Avengers: Infinity War
Apr. 30th, 2018 08:03 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakBack from conferencing, straight into the cinema. Basically: it was what I expected, a big sprawling crossover event that felt like part I of a tw two parter and juggled its gigantic cast as best it could, much set up. I enjoyed some of the character interaction enormously (which is the main reason for such a big crossover anyway), was surprised the movie made me care about some characters I was previously unattached to, and rolled my eyes only a few times.
Mind you: there are also characters I was unattached to whom I still don't care for, who were only sort of there, with about two lines of dialogue. Read: Bucky Barnes. (I've given up believing this will ever change, though.) Also, there's the inherent premise of all genre excursions painting an apocalyptic future where everyone (or almost everyone) dies - we the audience know it won't stick because part of the reason for the story is to have your cake and eat it in this regard - the task for the main characters is to prevent/undo this scenario and the audience still has a canon AU to play with. Which, otoh, makes the creative challenge to make the audience care about any of the deaths anyway. There are genre entries which work for me in this regard (Days of Future Past managed, for example, as did The Wish back in the Buffy day), but it doesn't always. Also, while you have in this particular case the certainty that, say, T'Challa as the hero of his own branch of the Marvel franchise who only just got his very successful debut movie will end Avengers 4 not only alive again but well, this does not necessarily apply to all the Asgardians killed by implication in the opening scene of this movie, and the citizens of Wakanda in the big climax, so there better be a montage showing they did not truly die as canon fodder, is all I'm saying.
Otoh Loki can stay dead. You know, I got over my initial dislike of Loki around Thor 2 (when I was finally sold on the sibling relationship) and actually care now, but it feels to me the franchise has done all it could with him, and you can only pull off so many deaths and resurrections before it gets old. I'm glad his commitment to Thor from the previous movie stuck, and that this movie, despite all its crowdedness, atually did something Thor: Ragnarök in its determined jokeyness studiously avoided, to wit, allow Thor to on screen feel the enormity of all his losses - his friends, his entire family, his people; see, it can be done without slowing down the narrative pace. But I do hope Thanos' "this time, there won't be a resurrection" was something Marvel meant.
Speaking of Thor - during Phase 1 of the Marvel movies, he was probably the central character I was the least bit invested in. This has now completely turned around, and he's among my favourites. I also thought Chris Hemsworth, in addition to his usual reliable good comic timing, pulled off the serious stuff completely (the "what will you do then?" scene with Rocket especially), and the movie found a way to incorporate the mythological grandeur with the lighter side in a way not many of the other Marvel movies got the balance of. The whole reigniting the heart of a star to forge a Thanos-killing weapon bit could have felt camp, but they played it straight and it really worked for me, and I loved that Peter Dinklage was the last surviving dwarf and master smith. As for the interaction with the Guardians, this was priceless, and the Thor-Rocket team-up gave me fond memories of Farscape. "Sweet rabbit" indeed.
Like Thor: Ragnarök, Guardians of the Galaxy had entertained me but had been too determinedly jokey and non-stop gag reliant for me to love, and I never saw Guardians 2, so imagine my surprise when the space lot were among those characters I had no previous attachment to whom I cared in this movie for. Gamora especially, but also the others. Which was good, because the entire standing of Thanos as a character instead of a plot device (as in previous movies) of a villain depended on Gamora's relationship with him. Zoe Saldana was excellent throughout, from the breakdown when she thinks she's killed him to the horror at the sight of Nebula to "no, this is not love". And I thought both the script and Josh Brolin's voice managed the balance of making it believable Thanos thinks he truly loves Gamora while making his monstrosity clear to the audience equality clear, and not just because he's covered in latex.
As to previous favourites whom the movie pleased me by giving them much to do: well, whom am I kidding? Of course I was delighted by all the Tony scenes, whether it was the reunion with Bruce, snark with Strange and Peter Quill or the not-really-mentor/protegé interaction with Peter. (Tom Holland continues to be my favourite on screen version of Peter Parker, more praise in a minute.) Both writing and acting also sold me on the fact that this movie is what Tony has been afraid would come ever since the end of Avengers and the sight of the space ship, amplified by the vision Wanda gave him in Age of Ultron and driving a lot of his actions, which is one reason why I think he'll die (or at least the RDJ played version of him will) in the next part. I loved all the character beats, from pointing out the nanites to Bruce mid fight scene to the mixture of defeat and respect in his face when Peter says "I can't be a friendly neigbourhood spider-man if there's no neighourhood" to the devastation at the end. (Peter's was the one known-to-me-as-temporary death that really left me wibbling precisely due to how both actors played it.) I also appreciated fact that while both Tony Stark and Stephen Strange are verbose egotists, they always knew when to cancel their snarkathon in favour of universe saving attempts, and that Tony is never shy of using someone else's idea if it's better than his (true for both Peters at different points).
Might as well speculate here: given the movie established that a) Strange checked out millions of posssible futures and saw precisely one where the universe was saved, and that one by his expression a terrifying one, b) he had no reason to save Tony's life for Tony's sake, and certainly not in favour of the stone of time, and c) his last line before dissolving is "I'm sorry, Stark, it was the only way", it seems to me pretty obvious the movie is saying that Strange (by surrendering the gem) enabling a Thanos victory somehow was the only way to ensure a later Thanos defeat and that he did set up something to do with Tony. As the movie took the trouble to re-equip Tony with an arc reactor on his person at the start, my current guess is that Strange somehow ensured the gem of time (and/or some of the others) will end up on Tony post-current Thanos victory and that this is how most of the events of Infinity Wars will be reversed, but also that Tony won't survive using these gems (see also: movie establishing that no one before Thanos did), which is what Strange's apology is about.
Incidentally, Stephen Strange is another of those characters I didn't get attached to in his own movie whom I now have a degree of attachment to. And wouldn't object to his showing up for a few scenes in future Spider-Man movies, seeing as they have a relationship in the comics and Peter's "oh, we're using invented names" reaction to "I'm Dr. Strange" was priceless, and of course he thinks all the wizard stuff is nifty. Plus they'll be able to empathize on the nightmarish experience of death and resurrection now, and presumably Peter will need someone who can once he's back in Queens.
Holland as Peter Parker: continues to bring on the geekiness, bravery, kindness, skill for clever improvisation in fights, quippiness, is both hilarious and touching, and did I mention he's my favourite screen Spidey and that "Mr. Stark, I don't feel so well" was a gut punch? Oh, Peter.
Meanwhile, on Earth: the character in Team Cap I'm really invested in is Natasha, so of course I wish she'd been given more to do, but what she did was good, and with so many characters temporarily dead, I'm assuming she'll get plenty of screen time as one of the few survivors. Plus I do hope the movies manage to make me care about Steve again. I lost some sympathy in Civil War and his relatively limited screen presence here wasn't enough for fondness regaining. But hey, I couldn't stand Loki after Thor I and Avengers and Thor 2 changed this, plus, see above, re: Guardians, so more spotlight on Steve in the next movie is probably going to get me reinvested. Speaking of Civil War, I'm a bit annoyed that Rhodey, who was firmly pro-Accords quite independently from Tony's stand, here gets the scene with Ross being obnoxious to indicate he's completely changed his mind and then all around hugs from Team Cap. I'd have much preferred if he'd worked with Steve & Co. because needs must in the dire situation but still isn't happy with Steve. But I do acknowledge there was no way, given all that happened in this movie, that they could do a credible slow reconnecting post Civil War.
Wanda/Vision per se leaves me indifferent, and Vision as a character continues to have the problem that Age of Ultron established him as really powerful and with a genuine alien, or rather, non-human perspective, and then Civil War already had to reduce his powers in order for the block to work and personality wise left him basically as an awkward human, while Infinity War has him as a powerless damsel in distress for the entire movie. Well, better him than Wanda because of gender implications, and this was certainly Wanda's best movie outing so far. "Killing someone you love for the greater good" was a challenge to several characters in the movie and Elizabeth Olsen completely sold her big scene; this is a far cry from the Wanda in Age of Ultron who was going along with the deaths of thousands in order to get revenge.
Wakanda characters: Shuri had one scene to establish she's the superior genius (re: Bruce and by implication Tony), but given her brother is one of the dissolved-by-Thanos characters, I hope we'll see something of her as temporary leader in the next movie. Although I wouldn't blame the Wakandans for wanting to abolish the monarchy after this (or in general); certainly bringing superheroes to Wakanda has resulted only in in loss and devastation so far. (Again, I hope we do get a montage at the end of the next movie showing T'Challa is far from the only Wakandan being back from the dead.)
Speculation as to whose deaths from this movie will actually stick: Loki, though I wouldn't exclude the possibility of the MCU doing the kid Loki thing from the comics, i.e. Hiddlestone's Loki stays dead but in the tag scene we see a child looking like the one from the Thor I teaser somewhere, waking up; Heimdall, because Idris Elba is getting more expensive and because the movie established that Thor's newly forged hammer can open the world travelling bridge all on its lonesome; possibly Gamora, but honestly I don't think so, because this could be one of these loopholes useable to defeat Thanos, i.e. if she's resurrected, he loses the soul gem, for example. The rest of the bunch will be back, while, like I said, I'm pretty sure Tony will die, in the action of restoring the universe via the stones. And it will probably be death by dissolving while everyone else comes back, which will leave Marvel the option of resurrecting the character some years later played by a younger actor. (I know how a money making franchise works.) Given he's currently living his ultimate nightmare scenario (minus the part where he's actually in space and stranded with Nebula whom his inner engineer must be thrilled b) and it can't get bigger than saving the universe, it does feel like the note to go (temporarily) out on, finishing this part of the story just as his own movie started the MCU.
Lastly: I'd like to ask Dr. Strange why the timeline where they destroy the gem of time and the one from Vision right at the start did not result in universe saving.
Mind you: there are also characters I was unattached to whom I still don't care for, who were only sort of there, with about two lines of dialogue. Read: Bucky Barnes. (I've given up believing this will ever change, though.) Also, there's the inherent premise of all genre excursions painting an apocalyptic future where everyone (or almost everyone) dies - we the audience know it won't stick because part of the reason for the story is to have your cake and eat it in this regard - the task for the main characters is to prevent/undo this scenario and the audience still has a canon AU to play with. Which, otoh, makes the creative challenge to make the audience care about any of the deaths anyway. There are genre entries which work for me in this regard (Days of Future Past managed, for example, as did The Wish back in the Buffy day), but it doesn't always. Also, while you have in this particular case the certainty that, say, T'Challa as the hero of his own branch of the Marvel franchise who only just got his very successful debut movie will end Avengers 4 not only alive again but well, this does not necessarily apply to all the Asgardians killed by implication in the opening scene of this movie, and the citizens of Wakanda in the big climax, so there better be a montage showing they did not truly die as canon fodder, is all I'm saying.
Otoh Loki can stay dead. You know, I got over my initial dislike of Loki around Thor 2 (when I was finally sold on the sibling relationship) and actually care now, but it feels to me the franchise has done all it could with him, and you can only pull off so many deaths and resurrections before it gets old. I'm glad his commitment to Thor from the previous movie stuck, and that this movie, despite all its crowdedness, atually did something Thor: Ragnarök in its determined jokeyness studiously avoided, to wit, allow Thor to on screen feel the enormity of all his losses - his friends, his entire family, his people; see, it can be done without slowing down the narrative pace. But I do hope Thanos' "this time, there won't be a resurrection" was something Marvel meant.
Speaking of Thor - during Phase 1 of the Marvel movies, he was probably the central character I was the least bit invested in. This has now completely turned around, and he's among my favourites. I also thought Chris Hemsworth, in addition to his usual reliable good comic timing, pulled off the serious stuff completely (the "what will you do then?" scene with Rocket especially), and the movie found a way to incorporate the mythological grandeur with the lighter side in a way not many of the other Marvel movies got the balance of. The whole reigniting the heart of a star to forge a Thanos-killing weapon bit could have felt camp, but they played it straight and it really worked for me, and I loved that Peter Dinklage was the last surviving dwarf and master smith. As for the interaction with the Guardians, this was priceless, and the Thor-Rocket team-up gave me fond memories of Farscape. "Sweet rabbit" indeed.
Like Thor: Ragnarök, Guardians of the Galaxy had entertained me but had been too determinedly jokey and non-stop gag reliant for me to love, and I never saw Guardians 2, so imagine my surprise when the space lot were among those characters I had no previous attachment to whom I cared in this movie for. Gamora especially, but also the others. Which was good, because the entire standing of Thanos as a character instead of a plot device (as in previous movies) of a villain depended on Gamora's relationship with him. Zoe Saldana was excellent throughout, from the breakdown when she thinks she's killed him to the horror at the sight of Nebula to "no, this is not love". And I thought both the script and Josh Brolin's voice managed the balance of making it believable Thanos thinks he truly loves Gamora while making his monstrosity clear to the audience equality clear, and not just because he's covered in latex.
As to previous favourites whom the movie pleased me by giving them much to do: well, whom am I kidding? Of course I was delighted by all the Tony scenes, whether it was the reunion with Bruce, snark with Strange and Peter Quill or the not-really-mentor/protegé interaction with Peter. (Tom Holland continues to be my favourite on screen version of Peter Parker, more praise in a minute.) Both writing and acting also sold me on the fact that this movie is what Tony has been afraid would come ever since the end of Avengers and the sight of the space ship, amplified by the vision Wanda gave him in Age of Ultron and driving a lot of his actions, which is one reason why I think he'll die (or at least the RDJ played version of him will) in the next part. I loved all the character beats, from pointing out the nanites to Bruce mid fight scene to the mixture of defeat and respect in his face when Peter says "I can't be a friendly neigbourhood spider-man if there's no neighourhood" to the devastation at the end. (Peter's was the one known-to-me-as-temporary death that really left me wibbling precisely due to how both actors played it.) I also appreciated fact that while both Tony Stark and Stephen Strange are verbose egotists, they always knew when to cancel their snarkathon in favour of universe saving attempts, and that Tony is never shy of using someone else's idea if it's better than his (true for both Peters at different points).
Might as well speculate here: given the movie established that a) Strange checked out millions of posssible futures and saw precisely one where the universe was saved, and that one by his expression a terrifying one, b) he had no reason to save Tony's life for Tony's sake, and certainly not in favour of the stone of time, and c) his last line before dissolving is "I'm sorry, Stark, it was the only way", it seems to me pretty obvious the movie is saying that Strange (by surrendering the gem) enabling a Thanos victory somehow was the only way to ensure a later Thanos defeat and that he did set up something to do with Tony. As the movie took the trouble to re-equip Tony with an arc reactor on his person at the start, my current guess is that Strange somehow ensured the gem of time (and/or some of the others) will end up on Tony post-current Thanos victory and that this is how most of the events of Infinity Wars will be reversed, but also that Tony won't survive using these gems (see also: movie establishing that no one before Thanos did), which is what Strange's apology is about.
Incidentally, Stephen Strange is another of those characters I didn't get attached to in his own movie whom I now have a degree of attachment to. And wouldn't object to his showing up for a few scenes in future Spider-Man movies, seeing as they have a relationship in the comics and Peter's "oh, we're using invented names" reaction to "I'm Dr. Strange" was priceless, and of course he thinks all the wizard stuff is nifty. Plus they'll be able to empathize on the nightmarish experience of death and resurrection now, and presumably Peter will need someone who can once he's back in Queens.
Holland as Peter Parker: continues to bring on the geekiness, bravery, kindness, skill for clever improvisation in fights, quippiness, is both hilarious and touching, and did I mention he's my favourite screen Spidey and that "Mr. Stark, I don't feel so well" was a gut punch? Oh, Peter.
Meanwhile, on Earth: the character in Team Cap I'm really invested in is Natasha, so of course I wish she'd been given more to do, but what she did was good, and with so many characters temporarily dead, I'm assuming she'll get plenty of screen time as one of the few survivors. Plus I do hope the movies manage to make me care about Steve again. I lost some sympathy in Civil War and his relatively limited screen presence here wasn't enough for fondness regaining. But hey, I couldn't stand Loki after Thor I and Avengers and Thor 2 changed this, plus, see above, re: Guardians, so more spotlight on Steve in the next movie is probably going to get me reinvested. Speaking of Civil War, I'm a bit annoyed that Rhodey, who was firmly pro-Accords quite independently from Tony's stand, here gets the scene with Ross being obnoxious to indicate he's completely changed his mind and then all around hugs from Team Cap. I'd have much preferred if he'd worked with Steve & Co. because needs must in the dire situation but still isn't happy with Steve. But I do acknowledge there was no way, given all that happened in this movie, that they could do a credible slow reconnecting post Civil War.
Wanda/Vision per se leaves me indifferent, and Vision as a character continues to have the problem that Age of Ultron established him as really powerful and with a genuine alien, or rather, non-human perspective, and then Civil War already had to reduce his powers in order for the block to work and personality wise left him basically as an awkward human, while Infinity War has him as a powerless damsel in distress for the entire movie. Well, better him than Wanda because of gender implications, and this was certainly Wanda's best movie outing so far. "Killing someone you love for the greater good" was a challenge to several characters in the movie and Elizabeth Olsen completely sold her big scene; this is a far cry from the Wanda in Age of Ultron who was going along with the deaths of thousands in order to get revenge.
Wakanda characters: Shuri had one scene to establish she's the superior genius (re: Bruce and by implication Tony), but given her brother is one of the dissolved-by-Thanos characters, I hope we'll see something of her as temporary leader in the next movie. Although I wouldn't blame the Wakandans for wanting to abolish the monarchy after this (or in general); certainly bringing superheroes to Wakanda has resulted only in in loss and devastation so far. (Again, I hope we do get a montage at the end of the next movie showing T'Challa is far from the only Wakandan being back from the dead.)
Speculation as to whose deaths from this movie will actually stick: Loki, though I wouldn't exclude the possibility of the MCU doing the kid Loki thing from the comics, i.e. Hiddlestone's Loki stays dead but in the tag scene we see a child looking like the one from the Thor I teaser somewhere, waking up; Heimdall, because Idris Elba is getting more expensive and because the movie established that Thor's newly forged hammer can open the world travelling bridge all on its lonesome; possibly Gamora, but honestly I don't think so, because this could be one of these loopholes useable to defeat Thanos, i.e. if she's resurrected, he loses the soul gem, for example. The rest of the bunch will be back, while, like I said, I'm pretty sure Tony will die, in the action of restoring the universe via the stones. And it will probably be death by dissolving while everyone else comes back, which will leave Marvel the option of resurrecting the character some years later played by a younger actor. (I know how a money making franchise works.) Given he's currently living his ultimate nightmare scenario (minus the part where he's actually in space and stranded with Nebula whom his inner engineer must be thrilled b) and it can't get bigger than saving the universe, it does feel like the note to go (temporarily) out on, finishing this part of the story just as his own movie started the MCU.
Lastly: I'd like to ask Dr. Strange why the timeline where they destroy the gem of time and the one from Vision right at the start did not result in universe saving.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-30 09:23 am (UTC)Cap dies because Chris Evans wants out and anyway he's done his journey and nobody liked the Sharon Carter romance in the last movie.
Loki stays dead because enough is enough and Hiddleston is getting a lot of work now. Heimdall stays dead because Idris Elba gets to be the superhero now, or it's not worth his showing up.
Thor probably dies because who's left for him to interact with. And yeah, *adorable* with Rocket and Groot.
T'challa, Peter Parker, and the Guardians cast live because they are the next wave of Marvel movies.
Captain Marvel turns up and changes everything with her sheer awesomeness. Aka, oh, DC did one thing right with Wonder Woman. We need to get on that, says Marvel.
I found myself caring a lot about Vision and Wanda, but then, I'm teaching a class where a lot of students are writing about AI so I may be partial.
The Hulk is my least favorite Avenger, but Mark Ruffalo is my favorite of the actors. (Definitely the one who is the most my type.) So I was happy with a movie with a lot of Bruce and very little big green guy.
Peter Dinklage!! Perfect.
Who'm I kidding? My favorite Marvel heroine died back in the last Cap movie, and the remaining characters I care most about are in the Marvel Netflix Universe so I am definitely on the sidelines. Though with big hopes for Captain Marvel.
This got very long and I am posting it on my page as well . . .
no subject
Date: 2018-04-30 11:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-04-30 09:33 am (UTC)My guess: Thanos already having four stones at that point is sufficiently bad news for the universe at large that depriving him of two doesn't work. (And it's not like he's stop trying to find other ways to execute his plan, and potentially make Earth his next stop on his cull-everyone-the-slow-way universe tour.) Whatever happens in that one universe where they win must involve solving the Thanos problem permanently, and possibly ensuring that nobody else can ever use the stones either.
... and whatever it is, it has to be important that he ensured that the stones are all together (even if they're with Thanos for now) and Tony Stark is alive.
I'm still betting that Steve will be the one to die, since Chris Evans' contract is up and that would leave the way open for Sam to take over as Captain America. Or Bucky, I guess, but Sam would make far more sense in the MCU. However, it's entirely possible that they'll have Steve and Tony heroically sacrifice themselves together. They may even throw Bruce on the pile, although I hope not. (Hemsworth's contract is also running out, but I'm betting Thor will retire from superheroing to rule over whichever Asguardians are still alive.)
no subject
Date: 2018-04-30 11:33 am (UTC)and I actually like him, but isn't Sebastian Stan contracted for many more movies? Basically if there's no more Steve and the character does not become the next Captain America, there's no point to keeping Bucky around.A shared sacrifice of Tony and Steve would fit thematically, too, but yes, Bruce must live, and there's nothing in his storyline that would argue for death. Considering the Green Guy is currently on strike, after having been dominating for the last two years, I'm assuming the next movie will let him find the balance between his two halves.
Your guess sounds plausible to me!
no subject
Date: 2018-04-30 04:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-04-30 08:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-04-30 08:08 pm (UTC)Personally, I cannot decide whether I'd love Sam or Bucky more as the new Cap. They'd both make great new Captain Americas.
no subject
Date: 2018-05-01 01:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-05-01 01:45 am (UTC)I certainly have my fingers crossed the Bruce will survive. I still hope Marvel will sort out the rights issues with Universal and we'll get a solo film about the only Bruce Banner who's worked for me so far. (And more importantly, so they get She-Hulk back.)
no subject
Date: 2018-05-01 12:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-05-02 12:28 pm (UTC)I'm concerned that Marvel would want to go with a younger actress, though. They might be willing to finally start doing films with female leads, but casting women over forty in big roles in an action film is not exactly standard Hollywood practice. (I would love to be wrong, though. I am going to be so annoyed if we finally get Jennifer on screen and she's twenty years younger than the cousin she's meant to have grown up with.)
no subject
Date: 2018-04-30 09:43 am (UTC)Maybe it was just down to logistics? Like, presumably these stones aren't easy to destroy. We see that Wanda can do it (only before Thanos gets the time stone to reverse) but iirc Strange and Wanda are never together for her to destroy the time stone, and by the time that Strange has the visions Thanos has the space one so he will always be faster getting back to Earth. So maybe their group just lacks the power to destroy a stone in their current setup, and all scenarios Strange saw that involved getting his gem to Wanda failed?
I stumbled more over them not destroying Visions stone when they had a chance. It's all very well to go for a Wakandan technology longshot to avoid any sacrifices, but once the aliens arrived, the choice shifted to them valuing Vision's individual life more than that of some random Wakandan foot soldiers, because in a battle with technologically advanced aliens surely some will die, quite likely more than one. And Vision even volunteered for the removal.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-30 11:28 am (UTC)Re: good point about their (lack of) ability to destroy these stones without Wanda.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-30 04:14 pm (UTC)I loved that mythological dwarves are actually way *larger* than humans/Asgardians/etc.
I also loved that the location title for the Guardians’ first scene was simply “SPACE,” and that one of the background details for “SCOTLAND” was a notice in the kebab shop saying “We Can Deep-Fry Your Kebab.”
no subject
Date: 2018-05-01 12:42 pm (UTC)I loved that mythological dwarves are actually way *larger* than humans/Asgardians/etc.
Yes, that was such a nifty touch. Whoever thought of it: go you! One use of GCI I hadn't expected, and it totally works.
no subject
Date: 2018-05-01 04:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-04-30 10:30 pm (UTC)Same! He killed it in that scene.
I loved all the character beats, from pointing out the nanites to Bruce mid fight scene to the mixture of defeat and respect in his face when Peter says "I can't be a friendly neigbourhood spider-man if there's no neighourhood" to the devastation at the end. (Peter's was the one known-to-me-as-temporary death that really left me wibbling precisely due to how both actors played it.)
I loved all the moments that Tony was on screen, and Peter's death scene was the only one I found truly affecting. Tom Holland was utterly believable as a scared kid dying way too soon. "I don't want to go." *BURSTS INTO TEARS*
I'm a bit annoyed that Rhodey, who was firmly pro-Accords quite independently from Tony's stand, here gets the scene with Ross being obnoxious to indicate he's completely changed his mind and then all around hugs from Team Cap.
Yeah, this bugged the hell out of me, too.
no subject
Date: 2018-05-01 12:52 pm (UTC)"I don't want to go" - oh, Peter. If as I suspect Tony won't make it out alive of the next one, I do hope he'll die in the knowledge that Peter's alive and well again. And I hope Peter will have the chance to enjoy a bit being in space post resurrection and before tragedy strikes again, because does he ever deserve it.
re: Accords, writing Rhodey this way makes me suspect that post A4, they'll simply declare that since clearly only evil people (read: Ross) are for the Accords (what UN support? What 134 countries?), and the Avengers just saved the universe, they'll simply be abolished to great acclaim. Thereby getting rid what could have been a complex lasting issue. Sigh.
no subject
Date: 2018-05-01 09:35 pm (UTC)And an important issue, in an era when democracy is under threat and certain leaders believe that laws don't apply to them.
no subject
Date: 2018-05-01 10:23 am (UTC)Yeah, my expectations were pretty low, so I was positively surprised how well they did on that front. Many scenes made perfect sense for the places the characters were coming from and I really appreciated that. Case in point: Thor's understanding "family is complicated" reaction when he learnt who Gamora was.
I also appreciated that he made the scenes with the Guardians more interesting to me, because while I came from the same place as you, this movie didn't really get me invested in them on their own. (The main reason might be my dislike for Starlord.) I like what you said about Gamora - I'm ambivalent on her story in this movie (we really didn't need to linger on Thanos' tears when he killed her, sigh), which is probably why I'm ultimately not as invested as I could have been, but her lack of hesitance to kill him and only reacting to that afterwards was a good scene.
Tony is never shy of using someone else's idea if it's better than his
I really loved that! It's in character anyway, but he was under so much stress here, his worst nightmare about to come true etc, and he still managed to take in everything that was happening around him and to hear out other people's plans. And to explain his own - the scene with Strange where he explains his reasoning to go to Titan instead of fight on earth and then asks Strange if he agrees really stuck with me.
I lost some sympathy in Civil War and his relatively limited screen presence here wasn't enough for fondness regaining.
Heh, for me this movie worked well in that regard. His "earth's best defender" (Tony) and "home" (Avengers compound) remarks might have helped, but I also felt for him at the end, when the events kind of rolled over him faster than he could take in and there was no fighting to be done anymore because they'd already lost.
I'm a bit annoyed that Rhodey, who was firmly pro-Accords quite independently from Tony's stand, here gets the scene with Ross being obnoxious to indicate he's completely changed his mind and then all around hugs from Team Cap. I'd have much preferred if he'd worked with Steve & Co. because needs must in the dire situation but still isn't happy with Steve.
Yeah, that was a bit fast (which is why I'm glad that they didn't try to rush a Tony and Steve reconciliation in this busy movie), a sentence or two of hesitation from Rhodey when Steve showed up would have been appreciated. But I kind of fanwanked that not only is Tony missing and possibly presumed dead again, which means Rhodey is basically holding the fort alone (Vision is gone, too), but in a situation that dire Ross is still insisting on calling Steve and Co war criminals who are to be hunted instead of pursuing any kind of constructive solution. I don't think that would sit well with Rhodey regardless of his stance on the Accords, so when Steve shows up at personal risk to help, he's okay with that. (Mind you, my actual problem is that they made Ross the sole face and executor of the Accords after T'Chaka's death, but that's a left-over Civil War problem.)
I'd like to ask Dr. Strange why the timeline where they destroy the gem of time and the one from Vision right at the start did not result in universe saving.
The macguffin logic in this movie took some getting used to and I was quite surprised that it was even possible for them to destroy a stone in the first place. I thought they'd be too powerful for that.
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Date: 2018-05-01 01:13 pm (UTC)Yes, that was so perfectly fitting, and couldn't have come from another character, despite dysfunctional families being not a rarity, because of Thor's specific type of relationship to Loki (and changing relationship to Odin through the movies).
her lack of hesitance to kill him and only reacting to that afterwards was a good scene.
In a movie where "kill someone you love for the greater good" (or, in Thanos' case, what you perceive it to be), with Wanda, Peter Quill and even Thanos all taking their time to work up to it, Gammora was the only on who acted first, then had the emotional messy reaction. Alas that competence was not rewarded because Thanos already had the reaality stone, but still. Most impressive, to borrow a Vader quote.
It's in character anyway, but he was under so much stress here, his worst nightmare about to come true etc, and he still managed to take in everything that was happening around him and to hear out other people's plans.
Yes. For all that the movies (correctly) keep bringing up Tony's ego, it's not the type of ego that goes with "my way or nothing". To me, that's tied to his being an engineer and scientist, and being naturally curious. Even pre-Afghanistan Tony in his playboy & merchant of death era is intrigued by Maya Hansen's theories along with the usual one night stand and engages with what she tells and shows him as a goodbye note. Not that he's not prone to assume he knows best when he really doesn't (*cough* Ultron *cough*), but he has the type of mind that always takes in suggestions when they're voiced around him.
Rhodey/Accords: agreed to all you said.
I was quite surprised that it was even possible for them to destroy a stone in the first place. I thought they'd be too powerful for that.
Well, so far Wanda's powers seem to be the only thing that actually managed. (No idea how Tony was planning to do it when he suggested it to Strange, since he didn't have Wanda at his disposal.) And since they contain an element of reality alteration as I seem to recall, that sort of works for me.