In which I have opinions
Jun. 8th, 2016 11:51 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakGoofiest fannish thing of the month I did: going to the Star Wars: Identies exhibition which is currently here in Munich and taking pictures of the Ahsoka Tano part of it.
Ahsokashrine exhibit:
Anakin and Ahsoka models:
Study of Ahsoka's expressions for The Clone Wars:
Re: the exhibition itself, costumes, models and props from all eras. (I.e. from early storyboards for A New Hope to BB8.) The infamous slave girl costume for Leia from Return of the Jedi brought it home that poor Carrie Fisher must have hungered and/or drugged herself to a painfully thin state for that movie - those sizes are tiny!
It's very much aimed at a young audience, with educational mini lectures (I don't mean this in a deragotorily) all over the place, like in a science museum. One of them, however, awoke protective feelings about Shmi Skywalker I didn't know I had. The subject was different methods of parenting, and the speaker, using clips from A New Hope (Toshi Power Station!) and The Phantom Menace (Shmi tells Anakin only he can decide whether or not to go with Qui-Gon to become a Jedi), tells us that while both Owen & Beru and Shmi were loving parents, Owen and Beru gave Luke discipline and boundaries whereas Shmi basically let Anakin do what he wanted and hardly gave him any rules at all. (Implication: and thus a future dark sider was made.)
Now look here, Star Wars: Identies. I'm all for defending and giving the two Lars' credit, not least because Uncle Owen was vilified in some older SW fanfiction. However, you really can't compare these situations. "Hardly any rules" doesn't apply when both Shmi and her son are slaves, and their entire existence is ruled by someone else. And how was Shmi supposed to react once Qui-Gon's offer was on the table? "No, Anakin, remain on Tatoine and stay a slave with me. Maybe you won't die on the next pod race Watto puts you in, either." Sure.
And that's leaving aside that you can speculate about reasons for the way Anakin's personality developed endlessly, but "lack of rules to obey" certainly wasn't one of them. He went from spending the first nine years of his life as a slave to spending the next fourteen as a Jedi, in an order where you address your mentor as "Master", are expected to feel benevolently for all species in general but must not get overly attached to any particular individual, something practically everyone else takes for granted, and where you go where they tell you to go. And then he spent the remaining 20 plus years of his life as a Sith, in a situation where while a great many people feared him (with reason) he still was expected to unquestioningly and absolutely obey the Emperor, who between Watto and the Jedi Council certainly wins the price for "most obvious tyrant ever in charge of Anakin Skywalker".
Switching fandoms, since I'm in a complaining mood: yesterday, my suspension of disbelief snapped again in an otherwise not half bad post Civil War story where the author declared that Tony Stark was incredibly awkward around children. Look, author, I don't care how much you're attached to the fanon of Tony incapable of most social interactions, but we actually have screen canon on this. (I.e. how Tony Stark acts with children.) He's not awkward at all. Now you can argue he treats children like adults and whether or not that's a good idea, but he hits it off with Harley in Iron Man 3 almost instantly. There's no moment of "oh God, a child? What do I say?"; instead, Tony draws the correct conclusion that Harley is a mini nerd who gets bullied at school and bribes him with something to use against a bully, and has a wry, amused rapport with the kid throughout the rest of the movie. And in addition to Harley, there's the scene early on when Tony is having lunch with Rhodey and a couple of kids come to them because they want Tony to sign their pictures for them. Which he does without hesitation and with a friendly joke (that he then gets into a panic attack isn't because they're kids but because one of them mentions New York). Hell, in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, as far as I call, one official tells Nick Fury he wants Iron Man to come to his niece's birthday party, and it's not phrased like this is something unprecedented. In conclusion: MCU Tony Stark not only isn't awkward around kids, he seems to be well practiced in dealing with them. In fact, you could say he's got a talent for it.
For that matter, he's good with teenagers, too, if Peter Parker is anything to go by. Before anyone of the "recruiting Peter was unforgivable" persuasion strikes, I'd like to point out that by "good" I don't mean "morally upstanding". I mean "knowing how to interact with a teenager he's never met before and whom he wants something from". Which isn't something most adults can pull off.
Ahsoka
Anakin and Ahsoka models:
Study of Ahsoka's expressions for The Clone Wars:
Re: the exhibition itself, costumes, models and props from all eras. (I.e. from early storyboards for A New Hope to BB8.) The infamous slave girl costume for Leia from Return of the Jedi brought it home that poor Carrie Fisher must have hungered and/or drugged herself to a painfully thin state for that movie - those sizes are tiny!
It's very much aimed at a young audience, with educational mini lectures (I don't mean this in a deragotorily) all over the place, like in a science museum. One of them, however, awoke protective feelings about Shmi Skywalker I didn't know I had. The subject was different methods of parenting, and the speaker, using clips from A New Hope (Toshi Power Station!) and The Phantom Menace (Shmi tells Anakin only he can decide whether or not to go with Qui-Gon to become a Jedi), tells us that while both Owen & Beru and Shmi were loving parents, Owen and Beru gave Luke discipline and boundaries whereas Shmi basically let Anakin do what he wanted and hardly gave him any rules at all. (Implication: and thus a future dark sider was made.)
Now look here, Star Wars: Identies. I'm all for defending and giving the two Lars' credit, not least because Uncle Owen was vilified in some older SW fanfiction. However, you really can't compare these situations. "Hardly any rules" doesn't apply when both Shmi and her son are slaves, and their entire existence is ruled by someone else. And how was Shmi supposed to react once Qui-Gon's offer was on the table? "No, Anakin, remain on Tatoine and stay a slave with me. Maybe you won't die on the next pod race Watto puts you in, either." Sure.
And that's leaving aside that you can speculate about reasons for the way Anakin's personality developed endlessly, but "lack of rules to obey" certainly wasn't one of them. He went from spending the first nine years of his life as a slave to spending the next fourteen as a Jedi, in an order where you address your mentor as "Master", are expected to feel benevolently for all species in general but must not get overly attached to any particular individual, something practically everyone else takes for granted, and where you go where they tell you to go. And then he spent the remaining 20 plus years of his life as a Sith, in a situation where while a great many people feared him (with reason) he still was expected to unquestioningly and absolutely obey the Emperor, who between Watto and the Jedi Council certainly wins the price for "most obvious tyrant ever in charge of Anakin Skywalker".
Switching fandoms, since I'm in a complaining mood: yesterday, my suspension of disbelief snapped again in an otherwise not half bad post Civil War story where the author declared that Tony Stark was incredibly awkward around children. Look, author, I don't care how much you're attached to the fanon of Tony incapable of most social interactions, but we actually have screen canon on this. (I.e. how Tony Stark acts with children.) He's not awkward at all. Now you can argue he treats children like adults and whether or not that's a good idea, but he hits it off with Harley in Iron Man 3 almost instantly. There's no moment of "oh God, a child? What do I say?"; instead, Tony draws the correct conclusion that Harley is a mini nerd who gets bullied at school and bribes him with something to use against a bully, and has a wry, amused rapport with the kid throughout the rest of the movie. And in addition to Harley, there's the scene early on when Tony is having lunch with Rhodey and a couple of kids come to them because they want Tony to sign their pictures for them. Which he does without hesitation and with a friendly joke (that he then gets into a panic attack isn't because they're kids but because one of them mentions New York). Hell, in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, as far as I call, one official tells Nick Fury he wants Iron Man to come to his niece's birthday party, and it's not phrased like this is something unprecedented. In conclusion: MCU Tony Stark not only isn't awkward around kids, he seems to be well practiced in dealing with them. In fact, you could say he's got a talent for it.
For that matter, he's good with teenagers, too, if Peter Parker is anything to go by. Before anyone of the "recruiting Peter was unforgivable" persuasion strikes, I'd like to point out that by "good" I don't mean "morally upstanding". I mean "knowing how to interact with a teenager he's never met before and whom he wants something from". Which isn't something most adults can pull off.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-08 01:49 pm (UTC)The best part of that is that it's Alexander Pierce who says it.
He went from spending the first nine years of his life as a slave to spending the next fourteen as a Jedi, in an order where you address your mentor as "Master",
As you probably know, I still boggle at the tone-deafness of this in regard to a kid who was just freed from slavery, but yeah. In some ways, Anakin was only truly free right before he died.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-08 03:43 pm (UTC)I'm also imagining Fury periodically telling the Avengers they need to do some PR and go to children's birthdays or sign autographs. And the reactions.
Re: Anakin and his life time of Masters, quite. He had many problems. But lack of authority figures, supervision or rules wasn't one of them. There are some interesting AUS in which he survives and has to redeem himself differently, but I don't think that aspect - how would he behave if for the first time without a Master? - is focused on. Of course, he wouldn't be free in such a case, either, what with being a long time war criminal who even in a best case scenario of not prison would need close supervision, but it still would be a different, unused state of being.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-08 06:07 pm (UTC)I include this a lot in my stories because I can't imagine this isn't something they do! Tony and Pepper are media-savvy enough, and Steve of all people would be too. One of the many odd things about the way things were handled in CACW was the absence of the idea that they would do/had done PR in the wake of each incident.
but I don't think that aspect - how would he behave if for the first time without a Master? - is focused on
I'm not sure I've seen it either, though I haven't read many AUs where he survives RotJ and the ones I have aren't from his POV. It would be very interesting, I think. You should totally write that!
no subject
Date: 2016-06-08 02:33 pm (UTC)I always really liked Shmi though.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-08 03:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-06-08 05:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-06-08 06:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-06-08 07:52 pm (UTC)Though it's not as OOC as virgin!Tony, which I understand is also a thing that exists, though not something I've read widely enough in the fandom to have encountered in the wild.
no subject
Date: 2016-06-08 08:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-06-09 07:50 am (UTC)(BTW, like Musesfool I could see Tony getting a celebrity bonus when it comes to sexual reputation, but that carries you only so far, if real life celebrities are anything to go by, especially if there's microscopic attention to every detail of your life - we're talking about someone who first made the national headlines as more than "son of" when he was 8 -, and surely no shortage of ex one night stands eager to speak out.)
I think there's also a lot of projection by fanfic authors going on, be it with Tony or other characters - they identify with them and want them to share not just one or two but all problems, or have it even worse than them. Never mind on screen (or page) canon.
Going back to likelihood of Tony's ego making it news to him (pre Pepper) you have to please your partner in bed, not just yourself: my own guess is that the ego factor would work more in reverse. I.e. he'd find it humiliating not to be good at something. I mean, this is a guy whose being an engineer who keeps improving and finetuning everything he invents is a quintessential character trait.