's a horrendous hypocrite who would have attacked his own daughter if she had been raised by someone else.

Speaking of excuses: the Peter scene at the start with Angela underlines the retcon of Sylar's ability as what made him into a serial killer, which I'm still anything but happy with, but I guess we're stuck with this.

It underlines it, but then again, it also contrasts, IMO. Peter has not become the chilly killer than Sylar is. He's angry and wound up and distraught, and the HUNGER is another push to do something with that rather than sit and listen to the lies. Sylar, OTOH, seems to be in control but uses it as an excuse.

Tracy's attitude when meeting Angela was a welcome proof the writers didn't forget the strength they had give her initially before the bridge jumping.

I'm apparently totally alone in this, but I don't think attempting suicide makes her a weak person.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Re: Noah - I think there's something to it, though he had no problem using her ability to defuse Ted when telling Matt to shoot her in Company Man. But that was in a direct crisis, and everyday-wise, I think Noah needing to be in denial makes much sense.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Some of the critics of the show on racial grounds will see the differing fates of Tracey and Steven as an expression of racial prejudice on the part of the writers (Tracey kills someone with an outburst of uncontrolled power and gets Nathan's understanding and attempts to persuade her not to turn herself in, Steven kills someone likewise and gets tossed into Level Five for years and then kills himself when Bennet tries to make him do it again), but I suspect that it might actually have been meant as an examination of what happens to those who do and don't have racial and class privilege.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

The scenes with Bennet and Claire in this episode make me hope that the writers actually did take the gender-related criticisms of Claire's relationships with Bennet and West last season on board privately, as opposed to their point-missing public statements of "apparently people don't want Claire to get a romance plot".

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I hope so, too. Mind you, not that the show does have a good track record with romance, Charlie and Hiro aside, but still, ithe fact there was a romance wasn't the main problem with Claire's storyline - or lack of same - last season.

*starts to say more about gender in Claire's interactions with her parents, then realises this would contain a spoiler for something you haven't seen yet and shuts up*