Wonder Woman (Film Review)

[selenak]

Wonder Woman was a very enjoyable comic book movie. I haven't read any of the WW comics or any others featuring her, so I had no other versions to compare this Diana to. What immediately struck me, though, was the difference to the other recent DC movies. Because it seems this particular director and scriptwriter (writers?) finally managed to chuck the moroseness that passes for depth out of the window and instead came up with, oh wonder, a heroine who enjoys what and who she is and is an unabashed, heart-on-her-sleeve do-gooder. Also, she's kind. Not many people in the superhero business are, especially after the 80s. She has a learning arc, and I thought the balance between naivete, learning about the darker side of the 'verse and keeping core beliefs regardless was well struck.

The trailers had me a bit worried because of the WWI setting, this war being not one prone to good versus bad stories, and I was concerned that they simply made it I instead of II to avoid the inevitable Captain America comparisons and completely ignore the bloody mess the "Great War" was. Turns out the script actually made WWI story and themes relevant. Mind you, it needed still a great deal of handwavium. Our heroine and sidekick/love interest sail from the Mediterranian - somewhere near Turkey - to London in what appears to be one night. In the autumn of 1918, with the war still going on. Even if we take Steve Trevor's throwaway line that someone helped them - cut to steamboat ahead of their sailing boat, implication that it tugged them, I guess? - into account, that's...well, as I said. Earth geography must be different. Then there's Ludendorff, who in rl lived until 1937 and is infamous mainly for two things, a) being a key pusher of the so called "Dolchstoßlegende", the myth that the German army could have won if those evil social democrats and peaceniks at home hadn't stabbed the army in the back by insisting on a surrender, and b) being the other leader of Hitler's 1923 attempted and failed coup in Munich. Becoming a DC villain serves him right, couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, but if he'd simply shot officers for pointing out the miserable state of both Germany and the German army to him, he'd have been courtmartialed, despite being near the end of the war one of the two or three top generals, and if he'd gassed the rest of the commanding generals, well, not even his reputation could have saved him from arrest and execution. The German Imperial army was no one's idea of a democratic organization, and was far too prone to authority worship, but seriously, it did have rules, and that stuff wasn't on. (As I said, Luddendorf was more the type to poison people's minds with propaganda, not their bodies, after making sure he personally wouldn't be blamed for the surrender despite having practically led the army near the end.) Not to mention: was the general who argued with him about a surrender before he gassed the lot supposed to be Hindenburg? In which case DC killed off both Hindenburg and Luddendorf in 1918, which is... err, interesting, given I assume even DC has Hitler still happening. I suppose someone else aids his rise in the early 20s (Luddendorf), and someone else first wins over him in the 1930 presidential elections (Hindenburg beat Hitler there) and later appoints him chancellor in 1933. Oh, and where on earth were the Gala guests supposed to come from in November 1918, especially the evening dressed women? The Gala takes place in Belgium, according to the movie. A few days before the war ends. Now the rich were as always doing better than the poor, but still, the situation in Germany in November 1918 was catastrophic, and making a trip to Belgium (with what, btw? Where did those cars come from? Petrol was rationed! And trains were full of wounded soldiers) for a party would have been - well, impossible. And what's this talk about "the Kaiser" agreeing, or not, to the surrender? The guy had other worries. The November revolution was in full swing, and by November 9th, the Chancellor officially announced Wilhelm's (and Wilhelm's son's) abdication, while Social Democrat Philip Scheidemann announced the beginning of the ill-fated Weimar Republic. And... never mind. Like I said. Clearly, history went differently in DC world.

The reason why I didn't mind all this is that Diana's big realisation moment could not have happened in WWII and was very WWI specific; to wit: That both sides in this war have the drive to slaughter each other in them, independent from divine influence. Which is, btw, why it's important that Ares' human disguise didn't turn out to be Luddendorf, without this making L. less of a villain, but a (completely) fictional British politician named Sir Patrick Morgan. (The WWI poets would approve.)

Other things: liked the cast and the ensemble, really liked that Diana being a warrior and Diana being kind and compassionate was never presented as paradoxical or in conflict with each other but as one driving the other, wished Snyder's lasting legacy, the slow mo fighting, would finally stop but wasn't bothered enough in this instance to mind, and was grateful that for all the "fish out of water" humor, Diana wasn't presented as childlike or somehow unaware of sexuality just because she hadn't been in contact with a man before.

In conclusion: a deserved hit.

P.S. Now I remember I did encounter Diana in the comics before, in a flashback. In Mike Carey's story about Lyta Hall post Sandman, The Furies, it's revealed Lyta is the daughter of Diana and Steve Trevor. (It's a single panel, a memory that haunts Lyta of her early childhood and her mother.) I suppose that makes Diana the grandmother of one of the Endless?

Comments

[vaysh]

Looking forward even more to seeing WW. Thank you for, as always, such a detailed review.

[selenak]

You're welcome!

[musesfool]

I chose to handwave the travel time thing as Themyscira moves around and therefore where it was when Steve landed and where it was when they left were two different places. Alternately, the godly shield around it can transport them closer to wherever they need to be while concealing wherever the island actually is from anyone who has found it once and tries to go back.

[selenak]

Now that, within the genre, makes more sense. Though the distance between Turkey and the Northern Sea is still - never mind, magic.

[ide_cyan]

There might be a frozen donkey wheel somewhere on the island!

[selenak]

Benjamin Linus approves of this comment. :)

[makamu]

I am not a comics person at all, whether it is DC or Marvel, but based on your review I think I might watch WW once it is out on DVD/the usual streaming suspects.

Re your comments on the alternative German history: I am just reading up on this period for one of my fanfic projects and now I am wondering whether the Weimar Republic would not have been a lot less ill-fated without both of the old generals sort of pushing the Dolchstoßlegende and strengthening anti-democratic elements in Germany from the get-go?

[selenak]

Hm, you know, it just might have had a better chance. There'd be still a lot of factors against it - the Versailles Treaty, the Great Depression, the whole authoritarian mindset had been internalized since 1870 at the latest and wouldn't have suddenly gone away. But maybe without Ludendorff lending him an aura of "conservative" respectability, Hitler would have gotten an actual prison sentence in 1923 instead of those ridiculous few months, and maybe that would have been enough to let the Nazis remain a provincial fringe party. Plus maybe instead of Hindenburg, someone would have become President who actually believed in the republic, which Hindenburg the Monarchist definitely did not, and that hypothetical someone would never have appointed first a bunch of stupid Junkers and then Hitler as Chancellor.

[makamu]

Can I just say I love your icon?!

There'd be still a lot of factors against it - the Versailles Treaty, the Great Depression, the whole authoritarian mindset had been internalized since 1870 at the latest and wouldn't have suddenly gone away

Oh, most definitely! The road to democracy would still have been hard (personally, I always think that is still an aftershock of the ultimate failure of 1848 and how it failed. Oh, and yes, ridiculous is the perfect desriptor for Hitler's prison sentence. As for Hindenburg and the Monarchists: I wonder if in this hypothetical alt!Germany, it might have made sense to nominate Stresemann? IIRC, he used to be a monarchist and skeptical of the republic in the first few years as well, so he might have won the skeptics over.

[selenak]

Oh, Stresemann would have been great as President! And keep Heinrich Brüning longer as Chancellor, his programs were just beginning to pay off. (Contrary to legend, it was Brüning, not Hitler, who started building the Autobahn, for example.)

Ideally, Alt!Germany would also still have had murdered politicians like Walter Rathenau and Kurt Eisner, if the political climate was a bit less toxic from the get go.

Icon: it's my go to one for discussing German affairs. :) Also it was made for me.

[makamu]

Well, it is a great icon for German discussions, both because the two of them were different in some respects and alike in others and because of the way they represent different ways of approaching the question of what it means to be German that shaped the debate before and after the founding of the Reich.

See, you learn something new every day: sadly, our history lessons stopped with the end of WWI in 1919 (I think the uprising in Kiel was the last thing we covered in any detail) and my Leistungskurs did the Third Reich but not the Weimar Republic,so I had never heard the name of Brüning before this! And now I want to explore what alt!Germany would look like in more detail (if the whole thing were not so damn depressing, considering what *did* happen...)

[grimorie]

I really love your reviews and I was looking forward to your review of this movie. I was reading about WWI and wondered the same thing since DC did seem to have revised history but in a way that maybe, canceled out the effects of any change? Maybe?

But I really do love that they used WWI for Diana instead of WWII serrico has a great post here (that I think is similar to what you wrote) about why thematically Diana fits in WWI.

As for Themyscira, I've kind of thought that the island sort of phase shifted in and out of mortal plane so there's no fixed point where it's anchored to.

The Furies, it's revealed Lyta is the daughter of Diana and Steve Trevor.

Wait! Wait! Really! I didn't know that! That is awesome!

[bats_eye]

"The Furies, it's revealed Lyta is the daughter of Diana and Steve Trevor.

Wait! Wait! Really! I didn't know that! That is awesome!"

Lyta as a character was introduced as part of a group of second generation heroes who were all the sons or daughters of previous heroes. (This was back pre crisis when dc had an earth 1 where batmand, superman and wonder woman emerged in the 1960-70s and an earth 2 where they emerged in the 30s-40s and had since retired).

By the time she turned up in Sandman the crisis had happened, there was now only one wonder woman and her origin was rewritten but that was the original concept.

[grimorie]

Thanks for explaining! I knew Lyta because of the Sandman comic, I didn't (or forgot? it's been a while since I read Sandman) know about her parentage!

[selenak]

bats_eye has already replied re: Lyta's origins; btw, if you haven't read Mike Carey's The Furies yet, I can reccommend it, it's a one shot about Lyta post Sandman saga trying to come to terms with herself. The outward action/threat is supplied courtesy of Kronus (spelled like this, not a typo) who is after the Furies and tries to use Lyta against them, and the big climax is an encounter between Lyta and Daniel!Dream. (It inspired me to write a crossover story called Ouroborous in which post-Angel Connor meets post Sandman Lyta.)At one point earlier in the story, Lyta is still on the run from Kronus through landscapes of her mind shaped from memories, and that's how we come across the panel showing Lyta as a girl on the beach with her mother who is definitely Diana in trademark colors, because that's the last memory she (Lyta) has of her.

...now what Diana would have to say to Morpheus is definitely something I'd love to read. :) (Also to Daniel, but that's another issue.)

[bats_eye]

I think Ouroborous is why I ended up buying the furies.

So I am doubly grateful for that story, I suppose.

[grimorie]

This is amazing, thank you for the comics rec!

...now what Diana would have to say to Morpheus is definitely something I'd love to read.

Yes, same here!

[hannah]

As my brother and I said, if you're going for an anthropomorphic personification of war as a general concept, you can't do much better than an upper-class white British man.

[selenak]

With the caveat that I don't want to excuse the German contribution to WWI (and the build up to same) in any way (I'm of the "Germany, Russia, Austria, Britain, France: all guilty" school): indeed.

[d_generate_girl]

Oh man, good catch on Lyta Hall and her connection to Diana and Steve!

And yeah, one of my favorite bits was my cinema-going companions being incredibly shocked that Sir Patrick was Ares (which I'd guessed, when he started being AWFULLY HELPFUL).

[selenak]

With some tweaks due to the WWI setting re: Lyta's age and when she and Hector were in the Dreaming, I suppose you could now write Sandman/movieverse crossovers. For starters, I want to hear Diana's opinion on the Endless in general and Dream (both Morpheus and later Daniel incarnation) in particiular.:)

[shadowkat]

I have a feeling the writers didn't know any of that history when they wrote this. I didn't, but weirdly not a lot of time is spent on WWI in American schools, WWII yes. We get the standard run-down, but not must on the specifics. So a lot of the things you listed aren't common knowledge. (Believe it or not, I have co-workers who don't know who Winston Churchill was, which blows my mind.) What most of us do know about it is unlike WWII, everybody was equally bad. There really were no good guys and bad guys necessarily in that war. And it most likely lead to or resulted in WWII. I wonder sometimes if there would have been a WWII if there wasn't a WWI.

I loved the origin story being placed in WWI as opposed to WWII - which is where it is placed in the comics. (The comics were created and written by an American psychologist and feminist in the 1940s, who based the character of Wonder Woman largely on Margaret Sanger, who also had a thing for, well, he deliberately put in the dominatrix outfit and gear.) So, there's a couple of interesting choices they made - that diverted from the comics -- WWI and starting in England, no the US.

I think WWI works better thematically -- because it explains better the anti-War theme. Which is a bit harder to push with WWII due to the craziness of the Nazis and the need to stop them at all costs. (Although everyone was horrible in WWII as well. )
And the twist -- that it's the British politician who is allegedly pushing peace, meanwhile whispering war in everyone's ears and pushing them to acts which further it was brilliant and an interesting commentary on how the British's own actions up to and including the first and second world wars in a way also created them.

I thought it was a very good anti-war movie.

Also I agree -- I loved how they portrayed Diana...as kind. There's good banter between her and Steve, and their romance worked. Well cast and one of the better written comic book movies to date. A far cry from the direness and misanthropy that DC had sunk into...in part due to Chris Nolan's take on Batman, and Synder's attempt to follow that lead. I'm hoping Whedon continue the more light-hearted trend with Justice League. (Apparently Whedon did a little script doctoring on both WW and Justice League.) Not sure if you saw that Whedon's script was leaked online? It's not very good and I'm glad this was made instead.

[selenak]

No, I haven't read it, due to not wanting to be spoiled just in case any of it would be used.

[zahrawithaz.livejournal.com]

I think you're right about US education skimping on WWI, but I will say that in my fairly terrible white working class high school, when we inevitably ran out of time in the US history survey class, my teacher made an unusual call. He reasoned that we would learn about WWII through pop culture and other things, but that WWI was important and under-studied, so we learned US history through Reconstruction, then leapt to WWI, then leapt to the Vietnam War.

I have some critiques of this--among other things, I think history does not equal "war" and we should have gotten the Gilded Age and the mass immigration of the early 20th c that was responsible for all our grandparents being in the country--but I do see his logic.

[shadowkat]

I think part of the problem was that they felt the need to rewind each year and start with the explorers and the revolutionary war....I don't know what they did in your school, but in mine, they would spend the first half of the year on the Explorers, the Revolutionary War, and the second half on The period leading up to and including The Civil War, and then we'd get a brief bit on the period after the Civil War leading up to WWII.

You are correct most of the time was spent on Wars, and up to approximately the mid-1970s, the history text-books were "white-washed", and written in a fashion to justify the nasty actions of white Europeans. Somewhere around 1978 or 1980 they began to change, and we spent a lot of time discussing slavery, the Native Americans, and the horrors of that period. Also sometime around the 1980s, the history text stopped being so complimentary of the US and their allies in WWI and WWII, not to mention Korea and Vietnam.

But, they ran out of time, in part, because there was a lot of focus on the Wars, and in particular on the American Revolution and Civil Wars. By the time I reached the 7th grade, if not before, I had the section from t1492 -1778 memorized. I remember being thrilled when I landed in a good school public district and got European History. (I started out in one of the lowest ranked public school districts in the US and moved to one of the highest ranked school districts in the US. ) And it should be noted that I was in public schools in the 1970s and 80s, and college/grad school in the 80s/90s. There is a big difference in timing.

I was discussing this with my mother, whose text books were far more white-washed than mine were. Pre-1966/67, US text books romanticized the West and the World Wars, along with the US's role in them.

[likeadeuce]

I knew I could count on you for the German historical perspective!

I enjoyed this a great deal (though I was so tired when I saw it that I 1. definitely fell asleep briefly during the first big battle so I was never sure exactly what Steve Trevor's backstory was 2. was prone to be emotional and 3. was willing to go along with whatever twists the plot took and thinking THAT WAS INCREDIBLE but maybe just because I couldn't think ahead?

[selenak]

It's my thing, I suppose. (That's why I thought my Agent Carter story was really really obvious.)

re: Steve Trevor's backstory - other than being a spy who was undercover as a German pilot and there saw Ludendorff and Dr. Mora plotting, we don't hear anything, I think. (Mind you, they wisely avoided letting Chris Pine speak German. I strongly suspect the result otherwise would have entirely broken my suspension of disbelief with this whole undercover thing:)

[likeadeuce]

So wait, I swear Steve was on some kind of redemption arc that had to do with something in his past that I thought I had missed -- did I just project that? ha ha. Anyway, going to see it again Tuesday, will see how it holds up on second viewing.

[selenak]

You were definitely projecting. In the scene where Diana has found the poison gas ravaged place, he says he's as guilty as the rest, but that's the first we hear of him feeling guilty in any way, and it's not specific to any particular deeds.

[sholio]

We just saw this today, and I really wondered how this would read to someone who actually is German, because the movie's general push to make the Germans into The Baddies really didn't sit well with me -- though I enjoyed the subversion later on -- so I appreciated reading your take on it! It was definitely a fun comic book movie, and I really did enjoy it despite getting jarred by the historical implausibility; it felt more of a piece with the DC TV shows (with their generally good-hearted heroes and optimistic view of human nature) than with the recent DC movies.

[selenak]

Well, early on I had my "oh really?" expression when Steve said "these are the bad guys, I am the good guy" (though it was ic for him to say so) and the Germans pursuing him just started shooting at anyone on the beach instead of even attempting to make contact with what was clearly not a part of any army they knew of. But then in the scene which I critisized for Ludendorff's implausible behavior we saw the German soldiers in general looking miserable and being in bad condition, and I thought, okay, movie, maybe youre going for something more complicated. And it did.

[jesuswasbatman]

Laughed out loud at your comments about intolerance of supervillainous behaviour in the German army. It reminded me of my own response to the hilarious depiction of the Church of England in the manga series Hellsing.

[selenak]

:) Well, not that I want to defend the Wehrmacht in any way, but just, no. Plausible fiendish actions for Ludendorff to undertake:

- ordering guys like the protesting Captain and men who listen to him to lead the next hopeless charge where they're sure to get slaughtered; if they refuse, you haven have a rule-dictated reason to execute them, and these guys loved pointing to orders

- war profiteering

- ordering civilians to be executed as enemy agents

Implausible fiendish deeds: what he does in the movie. Ditto for the rest of the army being apparantly just okay with L. killing a whole room full of generals by gas without even bothering with a cover story that blames someone else for it.

[zahrawithaz.livejournal.com]

I loved this movie--not only did I break my general embargo on superhero films for it, but I saw in 2x in the theatre, which I don't think I've ever done before--and your review is excellent.

And I'm slightly smug that as ignorant as I am of post-medieval German history, most of your laundry list of geographic and political errors actually occurred to me while watching!