Idle Chatter
Nov. 26th, 2013 01:07 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakI didn't need any additional reason to be fond of the late, great Elizabeth Taylor, but finding out she was a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan certainly doesn't hurt. And she lived long enough to have watched the entire show, too. Considering Richard Burton, she probably shipped Buffy/Spike, and considering her talent for fierce life long friendships with men she didn't have affairs with (see also: Montgomery Clift, Rock Hudson), the whole idea of the Scoobies must have been very appealing.
In other news, I finally finished my week long watching of The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, extended edition, and appendices. As veterans from the Lord of the Rings movies know, the appendices of the Extended Editions are lengthy and a treat, as they show in detail all the people behind the camera (plus of course the actors) and the tremendous work they do in order to make these films happen. As for the film itself, it has an audio commentary by Philippa Boyens and Peter Jackson. The additional scenes were all understandably cut for the theatrical release (for example: the goblins' song simply gets us into Labyrinth territory, and while I adore Labyrinth, this intercut with the Bilbo and Gollum sequence would have been a disaster.
Speaking of the Bilbo and Gollum scene, turns out it was the very first one filmed (the Bag End dwarves meeting was the second), which first made me think, wow, talk about throwing your performer into a cold river to let him swim, but then, no, actually that was probably a smart choice, because it meant Martin Freeman could start with what was essentially a two person chamber play (and they let the actors play the entire scene through each time, too, instead of just filming bits and pieces which was necessary in the Bag End scene), which must be far more comfortable for an actor than interacting with fourteen other people in fragments. Also, in the commentary you can hear Jackson's frustration at the lack of critical recognition for Andy Serkis' performance the last time around and the hope that this is now changing, that people realise what the actors are doing isn't just lending their voice to a digital character but giving a complete physical performance, only in "digital skin", as he and Philippa Boyens put it.
Speaking of actors, one of the main reasons why Saruman is in the film seems to be that PJ was still on a guilt trip for having cut the Saruman scene out of the theatrical release of Return of the King and felt the need to make it up to Christopher Lee. In the appendices you learn that since both Christopher Lee and Ian Holm are too old now for the trip to New Zealand, their scenes were filmed in London. For which technically only a minimum staff was necessary, but two of the dwarf actors came along anyway since they so badly wanted to meet and fanboy Christopher Lee. I sympathize. (They got rewarded by great tales from his life.)
And while we're talking fannishness, when the appendices get to Sylvester McCoy, you have one of the casting ladies squeeing, no other word for the vocal activity in question, after giving the usual compliment about how actor x is fabulous and competent etc., "...and he's a Time Lord", plus Peter Jackson is also on film talking about how Sylvester McCoy was an awesome Doctor. Which explains how Peter Davison got certain New Zealand cameos for The Five(ish) Doctors. :) (Also, you can see Sylvester McCoy playing spoons and doing some magical tricks for the crew, which, aw.)
Re: main cast, they seem to get along very well and tease each other a lot. With the exception of Bofur, I had only seen James Nesbit playing intense and/or disturbed characters, so it made for quite a change to see how relaxed and charming he is in real life (well, in making of documentaries *g*). And Aidan Turner still manages to look younger both as Kili and as himself than he did as Mitchell in Being Human, which is the magic of tv and film, I suppose. Martin Freeman amused me by saying the one thing he couldn't figure out about Bilbo was his sex life, i.e. whether he had one and with whom. Martin Freeman, do not worry: a thousand fanfiction writers have figured this out for you. Incidentally, all the making of stuff gives you the impression that in terms of holding the company together and speaking for same, the actor stepping into that role wasn't Freeman but Richard Armitage. (For example, when they have the Maori blessing ceremony at the start of filming, he's the one who says thank you to the Maori who did that and then leads the others into a rendition of Far over the Misty Mountain to thank the Maori for their song and dance before.) All the actors have these elaborate backstories worked out for their characters, and perhaps the most charmingly excentric thing for me was that Dwalin's actor, having read a Bronte biography which mentioned the fact Emily Bronte's dogs were called Keeper and Grasper, decided that Dwalin would name his axes with these names ("because he's that kind of guy"), and WETA obliged by engraving the appropriate runes into the axes.
At one point, Philippa Boyens sas that they wanted the audience to like Balin especially so that the next time they watch Fellowship of the Ring, they feel like Gimli does when finding his tomb in Moria. Having rewatched Fellowship since the theatrical Hobbit release, I can say she succeeded in that cruel aim. She then made it even worse by pointing out that the skeleton holding the book in the Moria scene from Fellowship is little Ori. Waahhhhhhh! Seriously, though, I knew the Hobbit, the book, back when the LotR films came out, of course, but I still did not feel for the dwarves back then the way I do now. Tolkien, killing them off between books in such a gruesome way was a cruel, cruel thing to do.
Because rewatching An Unexpected Journey made me interested to take a look at what type of fanfiction has been written in the intervening year, I checked, and concluded:
1) Lots of Bilbo/Thorin. Which actually I can totally see in the movie (and btw, one of the appendices scenes has Richard Armitage ask during a script reading when coming to "Thorin grasps Bilbo" "is that post coital or pre?") , but the summaries of most of those stories aren't exactly encouraging.
2) Dís, Thorin's sister and Kili's and Fili's mother, wins for "character who only is a name in Tolkien's appendices writings and then turned into a major player by fandom; I approve
3) Lots of time travel (mostly it's Bilbo travelling back, but I've also spotted a multichapter tale in which Thorin does)
4) Kili and Fili provide fandom with its incest kink
5) Though there are some dwarf/dwarf pairings which, gasp, don't include one of Durin's line. In which case they probably involve Dwali and/or Ori.
6) And then there's non-con involving Thranduil, who only had two seconds in the movie prologue (though of course he'll have a large role in the second film). Is this because of Lee Pace?
7) Strangely, my cursory glance did not find any Gandalf/Galadriel, though the film clearly ships it. Somehow I doubt this is because fandom objects to adultery.
In other news, I finally finished my week long watching of The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, extended edition, and appendices. As veterans from the Lord of the Rings movies know, the appendices of the Extended Editions are lengthy and a treat, as they show in detail all the people behind the camera (plus of course the actors) and the tremendous work they do in order to make these films happen. As for the film itself, it has an audio commentary by Philippa Boyens and Peter Jackson. The additional scenes were all understandably cut for the theatrical release (for example: the goblins' song simply gets us into Labyrinth territory, and while I adore Labyrinth, this intercut with the Bilbo and Gollum sequence would have been a disaster.
Speaking of the Bilbo and Gollum scene, turns out it was the very first one filmed (the Bag End dwarves meeting was the second), which first made me think, wow, talk about throwing your performer into a cold river to let him swim, but then, no, actually that was probably a smart choice, because it meant Martin Freeman could start with what was essentially a two person chamber play (and they let the actors play the entire scene through each time, too, instead of just filming bits and pieces which was necessary in the Bag End scene), which must be far more comfortable for an actor than interacting with fourteen other people in fragments. Also, in the commentary you can hear Jackson's frustration at the lack of critical recognition for Andy Serkis' performance the last time around and the hope that this is now changing, that people realise what the actors are doing isn't just lending their voice to a digital character but giving a complete physical performance, only in "digital skin", as he and Philippa Boyens put it.
Speaking of actors, one of the main reasons why Saruman is in the film seems to be that PJ was still on a guilt trip for having cut the Saruman scene out of the theatrical release of Return of the King and felt the need to make it up to Christopher Lee. In the appendices you learn that since both Christopher Lee and Ian Holm are too old now for the trip to New Zealand, their scenes were filmed in London. For which technically only a minimum staff was necessary, but two of the dwarf actors came along anyway since they so badly wanted to meet and fanboy Christopher Lee. I sympathize. (They got rewarded by great tales from his life.)
And while we're talking fannishness, when the appendices get to Sylvester McCoy, you have one of the casting ladies squeeing, no other word for the vocal activity in question, after giving the usual compliment about how actor x is fabulous and competent etc., "...and he's a Time Lord", plus Peter Jackson is also on film talking about how Sylvester McCoy was an awesome Doctor. Which explains how Peter Davison got certain New Zealand cameos for The Five(ish) Doctors. :) (Also, you can see Sylvester McCoy playing spoons and doing some magical tricks for the crew, which, aw.)
Re: main cast, they seem to get along very well and tease each other a lot. With the exception of Bofur, I had only seen James Nesbit playing intense and/or disturbed characters, so it made for quite a change to see how relaxed and charming he is in real life (well, in making of documentaries *g*). And Aidan Turner still manages to look younger both as Kili and as himself than he did as Mitchell in Being Human, which is the magic of tv and film, I suppose. Martin Freeman amused me by saying the one thing he couldn't figure out about Bilbo was his sex life, i.e. whether he had one and with whom. Martin Freeman, do not worry: a thousand fanfiction writers have figured this out for you. Incidentally, all the making of stuff gives you the impression that in terms of holding the company together and speaking for same, the actor stepping into that role wasn't Freeman but Richard Armitage. (For example, when they have the Maori blessing ceremony at the start of filming, he's the one who says thank you to the Maori who did that and then leads the others into a rendition of Far over the Misty Mountain to thank the Maori for their song and dance before.) All the actors have these elaborate backstories worked out for their characters, and perhaps the most charmingly excentric thing for me was that Dwalin's actor, having read a Bronte biography which mentioned the fact Emily Bronte's dogs were called Keeper and Grasper, decided that Dwalin would name his axes with these names ("because he's that kind of guy"), and WETA obliged by engraving the appropriate runes into the axes.
At one point, Philippa Boyens sas that they wanted the audience to like Balin especially so that the next time they watch Fellowship of the Ring, they feel like Gimli does when finding his tomb in Moria. Having rewatched Fellowship since the theatrical Hobbit release, I can say she succeeded in that cruel aim. She then made it even worse by pointing out that the skeleton holding the book in the Moria scene from Fellowship is little Ori. Waahhhhhhh! Seriously, though, I knew the Hobbit, the book, back when the LotR films came out, of course, but I still did not feel for the dwarves back then the way I do now. Tolkien, killing them off between books in such a gruesome way was a cruel, cruel thing to do.
Because rewatching An Unexpected Journey made me interested to take a look at what type of fanfiction has been written in the intervening year, I checked, and concluded:
1) Lots of Bilbo/Thorin. Which actually I can totally see in the movie (and btw, one of the appendices scenes has Richard Armitage ask during a script reading when coming to "Thorin grasps Bilbo" "is that post coital or pre?") , but the summaries of most of those stories aren't exactly encouraging.
2) Dís, Thorin's sister and Kili's and Fili's mother, wins for "character who only is a name in Tolkien's appendices writings and then turned into a major player by fandom; I approve
3) Lots of time travel (mostly it's Bilbo travelling back, but I've also spotted a multichapter tale in which Thorin does)
4) Kili and Fili provide fandom with its incest kink
5) Though there are some dwarf/dwarf pairings which, gasp, don't include one of Durin's line. In which case they probably involve Dwali and/or Ori.
6) And then there's non-con involving Thranduil, who only had two seconds in the movie prologue (though of course he'll have a large role in the second film). Is this because of Lee Pace?
7) Strangely, my cursory glance did not find any Gandalf/Galadriel, though the film clearly ships it. Somehow I doubt this is because fandom objects to adultery.
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Date: 2013-11-26 12:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-11-26 01:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-11-26 01:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-11-26 03:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-11-26 03:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-11-26 04:38 pm (UTC)I'm none too sure about Tom Bombadil and Goldberry, either, but then the kids who haven't read the books don't know they exist.
Other warnings: parental abuse, attempted infanticide (Denethor and Faramir); backstory theft (Bilbo & the Ring, according to Gollum; Lobelia & spoons, according to Bilbo), attempted theft (Boromir & the Ring), destruction of alien property (considering the Ring actually belongs to Sauron, what Frodo attempts to do but and Gollum involuntarily does), extreme aging (Bilbo after the Ring is no longer with him) complete with traumatic and possibly discriminatory representation of dementia, losing of limbs (Frodo's finger!), death of regular character (Boromir, Theoden), violent kidnapping (Merry and Pippin), threatened cannibalism (happens to them as well)...
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Date: 2013-11-26 04:44 pm (UTC)ableist language concerning mental illness ("Bilbo's cracked and Frodo's cracking")
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Date: 2013-11-26 05:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-11-26 06:10 pm (UTC)I expect the non-con involving Thranduil is left over from LotR fandom, where he was routinely cast as abusing poor woobie Legolas.
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Date: 2013-11-26 07:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-11-26 09:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-11-27 06:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-11-27 11:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-11-28 06:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-11-28 11:02 pm (UTC)1. Much of the Bilbo/Thorin is authorial self-insert (as the smaller, weaker Bilbo POV character mainly). There are fics that go beyond the cliche, but not many.
2. Dis is named in the book, when the dwarves arrive at Laketown (I only know because I'm reading it out loud with my daughter). There is some excellent Dis fic out there, and when it's self-insert, it's the good kind.
3. Most of the time travel fic is the do-over Groundhog Day flavor.
4. Fili and Kili are the hot dwarves (along with Thorin) and fandom has ridden that a long long way. I never liked incest before but find myself quite a fan now. Still can't read SPN fic though.
5. I'm happy to say there is a core group of Hobbit fic writers who will write every possible pairing, though the older dwarves without much backstory are inevitably less popular. Ori, being young and sweet, is often the POV character, Balin gets a surprising amount and Dwalin/Nori is quite common.
6. Thranduil noncon is based on book canon and DoS previews, because imprisoning the Dwarves leads to that pretty naturally. Plus: Lee Pace looking haughty!
7. Minimal Gandalf/Galadriel so far, though I've read an excellent Gandalf/Dori and I think Bofur as well.
May I offer: my Hobbitfic bookmarks on AO3 and (somewhat overlapping) my recommended Hobbitfic on Pinboard. I can guarantee some gen and a wide range of pairings, I'm not an OTP kinda fan.
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Date: 2013-12-01 07:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-12-01 05:56 pm (UTC)