selenak: (Vulcan)
[personal profile] selenak
Hard to judge, since it's evidently the first part of a two parter, and a lot of set up without pay off (yet), but here we go:



Stamets now shows signs of being afflicted by functioning as a living space ship drive that go beyond finding things groovy, and methinks here will be the reason why ultimately, the spore drive won't end up getting used by Starfleet. I just hope it won't end lethally for Stamets. At a guess: he's experiencing time (past, present, future) simultanously when he zones out. Which is why he addressed Tilly as "Captain" directly after getting offline. (BTW, if I'm right, good to know Tilly not only fulfills her ambition but lives long enough to do so, which means she won't get killed off.) I appreciate that the script actually provides a sense-making reason why Stamets keeps this from his partner the Doctor, Hugh Culber, but then again, if Culber isn't a total loss at medicine he's already noticed altered behavior at the very least. Anyway, this gives the show the opportunity to try out new character combinations, which always good, in this case: Tilly and Stamets.

Speaking of new combinations: the Cornell and L'Rell subplot suffers from being all set up for the next part and no pay off the most, not to mention that if the big Ash Tyler theory is right, L'Rell is running two deceptions simultanously, and even if it isn't, she still runs one which we haven't seen the pay off for yet (i.e. come on, who seriously she didn't anticipate Kol acting as he did?), but all this nonewithstanding, letting Katrina Cornwell interact with L'Rell in her Klingon captivity was a good choice. Behold, actual dialogue instead of posturing (even if I think L'Rell was lying about wanting to defect - my current guess is that provided the Ash Tyler theory is right, she wanted Cornwell to bring her to Discovery where she'd trigger Tyler's buried memories and identity, and then she got derailed by discovering Kol is even more of a space waste than she thought and decided to finish him off first). And speaking of guesses, no, I don't think Cornwell is dead.

Meanwhile, on the planet of the crystals: Saru being seduced not by possession or anything the like but by being fear-free for the first time of his life (btw, do we know which bastards created the Kelpie to be afraid all their life? Sounds like something the Dominion would do, but it's way too early for the Founders tos how up) works for me and provides the opportunity for yet more heartfelt scenes between him and Michael. Also, the entire set up of the planet as a truly alien life form and both Michael and Saru trying to understand it was a good homage to Star Trek ideals. Not to mention that it does look like we're in a take on ye olde TOS episode featuring the Organians to me.

For non-TOS watchers: Kirk and Klingons arrive at a strategically important planet with inhabitants seemingly helpless. Lots of mutual posturing and wanting to fight it out. Turns out the Organians are anything but helpless and in fact superior life forms who force humans and Klingons to a peace treaty. Now I doubt the Crystals will do exactly that since it would be too repetitive, but as opposed to Discovery protecting them, they will probably turn out to be more powerful than either party.

Ash Tyler (or is he): if he's not, he's just shown for the first time after effects from his time as a tortured prisoner in the scene where he tells Saru he wants to hurt the Klingons for what they did to him. But I think the hints were flying thick and fast, between Saru's accusation that he's lying when Tyler is holding the crystal (and presumably not just about needing to buy time for Michael Burnham) and his odd lack of knowledge about First Contact protocol.

Other character stuff: Lorca trying his best to save the doomed vessel and his reaction when he can't. As with his behavior in the previous episode during the time loops, this shows his ethical side after his behavior with Cornell has highlighted his dark side. The show clearly wants him to so far stay ambigious.

Date: 6 Nov 2017 19:19 (UTC)
saturnofthemoon: (Georgiou)
From: [personal profile] saturnofthemoon
For a moment there, I thought L’rell planned to take over the Admiral’s identity, as Voq most likely did with the original Ash Tyler. Either way, it blew up in her face.

Also, it’s Katrina Cornwell.

Date: 7 Nov 2017 10:22 (UTC)
chelseagirl: (Default)
From: [personal profile] chelseagirl
Even my husband, who does not read online speculations, thinks Ash is Voq. It's kind of too obvious, though Star Trek is not known for its subtlety.

Good point about Stamets' partner. If he doesn't notice something is wrong, what does that say about him as a doctor and what does that say about their relationship? Also, yes, I love the notion that Tilly gets her Captaincy. She's so utterly charming and awkward and just yes.

Date: 10 Nov 2017 06:57 (UTC)
monanotlisa: Profile shot of Jodie Whittaker as the Thirteenth Doctor on Doctor Who (Default)
From: [personal profile] monanotlisa
"methinks here will be the reason why ultimately, the spore drive won't end up getting used by Starfleet"

Yes -- I mean, we knew that given TOS, but I like the way it plays out regardless. It's the journey, not the destination.

"ehold, actual dialogue instead of posturing (even if I think L'Rell was lying about wanting to defect - my current guess is that provided the Ash Tyler theory is right, she wanted Cornwell to bring her to Discovery where she'd trigger Tyler's buried memories and identity"

My assumption precisely. Well, things can't always work out, not even for superspies like L'Rell. Or at least they can't always work out precisely the way they're planned...like you, I am not sure Cornwell is dead. Did we see any classic markers of Gone Beyond All Hope? No.

"But I think the hints were flying thick and fast, between Saru's accusation that he's lying when Tyler is holding the crystal (and presumably not just about needing to buy time for Michael Burnham) and his odd lack of knowledge about First Contact protocol."

Huge flashing neon signs, I thought -- there's plenty of these peppered throughout the Ash Tyler scenes (charming though he is). Oddly enough, this whole wanting-to-kill confession made me like him more, not less; this is usually a reaction reserved for female characters wronged. The First Contact Protocol thing, though...even I know about it, and I'm not a Trekkie, merely someone who watched a few eps of each series and knows a lot of Trekkies and pop culture. Do we think the human memories are fading? I think we do.

Date: 16 Jan 2018 20:37 (UTC)
vilakins: (spock)
From: [personal profile] vilakins
Hmm, it seems others think Ash is a plant too. I had assumed he was a human trying to save loved one(s) in captivity, but people think he's Voq? OK, how can Klingons turn into humans; surely surgery wouldn't be enough? And wouldn't Culber have checked him and Lorca out when they got back? He also doesn't seem very Klingon in his reactions to people. I was hoping Saru would detect something though that crystal. Anyway: intriguing.

I'm not sure about L'Rell, or whether she left Cornwell alive. That headbutt is probably just a knockout, and she plans to come back when she's dealt with Kol. I'm certainly more interested in her. Some of those earlier Klingon scenes were so slow my attention would wander.

I need new icons.

Damn, I have to wait two nights to see the rest as Greg's away.

Date: 17 Jan 2018 05:15 (UTC)
vilakins: (data)
From: [personal profile] vilakins
So the original Tyler was on the Shenzou? Wouldn't that raise questions when Lorca checked his background out?

I can believe it in TOS where Klingons weren't very different, but these are very alien, almost reptilian. I saw Voyager and TOS years ago but only vaguely remember those storylines. Generally aliens weren't that different from humans, though I admit the Cardassians would be pretty difficult to disguise as human. I think the only way Tyler could be Voq is if he's had memory implants too - he seems far too human - but where would they get them if the original Tyler is dead? An amalgam of many memories extracted from prisoners? Or, like a character in a book series I've read and enjoyed, not realise for a long time that other people actually remember being a child.

Date: 17 Jan 2018 05:48 (UTC)
vilakins: Vila with stars superimposed (Default)
From: [personal profile] vilakins
OK, that all adds up. So I was right to be suspicious of him for being inserted into their cell, escaping so easily, "fighting like a Klingon" etc. I'm surprised Lorca hasn't been more thorough in his checking of Tyler's background. Of course I've yet to catch up with everyone else.

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