Lost 5.03 Jughead

[selenak]

Latin: it’s not just for Monty Python anymore.



Seriously, how much do I love that the Others all get a crash course in Latin as their code language? Two possibilities: either Richard really is that old, or Jacob is a frustrated Latin teacher who hates it that it’s out of the current curriculum. Or Jacob is Jed Bartlett. Or something. Anyway, I do love the Latin.

Otherwise, I feel smug about being right re: the reason for Richard showing up stalking baby Locke directly after his birth being that he met adult Locke in the 50s. Time-wimey stuff is ever so useful. What I didn’t expect was young soldier Widmore, but that’s because I cherished the theory Charles Widmore was an immortal as well (hence Ben’s inability to kill him) and from the slave trader/ pirate days. It was clear we’d have to see Widmore on the island in the past at some point, given his complaint that Ben “stole” it, but this particular point was unexpected, and I applaud the show.

Now: consider the irony of Locke not shooting Young!Widmore (before finding out who he is) because he considers himself responsible for the Others now. Time really takes care of no paradoxes, huh?

Speaking of John Locke, the other big irony, as big as Jack’s main mission in life now being to return to the island, is that Locke’s main mission this season shapes up to be to get off the island. The exact reverse of what their cherished dream through four seasons was, respectively.
Now: how about those two time-tourists, Daniel Faraday and Desmond Hume, huh? I expect there’s something more to the story of Daniel and Theresa than him using her as a human lab rat, which we’ll find out in due time, but him feeling horribly guilty about something in his past makes sense, given that he cries throughout his introduction scene in s4, plus Charles Widmore financing not just his research but the care for Theresa ensures that Daniel is beholden to him. Meanwhile, Desmond gets points for naming his son “Charlie” (though I guess he’d have had to explain to Penny that this isn’t supposed to honour her father) and for not shutting Penny out, as I was somewhat afraid he would. Sorry, Des.

Charles Widmore: gets to show the human trait of being concerned about his daughter but loses points for telling Desmond about Los Angeles yet utterly failing to mention that the danger Penny is in has a name. Methinks something like “remember Benjamin Linus? He declared a vendetta because I got his daughter killed” would have been far more useful than cryptic general warnings, unless, of course, Widmore secretly wants Desmond to go to Los Angeles (on the principle of “I warned him, so he’s sure to go”) and isn’t above using his daughter as bait.

Daniel’s mother: has another name than her son and thusly probably really is identical with Ben’s partner/boss, as other reviewers have surmised. Considering all the screentime and camera attention the young blonde on the island got, with the dialogue pointing out Daniel stared at her because she reminded him of someone, she might be identical with Mrs. Not Farraday as well.

The US armies hydrogen bomb testing as the trigger for the wars on the island: nice symbolism.

In conclusion: Latin! Ave atque vale, amici.

Comments

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Now: consider the irony of Locke not shooting Young!Widmore (before finding out who he is) because he considers himself responsible for the Others now. Time really takes care of no paradoxes, huh?

It sure does. Although I suppose if he had tried to shoot him, the gun would have jammed.

I loved this reveal, although it has a huge disadvantage for me: I found Widmore immature before, and now I have canon evidence to see him as a snotty (and possibly psychotic) brat.

In contrast I've rediscovered my Locke love, which was a welcome surprise.

I expect there’s something more to the story of Daniel and Theresa than him using her as a human lab rat, which we’ll find out in due time

From the photograph Desmond found, I expected her to be Daniel's lab partner and girlfriend, which would add another layer to her sister's anger. It would also make his declaration of love to Charlotte slightly less adorable, while providing a possible explanation why he is so frantic about her condition. (Although I wanted to kick him for not telling her what was wrong with her. Of course, it is a writing device, but it makes him look awfully condescending in a way that I don't think they want to express in that moment.)

Methinks something like “remember Benjamin Linus? He declared a vendetta because I got his daughter killed” would have been far more useful than cryptic general warnings, unless, of course, Widmore secretly wants Desmond to go to Los Angeles (on the principle of “I warned him, so he’s sure to go”) and isn’t above using his daughter as bait.

Additionally, he could also shove the blame over to Desmond if anything happened to her, since after all, he did warn him. He's certainly twisted enough for that (see also: Alex' death is solely Ben's fault.).

Meanwhile, I'm just clinging to the hope that Penny will simply submit Ben with her Glare Of Awesomeness, should they meet. Or that he is so befuddled by Charlie Two's cuteness that he cannot kill his Mom. (btw, is it me, or are they secretly stocking up a cast for Lost: TNG?)

Latin: that's what I get for taking French. Obviously, I'm no Other material.

(Apologies for any weird spelling mistakes, but one-handed typing is more difficult than I thought.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I loved this reveal, although it has a huge disadvantage for me: I found Widmore immature before, and now I have canon evidence to see him as a snotty (and possibly psychotic) brat.

Well, if Ben is Harry Potter, Widmore is clearly Draco Malfoy, so that fits.:) (Does that make Richard Snape, I wonder, or Dumbledore?)

Although I wanted to kick him for not telling her what was wrong with her. Of course, it is a writing device, but it makes him look awfully condescending in a way that I don't think they want to express in that moment.

Verily. Though you can fanwank it by declaring he doesn't want to admit to Charlotte he knows because his previous girlfriend ended up in a coma thanks to him...

I'm not seriously worried about Penny - she's too much of a symbol of hope on this show. What will make her survive, though, is anyone's guess, but I like both of your theories.*g*

Latin: what I thought was a neat character touch was that Locke recognizes it. (Whether or not he speaks it is still up to debate, but he clearly knows what it is when he hears it even before Juliet replies in kind.) Because on the one hand, it's so not the on the schedule in American high schools in the 60s, and he didn't go to college, but on the other, he's the type to learn it in a do it yourself way.

Incidentally, Juliet was on the island for three years before the show starts. That's not long enough to notice Richard doesn't age simply by powers of observation. Did she hear it from Others gossip, or did Ben tell her, what do you think?

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Well, if Ben is Harry Potter, Widmore is clearly Draco Malfoy, so that fits.:) (Does that make Richard Snape, I wonder, or Dumbledore?)

Or, given that we still don't know if Richard is actually well-meaning, Gellert Grindelwald? (I can totally see Ms. Hawking as both McGonagall or Hermione.)

Latin: what I thought was a neat character touch was that Locke recognizes it. (Whether or not he speaks it is still up to debate, but he clearly knows what it is when he hears it even before Juliet replies in kind.) Because on the one hand, it's so not the on the schedule in American high schools in the 60s, and he didn't go to college, but on the other, he's the type to learn it in a do it yourself way.

Oh, yes, that would fit him very well.

In a more snarky vein, someone in an episode discussion I followed regretted that TPTB didn't have this idea earlier, since it deprived us of Ben condescendingly hurling insults in Latin at the Losties.

Incidentally, what would you say about the Latin accents? There seemed varying opinions as to which of the actors did it well.

Did she hear it from Others gossip, or did Ben tell her, what do you think?

I imagine it was Ben, given that she did seem to be his confidante at least until Goodwin died. (I don't remember, would TOW contradict that? If so, I'm perfectly willing to ignore it.) It just seems like a secret he'd find interesting enough to share.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

In a more snarky vein, someone in an episode discussion I followed regretted that TPTB didn't have this idea earlier, since it deprived us of Ben condescendingly hurling insults in Latin at the Losties.

Good point.. Ah well, he can still insult them in Los Angeles, once he's subjected to the inevitable Jack/Kate melodrama close-up. If that doesn't make him curse in Latin... Though I guess the drawback here is that Jack as a doctor is required to know a minimum of Latin.

Accents: the problem here is that English-speaking folk pronounce it differently than we Germans do anyway, and I have no idea whether there is one generally accepted way to pronounce Latin in the English speaking world or whether Americans and Brits do it differently according to their own accents. Either way, all of them pronounce it differently from the way it's used over here. I was tempted to use the running gag from "Fires of Pompeii" and declare "he's Welsh".

I imagine it was Ben, given that she did seem to be his confidante at least until Goodwin died. (I don't remember, would TOW contradict that? If so, I'm perfectly willing to ignore it.

Not really - though I'm perfectly willing to be in denial about big parts of TOW, too - and yes, it would be the type of secret he'd share; interesting, but not something she could harm him with.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Ah well, he can still insult them in Los Angeles, once he's subjected to the inevitable Jack/Kate melodrama close-up. If that doesn't make him curse in Latin... Though I guess the drawback here is that Jack as a doctor is required to know a minimum of Latin.

Then again, his expressions would probably be priceless.

Accents: I was wondering about that. So far, I've heard Americans, who gave Tom Connolly (the Young Widmore actor, who is either British or Irish) a lot of grief, and someone who said Connolly pronounced it like Classic Latin, as opposed to Mitchell and Matthew Alan. There were also several Italians, to whom it sounded all very wrong. Interesting."He's Welsh!" certainly seems like a good compromise.

For the *headdesk* category: there are again people wondering if Penny is Secretly Evil, because she actually showed some sort of negative emotions, and that Des and her didn't seem like a loving couple anymore. I would bet money that if she had never questioned a thing he said, the same people would have called her a spineless dish rag.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Fannish misogyny, you make me cry. Or perhaps that is stupidity.

On a brighter note, I just realized this episode completely explains why Matthew Abaddon showed up after Locke's fall, too. Young Widmore heard the guy from the future identify himself to Richard as John Locke, after all, so he knew Locke would end up on the island, which meant he could use him to find it.

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

Accents: the problem here is that English-speaking folk pronounce it differently than we Germans do anyway

I had difficulty recognizing it as Latin for that very reason. :-) Though it wasn't quite as weird as hearing Anglos speaking French. (The occasional Swedish, I don't expect any accuracy.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I remember the first time I heard the English pronounciation of Caesar, Cicero, cave canem and so forth. 'Twas a bit funny. :) Which our way of pronouncing Latin probably sounds to the Anglo world, too.

(And hey, I can imagine about Swedish - the didbits of German on American tv always make for wild entertainment.)

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

(And hey, I can imagine about Swedish - the didbits of German on American tv always make for wild entertainment.)

The "Swedes" on Doctor Quinn were the funniest, since they were a) supposed to be speaking their own language, rather than a foreign one, and b) completely incomprehensible. Anya's semi-Swedish on BtVS was easier to understand than what they said!

Edit: QUINN, damn it, not Who! Apparently writing "Who" after "Doctor" is so automatic for me nowadays I don't even notice that I do it...

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

Great review! Just one correction for ya: Now: how about those two time-tourists, Daniel Faraday and Desmond Locke, huh? Hume, not Locke. :-)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

*g* And Anya had the excuse of supposedly talking a millennium ago anyway.

(The Doctor Quinn/Who mix-up: I feel for you. Happens to me, too. Though it made me wonder for a second which Swedes I'd missed! Also, I'm curious how good or bad the Russian of the Russians in Curse of Fenric was...)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh my! *edits*

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

*g* And Anya had the excuse of supposedly talking a millennium ago anyway.

Yeah, exactly. Sweden didn't even exist back then. For all I know, it was accurate Norswedanish of the 10th century!