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selenak: (JohnRygel2)
[personal profile] selenak
My earlier post today left me in something of a silly mood. And besides, the following was fun. So, love and devotion to all shows concerned and their respective creators taken as a given, I present to you:

1) Buffy the Vampire Slayer as written by JMS

First of all, the show has another title. It's called Sunnydale. Secondly, the leading character isn't Buffy. It's Jander Mavelle Sarris. Unfortunately, the network thinks the actor playing him isn't good enough, so Jander Sarris gets replaced by Jiley Sinn in the second season.

There is an attraction between Jander and Buffy, and later a love story between Jiley and Buffy, but this is all very subordinate to the show's politics, which revolves around Mayor Wilkins-Clark slowly but surely changing Sunnydale into a fascist dictatorship through both his pact with extremely powerful demons and his cronies. There are a lot of thoroughly planned arcs going on. At first, TPTB appear to be on the side of Our Heroes to counteract Wilkins-Clark's allies; however, after their representative Giles is killed surprisingly by the intermediary between the demons and Wilkins-Clark, Mr. Morden-Rayne, the replacement, Giles II. ("We are all Giles") reveals their true colours - they're just as ruthless in their methods as the demons. In the end, Jiley manages to drive them both the hell out of Sunnydale, but at a price concerning his life-expectancy.

The true heart of the show, however, is the relationship between arch-enemies Jenny Calendar and Darla. Jenny's family of gypsies was cruelly terrorized by Darla and her tribe of vampires for centuries until the Fangsome Foursome lost their drive with the ensoulment curse the gyspies put on all four members. At the start of the show, Jenny is revelling in her power newfound power, while Darla has become one weary, cynical ensouled vampire; Jander and Buffy live in the illusion of creating peace between them. Then, Darla's pact with the Uberdemons through Mr. Morden-Rayne gives her the upper hand in season 2, and the vampires again subjugate the gyspies in a ruthless, bloody manner. Jenny, however is given asylum by Buffy and Jiley and transforms into a prophet after hitting rock bottom in season 3 when assaulting Darla with a mind-rape spell. In the most stunning twist of all, Jenny and Darla become reluctant allies when Darla realizes the utterly insane Angelus plans to let all other supernatural creatues (save the Uberdemons) die to ensure his ascension to Hellgod-dom...

When it turns out that Tara, the witch Jiley's second-in-command Willowa fell in love with, had a secondary personality implanted in her by her old coven ("The Coven is Mother, The Coven is Father"), parts of whom are in league with the Uberdemons and Wilkins-Clark, the fans shed tears, but nobody accuses anybody of homophobia. After all, we didn't even see Tara and Willowa kiss and there are some viewers who missed their romance completely.

Sunnydale is a show admired for many things, especially its multiple interweaving arcs and ability to balance the huge ensemble's individual storylines, but there are very few successful comedy episodes. There is also next to no sexual subtext, and the on-screen romances are chaste in a manner reminding one of a medieval epic.

2) Babylon 5 as written by Joss Whedon (and his staff)
This show has arcs planned for one or two years ahead, but there is a lot of improvisation going on, some of which works, and some which doesn't. It is an ensemble series, but there is no question who the main character is: Delenn, the Chosen One. (The one Minbari in all the galaxy who...)

While Delenn in the first season gets wooed by her faithful friend and sidekick Lennier, she never sees him as more than a brother. Her first love, the brooding Jeffrey Sinclair, still haunted by his days as the Scourge of Minbar, gets brainwashed by the Psi Corps into his old self again in the crucial season 2 two-parter in which they have sex with each other for the first time. Ultimately, Delenn has to send Jeff to hell the distant past to save the galaxy; seconds before she does, the mind wipe is undone, but it is too late to undo the procedure. Jeff, however, gets his own spin-off, called In Valen's Name.

As she struggles on in her mission to protect the galaxy from evil while being increasingly less sure about her own nature and the definiton of good, Delenn's love life continues to suck. There's the valiant John Sheridan whom she believes to be the save choice after the disaster with Jeff, but John, feeling she doesn't truly love him, takes to flings with Centauri women and ultimately leaves altogether. After Delenn sacrificed herself at Z'ha'dum, she gets resurrected by her friends, Ivanova and Lennier, but the procedure traumatized her for good. Since the Minbari believe in souls getting reborn, not forced back into a dead body, she feels herself to be a deeply unnatural thing and starts a torrid affair with her old enemy Neroon, who fell first in lust and then in love with her the previous season...

Other storylines include:
- Susan Ivanova going from tech-savvy first officer to powerful P12 telepath who almost destroys the station in her wild grief when her lover, Talia Winters, is killed. (This causes an uproar and lots of accusations of homophobia, only mildly placated when fans see Ivanova gets paired with another woman, Lyta Alexander, the following season.)

- the compelling fall and redemption of Delenn's fellow Chosen One, Miss Morden, who after a time on the spin-off in the past returns to fight at Delenn's side in the show's finale

- the appearance of Delenn's little sister Elizabeth who in reality is the key to all dimensions, given human/Minbari form by the Grey Council to protect her from the rampaging Shadow Queen Glory.

Babylon 5 is a show famed for its wit, emotional twists and turns and ability to do both comedic and dramatic episodes; it is, however, lacking in politics and more than a superficial presentation of the various cultures in the galaxy it's set in. Let's face it, they might have had a musical episode (though the revelation that Lennier caused it due to anxiety over his engagement to Vira was never that convincing), not to mention a thing for kinky sex (we'll never forget the image of chained-up-Jeff Sinclair getting used as an S/M toy by AU! Ivanova in the episode where the Great Machine showed us what Babylon 5 would look like if Delenn hadn't arrived there), but there is a severe lack of older characters (only one mentor-type around, and Kosh's importance decreased througout the seasons), and as mentioned earlier, some of the improvisations with the year-long storyarcs just didn't work.

3) Farscape as written by Ira Behr, Robert Wolfe and Ron Moore (plus assorted fellow scribes)
This show's leading man, Commander (later Captain) John Crichton, takes a back seat in terms of screen time and dominance when compared to the other characters, though he is revealed to be the son of one of the Ancient Ones in the show's last season, and ends up as a wormhole alien himself.

Farscape excels at its presentation of alien cultures and their politics. The Sebacean-Scarran conflict provides a crucial background for the development of Officer Aeryn Sun from hardened fighter to still tough but also emotionally open Commander of Moya, a position she takes when Crichton ends up with the Ancients. Her relationships with both Crais and the shape-shifting Pilot of Moya are fan favourites, and the 'shipper wars are something to behold. Unfortunately, the writers decide to devolve Crais from three-dimensional ambiguious character to one-dimensional "I wanna destroy the galaxy!" mad villain, culminating in an finale in which he, possessed by the Wraith Drens, the enemies of the Ancients, dukes it out with Crichton and ends up in flames.

On the other hand, one of the intriguing guest characters of the show, Scorpius the Tailor, with a past as a spy with an expertise in interrogation and torture, retains his ambiguity. Why, the season 6 episode in which Crichton enlists him to get the Nebari to join the war effort by any means necessary, culminating in Crichton covering up a murder which Scorpius committed, is among the best the show ever did.

The so-called "Hynerian" episodes, centring on Rygel, and later his extended family, separate fans in love/hate camps. In any case, nobody can deny that the Hynerian culture was given as much detail by the writers as the Lwaxan did, and it is something of an irony to reflect that Rygel arguably had more romantic relationships than any other male on the show.

4) DS9 as written by David Kemper, Rockne O'Bannon, Justin Monjo (and assorted fellow scribes)
A wild, inventive show, firmly centred around space jock Ben Sisko who remains our point of view character throughout the series. His angst-ridden love affair with Kira Nerys is loved by the majority of the fandom, although there are complaints that by the last season, it was beginning to get old, not to mention bad for Kira's character.

Sisko's other significant relationship is with his arch-nemesis Dukat, and has a rather explicit homoerotic subtext ever since Dukat got his hands on Ben (literally) and tortured him for wormhole information. Mind you, as we later learn about Dukat's background, his childhood as a Cardassian/Founder hybrid, his desperate drive to save the Cardassians from annihilation by the Dominion, sympathies begin to shift. Slashers are also fond of Dukat's sidekick Damar who at one point pretends to betray him (though in reality he's going undercover to spy for Dukat) and presents him on a chain to Commandant Weyouna, who replaces Dukat in his position.

Openly bisexual Jadzia is a late season 1 addition quickly becoming a favourite of the fans; her affair with the valiant warrior Worf ends badly when Worf proposes and Jadzia, in a panic, seduces his son Alexander to put an end to this. After a period of enstrangement, Jadzia and Worf make up, on her terms, too. Unfortunately, though, Jadzia's later season development fades in the background in favour of the Sisko/Kira angst, and her sudden new prophetic abilities are never followed through.

Quark progresses from cynical sell-out to, well, cynical sell-out with the occasional soft spot. Fans are still traumatized by the one episode which shows us Ferengi sex. Otoh, the show's creators did let him smooch Sisko repeatedly.

Sisko starts out trusting the wormhole aliens who enlist him for their cause in season 1, but quickly gets to a thanks-but-no-thanks position in regards to them as their "gifts" make him the galaxy's most hunted man...

Date: 2004-01-12 08:04 am (UTC)
kernezelda: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kernezelda
My lord. This is nearly wrecking my professional exterior here at work. At least I face away from anyone else so they can't see me grinning like a loon.

Date: 2004-01-12 08:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] misshallelujah.livejournal.com
You are SO lucky there wasn't anything around me harder than a pillow, or else you'd soon find a lawyer's letter in your mailbox demanding reparation and payment of the hospital bills for the treatment of my severe head concussion :)

Nice, verrry nice. Even though it had me gutting myself with an invisible knife every now and then. Lay off the Shadow Slayer abuse, will you! The poor girl's been through enough in canon already...

her affair with the valiant warrior D'Argo ends badly when D'Argo proposes and Jadzia, in a panic, seduces his son Alexander to put an end to this.

Worf. I'm sure you meant Worf. :)

Date: 2004-01-12 08:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skywaterblue.livejournal.com
...when FANDOM collides! Hahahaha. Oh, gods. What a great laugh.

I have to admit, I'd watch Sunnydale.

Date: 2004-01-12 08:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
...serves you write for making ever more seductive icons.*g*

Thanks!

Date: 2004-01-12 08:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
I edited the Worf/D'Argo typo. (You were right, of course.)

Delenn the Shadow Slayer does have a nice ring to it, though, doesn't it?

Thanks *g*

Date: 2004-01-12 08:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
I have to admit, I'd watch all of 'em...

Re: Thanks!

Date: 2004-01-12 08:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] misshallelujah.livejournal.com
Very much. :)
Even though the mere idea of Delenn/Neroon makes my stomach turn. Delenn/Morann, on the other hand... now we're talking ;)

well Neroon...

Date: 2004-01-12 08:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
...does die for her (and all Minbari), taking her place and burning in fire no less.*g* On the actual show, I mean. And he's got a good voice.

(Just kidding. Though I did enjoy the scenes with the two of them in the fourth season.)

Date: 2004-01-12 09:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ffutures.livejournal.com
Rozk pointed me at this, and it's wonderful.

For your encore, please, please, please Joss Wheedon's West Wing and Aaron Sorkin's Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Date: 2004-01-12 10:26 am (UTC)
cofax7: climbing on an abbey wall  (Default)
From: [personal profile] cofax7
That's really funny!

Date: 2004-01-12 10:40 am (UTC)
kathyh: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kathyh
In the most stunning twist of all, Jenny and Darla become reluctant allies when Darla realizes the utterly insane Angelus plans to let all other supernatural creatues (save the Uberdemons) die to ensure his ascension to Hellgod-dom...

Now confess, you'd really like to see this wouldn't you *g*. That was brilliant, and all of them have a rather scary plausibility to them.

2) Babylon 5 as written by Joss Whedon (and his staff)

I wonder what it says about me that I really wouldn't mind seeing this one!

Date: 2004-01-12 10:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lockedinside.livejournal.com
absolutely fantabulous. and nnngh. so hot john chrichton! but i digress...

Quark progresses from cynical sell-out to, well, cynical sell-out with the occasional soft spot. Fans are still traumatized by the one episode which shows us Ferengi sex. Otoh, the show's creators did let him smooch Sisko repeatedly.

best part i must say of all 4 twists. =)

Date: 2004-01-12 10:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bethos.livejournal.com
... my brain hurts now.

Date: 2004-01-12 01:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ide-cyan.livejournal.com
When I read point number three, before clicking through, I felt very, very afraid. But DS9 is the least scary potential Trek cross-over. Whew.

Wynnatira?

Jenny/Darla. I love it. I love it. Also *snerk* at the Jiley Sinn & Jander Mavelle Sarris. Hmm. "Only one demon has ever defeated the Slayers. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else."?

Delenn's little sister Elizabeth. Until I remembered Lochley, I had scary visions of V's Elizabeth...

Ivanova/Lyta would be so much cooler than Willow/Kennedy.

Date: 2004-01-12 02:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
1.)Well of course I would.*g*

2.) Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing all of them...

Thanks, and...

Date: 2004-01-12 02:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
...I'd love to write it, but having seen only one season of West Wing (it's not broadcast in Germany, and I had to aquire the DVDs last year when I was in Britain), I don't feel qualified. Maybe later when I've seen at least another season?

Date: 2004-01-12 02:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
So you want to see Quark smooch Sisko?*g*

Date: 2004-01-12 02:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Thank you!

Date: 2004-01-12 02:33 pm (UTC)
kernezelda: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kernezelda
serves you write
Are you being punny?

See, this one's just friendly. Not at all romantic.

Date: 2004-01-12 02:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
...in a good way, I hope?

Date: 2004-01-12 02:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Yes, Winnatira, by all means. Even the affair with Dukat fits.*g*

Jenny/Darla. I love it. I love it.

Thanks.*g* Now I just have to bribe [livejournal.com profile] rozk to write it...

"Only one demon has ever defeated the Slayers. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else."?

Exactly!

Never having watched V, I couldn't tell about the scariness. I was tempted to use "Lizzie" instead of Elizabeth since that's what her friend Zoe calls her in the Neil Gaiman episode, but thought it might be too obscure.

Re: well Neroon...

Date: 2004-01-12 02:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] misshallelujah.livejournal.com
::falls over::
Thanks, now I won't be able to get THAT out of my head ::looks for something harder than pillow to thwap head on:: Ah-ha, marble table! ::WHAM:: Ow!

Expect that lawyer's letter anytime now :)

Date: 2004-01-12 02:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
No, that was my tired German brain inadvertendly coming up with punny slips in a foreign language. It sometimes happens.

And hey, keep the icons coming, oh gifted one!*g*

Date: 2004-01-12 02:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] misshallelujah.livejournal.com
"Only one demon has ever defeated the Slayers. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else."?

BWAAHAHAHAH That has GOT to be iconed!
I would do it, except that I don't have any Buffy pictures on my compy (not being a fan, see)...

Oh in Valen's name no...

Date: 2004-01-12 02:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] misshallelujah.livejournal.com
...not more mental images I did NOT need!
::now can't get image of Sisko grabbing RygQuark and smacking him square on the lips out of her head::

Is there anything harder than this table around here? Like a wall of duranium, or something? I need to pound my head on it.

Date: 2004-01-12 03:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ide-cyan.livejournal.com
Quickly Googled character info (http://members.tripod.com/Vicki_98/characters/elizabeth.htm) for Elizabeth. (And calling her a Lizzie is obviously the kind of wordplay the series' writers intended.)

Date: 2004-01-12 04:51 pm (UTC)
andraste: The reason half the internet imagines me as Patrick Stewart. (Default)
From: [personal profile] andraste
The true heart of the show, however, is the relationship between arch-enemies Jenny Calendar and Darla.

... and now I have images of Jenny getting upset becaues Darla has a plant she needs to perform a Special Gypsy Ceremony and won't give it to her.

Susan Ivanova going from tech-savvy first officer to powerful P12 telepath who almost destroys the station in her wild grief when her lover, Talia Winters, is killed.

Ah, but who was it that killed her? Is there any B5 equivilent of Warren, Jonathan and Andrew?

The revelation that Lennier caused it due to anxiety over his engagement to Vira was never that convincing.

And this is the part that broke my brain. Which, given some of the other things in the post, is saying something *g*.

Scorpius the Tailor

*giggles hysterically*

Should I even ask who gets to be Bashir ...?

Now I want to know what the episode titles on these versions would be. Given JMS's tendency towards Portentous Titles Of Great Portentousness and the Farscape writers' love of bad puns ...

Date: 2004-01-12 05:25 pm (UTC)
kernezelda: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kernezelda
Haven't too many Rygel icons, but here's the Hynerian Macarena.

Date: 2004-01-12 06:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angelaeryn.livejournal.com
I have nothing to say to praise your giftedness that hasn't already been said. But, as a fan of all three, this had me in stitches! You're great!

Date: 2004-01-12 11:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Thank you!

Thanks!

Date: 2004-01-12 11:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
You know, this would actually make her a good Dawn...

Date: 2004-01-13 12:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
... and now I have images of Jenny getting upset becaues Darla has a plant she needs to perform a Special Gypsy Ceremony and won't give it to her.

And she'd complain to Jander, too!

Is there any B5 equivilent of Warren, Jonathan and Andrew?

Not really. I suppose you'd have to take Bester, but then whether or not he knew about Talia's second personality (in canon) is open to debate. He's just as capable of having organized the whole thing as he is of actually telling the truth when he says he knew nothing about it. (If he did know, then all the check-ups on Talia before must have been the strengthen her cover.) In any case, he's too self-assured to qualify for any member of the Trio, plus he definitely doesn't see himself as a supervillain.

Should I even ask who gets to be Bashir ...?

Stark?

Date: 2004-01-13 12:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ide-cyan.livejournal.com
Is there any B5 equivilent of Warren, Jonathan and Andrew?

Not really.


How about the Night Watch?

Date: 2004-01-13 01:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
The Nightwatch would fit with the psychology, but they never got individualized enough to be cast as the Trio. Okay, with one exception: Zack is the obvious candidate for Jonathan, but otherwise?

Date: 2004-01-13 01:42 am (UTC)
andraste: The reason half the internet imagines me as Patrick Stewart. (Default)
From: [personal profile] andraste
He's just as capable of having organized the whole thing as he is of actually telling the truth when he says he knew nothing about it. (If he did know, then all the check-ups on Talia before must have been the strengthen her cover.)

It seems that the Psi Corp has wheels within wheels, since one shadowy branch was going to have her killed at one point, which may mean they didn't know she was a sleeper agent. (Or that eliminating Talia as a witness was a higher priority than her mission.)

Stark?

And the scary mental pictures just keep coming, I see *g*.

Date: 2004-01-13 02:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ide-cyan.livejournal.com
Mack and Bo?

Date: 2004-01-13 08:01 am (UTC)
thesecondevil: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thesecondevil
I don't think there are enough words to say how cool all those sound, I know I'd watch them all.

"We are all Giles"

That is a brilliant line, it deserves its own icon.

The Psi Corps...

Date: 2004-01-13 09:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
...doesn't just have wheels within wheels, it has different factions, as you'll see when Bester makes his next visit to the station. So it's quite possible that the knowledge of Talia being a sleeper agent was limited to one of them.

Thanks!

Date: 2004-01-13 09:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Oh, I'd watch them, too.*g* And feel free to create an icon...

Re: Thanks!

Date: 2004-01-13 04:00 pm (UTC)
thesecondevil: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thesecondevil
I would create an icon but I don't know how. But one day I will learn.

I'd also like to add that I finished reading your remaining DS9 reviews and I'm now officially pining for the DVD's. Damn you! ;-)

Re: Thanks!

Date: 2004-01-14 12:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Glad to be of service.*g*

Date: 2006-05-19 09:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nolivingman.livejournal.com
Oh man, you nailed it. I would be so addicted to Sunnydale. We *are* all Giles! And Jander and Jilly - I love it. Heeee.

And this:

we'll never forget the image of chained-up-Jeff Sinclair getting used as an S/M toy by AU! Ivanova in the episode where the Great Machine showed us what Babylon 5 would look like if Delenn hadn't arrived there

*dies* Delenn would so be one of Joss's chosen women.

Date: 2006-05-20 05:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
She so would be. And I'm glad to amuse.*g*

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