Fanfic recs

[selenak]

One minor effect the US elections had on me; I've started to rewatch The West Wing and this time might get around to aquire seasons 3-7 on DVD. The reason why I only possess season 1 and 2 so far was two-fold: a) while I like The West Wing, I don't have the sense of fannish urgency about it which would make me buy very expensive DVD sets instead of waiting until the price has been lowered, and b) the divergence between the fictional universe of The West Wing, where the President was an erudite man occasionally geeking out in Latin, where when in the heat of the moment he had a "bomb the hell out of them" impulse his chief of staff (and indeed the rest of the staff) could be relied upon to say, NO, and reason him back to his better self, where said staff was infinitely human in their flaws but full of believable idealism, where instead of exposing a CIA agent to punish her husband for daring to reveal wilful ignorance and lies on the part of the goverment the President would hire a Republican because he wasn't afraid of opposing viewpoints among his staff, between all of this and the real world was just too painful.

Rewatching also means re-reading, so, two West Wing fanfic recs:

Chiaroscuro: great Charley portrait, set early in s2.

We don't notice time pass: Ainsley and Mrs. Landingham, set near the end of s2.

...and yes, I've heard that Obama has made the man Josh Lyman was modelled after his chief of staff.

***

Heroes: speaking of things I've heard, while I was sad last week when the awful news of the stupid network firing writers Alexander and Loeb made the rounds, I feel cheered up by the prospect of Bryan Fuller returning to the Heroes writing staff if Pushing Daisies gets cancelled. (While still feeling sorry for Pushing Daisies, which I'm not a fan of but which is a charming and original show, should it get cancelled; given that Dead Like Me also didn't make beyond s2, Bryan Fuller must be feeling like shaking his fist at the skies. Though I hear Dead Like Me gets a movie?)

Also, there is fabulous fanfiction to be read:

Three Times Nathan Didn't Become A Brother (And One Time He Did) : spoilers until episode 3.07 Eris Quod Sum, but entirely backstory. cadesama pulls off a believable child and later teenager point of view, which isn't easy, Nathan growing into the person he'll become, and through his eyes also a portrait of his parents, especially his mother, who, like Nathan, keeps changing towards who'll she'll be. Intense, dysfunctional and sad without being sentimental, just the perfect Petrelli backstory.

Comments

[kangeiko]

...and yes, I've heard that Obama has made the man Josh Lyman was modelled after his chief of staff.

Even more amusingly, Obama himself was the model for the S6/7 Democratic candidate, Matt Santos (with Josh as Chief of Staff) who has as his running mate a party elder... and John McCain was the model for the Republican candidate, Arnie Vinnick, who has a pretty, young, right-wing Christian as *his* running mate ...

Either the writers were prescient, or they control the universe.

Ironically, this has stopped me from re-watching TWW. Where it made you depressed, for me it was pure escapism, where I could imagine a world where politics did not cater to the lowest common denominator and idealism really could win out. And it would all work out, guaranteed, because it was TV.

And now it's all actually happened, and my brain can't cope with the concept, because it's the real world and we're not getting a West Wing-style happy ending on sweeps week, complete with astounding, unexpected acts of human graciousness and kindness.

(It *is*, however, making me reread a lot of books featuring political utopias, or at least not *dys*topias - i.e. pretty much all of Kim Stanley Robinson's stuff, where the new President sets out to solve global warming and third world debt... and makes actual progress. )

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

The Dead Like Me film is apparently going straight to DVD early next year. Unfortunately Rube won't be in it (the actor is presumably busy with other things) and has gone on to the afterlife or whatever, Daisy will be played by a different actress, and they have a new boss who appears to be an arse, so I'm a bit wary of it.

[wondygal.livejournal.com]

I have nothing to add here, I'm just fangirling We don't notice time pass, one of my favorite pieces of fanfic. I don't think I've ever read the other one, and Charlie fic is always welcome, thanks. The election had a similar effect on me, it made me wildly nostalgic about TWW, but I haven't had a chance to rewatch it yet. The other effect being, man, I would pay so much money for TWW: Barack Obama, because the more I read about the backstage of the campaign, the more it seems like such a fantastic narrative, with the plus of being true. Or maybe that's a minus. Damn it, where are my dvds.

[thepandorarose.livejournal.com]

So nice to see you also enjoy the west wing. The west wing was my first real fandom and the first time I ever wrote fan fiction. I'm a Danny/Cj girl.

My friend called me on election eye saying how it was all like the final season of WW. Which I won't say since your going to watch it. I look forward to your thoughts.

I feel when Sorkin left it took the staff a while to really get up to speed. I didn't like season 5 and 6 had its moments for sure, but 7 finally was when the staff said "let's not be Sorkin, let's just try and be us" They also paired down the writing staff to a few of the best. I have been thinking this may be the best for heroes right now. Bring back BF, if he is free, is a great idea.

One of the great writers of the post Sorkin era to come through was the great Debra Cahn. I'm still waiting for her to get her own show.

I think the firing at Heroes is pretty terrible, but perhaps it will be for the best.

[watervole.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the West Wing story recs - both excellent.

[takethesky87.livejournal.com]

I should really watch West Wing sometime. I used to watch it with my mom back in the day, but never followed it chronologically, plus I was a lot younger and didn't appreciate most of it. Another TV show to add to the list...

As for Bryan Fuller, I would love to see him come back to Heroes ... but as a Pushing Daisies fan as well, I'm all conflicted. If I were a bigger PD fan I think I would be a little put off by Fuller saying he'd definitely like to come back to Heroes, even before his current show has been cancelled (as he has said here (http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2008/11/heroes-1.html?cid=138071032)). Part of me thinks he should be fully supporting his current show, rather than already treating its demise as an inevitability. Regardless... I still want him on Heroes. :P

[thepandorarose.livejournal.com]

Even more amusingly, Obama himself was the model for the S6/7 Democratic candidate, Matt Santos (with Josh as Chief of Staff) who has as his running mate a party elder... and John McCain was the model for the Republican candidate, Arnie Vinnick, who has a pretty, young, right-wing Christian as *his* running mate ...

Either the writers were prescient, or they control the universe.

I know. And during the election people we're already saying Santos was Obama, Hillary was Hoynes and Vinnick was McCain. Then my friend calls me almost crying on election eve about how the last season is playing out. Comparing what happened to Obama on election night (Trying not to spoil it here) happening to Santos. A little thin, but it made her so excited. I was like "Are you saying...." And she goes "YES!"

We love the West Wing way too much, as much as I love Heroes. And it make sense the writers of the last season kinda predicted the next political climate as most of them we're ex politico speech writers, except for Debra Cahn.

[lakrids404.livejournal.com]

I am clearly influenced of Scans Daily majority? view of Jeph Loeb (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/tag/jeph+loeb) . So when I heard that Jeph Loeb would stop on Heroes I took it as posetive thing for the show.

Tahngarth wrote in his post "The gallery of evil: Anatomy of a supervillain" to Scans Daily (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/5604413.html#cutid1) quete
There comes a time in the lives of most comics fans where their favorite character gets horribly raped by Jeph Loeb. This is only natural, and nothing to be afraid of. Loeb is a part of life, and the best thing to do is just to accept it and move on.

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

I can't see where Lyman came from Emmanuel. Very different characters, to me. I'll trust the writers to know what was in their own minds, but they left out the things that Emmanuel is best known for (sending a dead fish to somebody who disagreed with him...)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Well, I never thought much of most Scans_daily majority views (see: all things Iron Man for years, until the movie), so I'm not surprised to hear this. (Scans_daily is useful because it puts up things I would not otherwise see for the longest time in Europe, but I really don't like most of the comments there.)

Re: Loeb in comics, he's responsible for two of my favourite Batman books - The Long Halloween and When in Rome..., so I'm good with him there. Re: Loeb on Heroes, he's responsible for all the geeky allusions - Tim Kring wasn't familiar with the comics world before starting this show - and things like the Stan Lee cameo in season one, or in-jokes like one of the FBI agents liasing with Nathan being called Joe Quesada. So yes, he's a big loss.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

All three factors would be downsides, but on the other hand, who knows, maybe they'll inspire Fuller to come up with something brilliant to make up for it...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Have you read Yahtzee's hilarious Lando Calrissian Blues, which is a West Wing/Angel/Smallville crossover? Charlie has a big part there, along with Gunn and Pete (I'm sure you can detect the common factor here).

Real life characters can of course turn on you in ways fictional characters usually don't, so by and larger fictionals are safer to love. But you know what I'd love? If either Sorkin or Peter Morgan - who wrote The Deal (about Blair and Brown before Labour came to power) and The Queen - wrote a tv drama about the election. I'd trust them not to demonize Hillary. Or McCain, for that matter.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on Danny/CJ. I'm so enjoying rewatching their scenes together right now. And yes, I've heard that s5 and 6 have their weaknesses...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

You're welcome!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Well, considering that the network had already asked Bryan Fuller to write episode 13 as a season finale (or so lj world told me last week), things aren't looking good, and the man needs to earn his living. But I can understand why you feel torn!

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

Er, but the fish thing is a central part of a storyline about Josh in season five. (The whole storyline, about Josh getting demoted from Deputy Chief of Staff to director of Special Projects, and then his triumphant return is more or less direct from life.)

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

West Wing made the darkest parts of Bush's administration palatable for many, by keeping the light of what government is supposed to be alive.

I'm watching Obama give a press conference RIGHT NOW and I'm reminded that he's given more press conferences already than we've seen in the entire second term of Bush.

[lakrids404.livejournal.com]

I think I know what you mean. There are some commenters there, who seems to be very negative in all their post. There were one post who called for the death of a writer, because he didn't like what the writer did. That made me nearly quite the site, if there had not been not such a backslash against. The community seems to be a little more civilised, or it is just because, that I now know which poster I should not read. And like you, I uses it to see comics that I would never see here in Denmark

Personally I think I am rather forgiven over most comic book writers. As I don't think it cannot be easy to write stories under a strict deadline, and with characters that sometimes has decades of back story and often with conflicting / evolving characterization.

I hope that Heroes gets another superhero comic book writer on their staff, so they can steal/adapt some of the best stories from superheroes comics. Perhaps Bendis? he seems to be good with person driven stories.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

On the bright side, this meant fewer Bush encounters with the English language the world had to listen to, but I know what you mean.

Hey, speaking of press conferences, I don't suppose there is a real life CJ at hand to become the press secretary?

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

He hired his communications director to do it, so it's a Toby.

[thepandorarose.livejournal.com]

Bustfield and Janney had crazy chemistry, it's always a joy to watch them. And seeing Janney on stage in person even more so. They two of them need to get their own show together. Their reunion on Studio 60 was great, although with her playing herself and him playing another character I was sure my TV would explode.

If your ever in the mood for some Danny/CJ fic I wrote under MsM on fanfiction.net. For seasons 5, 6 and 7 I even wrote what Danny was doing when he wasn't on the show (CJ was in it too of course) - I tend to write fan fic when I'm frustrated with what I'm NOT getting on the screen.

[wondygal.livejournal.com]

I think I have, a long time ago, before having actually met some of the characters, so I probably couldn't fully appreciate it. I should check it out again.

That would be BRILLIANT, I would pay so much money for that. If I had any. I want to say Morgan, because Sorkin is so complicated and my favorite scenes in The Queen were the ones with Tony Blair, so I know he can do it, but I would assume he's British? Or maybe that'd actually be an advantage, having a slightly outsider pov, hm. I really need to see The Deal, like I mentioned, I liked his Tony Blair, so a movie about him and Brown sounds fascinating, but I can't find it anywhere here. The internets have let me down on that one.

While I wait for one of them to make this happen, which I guess might take a while, logic tells me my best bet is to wait for the books to start coming out? I'd read a novelized version of this. I guess that particular book might take a while too. Very especially one that doesn't deem one or more parties (no pun intended) the Bad Guys. Oh, the hard life of a lover of narrative. Articles and press conferences will have to do then, for now.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

The Deal (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Deal-Paul-Rhys/dp/B0014MY1H6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1226090473&sr=1-3), starring Michael Sheen as Blair and David Morrissey as Brown. It was Peter Morgan's (and yes, he is indeed British) first collaboration with Stephen Frears, and The Queen is a sort of sequel to it. Here's a review (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2003/sep/16/uk.channel4)

[takethesky87.livejournal.com]

considering that the network had already asked Bryan Fuller to write episode 13 as a season finale
Ah, I didn't know that. That makes his actions more understandable. :) Crossing my fingers for Bryan Fuller on Heroes!

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

Wow, I thought I'd watched every episode, and I didn't remember that. Somehow Josh just seems kinder and gentler to me, but maybe I missed a lot.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

I'm hearing a lot of people talking about rewatching the "West Wing" now, and I might even get on the bandwagon of really watching it for the first time -- though I've seen odd episodes, I never committed to the show largely because of the reality-disconnect moments that you mentioned. (I also have issues with Aaron Sorkin, which include aspects of his writing style as well as searing hatred for almost of the canon relationships he writes, but those haven't really been the main barrier.

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

Sorkin seems to have had a kinder, gentler Josh in mind than the Wells seasons, in which he is quite a difficult person to live with at times. It's not so much a departure from character as it is a different writer's mindset towards their actions, because the Sorkin years certainly do imply that these people are difficult people to live and work with, but his rose-tint on the glory of public work washes out a bit of the harshness.

I still think they went too far with Leo, though.

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

Too far in the rose-tint?

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

I actually think they're far weirder and fucked up people in Sorkin's writing, but his writing makes it easier for people to skim over the subtext. Because he doesn't put great big blinky lights on it.

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

You're definitely more knowledgeable about the writing than I am--I'm not even sure about which writers wrote during which seasons. But now I'm tempted to start watching the whole thing all over again.

[thepandorarose.livejournal.com]

When you meet Danny and CJ you may change your mind about his couples. :) Its the best of the Sorkin and the one to start with. But from episode one. I hope you enjoy it. :)

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, I know enough about the canon ships on West Wing, including Danny/CJ, to know I don't like any of them. But there are other things I'm sure I'll enjoy about the show, so I'm looking forward to it.

[cadesama.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the rec! :D

...and yes, I've heard that Obama has made the man Josh Lyman was modelled after his chief of staff.

And the more I hear about Rahm Emanuel, the more I love him. He sent a rotten fish to a political enemy!

I feel cheered up by the prospect of Bryan Fuller returning to the Heroes writing staff if Pushing Daisies gets cancelled.

I'm, oddly, not a big fan of Bryan Fuller. I don't think him returning to Heroes would be a bad thing, since I think he has a good grasp of how to integrate fantasy into an otherwise typical world, whereas Loeb and Alexander clearly tilted more toward just making a live action comic book (something I have nothing against, but NBC clearly does). A lot of people think of Fuller as the Claire Guy, so the idea of the show needing him back right now mystifies me a bit, since I think they are hitting Claire's story out of the ballpark (and the idea that NBC may want to fic her story freaks me out a lot, even if that's just my brain gone wild).

[thepandorarose.livejournal.com]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. Enjoy the show. Sorkin leaves after season 4 so maybe you'll like that even better. lol. I think since you have an open mind you'd like it. :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't quite see where the searing hatred is coming from (mind you, with my limited WW knowledge, though I now have ordered the later seasons since a friend linked me to a cheap amazon offer!), but then I don't watch this show for the romance. (As far as canon male/female relationships go, I think CJ/Danny is flirty fun, I do like Jed/Abby and have no opinion on Josh/Donna, which seems to be everyone else's favourite, going by the sheer amount of fanfiction. The Kara/Lee of WW?) The most unsympathetic thing I've heard of Sorkin is that he was silly enough to get into a fight at Television Without Pity and to take a cheap shot at Trekkers in his last season, but that made me roll my eyes, nothing more. My main reason for waiting with the rest of The West Wing was really the reality disconnect.

(...trying to figure out whether I have actual shipping tendencies, canonical or not, for this show, I can only come up with some rooting for the true love of Jed and Leo, but then it would be the middle-aged guys for me, would it?)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

And the more I hear about Rahm Emanuel, the more I love him. He sent a rotten fish to a political enemy!

Last night I found a post linking several YouTube clips of his speeches in Congress. Two of which were delightful anti-Cheney rants. So I approve as well.

Agreed that Claire's storyline doesn't need fixing and is fabulous. Where does the Fuller = Claire equation come from?

[cadesama.livejournal.com]

Agreed that Claire's storyline doesn't need fixing and is fabulous. Where does the Fuller = Claire equation come from?

I remember some old S1 interviews about the writing process on the show, where there was talk about each writing "specializing" in a character (even though they said they all wrote each character and that no one was consider the expert of a certain character), and Fuller wrote Claire. I know it was really popular in fandom to blame Claire's S2 plot on the lack of Fuller, and saw many people talking about how he was the only guy who understood how to write teenagers.

I disagree pretty strongly, but I have to wonder if that's part of why people are still looking for Fuller to come back.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Now I'm concerned on Leo's account. I mean, I kow John Spencer died before the show ended, so I assume Leo does, too, but before that, is he written less or more flawed/good?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Also, look (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUhCIYo_jXM)!

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

He goes through a dark period in which he becomes more Machiavellian, perhaps because this is the season (five) in which the other writers became unchained from Sorkin. In retrospect, much of season five reads like writers who could finally make the bare allusions and dip into black without being held to Sorkin's tonal constraints.

They realize their error by the end of the season and begin the radical course change that leads to the campaign narrative.

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

The Kara/Lee of WW

nnaylime did a survey and found as much about a year ago. I found it profoundly depressing because I don't think the two pairings have anything in common. (And I've said as much for the past year.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I feel for you (knowing you ship Donna/Josh). Going by character, I can't see any resemblance, either - though I suppose you could construct a parallel between Donna and Sam (BSG Sam, that is), not Lee, if one must, and Kara and Josh in as much as they can be difficult and have PTSD and... yeah. That's it. Still, let's face it, some people in fandom simply go for the "sexy young male/ sexy young female" pairing, if the text is at all compliant, no matter what these characters are like, so I'm not that surprised that the shippers overlap.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Oh, I wasn't thinking about Jed/Abby as a canon ship but you're right -- I can't resist 'old married couples' in fandom, and they're rarely LITERALLY that.

My aversion to Sorkin's shipping tendencies actually comes from other shows (Sports Night and Studio 60, both of which I actually watched more than WW) but I've projected them onto what I know of West Wing. Which might not be fair, I'll see what happens.

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

I always say I see a lot more Gaius/Caprica!Six in Josh/Donna than Kara/Lee.

[pene.livejournal.com]

someone commented on my story after your rec. thank you! it was delightful to have a new comment on this one. :)

You're welcome

[selenak.livejournal.com]

It's a wonderful story, which I found via Crack_van, and I'm only too glad to spread its fame!