This and that

[selenak]

Relearned lesson of the day: no matter how much you want to read more Sarah Connor Chronicles discussion, do not go to Television Without Pity. (Seriously. I was somewhat stunned to discover the Sarah hatred there, and I shouldn't have been. It's TWOP; when do they ever miss out on a chance to hate prominent female characters, especially show leads?) On the bright side of things, the last episode caused a lot more lj reviews than usual which makes me happy, for lj world is quite different from forum world.

I also have another speculation re: the season finale, based on the (non-literal) siblings the show presents us with: . The season 2 opener at its grand climax had John (Connor) return Cameron's chip to her, and a gun, thus basically risking his own as well as his mother's and Derek's lives in order to save Cameron's; choosing a machine over humans. We even got the visual of John and Cameron on one side, and Sarah and Derek on the other, divided by fire. John and Cameron are many things to each other, but the verbal description given most often through two seasons are "brother and sister" (the last time by Riley, desperately repeating "you're his sister" to Cameron).

Now consider John Henry and Savannah, also coded as brother and sister by the show ever since Dr. Sherman was brought in to help both. They, too, have formed an increasingly strong bond. Catherine Weaver has just stated that while Savannah's survival might depend on John Henry, John Henry's does not depend on Savannah; if push comes to shove, Savannah is expendable, but John Henry is not. This, however, does not seem to be how John Henry sees it. Considering all the paralleling and contrasting between the two Johns through the season, I predict the finale will offer a situation where John Henry chooses to save Savannah's life at risk (and possibly expense) of his own, and Catherine Weaver's, i.e. choosing the human over the machines.

In news of shows that aren't The Sarah Connor Chronicles, this shared interview of David Tennant and Russel T Davies - which is spoiler-free - made me grin a lot, especially the part where RTD confides his one unfulfilled fanboy dream (writing a DW/ Star Trek crossover), and the part where he and DT discuss Matt Smith's hair (DT: "Well, so’s the rest of the country. We may as well join in.") Oh, and Our David firmly denies the tabloid stories of crazy fans dressed up and interrupting performances ("Well, I suppose there were people who wouldn’t have necessarily come to see the RSC do Hamlet. But there was never a sense that people were there for the wrong reasons. There was not anybody dressed up as a Cyberman in the front row. I’m not suggesting Doctor Who didn’t sell a few tickets, but. . . Who fans are clever people.") Take that, fan-dissing tabloids. I'm really looking forward to the next weekend and Planet of the Dead. Bring on Dune the desert planet, I say.

Lastly, and again moving to another fandom, I was tickled to bits to discover Marvel made it canon that Tony Stark being a woman would have prevented wars, civil and Skrull alive, by virtue of this apparantly causing Steve Rogers to propose to him/her. Marvel: where genderswap saves the day (at least in AUs.) As other people said, this clearly means Reed Richards (who made that interesting discovery) needs to travel back in time and play Yenta. If Skynet can do it, Richards, so can you!

Comments

[rheanna27.livejournal.com]

It's TWOP; when do they ever miss out on a chance to hate prominent female characters, especially show leads?

I haven't been anywhere near TWOP for years; I gave up on them when I was in Angel fandom. The recappers seemed to loathe the shows they were writing about, and the tone of the whole place was just nasty.

[andraste]

I’m not suggesting Doctor Who didn’t sell a few tickets, but. . . Who fans are clever people.

*draws sparkly hearts around David Tennant*

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I've given in and stopped fighting against that impulse, too. Damn it, Tennant. You've picked absolutely the right time to move on, but I'm going to miss you and your fanboy behind the scenes ways.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I was there the last time at the start of Dexter's second season - same reason as now, there wasn't that much lj discussion, and I wanted more - and ran away again for the same reason: the viciousness of the tone, particularly against female characters.

[wondygal.livejournal.com]

WAIT, I'M CONFUSED. How many specials are we getting? The article says four this year, I've seen people saying it was two (next weekend and new year's?) and I need to know so I can brace myself.

Aw, he mentions his fanboy glee upon meeting Elisabeth Sladen again! Bless you, Tennant.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

His fannish crush on Elisabeth Sladen never gets old. Number of specials: I know there are two more after next weekend's, but whether the two others will both be broadcast this year or one this year, one early next year before s5, I don't know anymore than you do.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

I think there are four this year: one next weekend, one in September, and two at Christmas.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

I gather the SCC producer had some harsh words on his blog for fans who complained about the number of Sarah-centric episodes and demanded more Hot Cameron Action.

[kathyh]

Relearned lesson of the day: no matter how much you want to read more Sarah Connor Chronicles discussion, do not go to Television Without Pity.

How many times have I told you not to go near TWOP. Wags virtual finger at you :)

Oh, DT how I do love you! Speaking of DT have you seen this. I believe at least part of the Jonathan Ross Show is available as podcast and the whole show is on the iPlayer so you should be able to listen to it. The thought of DT and CT together again just fills me with glee :)

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I really hated what everyone said about Deb and haven't been back to look since.

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

I'm counting it as three, since the Christmas one seems to be a two-parter.

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

Yeah, TWOP, boy I don't know.

Odd that the mainstream media has yet to pick up on the mutual love for Shakespeare and science fiction. It isn't exactly a new phenomena?

That scan? Is amazing. HOLY FUCK. I do wish 'Natasha Stark' had thought to do wedding-appropriate armor though.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

So I heard. Though the viciousness I saw during my brief wandering to TWOP came from people who wanted The Derek Reese Diaries instead of the Sarah Connor Chronicles. Choice quote: "I never rooted for cancer before, but now I hope Sarah has it and dies of it."

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Hooray! Hopefully it will be available for download - several BBC audio programs were before, legitimately, I mean.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

No kidding. Lila excepted, the women on this show have been written wonderfully well, especially Deb, and then to find rubbish like that - bah.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I know. Guys (and girls) of the media, where were you in the 70s when Gareth Thomas was at the RSC and at Blake's 7?

Scan: ah, but if "Natasha Stark" had gone through the Extremis stage at the point of that wedding, she could vary the armor at will and probably just arranged this look for the wedding photo.*g* Anyway, I thought at least Bendis and Cage shipped them before, and probably Quesada, but now it's clear that the entire writing staff is behind it. *nods solemnly*

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

"The Conscience of the King"? Patrick Stewart, Ian McKellan? *shakes her head*

How nice of her to make it easier for the 'shoopers.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

... there are people who want Derek to be the central character? Although he has had a bit more interest to him this year.

I was expecting that sort of response at the end of S1 if they went to the Sarah/Derek place I was half expecting and she didn't devote her entire existence to making him feel loved and valued, but I see it happened without shippiness.

[neutralalienist.livejournal.com]

...How do people hate Sarah Connor?

It just. It doesn't compute.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Yeah, TWOP's hatred of strong women is... vicious and obvious.

I really like your theory -- I loved seeing John Henry's response to Savannah in danger. He was definitely concerned about her.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Are there ever. We'll talk again on the subject once you've seen 2.21.

Yes, it happened anyway; according to TWOP, "the Connors treated Derek like dirt the entire season". Mind you, I suspect some of it IS actually disgruntled shippiness, i.e. people ended season 1 expecting Sarah/Derek and got Derek/Jesse instead, and Derek just didn't get to be pater familias.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I know. I mean, I can understand having other favourites - that's individual response - but hating Sarah Connor? I got the hell out of there.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

He was, and didn't quite know how to handle it. It would make such a great opening and closing parallel, and if they don't end the season with John Henry blown up or evil, it might be the one thing to convince John, if not Sarah, that he's not going to become Skynet (as they know it) - seeing him save the life of a little girl in a situation where he has to believe he'll die himself. This is something no AI so far was capable of if she or he hasn't been programmed to do so. (Cameron being a question mark here as we don't know for sure how much self-determination she has post the season 2 opener, though I'd say she acts out of free will now; still, she started on the protecting-John-road via programming.)

[neutralalienist.livejournal.com]

It's her show. Because she is awesome. Seriously, people.

I stopped reading the Angel reviews because the reviewer clearly hated the show, and in House the Cameron hate was overwhelming. I found her annoying sometimes but, guys, she did NOT rape your puppy.

...I can just imagine the bashing Buffy got. It's bad enough on LJ.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Like I said, my previous last occasion (about one and a half years ago) was with the Dexter forum, where there was Deb hate and Rita hate (in early s2), and I was confounded. I never braved either the Angel or the Buffy forums.

Sarah: one of these days (to wit, probably after the finale) I'm going to write how this show gave us a believable adult heroine as its central character (and as much as I'm curious about Sarah's earlier pre T2 and post T1 years, and adored the recent flashbacks to her and child John in the jungle, I'm really happy Friedman & Co. chose this time frame - Sarah in her mid to late 30s (if she was 18 in T1) - for her; who is not desexualized but also not defined through her love life; and who is far from the only fleshed out female character around. Seriously, good as Cromartie was as an s1 antagonist, Weaver as the other mother with two children was an inspired choice, and Cameron of course - i.e. making the bodyguard Terminator female, not male - continues to be an asset, and I know they were controversial, but even the third plot thread, Riley and Jesse, gave us more female characters.

[neutralalienist.livejournal.com]

The DW forums seemed to be an exception, IIRC, though there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth when Rose left. I dared not check for the opinion on Martha. Jacob had long since disappeared up his own arse anyway.

I need to catch up on the second season, but I'm glad to know they've continued with everything that's brilliant about the show. People watching who hate all the women really...just...I can't - what.

RTD & DT

[shezan.livejournal.com]

I love them! I love them to bits!

There were even complaints about your colleague John Barrowman on the radio, getting his penis out.

DT It’s never in.

RTD That’s just normal!

DT (As if the world's gone mad) It was on the radio.

And all the fannish stuff! Bless!

[shezan.livejournal.com]

BTW, Sachsgate was truly despicable (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1080621/Russell-Brand-Jonathan-Ross-face-prosecution-obscene-air-phone-calls-Fawlty-Towers-actor-78.html). I will usually root for the Beeb (heck, it's being paying me for two decades) but it doesn't mean it should get a free pass for everything.

[adn-heming.livejournal.com]

Lastly, and again moving to another fandom, I was tickled to bits to discover Marvel made it canon that Tony Stark being a woman would have prevented wars, civil and Skrull alive, by virtue of this apparantly causing Steve Rogers to propose to him/her.
I should be squeeing over this, but I find myself troubled instead by the idea that romantic love solves everything, where filial love just won't do. There's a line from the TM rpg, where Steve, finding out that he and Tony loved each other, wondered whether they should have done it sooner. Tony tells Steve that that cheapened their friendship. They already loved each other, albeit in a filial sense. Their principles were still more important than their personal relationship with the other.

And yeah, that's kind of how I feel. Their friendship and their brotherhood didn't stop Tony and Steve from fighting. Why should romantic love between Tony (albeit girl! Tony) and Steve result in a different outcome?

[20thcenturyvole.livejournal.com]

It's getting harder and harder to imagine the Marvel writers are doing this kind of thing by accident - I mean, between this and the What If? Civil War and the actual Civil War, it seems like the only way the Marvel universe can be happy is if Iron Man and Captain America are basically being the mommy and daddy of the Avengers. When they're happy and working in harmony to raise the kids train the inexperienced, everything is a sunshiney crime-fighting utopia. When they're fighting, everything is DOOMED.

I just love that it explicitely says, "And in this universe, everything was perfect because Steve married Girl!Tony and everyone lived happily ever after." Curse you, tricky heteronormative gender barrier! Why tease us so?

[blpurdom.livejournal.com]

I'd never even heard of TWOP until it was mentioned on an episode of My Name is Earl, and after the first time I checked it out (I don't even remember what show I was reading about--possibly Buffy) I ran screaming into the night and haven't been back since. Clearly I'm not missing anything.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh, were this a fanfic - or even a genuine arc, instead of a one shot discovery by Reed - I would critisize it for this very reason. (Also, it made me reread Casualties of War, which is a choice example of how the immense affection between them, call that affection what you will, does not prevent the ideological divide.) But probably because it's just one panel thing, it amused me as a wink to the fans instead. (And didn't Marvel do an issue long "What if... Civil War" where Tony and Steve did manage to work it out - i.e. prevented the civil war - without sex anyway?)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

*makes very serious face* Ah, but are they saying Steve is so resolutely heterosexual that he didn't realise he should have proposed anyway, or are they saying Tony being a woman would have improved his/her character, I ask you?

:) And yes, the writing staff is long beyond plausible deniability where these two are concerned.

Re: RTD & DT

[selenak.livejournal.com]

That interview must have been such fun for the interviewer. *envies*

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Definitely not!

[alara-r.livejournal.com]

heh. I actually wrote "In Love and War" to demonstrate that genderswap *doesn't* necessarily solve anything (it's a story with a female Xavier in which Xavier and Magneto got married, had kids, and then when things went seriously south and Mags started going insane and ranting about dominating humanity, they got into an argument, Mags hit "Charlotte", and having grown up with watching her mother be abused by Kurt Marko she panicked and mind-wiped him. Seven years later he comes back as Magneto and starts beating on the X-Men. A year after that he remembers enough to remember that he was her husband and her kids are his as well. This... does not lead to fluff and happy reunions. :-))

Tony and Steve (or, I guess, Natasha and Steve) might have avoided going all Civil War-ish because they actually live together in a socially accepted relationship where everyone, including the media, knows they are partners, and they are both sufficiently media savvy that this would put *enormous* pressure on both of them to work out any ideological differences privately, without starting fisticuffs in public. Also, Steve cannot hit his wife (hitting your wife has an *enormously* different social context to hitting your male teammate, even if you're sleeping with him), so in a fight Natasha wins 100% of the time, except that knowing this, she knows it's unfair, so she would only attack him if she felt she had no choice.

It's not really the smex that saves them from Civil War, it's the public pressure on both of them to act like a married couple. In other words, legalizing gay marriage *also* saves from Civil War without requiring genderswap. :-)

(I have not read the issue in question. I am totally making this shit up. :-))

[adn-heming.livejournal.com]

It's not really the smex that saves them from Civil War, it's the public pressure on both of them to act like a married couple. In other words, legalizing gay marriage *also* saves from Civil War without requiring genderswap. :-)

This interpretation I can definitely buy---and would definitely like to read someday. And am greatly intrigued by your politicking! Natasha/Steve!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

But you make it up and reason it brilliantly! *buys into Alara-reasoned Natasha/Steve and ensuing lack of Civil War completely*