Penny Dreadful 3.05
May. 30th, 2016 03:47 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakOnce upon a time in America...
So, at last, the Ethan Chandler/Talbot backstory. But because Josh Harnett isn't Eva Green, without flashbacks. It's a bit different than what I'd speculated - no childhood/youth with the Apache - and they still haven't point blank said that this is how Ethan became a werewolf, but the general gist was along general speculation: Ethan participates in an Apache extinction campaign with the army, feels guilty, Kaetenay's idea of atonment is of the "death is too good for you" type. What I hadn't anticipated is that Ethan's time with the Apache was after, not before his stint as a soldier, and that Kaetenay's idea involved enlisting Ethan as a warrior to kill white soldiers. Or that what Ethan hates Kaetenay for isn't getting werewolved but the whole thing culmilating in a massacre of the Talbot family, minus Talbot Snr.,due to Ethan being naive enough to believe "we're only taking the weapons" when these are people whose own families were killed, or that this is what Talbot Snr. has issues with his son for.
I must say, John Logan, I'm impressed. Not least because aside from various dead people on all sides, there are no innocents here, and Talbot Snr (who of course is Brian Cox!) instead of just being evil racist Daddy actually has a reason for all those pursuers he sent after Ethan. Also, as the script rather heavily lets him point out, in some ways he's the US version of Malcolm, complete with mountain naming after himself. Of course, there are also differences, notably the parallels Malcolm has with Kaetenay. Talbot Snr. isn't bonded to a child-by-choice, and his idea of saving his son involves his son begging him for forgiveness, whereas Malcolm and Kaetenay are driven by guilt for what they did re: their children.
In addition to all the Ethan backstory, we also get a bit of Hecate backstory, and okay, Evelyn letting Lucifer abuse her at age 5 wins for sheer horror over everyone else's. No wonder Hecate thinks massacring parents is the way to go in terms of freedom (and ruling the world ascension). Mind you, Ethan in all of this actually comes across as absolutely incapable of developing his own moral compass, pledging himself to whoever is the strongest personality around him - first he joins the army to please his father, then he becomes an ersatz Apache while they're hunted because of Kaetenay, then he pledges himself to Vanessa and takes her as his way to find meaning, and when Vanessa by using black magic to kill for revenge no longer qualifies as a savior figure, it's all nihilism and "I should die to atone" until Hecate comes along and offers "join me in guilt free evil overlorddom". Which leaves Malcolm Murray as the worst least likely or qualified person to make a case for not going dark side, which is a delicious irony I appreciate. (I had the impression Malcolm sees that irony, too, and would rather be anywhere else. But here he is, and as far as atoning for his own sins is concerned, that might just be the gig.)
Kaetenay, dead or not: I know my genre. Ethan saying "a bullet is too good for him, let him die slowly in the desert" means he'll live. Probably not till the end of the season, I fear, but for now. (It also means they're even in the "death is too good for you" department.)
Inspector Rusk: has, alas, given up on bringing his man to justice alive and will settle on him being dead. This does not heighten his survival chances, but otoh I vote for a case of mistaken identity, since he's now willing to shoot from a distance, and Rusk going home alive himself but under the impression he's killed Ethan.
Meanwhile, in another subplot: our resident Mad Scientists try the combined Jekyll-Frankenstein-Method, which actually seems to work. (If you've watched even one version of Jekyll & Hyde, you're probably as sure as I am that the supposedly permanently cured wannabe assassin will show up one or two episodes later as a raving madman again, foreshadowing Hyde.) While this experimenting is still going on, we get more UST and bickering dialogue, somewhat condescending on Victor's part and angry on Henry's, as he points out that no, they're not the same, Victor's way of being an outsider being much different from Henry's. Victor's throwaway line about Henry needing to deal with his temper is going to have fatal consequences soon, methinks. While Victor is as deluded as ever in his idea of "curing" Lily, declaring the first few days after he made her were perfect and so was she. Yep. A (as far as he knew) frightened woman entirely dependent on him and adoring him: Victor's idea of perfection. Oh, and Victor's reply to Henry's question as to whether he himself would take the chance to become someone new entirely, with no memories: no, he wouldn't, despite all the horrors and guilt. The idea that maybe his Creatures also wouldn't have wanted this, if they had the choice (I don't count what Victor asked Brona as a genuine choice) seems to escape him for now. Good lord, Victor, you so need a reality check, but if everything else that happened to you hasn't given you one so far, I don't know what will.
So, at last, the Ethan Chandler/Talbot backstory. But because Josh Harnett isn't Eva Green, without flashbacks. It's a bit different than what I'd speculated - no childhood/youth with the Apache - and they still haven't point blank said that this is how Ethan became a werewolf, but the general gist was along general speculation: Ethan participates in an Apache extinction campaign with the army, feels guilty, Kaetenay's idea of atonment is of the "death is too good for you" type. What I hadn't anticipated is that Ethan's time with the Apache was after, not before his stint as a soldier, and that Kaetenay's idea involved enlisting Ethan as a warrior to kill white soldiers. Or that what Ethan hates Kaetenay for isn't getting werewolved but the whole thing culmilating in a massacre of the Talbot family, minus Talbot Snr.,due to Ethan being naive enough to believe "we're only taking the weapons" when these are people whose own families were killed, or that this is what Talbot Snr. has issues with his son for.
I must say, John Logan, I'm impressed. Not least because aside from various dead people on all sides, there are no innocents here, and Talbot Snr (who of course is Brian Cox!) instead of just being evil racist Daddy actually has a reason for all those pursuers he sent after Ethan. Also, as the script rather heavily lets him point out, in some ways he's the US version of Malcolm, complete with mountain naming after himself. Of course, there are also differences, notably the parallels Malcolm has with Kaetenay. Talbot Snr. isn't bonded to a child-by-choice, and his idea of saving his son involves his son begging him for forgiveness, whereas Malcolm and Kaetenay are driven by guilt for what they did re: their children.
In addition to all the Ethan backstory, we also get a bit of Hecate backstory, and okay, Evelyn letting Lucifer abuse her at age 5 wins for sheer horror over everyone else's. No wonder Hecate thinks massacring parents is the way to go in terms of freedom (and ruling the world ascension). Mind you, Ethan in all of this actually comes across as absolutely incapable of developing his own moral compass, pledging himself to whoever is the strongest personality around him - first he joins the army to please his father, then he becomes an ersatz Apache while they're hunted because of Kaetenay, then he pledges himself to Vanessa and takes her as his way to find meaning, and when Vanessa by using black magic to kill for revenge no longer qualifies as a savior figure, it's all nihilism and "I should die to atone" until Hecate comes along and offers "join me in guilt free evil overlorddom". Which leaves Malcolm Murray as the worst least likely or qualified person to make a case for not going dark side, which is a delicious irony I appreciate. (I had the impression Malcolm sees that irony, too, and would rather be anywhere else. But here he is, and as far as atoning for his own sins is concerned, that might just be the gig.)
Kaetenay, dead or not: I know my genre. Ethan saying "a bullet is too good for him, let him die slowly in the desert" means he'll live. Probably not till the end of the season, I fear, but for now. (It also means they're even in the "death is too good for you" department.)
Inspector Rusk: has, alas, given up on bringing his man to justice alive and will settle on him being dead. This does not heighten his survival chances, but otoh I vote for a case of mistaken identity, since he's now willing to shoot from a distance, and Rusk going home alive himself but under the impression he's killed Ethan.
Meanwhile, in another subplot: our resident Mad Scientists try the combined Jekyll-Frankenstein-Method, which actually seems to work. (If you've watched even one version of Jekyll & Hyde, you're probably as sure as I am that the supposedly permanently cured wannabe assassin will show up one or two episodes later as a raving madman again, foreshadowing Hyde.) While this experimenting is still going on, we get more UST and bickering dialogue, somewhat condescending on Victor's part and angry on Henry's, as he points out that no, they're not the same, Victor's way of being an outsider being much different from Henry's. Victor's throwaway line about Henry needing to deal with his temper is going to have fatal consequences soon, methinks. While Victor is as deluded as ever in his idea of "curing" Lily, declaring the first few days after he made her were perfect and so was she. Yep. A (as far as he knew) frightened woman entirely dependent on him and adoring him: Victor's idea of perfection. Oh, and Victor's reply to Henry's question as to whether he himself would take the chance to become someone new entirely, with no memories: no, he wouldn't, despite all the horrors and guilt. The idea that maybe his Creatures also wouldn't have wanted this, if they had the choice (I don't count what Victor asked Brona as a genuine choice) seems to escape him for now. Good lord, Victor, you so need a reality check, but if everything else that happened to you hasn't given you one so far, I don't know what will.
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no subject
Date: 2016-06-01 02:23 am (UTC)Like you, I was impressed by how well all the little hints that have been dropped over the last two-and-a-smidge seasons fit together in the final revelation of Ethan's Sins. Every time he would talk about the wrongs he had committed in past seasons, I found myself wondering if the show would end up giving us a half-assed crime that Ethan could conceivably feel guilty about...but no one else would agree with him. You've seen enough television to know what I'm talking about.
But no! He has very legitimate reasons to feel guilty! He murdered the families of others and unwittingly assisted in the murder of his own family! I am disturbingly pleased by this.
Ethan in all of this actually comes across as absolutely incapable of developing his own moral compass.
I would like to offer an alternative assessment. I think Ethan has been trying to "do the right thing." He thought doing the right thing would make his father proud, so he joined the army. Then he realized that murdering children could not possibly be the right thing, no matter what his father had to say about whether or not those children were "human." He comes to that revelation on his own, even in the face of his commanding officer praising him for a job well done.
Then Ethan tries the opposite strategy, assuming (wrongly) that THIS must be the right thing. Hey, haven't we all heard about the moral correctness of atonement for wrongs? Not exactly a sign of free-thinking, I'll grant you, but if Ethan's first taste of living outside father's influence was in the army, then he never had much of a chance to develop alternative perspectives prior to this. Anyway, after Kaetenay's betrayal, what does Ethan do? Says "fuck this noise" and joins a theater troupe/Wild West show that tells blatant lies, but at least the lies are attractive and don't hurt anyone.
However, Ethan is not satisfied by this empty existence, as we see when he follows Miss Ives into her dark adventures.
So, I don't think Ethan lacks morals, but rather he keeps getting betrayed by people he trusts to model good morals alongside him. Maybe that's too fine a distinction? But he seemed plenty moral in Season 1 when he was questioning the ethics of imprisonment, torture, and murder. And I kind of agreed with him when he berated Vanessa for committing a petty murder with dark magic when Cut-wife Joan wouldn't resort to such work to save her own life.
Inspector Rusk: has, alas, given up on bringing his man to justice alive
After hearing his backstory (there were a LOT of backstories in this ep!) of how he lost his arm, I predict Inspector Rusk will be reincarnated as US Marshal Samuel Gerard and go hunting a one-armed man.
My only other observation is about Dr. Jekyll and Dr. Frankenstein: It's hard to be surprised that neither Henry or Victor can project ethics onto a potential situation in which they are "rehabilitating" Lily, when they can't even muster up the empathy to wonder whether it's a good idea to perform an electrified lobotomy on a helpless prisoner who is literally weeping with fear right in front of them.
This show does a marvelous job of making even unpleasant villain-types (Evelyn Poole, Papa Talbot) sympathetic, but Victor and Henry really took a nose-dive in my opinion-polls this ep. Right now, the only character in all three seasons who is unquestionably less attractive than those two to me is that snotty nobleman that Vanessa murdered in Season 2.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-01 06:49 am (UTC)I was disturbingly pleased about this as well, and I agree about a lot of tv first piles on the angst and then either delivers a "middle" crime or absolves the character in question by immediately presenting some exculpatory circumstance (he was drugged/brainwashed/under a thrall, or the victims aren't really dead, etc.
You also make a good point about Ethan's morals, and correctly point out to his objection to torture in s1 (which none of the other characters supported) as proof of his own moral compass. Otoh his objection to Vanessa's killing of the nobleman: that to me seemed less a case of "murder is wrong" and more a case of "murder for you is wrong", since he was about to do the deed for Vanessa. (I.e. the point wasn't so prevent murder and save the guy's life.) And while that's still a protective impulse, I think it's also patronizing. This isn't a choice anyone but Vanessa can make. Protesting and reminding her of values, by all means. And if you're really convinced that murder is wrong, then save the man's life, even if he's scum. (And Ethan could have tried to shoot the dogs and get the guy out of there, for example.) Stand by your values. But this in between thing? No.
Lack of empathy in Doctors Frankenstein and Jekyll: I would position Dorian lower on the scale for what he did to Angelique, but other than that, yes, I agree. This being said, I find it realistic in that one qualification of being a Mad Scientist is that you're so convinced you're doing it all for the Greater Good (the Greater Good also being yours) that you ignore all the pain on the way.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-02 02:36 pm (UTC)And yet you also have women like Gladys, and the Orderly's Wife, and the Suffragettes, who are shown as distinct and often actively trying to better their lot for either themselves or others, and strangely enough, they don't have to kill anyone for it. I don't know, it just stuck out to me, partly because I find Vanessa and Lily - and to degrees also Justine and even Hecate - quite carthatic characters: but they are, at the same time, incredibly self-absorbed and often selfish, and they mostly seem to care about their own pain. I don't think the show condemns them for that, but it still seems a visible element, especially when it comes to them recognizing that they are whole people, like men, but sort of denying it to other women.
It began to look like a theme to me due to Ethan's behaviour this episode: it seems childish. He felt bad for what he did, so he tried to atone for it - that didn't work out, it only made things worse, so he ran away. That didn't work out, either, so he tried to make good again by handing himself in, but at the moment it seems like he's trying to play rebellious teenagers by siding with Hecate and completely refusing to continue making up for the mess he caused - and he caused it, even though his father and other father obviously helped a great deal.
So this is Ethan being an irresponsible teenage dick, basically - and meanwhile, at home, Victor is without parental guidance, as usual, and of course he can't be upstaged in matters of childishness, so he has to act even worse than Ethan.
Seriously, I'm almost wishing someone would come around and hand the boys a couple of well-deserved slaps. Maybe Amunet is up for it? I've really missed her potty-mouthed, man-disdaining self lately.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-02 03:51 pm (UTC)I don't think we're going to get any more Amunet possessions, because Vanessa has too strong a grip on herself now. Otoh what Vanessa will say to Victor when/if she finally finds out what happened to the Orderly to make him John Clare and who Lily used to be might definitely be of the tongue-lashing type. I mean, she likes Victor, per se. But medical experiments that take away identity are kind of personal to her.
Meanwhile, any stern talking-to in the US to Ethan will probably have to be done by Malcolm, for lack of other candidates. Maybe a return of the favor Ethan did him when giving him the "you want a daughter, well there she is!" Speech about Vanessa in the exorcism episode.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-02 04:46 pm (UTC)I'm pretty hopeful for her survival, however, because she already died last season, and Seward, while just as strong and tough-but-good-hearted as her ancestress, has less of a martyr about her.
(Right now, my survival guide for the side characters goes roughly Orderly's Son, Talbot Sr., the Marshall, Hecate, Drac's remaining minions most likely dead, Orderly's Wife, Justine, Henry's Jekyll side, Kaetenay, Renfield, Rusk maybe dead, Hyde, Dracula, Seward, Lily, Dorian, most likely to survive.)
Vanessa's reaction to Victor's antics: This reminds me that I want someone to finally find out what he's been doing (I mean, other than a fellow mad scientist and a guy who is probably Satan). Preferably before Dracula does and decides he could need his personal crazy doctor who is able to build him an army of immortal minions who don't look like Depeche Mode understudies. If that is combined with yelling, even better.
Speaking of the Orderly, I'm really curious how he died. I guess it's safe to say Victor didn't just knock him over the head, Brona seems to be the first person whom he, er, "helped along", but something nefarious probably did happen to him.
Malcolm as the person most capable of giving a stern lecture about moral failings and responsible behaviour: no wonder the show keeps teasing the End Times. Hell must have frozen over.