Heroes 3.07
Oct. 30th, 2008 08:54 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakThe last two days were insanely busy, and I only now got the chance to watch this.
Scriptwriter Jesse Alexander makes me very happy and pairs up Claire and Elle. I've been wanting to see them interact again ever since those brief tidbits in season 2, and I absolutely loved what we got. Complete with intriguing new information about the season arc, because it hadn't occured to me before Claire's loss of pain sense might be connected to it in this particular way, rather then being a part of Claire's personal arc. But if Claire's abilities and Elle's abilities go into overdrive simultanously, well; chances are we have a common cause there. Both of them had a Sylar encounter recently, Elle in level 5 where she took him out by using her ability to the maximum and Claire when he took her cut her open and took her own ability, which one presumes also required a maximum exertion on Claire's part to heal, so it might be that. Or it might be deliberately done on someone else's part; I'd suspect Arthur, but he didn't have the necessary access to either Claire or Elle.
Anyway: the company girls teaming up and discovering their similarities before separating on one key difference - Claire leaving because she saw what happened to Peter and that he needed help, Elle going into Pinehurst because her own need to deal with her ability was more important (not that I blame Elle; Claire's ability going into overdrive isn't constantly painful and doesn't get planes crashing) - was my favorite part of the episode. More of that, please. Also, show, don't let Arthur kill Elle because he doesn't need her ability (he has it already via Peter). If that handholding and electricity discharge doesn't lead to fanfiction, there is no justice.
Claire continues to have a great storyline in all regards; the teaming up with Elle being but one example. When being presented with a neat recall of her Homecoming encounter with Peter (thrown from a height, Sylar somewhat to blame, bleeding), she doesn't waste time to get themselves away; and you can see she's grown wise in the ways of Petrellis lying to each other without hesitation by the way she's watching Nathan when he gives Peter his fake reassurance of not paying a visit to Arthur. (Wise in the sense that as opposed to the end of s1, she's not reacting with "zomg how could you/he?" but "that's how they/we are".) More about that in a moment. First let me say I was also amused at Claire's little dig about fathers not being all that, because it's said in this wry matter of fact way, not accusatory, and while primarily directed at Nathan at this point, also covers her relationship with Noah. She's growing up, oh yes she is.
I was a bit frustrated Nathan and Tracy were stuck in the lab for this episode at first (and also ready to yell when it appeared they let them remain there after Mohinder's departure as if they couldn't leave by themselves, until we saw they waited because Nathan had called Noah to take care of the Flyhinder victims, which, you know, was the responsible thing to do), but in retrospect can see the storytelling sense, because that way we can get the Arthur and Nathan encounter next episode without it being cluttered by the Arthur and Sylar encounter happening simultanously. Also, it led to the hilarious update of Tracy in Nathan's soap opera of a private life by Meredith, and the Nathan, Peter and Claire scene later on, which definitely had to happen before the third father-son-meeting.
Detour re: father-son: aaaand we get some sort of explanation as to why Gabriel spent his childhood in the Bronx (unless Arthur is lying, which is always an option). Okay, I can see Angela trying vision-caused infanticide as a reason. Loved the Petrelli parents dong the button-pushing thing big time here, what with first Angela playing the "you're my favourite, make mummy proud" card and then Arthur playing the "you're not her favourite, Peter is, she just uses you to rescue him, and btw, she tried to kill you as a baby" card. While Sylar currently is something of a wildcard, with the seemingly joining of Arthur on the one hand and the Peter saving on the other. (I still don't by the characterisation retcon and the sudden fraternal feelings, but ah, well.) Given how bent the writers seem to be on rehabilitating him, I'm assuming he intends to play double agent in Arthur's camp (while also trying to find out whether Arthur told him the truth about Angela).
Nathan's "I was there" statement re: his certainty that Arthur had to be dead probably makes canon of the fanon that Nathan found or saw Arthur's body after the "suicide". Which makes me ever more intrigued as to what actually happened. The Six Months Ago mini flashback early on also makes me hope their meeting next episode (it has to be next episode, right? they can't delay it any further?) will include a callback to the fact Nathan was about to go against Arthur in court when this happened, which added to his guilt trip later. Him intending to see Arthur now despite of what Peter said is inevitable given all that, and that if Peter is Angela's favourite, he was Arthur's. Which is why I think Peter is pretty clear he was just lied to as well. It's what they do to each other. Methinks we're headed towards at least one scene where Arthur and Peter both appeal to Nathan's loyalties, not Arthur and Angela.
(Sidenote: I only just remembered: Peter didn't update Nathan on the Sylar is our brother situation, did he? Did Angela back after she put Peter in a coma, or is that bit of happy news still waiting?)
In other news, Matt and Daphne: you know, I thought the "kill Matt" command was a bit too pointless villainy, but "make Matt believe you joined him so you can infiltrate the Company" makes way more sense. Mind you, I still don't see how Arthur can count on Matt not simply reading Daphne's thoughts, but hey, maybe we'll get an explanation for that as well. Daphne seems to be headed for a somewhat predictable "pretend double agent becomes real double agent as feelings for Matt overwhelm her and she confesses all" Bond girl storyline which I'm not that keen on, but BSG made it somewhat affecting with Sharon, so why not. Though I miss her interactions with Hiro and Ando. As for Matt, I'm really relieved we got him calling Mohinder, because to repeat myself from last week, when Matt left, they and Molly were living together and he still has no explanation where everyone is.
Scriptwriter Jesse Alexander makes me very happy and pairs up Claire and Elle. I've been wanting to see them interact again ever since those brief tidbits in season 2, and I absolutely loved what we got. Complete with intriguing new information about the season arc, because it hadn't occured to me before Claire's loss of pain sense might be connected to it in this particular way, rather then being a part of Claire's personal arc. But if Claire's abilities and Elle's abilities go into overdrive simultanously, well; chances are we have a common cause there. Both of them had a Sylar encounter recently, Elle in level 5 where she took him out by using her ability to the maximum and Claire when he took her cut her open and took her own ability, which one presumes also required a maximum exertion on Claire's part to heal, so it might be that. Or it might be deliberately done on someone else's part; I'd suspect Arthur, but he didn't have the necessary access to either Claire or Elle.
Anyway: the company girls teaming up and discovering their similarities before separating on one key difference - Claire leaving because she saw what happened to Peter and that he needed help, Elle going into Pinehurst because her own need to deal with her ability was more important (not that I blame Elle; Claire's ability going into overdrive isn't constantly painful and doesn't get planes crashing) - was my favorite part of the episode. More of that, please. Also, show, don't let Arthur kill Elle because he doesn't need her ability (he has it already via Peter). If that handholding and electricity discharge doesn't lead to fanfiction, there is no justice.
Claire continues to have a great storyline in all regards; the teaming up with Elle being but one example. When being presented with a neat recall of her Homecoming encounter with Peter (thrown from a height, Sylar somewhat to blame, bleeding), she doesn't waste time to get themselves away; and you can see she's grown wise in the ways of Petrellis lying to each other without hesitation by the way she's watching Nathan when he gives Peter his fake reassurance of not paying a visit to Arthur. (Wise in the sense that as opposed to the end of s1, she's not reacting with "zomg how could you/he?" but "that's how they/we are".) More about that in a moment. First let me say I was also amused at Claire's little dig about fathers not being all that, because it's said in this wry matter of fact way, not accusatory, and while primarily directed at Nathan at this point, also covers her relationship with Noah. She's growing up, oh yes she is.
I was a bit frustrated Nathan and Tracy were stuck in the lab for this episode at first (and also ready to yell when it appeared they let them remain there after Mohinder's departure as if they couldn't leave by themselves, until we saw they waited because Nathan had called Noah to take care of the Flyhinder victims, which, you know, was the responsible thing to do), but in retrospect can see the storytelling sense, because that way we can get the Arthur and Nathan encounter next episode without it being cluttered by the Arthur and Sylar encounter happening simultanously. Also, it led to the hilarious update of Tracy in Nathan's soap opera of a private life by Meredith, and the Nathan, Peter and Claire scene later on, which definitely had to happen before the third father-son-meeting.
Detour re: father-son: aaaand we get some sort of explanation as to why Gabriel spent his childhood in the Bronx (unless Arthur is lying, which is always an option). Okay, I can see Angela trying vision-caused infanticide as a reason. Loved the Petrelli parents dong the button-pushing thing big time here, what with first Angela playing the "you're my favourite, make mummy proud" card and then Arthur playing the "you're not her favourite, Peter is, she just uses you to rescue him, and btw, she tried to kill you as a baby" card. While Sylar currently is something of a wildcard, with the seemingly joining of Arthur on the one hand and the Peter saving on the other. (I still don't by the characterisation retcon and the sudden fraternal feelings, but ah, well.) Given how bent the writers seem to be on rehabilitating him, I'm assuming he intends to play double agent in Arthur's camp (while also trying to find out whether Arthur told him the truth about Angela).
Nathan's "I was there" statement re: his certainty that Arthur had to be dead probably makes canon of the fanon that Nathan found or saw Arthur's body after the "suicide". Which makes me ever more intrigued as to what actually happened. The Six Months Ago mini flashback early on also makes me hope their meeting next episode (it has to be next episode, right? they can't delay it any further?) will include a callback to the fact Nathan was about to go against Arthur in court when this happened, which added to his guilt trip later. Him intending to see Arthur now despite of what Peter said is inevitable given all that, and that if Peter is Angela's favourite, he was Arthur's. Which is why I think Peter is pretty clear he was just lied to as well. It's what they do to each other. Methinks we're headed towards at least one scene where Arthur and Peter both appeal to Nathan's loyalties, not Arthur and Angela.
(Sidenote: I only just remembered: Peter didn't update Nathan on the Sylar is our brother situation, did he? Did Angela back after she put Peter in a coma, or is that bit of happy news still waiting?)
In other news, Matt and Daphne: you know, I thought the "kill Matt" command was a bit too pointless villainy, but "make Matt believe you joined him so you can infiltrate the Company" makes way more sense. Mind you, I still don't see how Arthur can count on Matt not simply reading Daphne's thoughts, but hey, maybe we'll get an explanation for that as well. Daphne seems to be headed for a somewhat predictable "pretend double agent becomes real double agent as feelings for Matt overwhelm her and she confesses all" Bond girl storyline which I'm not that keen on, but BSG made it somewhat affecting with Sharon, so why not. Though I miss her interactions with Hiro and Ando. As for Matt, I'm really relieved we got him calling Mohinder, because to repeat myself from last week, when Matt left, they and Molly were living together and he still has no explanation where everyone is.
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no subject
Date: 2008-10-30 07:55 am (UTC)You can bet someone's already writing it. A gift to the slashers.
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Date: 2008-10-30 08:45 am (UTC)Next episode (in two weeks I believe) seems to be a flashback, if the description isn't completely wrong, so I guess we won't get Nathan meeting Daddy before the very end. But apparently we will get Arthur's "suicide" since it does seem to take place somewhere around "Six Months Ago".
Peter didn't update Nathan on the Sylar is our brother situation, did he?
Nope. :)
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Date: 2008-10-30 09:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-30 09:13 am (UTC)P.S. Look what I just found!
Date: 2008-10-30 09:19 am (UTC)Look (http://www.heroes-france.com/news_1225304875.htm)!
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Date: 2008-10-30 10:46 am (UTC)I wonder if the writers had this whole Arthur thing thought out in season one or is it something they dreamed up now.
And again, this time travel thing is tricky. Since Future!Peter still had his time travel abilities but Arthur took them in the Now!Peter - does he get them back at some point so he can go back in time and screw everything up? Or is that another time line and Now!Peter is stripped of his powers for good???
Re: P.S. Look what I just found!
Date: 2008-10-30 10:52 am (UTC)Re: P.S. Look what I just found!
Date: 2008-10-30 10:58 am (UTC)Sidenote: it totally cracks me up that Arthur has that photo of Nathan and Peter next to his bedside. It's everywhere! It truly is!
And the other trivia I love is that Angela is wearing one of her elegant black costumes that looks completely like what she dressed Claire in for the s1 finale.
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Date: 2008-10-30 11:05 am (UTC)Abilities and Peter in several timelines: well, the show already established that various future timelines can exist - so far, we've had the Blow Up New York Future, the Virus Future, and now the Everyone Has Abilities Future. Individual characters have very different fates in these futures. So the fact F!Peter this season has his abilities doesn't have to mean anything in regards to what Arthur did to Now!Peter - maybe in his timeline, Arthur never got out of his bed-ridden state. This being said, I'm 50/50 as to whether they'll give Peter his abilities back. Removing them is really useful both for characterisation and plot purposes, but on the other hand I somehow doubt they'll go for a Sylar versus Arthur fight for the season finale, so Peter might regain a more limited version of his abilities (perhaps the original form, where he can display other abiliities as long as the people who have them are actually around).
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Date: 2008-10-30 11:17 am (UTC)I actually suspect in that scene that not only is Claire wise to Petrelli lies, but sort of counting on them. Seems to me that she just sent Nathan to go fight in Peter's stead, to keep Peter safe. The only real problem is that she is totally underestimating how messed up the Petrellis really are. She's seen Nathan choose Peter over Angela, but we don't know that would actually be the case with Arthur. I mean, it will be eventually, but there's a significant chance Arthur will win out at first.
Okay, I can see Angela trying vision-caused infanticide as a reason
I can see it, but I definitely think there's more to that story. Plus, if they brought infant!Gabriel home from the hospital, Nathan would theoretically remember it (yet another reason why Nathan doesn't know Sylar is his brother yet, since they want to keep us in suspense over who is lying about what). It still honestly makes more sense to me that they gave him up at the hospital because of visions of his future.
(I still don't by the characterisation retcon and the sudden fraternal feelings, but ah, well.)
I suppose I don't have a lot of trouble with it, because a main component of Sylar's characterization has always seemed to be his want of a ~*~special~*~ family. He's always been a chameleon, taking on new identities and lying to fit in. Why not try it with the Petrellis, his new family, the most special of the special? The fact that he's mostly operating under Angela's direct orders instead of thinking of nice things to do for his family also helps.
Re: P.S. Look what I just found!
Date: 2008-10-30 11:17 am (UTC)That's the first thing I thought, too!
Poor Heidi must have felt really unloved, since the only pictures the family kept from her wedding seem to have been the ones with Peter and Nathan.
Angela: she seems so loving. There is a complete difference in her behaviour, which is awesome.
So, do you think she tried to kill Arthur, or did he fake the whole situation, not just his death?
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Date: 2008-10-30 11:18 am (UTC)I'm willing to buy Sylar's retcon now because I just found his interactions with Peter hilarious and at times oddly touching. It's a much more traditional sibling-type relationship than Peter-Nathan. "He's our father!" "No! He's my father!" "You're my favorite." "Oh no, you're not." Heh.
It looks like there's going to be a Peter-Claire team-up soon, which makes me very, very happy. YAY.
I'm not sure that I buy Nathan's bond with Tracy developing so quickly and deeply that he'd bring her to Peter's and then later to see Arthur, but I'll wait and see how they play it.
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Date: 2008-10-30 11:27 am (UTC)Yes. The thing is, Peter never had real competition for Nathan with everyone else, but with Arthur they have something to build on so it will be more suspenseful, because if you take the deleted scene into account, the record is actually 50/50; Nathan and Peter had their moment of turning against Arthur together, but because it was followed by Arthur's "death" that quickly, one of the consequences was Nathan "postumously" re-choosing Arthur (including transforming himself into Arthur to a degree) to some degree with the whole "Dad is dad, I can't be with you now" thing, trying to get some distance from Peter. And I doubt Peter has forgotten that. (Also, in the current situation Nathan has experienced Peter choosing to kill him to save the world quite recently. Yes, it wasn't this Peter, but I think as with Hiro and Ando, it's lurking in the back of his mind somewhere and colours his interactions (or lack of same) with Peter right now.)
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Date: 2008-10-30 11:33 am (UTC)Oh, I don't think he has. The whole episode seemed to have Peter reacting against the past rather than the present, when it comes to Arthur. He's barely fazed by losing his powers, but Arthur is still unforgivably evil for unnamed reasons. It's all about his baggage, and Nathan once more not siding with him, not believing that Arthur was the one to hurt him had to bring back some pretty bad memories.
(Also, in the current situation Nathan has experienced Peter choosing to kill him to save the world quite recently. Yes, it wasn't this Peter, but I think as with Hiro and Ando, it's lurking in the back of his mind somewhere and colours his interactions (or lack of same) with Peter right now.)
Hopefully. I would definitely like some elaboration on that point, maybe a good shouting match between the boys where Peter wants to know why Nathan doesn't trust him (although that is complicated by the fact that Peter ought to feel pretty unworthy of trust, having nearly de-brained Future!Nathan).
Re: P.S. Look what I just found!
Date: 2008-10-30 11:35 am (UTC)No wonder she finally chose to leave. It's a sense of "who got married again that day?", it truly is.
Angela: she seems so loving. There is a complete difference in her behaviour, which is awesome.
It also finally makes sort of sense out of Peter's comment in the pilot about Angela changing after their father died. Mind you, I interpret her "I'm sorry" at the end and stroking Arthur's cheek as her moment of realisation that he's lying, both because that's a Petrelli thing (i.e. tender body language in combination with either a cruel verbal statement or with a lie) and because it echoes the moment in The Godfather II when Michael tells Fredo he knows. Either way, though, even if she genuinenly does believe him - you do not only believe these two are married but that she loves him. (Affair with Kaito notwithstanding.) (And btw, since Linderman going after Nathan whe he was at the same time positioning Nathan to become President in Blow Up New York world always only made sense if you assumed his goons didn't mean to kill him and Heidi but just to scare Nathan, the retcon of Linderman not being behind the accident at all is inspired and sense-making.)
So, do you think she tried to kill Arthur, or did he fake the whole situation, not just his death?
Hm. I'm torn. On the one hand, I could have faked the entire situation simply because he didn't want the Petrelli versus Petrelli trial and wanted to move behind the scenes. On the other, given this clip and given Angela's statements to Peter in the pilot about love being overrated and given that Arthur in his bed was really dependent on minions like Maury and not in a situation he would have chosen until Adam was used as a healer: I think it's more likely that she tried to kill him and that after he somehow survived, he went underground.
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Date: 2008-10-30 11:50 am (UTC)I would probably enjoy the new fraternal dynamic between Peter and Sylar more had I not the impression they develop this at the cost of neglecting the old one between Peter and Nathan, you know. But hey, future developments might prove me wrong.
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Date: 2008-10-30 11:54 am (UTC)Oh, I had the impression, too. I mean, he didn't see Arthur kill Adam or do various villanous things. The only thing he knows about is putting Angela in a coma, and given that Angela just put him in a coma, that's not the ultimate degree of villainy. So the reaction is really against the past and due to their old family dynamics.
Shouting match which brings up various things: I'm all for it.
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Date: 2008-10-30 11:55 am (UTC)I'd assume that bits and pieces of this were already planned in some way. I think he was always supposed to be alive, and he was always supposed to be evil, but I'm pretty sure early on he was probably Sylar (before they cast Zach Quinto, anyway - the earliest idea for Sylar seems to be someone considerably older than all the other specials, so we probably have hints of Adam here, too).
That thing which is hinted at in the clip we saw, however, seems like a complete retcon to me.
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Date: 2008-10-30 11:59 am (UTC)On the plus side, Peter and Claire's bond appears to be a real throughline this season, which I appreciate greatly after it was almost completely dropped last season. They've had all four permutations of their future and present selves interacting now, which is great. Now we just need them to clear up their misunderstandings about Claire thinking F!Peter was P!Peter, and they can go and be kickass together.
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Date: 2008-10-30 12:08 pm (UTC)Now I'm going to have to rewatch that scene because, as you say, from what Claire's seen she's confident that Nathan will choose Peter, but Peter himself knows that the stakes are higher, so he's correspondingly more desperate.
Re: P.S. Look what I just found!
Date: 2008-10-30 12:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-30 12:14 pm (UTC)When I've rewatched it seems like she's watching Nathan very carefully. It's definitively a calculated move on her part, not something impulsive. And she ought to know Peter well enough to know that, with him talking about Arthur planning to kill them all, he's going to risk his life again if no one intercedes. I think she's really going to take on the role of a protector for him. :D
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Date: 2008-10-30 12:16 pm (UTC)Re: P.S. Look what I just found!
Date: 2008-10-30 12:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-30 12:51 pm (UTC)That's pretty much 1:1 what I said somewhere else about the brother situation. And I really hope you are right about the shooting unconsciously influencing Nathan's attitude towards Peter and that there will be some kind of follow up or confrontation or the entire shooting scenario would have been completely pointless.
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Date: 2008-10-30 12:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-30 01:15 pm (UTC)(With Arthur, we're still guessing until we get flashbacks, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was the type who has to come first with everyone he cares about and had issues about Nathan's bond with Peter as well.)
Re: P.S. Look what I just found!
Date: 2008-10-30 01:17 pm (UTC)Re: P.S. Look what I just found!
Date: 2008-10-30 01:22 pm (UTC)Bonus points if Claire makes a comment about the photographs in Peter's apartment...
no subject
Date: 2008-10-30 01:39 pm (UTC)He could be just assuming Matt will respect Daphne's privacy, given his feelings for her. Assuming that Daphne told Arthur about Matt's vision, or that whatever Pinehearst has on her lets them know somehow.
Re: P.S. Look what I just found!
Date: 2008-10-30 01:47 pm (UTC)As for Claire: undoubtedly she'd notice the avalanche of photos Nathan put up when he lived there, but alas, F!Peter was redecorating the apartment with strings since then!
"
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Date: 2008-10-30 01:50 pm (UTC)Arthur saying he'll put Daphne back where he found her if she doesn't obey makes me wonder where that was. Can't be as simple as "in poverty" or "in prison" - Daphne doesn't need Arthur either to get rich (she's very well off as a successful thief already) or to escape from a normal prison.
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Date: 2008-10-30 01:53 pm (UTC)I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to the next episode. But you should be prepared that it won't focus solely on the Petrellis but a great deal will be about Gabriel's development into Sylar. I know now much you love that character. ;)
(With Arthur, we're still guessing until we get flashbacks, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was the type who has to come first with everyone he cares about and had issues about Nathan's bond with Peter as well.)
I can see Arthur thinking that Peter is a bad influence for Nathan. But after they way Arthur was introduced to us in this season I have a hard time to understand why Nathan idolized him so much. So hopefully they delve a little bit deeper in these family dynamics next episode.
P.S. Forgot to add
Date: 2008-10-30 01:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-30 02:01 pm (UTC)Powerless, maybe? She could've been an early test case for synthetic powers. Although that would beg the question of why she has no side effects. Maybe she has a "ticking clock" like Claire and Elle and is helping Pinehearst to find a cure before it's too late.
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Date: 2008-10-30 02:01 pm (UTC)They bring out the best in each other, really. I think it's why I love them so much as a pair. And yes, Claire taking on the role as Peter's protector should be awesome, especially in light of her line in 3.02 about him not being able to save her all the time. Aw, kids.
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Date: 2008-10-30 02:11 pm (UTC)You know, I actually liked the Gabriel and Chandra flashbacks in Six Months Ago. So I think I will cope; especially since the Gabriel-to-Sylar period is actually something they haven't already covered repeatedly. (Gabriel losing it in front of Chandra when told he doesn't have an ability after all and even when committing his first murder is a far cry from Sylar smoothly manipulating Sandra Bennet and Mohinder a few months later.) If I have to see Sylar scenes, those are better than Redeemed!Sylar.
But after they way Arthur was introduced to us in this season I have a hard time to understand why Nathan idolized him so much. So hopefully they delve a little bit deeper in these family dynamics next episode.
I hope so, too, but have no trouble computing Arthur behaving villainously now with Nathan idolizing him. For starters, given that Nathan seems to be convinced when talking to Linderman in late s1 that Arthur would have been completely against Plan Blow Up New York and would have called it crazy, and how Angela's "your father would be ashamed of you if he saw you now" in 2.1 works on Nathan, one assumes Arthur never held villainous monologues when in Nathan's company but rather came across as someone with ethics, probably justifying the part where he was defending mobsters by saying someone had to do it and it was their right to get the best defense. There is also Nathan saying to Heidi that he understands that his father does what he does for his family (shortly before the car incident), so I'm assuming he saw Arthur the way much of fandom sees Noah Bennet: as someone who did ruthless things, to be sure, but did them for noble/family-loving reasons. Which would explain why he finally did go against Arthur after the accident because that time, the "but it's all for the best of the family" excuse for the Linderman association definitely didn't work given it got Heidi crippled. In retrospect, he seems to have convinced himself this was all Linderman's fault, and not Arthur's.
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Date: 2008-10-30 02:14 pm (UTC)Well, Tracy and Nathan don't have any, either. (Yet.) (And we don't know whether Mohinder's "tranquilizer" will have any effects.) But I like your idea that she's a case like Claire and Elle and on the clock before her ability goes into unbearable overdrive. (Maybe she won't be able to stop anymore? Seems what would happen to a speedster gone wild.)
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Date: 2008-10-30 03:29 pm (UTC)Re: Claire and Petrellis - something I forgot to mention that amused be as being so in character was that Nathan when Claire calls him, updates him she's in New York and with a wounded Peter, and tells him not to tell anyone does in fact not tell anything to HRG, and this directly after having called Noah himself to deal with the Flyhinder aftermath. This cracks me up because I don't think Nathan sees this as sabotaging Claire's relationship with Noah or competing on the Dad level. It's just that in this situation, he sees Claire as a Petrelli, and the whole thing as family business.
(Am so tempted to write a Bridget Jones style diary entry for Claire: "Great. Today I found out I have a still alive illegitimate grandfather. Who's into using Sylar to throw Peter out, so more crazy than the rest. I think I'm doomed, genetically. Also,
biodadNathan showed up with a blonde; I think Meredith probably knew what she was talking about when she said Nathan is a slut. More genetic doom? I swear I was just thinking of treating Peter's injuries when I stripped him, and that thing with Elle was about saving the plane from crashing. Honest."no subject
Date: 2008-10-30 03:42 pm (UTC)Hee! You should totally write that. Also notice that Claire wasn't too quick to suggest using her blood to heal Peter this time. Ahem. Seriously, the subtext isn't even subtext anymore. Not that I mind. XD
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Date: 2008-10-30 06:05 pm (UTC)There's a possible allusion to Arthur in the Claude & Peter episodes, when Claude tells Peter, more or less, "You're an empath. I knew someone like you once," looking pretty displeased.
Admittedly, Arthur isn't exactly an *empath*, but the similar copy-catting (and Claude's affective reaction) indicate a possible reference to Arthur here.
In terms of plot, I agree that it's pretty ad hoc, but I think they left the opening *for* plot with him, and this suggestion of his powers, through the combination of Peter's genealogy, and reference by his contemporary, Claude. (At that point the "empath" could as easily have been Angela.)
(...I really miss Claude. For one, I think working with Eccleston in the scenes made Ventimiglia a better actor.)
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Date: 2008-10-30 09:02 pm (UTC)Oh, I liked those scenes, too and I don't mind the silly redemption plot with Sylar as much as many other people do but believe me when I say that you probably won't be too happy about that part of the episode. Despite my struggle to stay spoiler free I picked up little bits here and there about the Gabriel plot and in addition to being a MAJOR retcon it has the potential to be truly horrific. I'm really torn between looking forward to the Petrelli stuff and utterly dreading the Gabriel arc.
so I'm assuming he saw Arthur the way much of fandom sees Noah Bennet: as someone who did ruthless things, to be sure, but did them for noble/family-loving reasons.
Ohhh, that's a very plausible and observant assumption. I can totally see Nathan thinking along those lines. It's just hard to imagine their family dynamics after what we have seen between Arthur, Angela and Peter which is of course the result of them building him up as the ultimate villain of this volume. But the HRG-Arthur parallels are really striking. Noah was introduced in a very similar way and it was only after a couple of episodes into the first season that it was understandable why Claire loves her father so much.
Re: P.S. Forgot to add
Date: 2008-10-30 09:53 pm (UTC)Very good point. I temporarily entertained the notion that it was an illusion to get Dahpne to cooperate much like Matt's brain mojo but it makes more sense that it was really happening for the reason you stated.
I also guess one reason why Arthur told Maury to choose the Linderman disguise with Nathan was because he simultanously wanted to punish Nathan for going against him, get him back on track with the political career both Petrelli parents always wanted for their eldest, and by reminding Nathan of all things Linderman-related prime him to feel like the prodigal son grateful to get another chance with his father.
Yes, I also think that using Linderman to mess with Nathan's head was a very deliberate choice on Arthur's part. Still, it will be very hard to make Nathan siding with Arthur remotely plausible (and we can probably assume that he will temporarily) after what he did to Peter and Angela. Nathan also knows that Arthur was behind the baby experiments as much as Angela so I'm really curious if they can pull that off.
It would be neat if they had similar scene to the HRG-Claire situation with the vortex man for Nathan's inevitable disillusion regarding Arthur after Claire's father remark and the HRG-Arthur parallels you picked up on.
Re: P.S. Forgot to add
Date: 2008-10-30 10:14 pm (UTC)He knows Angela said Arthur was behind the baby experiments (and in fact the one who wanted Nathan to be genetically manipulated so he'd have a power). Not the same thing. Given that lying to each other is a family hobby, Arthur could try pulling the "do you really believe all your mother tells you?" card, blaming the experiments squarely on Angela, complete with "I wasn't the one who wanted your brother to blow up New York, was I? And yes, I depowered him; of course I did. Given the state he was in, complete with trying to kill your mother, it seemed to be the most humane solution for everyone concerned. And who shot you again?" And I'm pretty sure that Angela in a coma will be explained/justified by telling Nathan Angela put Arthur in one first and/or tried to kill him. (Which might be when we finally address how Nathan feels about Peter's attempt out in the open.)
Mind you - I don't think this would work very long, because there are quite a lot of opportunities for Nathan to get disillusioned for good pretty fast in the current set-up at Pinehurst. If, say, Daphne or Knox mention that "kill Matt" scenario as a loyalty test; even better, if Daphne mentions Hiro was supposed to kill Ando as an entry test. And of course there is always Nathan's own backstory; no matter how guilty he feels for having intended to go to court, if it should turn out Arthur, not Linderman, was behind that car accident, the whole "I did some bad things, but I did them all because I truly love y'all" thing won't wash. Which brings me to:
It would be neat if they had similar scene to the HRG-Claire situation with the vortex man for Nathan's inevitable disillusion regarding Arthur after Claire's father remark and the HRG-Arthur parallels you picked up on.
Yes indeed. Which is why I would love Hiro to be the equivalent of the vortex man. (Well, except for the part for the vortex man dies/dissappears for good.) It would use the connection between him and Nathan formed in s1 and it would work because we've now seen Arthur treat his minions with cavalier disregard repeatedly, and he undoubtedly thinks of Hiro as a minion. He'd be too smart to actually hurt Peter or Claire (if he could) in front of Nathan, but he'd think nothing of endangering/hurting Hiro - to Arthur's way of thinking, there'd be no reason why Nathan should care. Just as HRG didn't really see Steven the vortex man as a person, or someone whose fate would have an impact on Claire; he was just someone to be used against Sylar. It would be a great parallel.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-08 09:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-09 06:17 am (UTC)