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selenakFirstly, happy birthday to ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
swmbo! (Points to today's icon.)
Secondly, methinks I have a new show. Now I watched the pilot of the original Battlestar Galactica in all its campy 70s glory, and I think one or two episodes, but it never did much to me. When rumours about a remake or reimagining started to appear, I was totally indifferent either way, until I heard Ronald Moore was involved. Whom I loved as a writer on both TNG and DS9. So I became curious. Once the series started in Britain, a positive buzz began to appear. Now, thanks tohmpf and the fact the miniseries is released on DVD, I've watched said miniseries and the first two episodes of the 2004 Battlestar Galactica, and I consider myself hooked. Mr. Moore, he of the intelligent writing, is in fine form, and so are the actors he picked.
As I wrote at some length about the problems of uniformely bad enemies whom one can dispatch without a thought, and how Star Trek by and large managed to avoid that, let me start with the Cylons. As far as I can recall, in the 70s Galactica they were just, well, more impressive looking Daleks. Out to exterminate humankind. None too bright. As for Baltar, played by John Colicos (ah, Kang!), he was simply a despicable traitor, though just what he thought he was getting for selling humanity out to extermination wasn't quite clear.
In the new series, the Cylons still are - as far as I have seen - out to wipe out humanity, but instead of Daleks, they now have to appear traits in common with the replicants of Blade Runner origin. (Except in Blade Runner, the replicants were the hunted.) Not just because there are now human-looking models around in addition to the old fashioned-ones, but because of the backstory presented (created asslaves help for the colony worlds, evolving into sentience and rebelling), and the fact that some of them don't even know they're not human. (Which reminds me - aside from Blade Runner, this is reminiscent of the DS9 episode where we follow O'Brien seemingly stranded into a bizarre pod world only to find out this O'Brien, who thinks himself the real one, is actually a programmed android. Must check whether Ron Moore wrote Whispers.)
Then there is the interesting idea Moore had to make the humans polytheists and the Cylons monotheists. And not in a cheap cliché "nice tolerant pagans versus fanatical fundementalist Christians/Muslims/whatever" kind of way, as does happen in post modern fantasy quite often. Finding sci-fi that uses religion without preaching either way is rare, but here it is.
The humans, too, are fare more interesting than the ones I recall. Okay, so yet another conflicted father/son team wasn't exactly original (as Andraste once said, it's hard to find anyone in the genre who doesn't have Daddy issues), but the Adamas have so much else going for them. Blame my recent RotK: EE viewing, but Edward James Olmos is Theoden in space. And I like the relationships both he and his son are developing with the President. Speaking of the President, that's one of Moore's greatest original contributions to the set-up. Not "just" because she's a woman, but because she's a civilian female leader. In this kind of set-up, it would be all too easy to go for a military-run society as the only way to survive. Instead, Moore brings up this very point as a danger which both Adama and the President are aware of and are determined not to let come to pass. Yay for female leaders demonstrating strength and compassion, not having to prove themselves via shooting guns together with the boys and for being actually right re: the war being over and flight, not a heroic fight-to-the-death, being the sensible option if humanity is to survive.
Not, mind you, that I object to women fighting in the traditional way. I like Kara Thrace, the female Starbuck who apparantly had the original's fans up in arms before the new show started. Not as much as I love the President, but I like her a lot, the comradery between her and Lee Adama, and she carries the swashbuckling of with style. The scene where she plays poker with Baltar had some interesting UST vibes - I wonder whether that will go somewhere.
Which brings me to the new and much improved Gaius Baltar. Having him as someone who did not consciously sell out humanity but once he discovers what's going on is unabashedly selfish and worried about his own skin first of all makes him a far more interesting player than the old Evil Overlord Wannabe. So far, he seems to fulfill the trickster rather than the villain position, someone who can both damage and help, with the viewers not knowing which it is going to be in any given situation. Also, someone clearly watched Farscape. Assuming that Baltar's first guess was wrong and Number Six isn't a hallicunation of his, I'm wondering whether she, like Harvey, is a chip-produced clone with its own identity (as Harvey wasn't Scorpius), or a genuine projection of the real thing back on Caprica. But with the Cylons and their immortality due to body transfer, who can say? I predict some interesting "what constitutes identity" questions along the way.
In conclusion: I like and want more. And desperately hope it won't get cancelled!
Thirdly: I'm listening to this superb collection compiled bymogigraphia. You're right, this is the definite Londo and G'Kar soundtrack.
swmbo! (Points to today's icon.) Secondly, methinks I have a new show. Now I watched the pilot of the original Battlestar Galactica in all its campy 70s glory, and I think one or two episodes, but it never did much to me. When rumours about a remake or reimagining started to appear, I was totally indifferent either way, until I heard Ronald Moore was involved. Whom I loved as a writer on both TNG and DS9. So I became curious. Once the series started in Britain, a positive buzz began to appear. Now, thanks to
hmpf and the fact the miniseries is released on DVD, I've watched said miniseries and the first two episodes of the 2004 Battlestar Galactica, and I consider myself hooked. Mr. Moore, he of the intelligent writing, is in fine form, and so are the actors he picked.As I wrote at some length about the problems of uniformely bad enemies whom one can dispatch without a thought, and how Star Trek by and large managed to avoid that, let me start with the Cylons. As far as I can recall, in the 70s Galactica they were just, well, more impressive looking Daleks. Out to exterminate humankind. None too bright. As for Baltar, played by John Colicos (ah, Kang!), he was simply a despicable traitor, though just what he thought he was getting for selling humanity out to extermination wasn't quite clear.
In the new series, the Cylons still are - as far as I have seen - out to wipe out humanity, but instead of Daleks, they now have to appear traits in common with the replicants of Blade Runner origin. (Except in Blade Runner, the replicants were the hunted.) Not just because there are now human-looking models around in addition to the old fashioned-ones, but because of the backstory presented (created as
Then there is the interesting idea Moore had to make the humans polytheists and the Cylons monotheists. And not in a cheap cliché "nice tolerant pagans versus fanatical fundementalist Christians/Muslims/whatever" kind of way, as does happen in post modern fantasy quite often. Finding sci-fi that uses religion without preaching either way is rare, but here it is.
The humans, too, are fare more interesting than the ones I recall. Okay, so yet another conflicted father/son team wasn't exactly original (as Andraste once said, it's hard to find anyone in the genre who doesn't have Daddy issues), but the Adamas have so much else going for them. Blame my recent RotK: EE viewing, but Edward James Olmos is Theoden in space. And I like the relationships both he and his son are developing with the President. Speaking of the President, that's one of Moore's greatest original contributions to the set-up. Not "just" because she's a woman, but because she's a civilian female leader. In this kind of set-up, it would be all too easy to go for a military-run society as the only way to survive. Instead, Moore brings up this very point as a danger which both Adama and the President are aware of and are determined not to let come to pass. Yay for female leaders demonstrating strength and compassion, not having to prove themselves via shooting guns together with the boys and for being actually right re: the war being over and flight, not a heroic fight-to-the-death, being the sensible option if humanity is to survive.
Not, mind you, that I object to women fighting in the traditional way. I like Kara Thrace, the female Starbuck who apparantly had the original's fans up in arms before the new show started. Not as much as I love the President, but I like her a lot, the comradery between her and Lee Adama, and she carries the swashbuckling of with style. The scene where she plays poker with Baltar had some interesting UST vibes - I wonder whether that will go somewhere.
Which brings me to the new and much improved Gaius Baltar. Having him as someone who did not consciously sell out humanity but once he discovers what's going on is unabashedly selfish and worried about his own skin first of all makes him a far more interesting player than the old Evil Overlord Wannabe. So far, he seems to fulfill the trickster rather than the villain position, someone who can both damage and help, with the viewers not knowing which it is going to be in any given situation. Also, someone clearly watched Farscape. Assuming that Baltar's first guess was wrong and Number Six isn't a hallicunation of his, I'm wondering whether she, like Harvey, is a chip-produced clone with its own identity (as Harvey wasn't Scorpius), or a genuine projection of the real thing back on Caprica. But with the Cylons and their immortality due to body transfer, who can say? I predict some interesting "what constitutes identity" questions along the way.
In conclusion: I like and want more. And desperately hope it won't get cancelled!
Thirdly: I'm listening to this superb collection compiled by
mogigraphia. You're right, this is the definite Londo and G'Kar soundtrack.
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no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 08:30 am (UTC)Daddy Adama and Thrace also have an interesting and unusual relationship, I think. Sort of movie-verse Theoden-Eowyn, in a way.
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Date: 2004-12-18 08:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 09:17 am (UTC)Several decades ago, my Dad used to be an avid watcher of the old series, so I've got some rather vague childhood memories about Pa Cartwright in a blue uniform and a couple of weird looking robots *g*
I'd love to see what the new version is about.
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Date: 2004-12-18 09:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-20 01:35 pm (UTC)That would be the most kind. Go right ahead and send. I'm really curious about the new series :-)
Oh, and while we are speaking about sending, please allow me to pose a short logistic question of rather hypothetical nature *g*
If a certain person (S) were to send a certain christmas-sy item to another certain person (T), using the old-fashioned, non-virtual postal system of the Federal Republic of Germany, should S
- send the parcel to T's usual home address ?
- or should S assume that T is residing with her aged but wonderful parents over the holidays, and should therefore decide to send the parcel directly to the home of said parents?
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Date: 2004-12-20 01:50 pm (UTC)You know...
Date: 2005-01-12 12:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 09:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 01:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 02:06 pm (UTC)(Grins at thought of Avon's son turning out to be an angsty ultraviolent juvenile delinquent who could bond with Dad through beating up Federation troopers.)
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Date: 2004-12-18 02:11 pm (UTC)Me too. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure there is some fanfic with Vila's son or daughter turning up around, and I do know there is an entire saga featuring Avon & son (who bonds with Blake, natch).
(Grins at thought of Avon's son turning out to be an angsty ultraviolent juvenile delinquent who could bond with Dad through beating up Federation troopers.)
Raised by Del Grant.*g* You're evil.
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Date: 2004-12-18 02:18 pm (UTC)Any daughter-Sues turning up?
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Date: 2004-12-18 02:21 pm (UTC)The thing is, nobody would have been surprised at Servalan seducing US!Avon's son, so at least there would not have been indignant posts on message boards.*g*
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Date: 2004-12-18 02:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 02:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-19 04:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 11:45 am (UTC)I recently rewatched the entire old show, and a couple of things really struck me.
1. It's a lot more promising than the first season of Next Gen, which followed it about six years later. Uneven, with many of the same problems as the first season of Next Gen, but overall has some things going for it.
2. It's the first US sci fi show with character permanence. Things happen, and they're not forgotten about next week. When Apollo's wife dies, he's depressed and lonely the rest of the season, and people make frequent references to his bereavement.
3. Coming out between Star Wars and Empire, it's the first US show to feature women in non-babe uniforms. Not flowing dresses. Not miniskirts. But shirt and pants, the same clothes the men are wearing in the same jobs.
4. It has multi show plot arcs, something that takes nearly 10 years to come back with the middle-season shows of Next Gen, and isn't really developed as much as BG does until DS9. Interestingly enough, this was part of the rationale for cancelling it. "People won't remember from week to week."
If you haven't seen the whole thing, I do recommend it. Yes, Baltar is cheesy. And the season is uneven, like the first season of most Trek shows, but it has some really seminal bits.
Not to mention that I loved it!
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Date: 2004-12-18 01:32 pm (UTC)(Also, loyal Fiver that I am I have to insist that B5 did the multi show plot arcs before DS9 did them.*g*)
Cancellation: sigh. Same old song. Still, alas. It's a minor miracle that both DS9 and B5 got all the seasons they wanted.
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Date: 2004-12-19 10:39 am (UTC)Cancellation, yes. I think the second season of Battlestar would have been fascinating. They were setting up some very interesting things in the last couple of episodes, especially what would have been the season cliffhanger.
Of course my favorite character is Cassie.....
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Date: 2004-12-19 04:20 pm (UTC)I don't think I had a favourite character in the old one. (Cassie was one of Starbuck's two love interests, right?) Being entertained by the pilot and the two or so episodes, but not really emotionally touched as I was. In the new one, right now it's Laura Roslin, the President, but you know, one of the elements that made me fell in love is that all the women are as interesting and captivating as the male characters. (I wouldn't be surprised if you discovered a liking for Number Six, the Cylon.)
One of the reasons I'm so enchanted by Ms Roslin right now: I just love how she symbolizes the civilian pov without being painted as rosy-eyed or deluded or as an incompetent politician who ought to let the military folk do their job. In the big crucial question in the pilot, she was right and Adama was wrong, and that's admitted. And they're establishing a mutually respectful relationship, with some give and take on both sides. And great philosophical exchanges with very topical themes.
"There is a reason why the military and the police are two seperate institutions. The military fights the enemies of the state. The police serves to protect the people. But if the military become the police, then the people all too often become the enemy."
"I won't let that happen.."
And did I mention that she's smart and vulnerable and has the dignity and grace and humour Martin Sheen has in West Wing?
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Date: 2004-12-18 11:55 am (UTC)Yes, I think I do too, which is a huge relief. I'm in the opposite position to you having seen the series but not the mini-series (I believe it might be a Christmas present from hubby *g*). The series has had some less strong episodes but also some crackingly good ones and the characters are developing nicely.
And desperately hope it won't get cancelled!
Yes, that's the big danger. The producers are already begging people not to download it off the internet but to watch it on TV.
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Date: 2004-12-18 01:26 pm (UTC)Stupid question.
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Date: 2004-12-18 01:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 01:50 pm (UTC)No, seriously - yay for Sky One!
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Date: 2004-12-18 01:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 01:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 01:18 pm (UTC)I have my usual grumble about the only person with a British accent being the villain, but Baltar is so wonderfully despicable, rank with moral cowardice and venal corruption, that I can't mind all that much.
There are some fascinating plot threads developing too, which I won't mention as it would be spoilery. But yeah, good series. :)
I'm very happy you're enjoying the CDs!
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Date: 2004-12-18 01:24 pm (UTC)I feel for you, because you've got to admit that if it's not a Brit, it's a German.*g* BTW, I just read the interview with the Baltar and the Apollo actor in SFX and was amused to discover Adama Junior is also British, but was instructed to play with an American accent, as he's one of the good guys. But hey - we'll always have the most British-accented Frenchman in space ever as a glorious exception!
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Date: 2004-12-18 01:37 pm (UTC)All in all, it's probably better than the way Brit TV used to stereotype Americans as loud mouthed, stupid and arrogant people anyway. I'm glad that has mostly stopped now.
German accents seem very unusual on TV these days, unless it's a war/spy series anyway. This would be some kind of prejudice through exclusion thing, I imagine. :(
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Date: 2004-12-18 01:46 pm (UTC)Am continuing to revel in the soundtrack. You're a peach.
popping in with a random comment...
Date: 2004-12-18 01:24 pm (UTC)geek!alert
In Whispers the fake Miles was a clone not an android.
/geek!alert
Re: popping in with a random comment...
Date: 2004-12-18 01:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 02:43 pm (UTC)Ohh, 26 Years - one of my favorite songs ever. Anything from Veda Hille's Spine cd is.
*happy sigh*
and now you make me want to wtch the new Battlestar Galatica!
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Date: 2004-12-18 02:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 02:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 06:12 pm (UTC)Finding sci-fi that uses religion without preaching either way is rare, but here it is.
Yeah, that caught my attention in the miniseries. Also the Adama/Adam thing, and the fact that there are 12 colonies/12 Battlestars/12 models of Cylons and a possible lost tribe/colony on Earth. And yet it's the Cylons who are more Judeo-Christian. I don't know where they're going with that idea, but I want to find out.
Blame my recent RotK: EE viewing, but Edward James Olmos is Theoden in space.
Totally. And like Theoden, I think he really helps to anchor the whole show and give it more weight. Yay for good acting.
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Date: 2004-12-18 06:24 pm (UTC)Regarding biblical allusions/parallels and contrasts - I think they pulled off a neat genderswitch here. Because Baltar is traditional Eve, and Six is the Serpent/Lucifer.
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Date: 2004-12-19 03:21 am (UTC)I was a huge fan of Battlestar Galactica. I will readily admit it had some campy parts and some elements that did could have been done better, but in 1978 it was some pretty groundbreaking stuff. (78 million people tuned in for the premier). For the last 25 years a very strong and loyal fanbase has kept the show alive in syndication, fan-fic, conventions, websites etc. Over the last 5 years there had been a large groundswell of support from fans, some original cast members, and some in the entertainment industry to bring the show back either in some form of continuation or remake, much like what happened with Star Trek. About 3 years ago, that started to happen. Brian Singer and Tom DeSanto (the people who did the X-Men movies), who were also huge fans of the original, were hired to bring it back as a continuation series for FOX. Sets were build, scripts were written, much of the original cast was brought back along with new actors and production was in full swing. The fan base was thrilled.....finally after being cut short (the original series was cancelled after only 1 season despite high ratings, due to escalating production costs) we were going to learn what had happened to these characters we had grown so attached to. Then the rug was pulled out from under us. After temporarily shutting down production after 9/11, USA Network, which was funding the production for FOX pulled the plug without warning or explanation. Shortly after that, the Sci-Fi Channel got involved in the production, and announced an all new "re-imagining" of the series with Ron Moore at the helm. The fan base knew of Ron Moore's work on Star Trek, but it wasn't until we heard what he had planned that we felt the collective wind knocked out of us.
It's more than just the character of Starbuck (now called Kara Thrace) being turned from male to female. The mini series that aired, and what I've heard of the new show (hasn't aired in the states yet, but I"ve read reviews) bears little or no resemblance to Battlestar Galactica. The characters have been totally ripped to shreds and bear no resemblence in thoughts, words or deeds to the originals. Sure it's called Battlestar Galactica, there is a ship with that name and they fly around in fighters called Vipers battleing bad guys called Cylons, but that's about it. The back story, culture, and mytholgical refrences have been watered down or removed completely. I watched the entire mini-series and by the end of it I was rooting for the Cylons.
Ron Moore claimed he was attempting to "re-invent" the genre of science fiction. Yet practially every aspect of his production was lifted from somewhere else. You already mentioned the Blade Runner parallel. He hired the same F/X company that did Firefly, and told them flat out "I want it to look just like Firefly" If you look carefully, you will see a lot of very similar set pieces and special effects, The Serenity herself even makes a cameo in one of the scenes before the Cylon attack.
All during the production Moore and the execs at the Sci-Fi channel ignored the fan outcry and complaints, and blew off the idea that the original show could have possibly been liked by anybody. That's the way they operate. Fans of Farscape and now of the Earthsea novels know how much respect they have for original source material and the fan base.
Right before the seires aired, Edward James Olmos said at a press conference, that if you were a fan of the original, not to watch the new one. It would be too painful. He was right. The fan base hasn't totally given up though. the since the original series producer has the feature film rights, we're hopeful that a feature film based on the original will be made someday. In the meantime we're hoping for the quick demise of this show that despite of a few cosmetic issues, has no business calling itself Battlestar Galactica.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-19 04:24 am (UTC)However, as a fan of myths I am used, and indeed treasure their retelling from very different perspectives. Even in ancient times - Sophocles' Electra and Euripides' Electra are quite different not just in nature but in circumstances, and share just the fact they both urge their brother to kill their mother. There is no "true" Electra, though. There are different takes. About twenty years ago, when as a teenager I was reading The Mists of Avalon for the first time, it was a fascinating experience precisely because then it was a completely new and different take on the Arthurian lore. Two or three years later I read Parke Godwin's Firelord, which was the same. All these two have in common is that they're set in Britain and people named Arthur, Morgan, Guenevre, and Lancelot show up, that along the way Arthur gets king and in the end dies after fighting with his son Mordred. The personalities, the way in between -completely different. Yet I love them both. I don't see it as mutually exclusive.
To return to this specific new show: I loved the miniseries - script, acting, everything about it. I loved the first two episodes. So I'll be rooting for its continuation. I refused to play the either/or game ten years ago when it was B5 and DS9, choosing to love them both instead (and fortunately for me, I got both). Partisanship to the detriment of another show was never my way, and I'm not about to start now. Since
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Date: 2004-12-19 10:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-19 01:56 pm (UTC)And yes, I understand the difference you're pointing out between the unholy good son, bad son plan and an intelligent rebooting.*g*
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Date: 2004-12-19 11:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-20 12:42 pm (UTC)I hope you continue to find enjoyment in the new series. Since you will be taking the opportunity to revisit the original at some point, allow me to recommend what I believe are the best episodes:
Saga of a Star World - The two part premier (although on the DVD they have it as one long episode. The audio commentary with the actors who played Apollo, Starbuck and Boomer is a lot of fun as well.)
Lost Planet of the Gods - Provides a lot of mythological backstory of the series with some themes that are very similar to what came later in Stargate-SG1
The Living Legend - Probably the best episode of the series
War of the Gods -
The Hand of God - The last episode
Hope you enjoy them when you can.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-20 06:51 pm (UTC)