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selenakFeels like a filler episode, especially in comparison to the last two, but does have some important stuff.
Firstly, sigh. I was hoping that Kate would be kept away from Jack for a while longer. Kate and Sun scenes are ever so much more watchable to me than Kate and Jack scenes. Also, the Sawyer-pines-for-Kate scenes on the island seemed utterly pointless. We already know how he feels about her. If the purpose was bonding with Juliet, well, scenes that contain new elements would have served better. Seems my least favourite triangle manages to annoy me even if they're separated by time and space.
Sayid distrustingly glaring at Ben and not letting him drive was fun, but Sayid still doesn't get any sympathy from me re: the Ben situation. I just aquired the s4 dvds, and one of the specials has the flash forwards in chronological order, not all of them, just the most important ones, and one of those deemed most important was the "Go home, Sayid/ Benjamin, who is next?" exchange from The Shape of things to come. If you ask Benjamin Linus to employ you as an assassin after prolonged exposure to exachtly what kind of ruthless bastard he is, you forfeit the right to righteous indignation. I was wondering whether my utter lack of sympathy re: Sayid was due to the fact I like Ben, but then I tested myself when thinking of Sun, and concluded with relief I'm entirely on Sun's side. (Though I want her to take out Widmore as well.) We have three daughters of manipulative power-driven fathers on this show; Alex dies because of the feud, Penny I think is guaranteed to live because Desmond/Penny are the big symbol of hope on this show, and Sun is the one whom we've already seen take the powerplay back to two of the fathers and is absolutely a good choice to go after the third. Also, another difference to how I feel about Sun and Sayid in this particular regard is that Sun isn't a hypocrite in this situation - she never volunteered to work for Ben.
Speaking of hypocrites: Daniel loses points for being a dumb sexist, or what other explanation is there that he tells Miles about his theory re: the nosebleeds but not Charlotte when both have asked? Re: said theory, though - now we know Charlotte was on the island as a child, and the season starts with a baby of Asian origin, who could be Miles. I was ready to say childhood and then absence made the difference to the Castaways who never were there as children but arrived months ago as adults, but then Juliet started to bleed as well, and she's been on the island for three years, but not as a child. Hm.
Jin showing up alive would have been a greater shock if Daniel Dae Kim hadn't been in the credits, but I suppose that was unavoidable. I'm glad, though, that we learn another important bit of island history through him, to wit, what the hell happened to the French scientists. Danielle's account to Sayid in s1 was not the clearest, and of course given she was the only survivor, we don't know whether they went crazy, or she did, or both, and did she snap before giving birth or after, and why exactly was Alex abducted and how did Ben end up with her if the timeline given in Cabin Fever last season is correct, which would put the "purge" years after Alex' birth, which in turn means when Alex was kidnapped Ben was not yet leader? So, Jin & French scientists is a story threat I'm very much looking forward to. I wish the woman playing young!Danielle looked a bit more like Mira Furlan, though...
Firstly, sigh. I was hoping that Kate would be kept away from Jack for a while longer. Kate and Sun scenes are ever so much more watchable to me than Kate and Jack scenes. Also, the Sawyer-pines-for-Kate scenes on the island seemed utterly pointless. We already know how he feels about her. If the purpose was bonding with Juliet, well, scenes that contain new elements would have served better. Seems my least favourite triangle manages to annoy me even if they're separated by time and space.
Sayid distrustingly glaring at Ben and not letting him drive was fun, but Sayid still doesn't get any sympathy from me re: the Ben situation. I just aquired the s4 dvds, and one of the specials has the flash forwards in chronological order, not all of them, just the most important ones, and one of those deemed most important was the "Go home, Sayid/ Benjamin, who is next?" exchange from The Shape of things to come. If you ask Benjamin Linus to employ you as an assassin after prolonged exposure to exachtly what kind of ruthless bastard he is, you forfeit the right to righteous indignation. I was wondering whether my utter lack of sympathy re: Sayid was due to the fact I like Ben, but then I tested myself when thinking of Sun, and concluded with relief I'm entirely on Sun's side. (Though I want her to take out Widmore as well.) We have three daughters of manipulative power-driven fathers on this show; Alex dies because of the feud, Penny I think is guaranteed to live because Desmond/Penny are the big symbol of hope on this show, and Sun is the one whom we've already seen take the powerplay back to two of the fathers and is absolutely a good choice to go after the third. Also, another difference to how I feel about Sun and Sayid in this particular regard is that Sun isn't a hypocrite in this situation - she never volunteered to work for Ben.
Speaking of hypocrites: Daniel loses points for being a dumb sexist, or what other explanation is there that he tells Miles about his theory re: the nosebleeds but not Charlotte when both have asked? Re: said theory, though - now we know Charlotte was on the island as a child, and the season starts with a baby of Asian origin, who could be Miles. I was ready to say childhood and then absence made the difference to the Castaways who never were there as children but arrived months ago as adults, but then Juliet started to bleed as well, and she's been on the island for three years, but not as a child. Hm.
Jin showing up alive would have been a greater shock if Daniel Dae Kim hadn't been in the credits, but I suppose that was unavoidable. I'm glad, though, that we learn another important bit of island history through him, to wit, what the hell happened to the French scientists. Danielle's account to Sayid in s1 was not the clearest, and of course given she was the only survivor, we don't know whether they went crazy, or she did, or both, and did she snap before giving birth or after, and why exactly was Alex abducted and how did Ben end up with her if the timeline given in Cabin Fever last season is correct, which would put the "purge" years after Alex' birth, which in turn means when Alex was kidnapped Ben was not yet leader? So, Jin & French scientists is a story threat I'm very much looking forward to. I wish the woman playing young!Danielle looked a bit more like Mira Furlan, though...
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Date: 2009-02-05 06:38 pm (UTC)Sayid: so totally deserves what he is reaping here at the moment, but I am interested if he just decided to stop being Ben's lackey after a while, or if there was a specific point that convinced him Ben probably didn't have his best interest at heart. (I also think the goons who went after him were sent by Ben - why else would they just shoot him with tranquilizers?)
Sun: I'm very much hoping she is indeed playing everybody. I do however think that Widmore is playing her, too, since, if he can't kill Ben, Sun shouldn't be able to, either, should she?
Daniel: I think we are meant to read it as concern/denial because he doesn't want to admit to himself that another of his girlfriends is headed for a very dark future (Dan - the new Sayid where love is concerned?). I still think it comes across as condescending. I also could have lived without the jetlag nonsense he gave Juliet, but her response saved that a bit.
I was ready to say childhood and then absence made the difference to the Castaways who never were there as children but arrived months ago as adults, but then Juliet started to bleed as well, and she's been on the island for three years, but not as a child. Hm.
I thought it was length of stay - if Miles and Charlotte were both born there, and he stayed for four and she for six or seven years, it would explain how he can be older than she is, and still not remember the island, like she apparently does, and why his nosebleed started quite a bit later.
Young Danielle: looks nothing like Furlan, but her French is better.
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Date: 2009-02-05 07:01 pm (UTC)Oh, I want to know that, too. Last week one commentator to my post suggested the breaking point might have been Ben ordering him to kill Penny, but after pondering it, I think that's unlikely for three reasons:
1) Penny was supposed to be the final blow, right? Also, since Desmond, until meeting with Daddy Charles, had no idea there was any danger to Penny, presumably they didn't encounter trouble for three years, which probabnly means Ben hasn't managed to track them down yet, let alone send anyone after them.
2) Ben isn't stupid. "Kill Penny" isn't something you can sell to Sayid as either righteous vengeance or self preservation, so I'd be very surprised if he wasn't planning to do it himself.
3) Say Ben out of sheer hubris did make the mistake of telling Sayid to kill Penny (or that he planned on doing that in the end), and this was what shocked Sayid out of working for him. Why the hell is Ben still alive? I mean, if you're a highly skilled assassin and you just found out that the most dangerous man you know plans on ending the life of a sweet innocent woman who happens to be your old island buddy's One True Love, you do - what? Just say goodbye, and no hard feelings, boss?
Sun: I'm very much hoping she is indeed playing everybody. I do however think that Widmore is playing her, too, since, if he can't kill Ben, Sun shouldn't be able to, either, should she?
Good question. Though we don't know for sure Widmore can't. He ordered Keamy to take Ben prisoner alive, true, which would argue that whatever prevents Ben from being able to kill Widmore holds true for the reverse, but the show did not say so outright. (I.e. when Ben said "we both know I can't", there was no "any more than you can kill me".) So theoretically, Widmore might have had another reason to want Ben prisoner alive rather then dead back in s4. Also, we do know Ben didn't catch the island case of immortality or even superfast healing, due to his cancer and need for Jack to operate same. Which means he's definitely killable in principle. Perhaps Widmore wants to test the waters, and if Sun can kill Ben, fine, if she can't, well, it's not like he has any attachment to Sun?
I thought it was length of stay - if Miles and Charlotte were both born there, and he stayed for four and she for six or seven years, it would explain how he can be older than she is, and still not remember the island, like she apparently does, and why his nosebleed started quite a bit later.
Okay, if it's length of stay, and your theory about Miles and Charlotte's times on the island is right, it would explain why Juliet with her three years was next. Which means, of course, that any of the castaways could be the next and Daniel last. Or perhaps Locke, considering he has the fast track to island healing still booked. (Latest example: being able to walk just fine after being shot perhaps a day or so in subjective time ago.)
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Date: 2009-02-05 08:03 pm (UTC)I didn't think she was supposed to be the final blow, as much as that Widmore was supposed to see her die, since Ben wanted to recreate the feeling for him. But maybe I've interpreted that too literally. As for Ben not finding them, guess not, although seeing that Charlie was born in the Philippines and they seemed to be somewhere in the Mediterranean when Desmond got Dan's IM they were probably jumping around too much to be effectively tracked (which makes sense given that Penny seemed awfully scared of her father).
I mean, if you're a highly skilled assassin and you just found out that the most dangerous man you know plans on ending the life of a sweet innocent woman who happens to be your old island buddy's One True Love, you do - what? Just say goodbye, and no hard feelings, boss?
Not to mention the Nadia parallels. Who is another reason why Ben wouldn't be stupid enough to involve Sayid in this. No, I agree, it has to be 2.)
Perhaps Widmore wants to test the waters, and if Sun can kill Ben, fine, if she can't, well, it's not like he has any attachment to Sun?
That would of course make sense. And getting rid of Sun would also take out another person who knows about the island, which still should be high on Widmore's priority list.
With all the time jumping going on, I wonder if Ben knows he can't kill Widmore because he knows Widmore is still alive at a certain point in the future/past.
Which means, of course, that any of the castaways could be the next and Daniel last.
Good thing then that they're all regulars, TPTB can't very well kill all of them before the rest gets back. We know that Locke makes it, of course, given that he has met at least Kate, Hurley and Jack off-island.
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Date: 2009-02-05 08:14 pm (UTC)With all the time jumping going on, I wonder if Ben knows he can't kill Widmore because he knows Widmore is still alive at a certain point in the future/past.
That would mean there was time jumping before Ben moved the island, wouldn't it? From Ben's pov, I mean. But even if, say, a younger Ben at one point met an older Widmore (maybe in pursuit of the O6), and thus knows Widmore getst o be at least 70 or something like that, it would explain the "and we both know I can't kill you" phrasing, because obviously current day!Widmore hasn't made it back to the island yet.
We know that Locke makes it, of course, given that he has met at least Kate, Hurley and Jack off-island.
And Waaaaaalt. Don't forget Walt. I'd say that was just a neat continuity nod to Locke's s1 friendship with him and wasn't supposed to be more, but in the "Most important flash forwards" collection on the s4 dvds they included teenage Walt telling Hurley "but you know who has been visiting me? Jeremy Bentham". Which makes me guess we'll see that scene as a flashback at some point.
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Date: 2009-02-05 08:59 pm (UTC)Seeing that there were quite a few fans who didn't get it - and who've since started to ponder that little Charlie Hume might somehow become his own grandfather, making the Bio Prüfungskurs student in me writhe in agony - I'm guessing, no. (Of course, nobody would have ever dared to call Widmore Charlie. The first person who tried probably got their hand hacked off.)
Oh, and I think one of the reasons why Penny isn't keen on seeing her father again might be that he's just the type to think he'd best suited to raise a grandSON...
"I might be a little megalomaniac and a tad too violent, but at least I wouldn't raise him on a boat!"
That would mean there was time jumping before Ben moved the island, wouldn't it? From Ben's pov, I mean. But even if, say, a younger Ben at one point met an older Widmore (maybe in pursuit of the O6), and thus knows Widmore getst o be at least 70 or something like that, it would explain the "and we both know I can't kill you" phrasing, because obviously current day!Widmore hasn't made it back to the island yet.
Damn, you're right! *buries cool idea*
And Waaaaaalt. Don't forget Walt.
Yes, how could I forget him. Especially now that I've finally seen the scene which sparked that name. (I guess I wasn't really supposed to giggle?) And yeah, a flashback of that would be awesome.
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Date: 2009-02-06 07:10 am (UTC)Oh, and I forgot to tell you what my current theory about Sayid's reason for quitting Ben's services is: he found out Ben lied to him about Nadia having been killed by Widmore & Co. Not that Ben killed her himself (the show took care to show us he arrived in 2005 after Nadia died, not before, plus otherwise they'd have to justify why Ben is still alive), but when he spotted grieving widower!Sayid on tv as seen in The Shape of things to come, he knew he had a golden opportunity if he could make it seem like Nadia's death wasn't an accident. Because when you think about it, what evidence did Ben give Sayid? A photo of a guy which he said was taken near to where Nadia died. Then said guy pursues Ben who has been following him, and Sayid, without even questioning (or "questioning") the man shoots him. For all he knows, the next words out of the guy's mouth could have been "Charles Who? And why are you stalking me, weird-eyed stranger?"
So if Sayid later finds out his entire participation in Ben's war against Widmore is based on a falsehood via definite proof Nadia's death had just been a stupid accident, it would be more than enough reason for quitting in a bad mood, but also explain why he doesn't kill Ben on sight (because Ben while exploiting him has had nothing to do with Nadia's death, either, hasn't told him about any Penny-related plans, and the people he did send Ben after, like Elsa, actually were criminals themselves).
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Date: 2009-02-06 08:51 am (UTC)Sayid: sounds plausible, and would be pretty ironic.