The Precious is OURS!
Dec. 11th, 2004 10:25 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakSince yesterday afternoon. (For non-LotR people - I'm talking about the Extended Edition of Return of the King.) I watched the film yesterday late afternoon & evening, and this morning, while doing my own personal version of Waiting For Godot, I watched some of the extras, while periodically checking whether Godot had arrived. (Not so far.)
Right now I'm left with a powerful urge to hug Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens and the entire cast for giving us this wonderful, wonderful thing and putting so much passion and soul into it. No, it's not flawless. None of the three movies are. But it's real. I think that is one big reason this year's attempts at the epic, like Troy or King Arthur, more or less fell flat with the audience - the emotional reality and intensity in each of the LotR films is so hard to match.
First of all, let me confess to one big heresy in the eyes of Tolkien purists: I think Jackson actually improved on several characters. Notably Boromir in FotR, but also Saruman and Grima Wormtongue. Presenting Saruman as someone Gandalf once respected and admired, instead of Envious!Of!Gandalf from the get-go, hinted at a far more interesting backstory than the one from the Silmarillion. Simarly, Wormtongue in the book is simply despicable, and every good character does properly despise him. (Which makes it somewhat mysterious why no one got rid of him before Gandalf shows up.) Whereas in the film of TTT, you get the scene between him and Eowyn in which she's not just repulsed but, for a moment, fascinated, and the moment when Grima sees the assembly of Uruk-Hai at Isengard for the first time and it dawns to him that this truly could be the end of mankind - and there is a single tear. None of this negates Wormtongue's selling out, or basic nature, but it makes him three-dimensional.
Now, the restored Saruman & Grima scene, using material from both "The Voice of Saruman" and "The Scourge of the Shire", is a treat especially if you appreciate their filmic incarnations like I did. Because whereas in the book each of Saruman's attempts to lure one of Our Heros to him easily fails, and everything he says is patently false, the film version lets him get at least two shots in, no pun intended. Not because he manages to convince anyone they should join him, but because two of his insults, to Theoden and Gandalf respectively, really hit home. And it makes sense that they should. Theoden, in the films, does feel he might have failed his people, and Gandalf did sent Frodo to his doom knowing what wearing the Ring would do to him, and that death was all too likely.
Now in the book Frodo (as far as I recall - it's been a while) tells Wormtongue he doesn't have to stay with Saruman and be treated like dirt. But coming from Theoden in the film, with the reminder "you were once a man of Rohan" , it affected me that much more. Grima's stabbing Saruman in the back thus gets an additional dimension; it's not just the abused worm turning, it's Grima acting on one last flicker of whatever he might have felt for Theoden, Eowyn and Rohan. Again, this Grima? More interesting than the book version.
Some of the additional scenes were nice, but you could see why they were cut, as they didn't contribute anything to the story, like Gimli's and Legolas' drinking match. Others were adding something crucial, such as Faramir's and Pippin's quiet conversation, or simply two short reaction takes that make a difference - in the theatrical release, Merry and Pippin dancing on the table goes uninterrupted, and is just an occasion of fun and joy; in the Extended Edition, Gandalf, watching them, stops smiling, Pippin notices, stops smiling and dancing for a moment as well, and then we proceed to the rest of the scene as known, but this brief interruption makes you (well, me) convinced that Gandalf thought of Frodo, and Saruman's remark about how he, Gandalf, used the hobbits deliberately.
I loved all of the additional Eowyn scenes - the conversation with Merry en route to Gondor most of all, but also, on a purely visceral level, Eowyn's fighting scenes - except one. Again with the heresy, the House of Healing scene between her and Faramir just didn't play out convincingly to me. Especially given that the EE also restored yet another scene between her and Aragorn earlier. It's not that I don't love Faramir, or don't believe Eowyn could love him, but as it plays out in the film, the sudden clasping of hands and head on shoulder is just too fast. Either the scene should have been longer, making Eowyn's transition more believable, or, as in the theatrical version, left out altogether.
The Mouth of Sauron sequence was suitably eerie and cool. Still, I can see Jackson's reason for not having it in the theatrical release, which he names in the extras - i.e. in the book, we don't known at this point whether Frodo is alive or dead, because the last we heard of him he did get captured by Orcs, but as Jackson, as opposed to Tolkien, cut between the various narrative strands, the movie watcher knows Frodo is alive, if not well, and that the Mouth of Sauron is lying.
Some thoughts not new as not inspired by additional scenes: I so love Bernard Hill as Theoden, and the relationship between Theoden and Eowyn. Can't understand why movie-only fans complain nobody important dies in the last chapter - what's Theoden? A spear carrier? The quiet dignity, the affection for his niece, the self-doubt (a filmic addition, yes, but as with Aragorn, it works)... he's one of my favourite characaters.
I'll always regret that Andy Serkis didn't get to play the book Cirith Ungol scene because that was Gollum's moment of almost-redemption and one of the saddest scenes in the saga as Sam's waking up and reaction spoils it, and he could have done perfect justice to it, but as they gave him the "Smeagol is free!" scene in TTT, which is something of an equivalent, I'm not really holding it against Jackson. A filmic RotK addition, Frodo letting Gollum go in the tussle outside of Shelob's Lair despite having been betrayed by Gollum, and saying "I have to destroy it, Smeagol, for both our sakes", carries a different but also affecting sadness. (And should take care of the complaints that Frodo's pity for Gollum in TTT is just "selfish" and completely dependent on proving to himself Gollum can be redeemed to he has hope. That is one motive, but not all of it, as in the film version of RotK he, at that point, does not kid himself about Gollum being able to come back on his own anymore, but he still feels sorry for him.)
Bits from the extras I watched so far:
- am I ever relieved they saw the light and abandoned the idea of an Aragorn/Sauron duel; as Jackson himself put it, it would have been demeaning to the spirit of the book
- Viggo Mortensen is crazy in an endearing way, but then, we knew that already from the earlier extras *g*
- see Dominic Monaghan breaking Real People Slashers' hearts by casually mentioning Billy Boyd's girlfriend, a ballet dancer, who helped him with Pippin's and Merry's dances
- see Viggo and Billy creating a new 'ship for those broken people nonetheless (the scene has to be seen to be believed, and it's documented on film; in the spirit of supporting Sean Astin during the shooting of Sam's and Rosie's wedding kiss, these two enterprising gents were on the set at the day, and suddenly Viggo grabbed Billy ("I saw stars") and smooched him with a vengeance)
- judging by the (great) extent of Christopher Lee apparing in the documentaries, those ruffled feathers about Saruman's cut last scene must have been smoothed over by now, which brings me to
- Christopher Lee pointing out to Peter Jackson how a man who gets stabbed in the back actually sounds like: no loud cry but a small umph noise because the air goes, which Mr. Lee said he happened to personally know (as Peter Jackson points out and as some film afficiniados might now, Christopher Lee was working for some British secret ops in WWII)
- Sir Edmund Hillary coming to visit the set, and director and cast alike all becoming fanboys - they are cute when they do this!
Now, checking on Godot again...
Right now I'm left with a powerful urge to hug Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens and the entire cast for giving us this wonderful, wonderful thing and putting so much passion and soul into it. No, it's not flawless. None of the three movies are. But it's real. I think that is one big reason this year's attempts at the epic, like Troy or King Arthur, more or less fell flat with the audience - the emotional reality and intensity in each of the LotR films is so hard to match.
First of all, let me confess to one big heresy in the eyes of Tolkien purists: I think Jackson actually improved on several characters. Notably Boromir in FotR, but also Saruman and Grima Wormtongue. Presenting Saruman as someone Gandalf once respected and admired, instead of Envious!Of!Gandalf from the get-go, hinted at a far more interesting backstory than the one from the Silmarillion. Simarly, Wormtongue in the book is simply despicable, and every good character does properly despise him. (Which makes it somewhat mysterious why no one got rid of him before Gandalf shows up.) Whereas in the film of TTT, you get the scene between him and Eowyn in which she's not just repulsed but, for a moment, fascinated, and the moment when Grima sees the assembly of Uruk-Hai at Isengard for the first time and it dawns to him that this truly could be the end of mankind - and there is a single tear. None of this negates Wormtongue's selling out, or basic nature, but it makes him three-dimensional.
Now, the restored Saruman & Grima scene, using material from both "The Voice of Saruman" and "The Scourge of the Shire", is a treat especially if you appreciate their filmic incarnations like I did. Because whereas in the book each of Saruman's attempts to lure one of Our Heros to him easily fails, and everything he says is patently false, the film version lets him get at least two shots in, no pun intended. Not because he manages to convince anyone they should join him, but because two of his insults, to Theoden and Gandalf respectively, really hit home. And it makes sense that they should. Theoden, in the films, does feel he might have failed his people, and Gandalf did sent Frodo to his doom knowing what wearing the Ring would do to him, and that death was all too likely.
Now in the book Frodo (as far as I recall - it's been a while) tells Wormtongue he doesn't have to stay with Saruman and be treated like dirt. But coming from Theoden in the film, with the reminder "you were once a man of Rohan" , it affected me that much more. Grima's stabbing Saruman in the back thus gets an additional dimension; it's not just the abused worm turning, it's Grima acting on one last flicker of whatever he might have felt for Theoden, Eowyn and Rohan. Again, this Grima? More interesting than the book version.
Some of the additional scenes were nice, but you could see why they were cut, as they didn't contribute anything to the story, like Gimli's and Legolas' drinking match. Others were adding something crucial, such as Faramir's and Pippin's quiet conversation, or simply two short reaction takes that make a difference - in the theatrical release, Merry and Pippin dancing on the table goes uninterrupted, and is just an occasion of fun and joy; in the Extended Edition, Gandalf, watching them, stops smiling, Pippin notices, stops smiling and dancing for a moment as well, and then we proceed to the rest of the scene as known, but this brief interruption makes you (well, me) convinced that Gandalf thought of Frodo, and Saruman's remark about how he, Gandalf, used the hobbits deliberately.
I loved all of the additional Eowyn scenes - the conversation with Merry en route to Gondor most of all, but also, on a purely visceral level, Eowyn's fighting scenes - except one. Again with the heresy, the House of Healing scene between her and Faramir just didn't play out convincingly to me. Especially given that the EE also restored yet another scene between her and Aragorn earlier. It's not that I don't love Faramir, or don't believe Eowyn could love him, but as it plays out in the film, the sudden clasping of hands and head on shoulder is just too fast. Either the scene should have been longer, making Eowyn's transition more believable, or, as in the theatrical version, left out altogether.
The Mouth of Sauron sequence was suitably eerie and cool. Still, I can see Jackson's reason for not having it in the theatrical release, which he names in the extras - i.e. in the book, we don't known at this point whether Frodo is alive or dead, because the last we heard of him he did get captured by Orcs, but as Jackson, as opposed to Tolkien, cut between the various narrative strands, the movie watcher knows Frodo is alive, if not well, and that the Mouth of Sauron is lying.
Some thoughts not new as not inspired by additional scenes: I so love Bernard Hill as Theoden, and the relationship between Theoden and Eowyn. Can't understand why movie-only fans complain nobody important dies in the last chapter - what's Theoden? A spear carrier? The quiet dignity, the affection for his niece, the self-doubt (a filmic addition, yes, but as with Aragorn, it works)... he's one of my favourite characaters.
I'll always regret that Andy Serkis didn't get to play the book Cirith Ungol scene because that was Gollum's moment of almost-redemption and one of the saddest scenes in the saga as Sam's waking up and reaction spoils it, and he could have done perfect justice to it, but as they gave him the "Smeagol is free!" scene in TTT, which is something of an equivalent, I'm not really holding it against Jackson. A filmic RotK addition, Frodo letting Gollum go in the tussle outside of Shelob's Lair despite having been betrayed by Gollum, and saying "I have to destroy it, Smeagol, for both our sakes", carries a different but also affecting sadness. (And should take care of the complaints that Frodo's pity for Gollum in TTT is just "selfish" and completely dependent on proving to himself Gollum can be redeemed to he has hope. That is one motive, but not all of it, as in the film version of RotK he, at that point, does not kid himself about Gollum being able to come back on his own anymore, but he still feels sorry for him.)
Bits from the extras I watched so far:
- am I ever relieved they saw the light and abandoned the idea of an Aragorn/Sauron duel; as Jackson himself put it, it would have been demeaning to the spirit of the book
- Viggo Mortensen is crazy in an endearing way, but then, we knew that already from the earlier extras *g*
- see Dominic Monaghan breaking Real People Slashers' hearts by casually mentioning Billy Boyd's girlfriend, a ballet dancer, who helped him with Pippin's and Merry's dances
- see Viggo and Billy creating a new 'ship for those broken people nonetheless (the scene has to be seen to be believed, and it's documented on film; in the spirit of supporting Sean Astin during the shooting of Sam's and Rosie's wedding kiss, these two enterprising gents were on the set at the day, and suddenly Viggo grabbed Billy ("I saw stars") and smooched him with a vengeance)
- judging by the (great) extent of Christopher Lee apparing in the documentaries, those ruffled feathers about Saruman's cut last scene must have been smoothed over by now, which brings me to
- Christopher Lee pointing out to Peter Jackson how a man who gets stabbed in the back actually sounds like: no loud cry but a small umph noise because the air goes, which Mr. Lee said he happened to personally know (as Peter Jackson points out and as some film afficiniados might now, Christopher Lee was working for some British secret ops in WWII)
- Sir Edmund Hillary coming to visit the set, and director and cast alike all becoming fanboys - they are cute when they do this!
Now, checking on Godot again...
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-12-11 01:59 am (UTC)So, I will have to wait, but your comments give me a nice sense of anticipation.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-11 03:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-11 04:15 am (UTC)I have to say that I've only seen part of the documentaries on the sets we have. Hubby is not interested, and I rarely watch TV on my own. But I may do it now, since I adore Christoper Lee.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-11 02:26 am (UTC)Didn't they just. It made so much sense of Theoden's self-doubt in the cinematic version, which just didn't gel with the way he was at the end of The Two Towers. I think Gandalf was remembering what he'd done to Frodo for the rest of the film. I would have to watch again but I felt that the balance shifted between Gandalf and Aragorn from that moment and Gandalf became the one with doubts whereas Aragorn was increasingly more confident and certain. Just an impression. And I really liked the change in Grima's character too.
Again with the heresy, the House of Healing scene between her and Faramir just didn't play out convincingly to me.
It was a lovely scene but there wasn't enough of it. Trouble was it was in danger of becoming a film about Eowyn, Faramir, Pippin and to a lesser extent Merry, in places, so I can see why it had to be short and it would have interrupted the climax of the film. In lots of ways I don't mind too much as it keeps the book version clear in my head.
Can't understand why movie-only fans complain nobody important dies in the last chapter - what's Theoden? A spear carrier? The quiet dignity, the affection for his niece, the self-doubt (a filmic addition, yes, but as with Aragorn, it works)... he's one of my favourite characaters.
Exactly! I've heard "only Theoden" too and it annoys me no end and it will annoy me even more after the EE has added to the portrayal of him overcoming the self-doubt. Sniffles for Theoden...
It was wonderful and I'm both exhilarated and sad that it's over.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-11 03:08 am (UTC)No, I had the same impression. Which makes sense in terms of Aragorn's development - he ends the first film having committed himself to becoming King during Boromir's death, then second actually earning that by fighting with the Rohirrim. By the time the third film comes along, his course is set.
People dismissing Theoden's death:
Exactly! I've heard "only Theoden" too and it annoys me no end and it will annoy me even more after the EE has added to the portrayal of him overcoming the self-doubt. Sniffles for Theoden...
From the moment when he appeared in the extended version of the Isengard scene, got messed with by Saruman and told Grima he was a man of Rohan once, I fell in love with him all over again. Wahhhh!
no subject
Date: 2004-12-11 02:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-11 03:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-11 05:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-11 05:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-11 09:20 am (UTC)As for Grima, your thoughts on him are interesting. I didn't find him despicable in the books, but that's pretty much only because I'm used to ignoring what Tolkien wants the reader to believe and looking at what actually happens.
I did think Brad Dourif did an excellent job in that extended scene; in fact, the way in which his face was struggling to show that the character was good and would do anything to get away, despite his lack of lines, seemed weirdly emblematic of the Grima character, who ironically is often left voiceless. I am at an utter loss why Legolas shot him, however. The hobbits had the excuse of being jumpy and generally shocked by violence; Legolas sure doesn't.
Reminds me of a Grima entry (http://www.livejournal.com/users/kakodaimon/80939.html) I did awhile back. I maintain that he and Eowyn are two sides of the same coin.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-11 09:27 am (UTC)And yes, word on Brad Dourif!
no subject
Date: 2004-12-11 10:07 am (UTC)Your review's making me even more impatient. ;-)
no subject
Date: 2004-12-11 10:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-11 10:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-13 04:16 am (UTC)Ditto with you on Theoden. *cheers* I'll admit to disliking him immensely when I first watched Two Towers, but needless to say, that changed. But one thing that's left me unsatisfied is his relationship with Eomer: the books made it clear he loved them both as his own children. I'd hoped the extended DVD would address this relationship.