Daredevil Season 3
Oct. 23rd, 2018 11:23 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakNot having watched Iron Fist yet, I have no feelings one way or the other about its cancellation. Luke Cage getting cancelled, otoh, had me torn; it was an intriguing series, but I felt for all reasons except its central character, whom I took to far more in shows not his own (i.e. Jessica Jones and Defenders). After all, it’s easy to read the two LC seasons as the Godfather-style tragedy of the Stokes clan (with Maria Dillard, Cottonmouth and Shades as the central characters), or, alternatively, as the hero origin story of Misty Knight – those were the narratives that gave the series most of its emotional power in my eyes. And those stories were more or less completed. („Less“ meaning in Misty’s case there are plenty of stories to tell about her, and yes, I so hope for „Daughters of the Dragon“, but the origin part of her tale is over.)
Meanwhile, Daredevil is as of the writing of this post not yet cancelled, but I wouldn’t be surprised if those news came as well, not least because its three main characters end the third season at a really good point, and obligatory tag scene about one of the supporting villains feels mostly perfunctiory. Whether or not that will be the case, I thought the third season, flaws and nitpicks not withstanding, played to the show’s strengths. (And spared us more ninja scenes.)
Nitpicks first: like Jessica Jones‘ second season, the show avoided referencing the existence of The Defenders except very briefly and obscurely. In reply to one character asking him why he doesn’t let „others like yourself“ help or take over the struggle against Fisk, given he’s in bad shape, Matt says, „it’s not their fight“, and at the very end of the season in the very last scene (minus the tag scene), he mentions Jessica by name. But that’s it. (This makes Luke Cage, both the character and the show, the only one (I’ve watched) who provides some logical follow up to the main character being aware he’s got some possible allies to call on in an emergency.) And it just makes no sense; the tv version of the MCU wanting to have its cake (shared universe) and eat it (main characters of each show and their support team are lone heroes in a world against them) strikes again.
Then there’s the weird way the show lets various characters, including Foggy, insist that „everyone in his life has bailed on Matt“ (excempting himself), which, what? Okay, Stick did when noticing he actually got emotionally attached to his child soldier, and, big plot point of the season which, however, Foggy isn’t aware of when he makes this statement, Matt’s mother Maggie did. But that’s it. Murdock Sr died, which isn’t „bailing“. Father Paul concealed Maggie’s identity, but was around and available to him throughout Matt’s life. Foggy and Karen put up with a lot of crap from Matt and were loyal above and beyond (as Matt himself acknowledges in this very season). Ditto Claire. The first Matt/Elektra breakup didn’t happen because she left him, it was because he drew the line at killing. The second time around, she died, which isn’t „bailing“, either. So who the hell are you talking about, Foggy?
And lastly, not a new but an old nitpick, now armed with new munition: look, show, if you want to make such a big deal out of killing as the red line for your main character, you should do a bit more than lampshade the way he puts people into the hospital with injuries that in any normal world would be lethal or at least result in way more comas. (Mind you, this season, the show is a bit better re: that, in that the various red shirts Matt fights don’t get thrown down stairs or out of windows, but still.) To say nothing of the fact that he did agree to kill the remaining members of the Hand and assorted minions by imploding a building over them in the Defenders finale, but again; this series refuses to deal with The Defenders having happened except for the part where it left Matt in bad shape and angry at God over his temporary loss of hearing and Elektra’s seeming second death at the start of the show.
Now, on to praise, because I really liked this season a lot, and it might even become my overall favourite DD season. Not least because it gave me Joanne Whalley, last seen as my favourite version of Vanozza in The Borgias, as Sister Maggie, and left her alive and well; I can’t tell you how much I was afraid Matt’s long lost mother would go the way of Jessica’s long lost mother, and when Poindexter eyed her angrily at one point, I held my breath, but no; Maggie makes it unharmed through the season, and even takes over the position of wise mentor-adviser left open by the death of Father Paul (and Stick, I suppose, for a qualified version of „wise“). I don’t know whether I would have guessed she was Matt’s mother from the get go; this was one of the few bits of comics canon I knew, but no more than „his mother: a nun!“, becauselikeadeuce had told me years ago when chatting about DD season 1. So inevitably I watched their scenes with this in mind long before the reveal. Maggie being the wrily sarcastic, no-nonsense sort who does feel great guilt over leaving but still thinks it was the right decision because she’s as convinced of her calling as Matt is of his was a good storytelling choice. Oh, and since I complained about this in my Exorcist reviews: at last, US tv gave me a nun wearing post-Vatican II clothing, not the pre-Vatican II habits. THANK YOU.
(OTOH, better not think about the logistics of Maggie's nun-dom. In the middle ages, you could turn your back on your marriage and take holy vows - both of Abaelard's parents did it, which explains something about Abaelard, if you ask me -, but as far as I know in the last few decades Maggie wouldn't just have been accepted back as a novice as a married woman. Her marriage would have been needed to be dissolved first. And how that would have been possible with an existing child and an unwilling to be divorced husband beats me.)
(Never mind that, I declare Father Paul had a hot line to the Vatican and managed it for her. Because I love Maggie, and want a lot of fanfiction starring her.)
Karen and Foggy had both good, strong storylines; we at last found out Karen’s backstory, which struck me as anchored in the present with its setting and economics in a way few comics stories are, due to hailing from decades past. I also appreciated the way she, Foggy and Matt each figured out a different bit of truth about Fisk’s plans; I really like it when main characters get to be smart, especially when they otherwise take insane risks and/or display attraction to dumb choices (no prices for guessing which of the three). Also, seeing as the early s2 dating of Karen and Matt felt very awkward and forced until it was ended by the Elektra storyline taking over, I was glad this season displayed no attempt at romance. Instead, the second half of the season gave us the three rebuilding their friendship amidst the various dangers, and by the time the finale let them (re)found „Nelson, Murdock & Page“ or „Page, Nelson & Murdock“, it felt earned.
Since I was down on the interseries (lack of) continuity, let me praise show continuity for letting Karen killing Wesley become a big plot point here. Her using it in her conversation with Fisk was a fantastic, powerfully acted scene (even if it fell under the „insane risk“ category mentioned above). On the Fisk side, too, I appreciated our main villain still being attached to his late henchman. (And btw, the scenes summed up as: „Dex: I’m the new Wesley! Vanessa & Fisk: No, you’re not!“ are probably the most fanfictiony of the season.) That’s what a Trusted Lieutenant of an Evil Overlord dreams of. And Wilson Fisk, as he was in season 1, really is a superb main villain, outsmarting and corrupting people left, right and center while remaining deeply in love. (And using this emotional truth as a cover story in his scheme du jour at the same time.)
Tragic character of the season: Agent Nadeem, who due to a mixture of economic pressure (the US healthcare system strikes again), ambitions and dire machinations on the part of our villain becomes entangled in the later’s web, but keeps trying to find a way out of it. Very movingly acted, too, and I’m glad the story allowed his final attempt at doing the right thing to succeed.
Since Fisk is already a foil/dark double of our hero, Dex being the same felt a bit de trope, not to mention that his final fall into psychopathy was literally triggered by a fridged woman (seriously, when Poindexter found out Julie had been stored in a fridge in the season finale, I had… a reaction probably not intended), but then again, what with Matt having an identity and purpose crisis and intending to leave Matt Murdock behind to be Daredevil only, having a dark doppelganger who just fights and has given up on any moral compass was thematically fitting.
Lastly: Marci’s plan to provide Foggy with some safety by letting him campaign for DA, thereby ensuring he was in the public eye all the time was my favourite of the various Cunning Plans made this season. (Even though it, too, was eventually counteracted by Fisk.) Marci was another character I was afraid would get killed, especially after mutual love admissions and Foggy proposing (that sure is a death sentence in the genre), but no, Marci probably ensured her survival by gently telling Foggy that if and when she accepts a proposal, it shouldn’t be one made in the heat of the moment.
Son of lastly: „more stable than Jessica Jones“ says the man who tried to commit suicide-by-muggers at the start of this season. Tsk, Matt. No drinks for you next time Jessica meets you.
In conclusion: liked it, would be a good point to wrap the show up, but of course I’m game to see these characters again.
Meanwhile, Daredevil is as of the writing of this post not yet cancelled, but I wouldn’t be surprised if those news came as well, not least because its three main characters end the third season at a really good point, and obligatory tag scene about one of the supporting villains feels mostly perfunctiory. Whether or not that will be the case, I thought the third season, flaws and nitpicks not withstanding, played to the show’s strengths. (And spared us more ninja scenes.)
Nitpicks first: like Jessica Jones‘ second season, the show avoided referencing the existence of The Defenders except very briefly and obscurely. In reply to one character asking him why he doesn’t let „others like yourself“ help or take over the struggle against Fisk, given he’s in bad shape, Matt says, „it’s not their fight“, and at the very end of the season in the very last scene (minus the tag scene), he mentions Jessica by name. But that’s it. (This makes Luke Cage, both the character and the show, the only one (I’ve watched) who provides some logical follow up to the main character being aware he’s got some possible allies to call on in an emergency.) And it just makes no sense; the tv version of the MCU wanting to have its cake (shared universe) and eat it (main characters of each show and their support team are lone heroes in a world against them) strikes again.
Then there’s the weird way the show lets various characters, including Foggy, insist that „everyone in his life has bailed on Matt“ (excempting himself), which, what? Okay, Stick did when noticing he actually got emotionally attached to his child soldier, and, big plot point of the season which, however, Foggy isn’t aware of when he makes this statement, Matt’s mother Maggie did. But that’s it. Murdock Sr died, which isn’t „bailing“. Father Paul concealed Maggie’s identity, but was around and available to him throughout Matt’s life. Foggy and Karen put up with a lot of crap from Matt and were loyal above and beyond (as Matt himself acknowledges in this very season). Ditto Claire. The first Matt/Elektra breakup didn’t happen because she left him, it was because he drew the line at killing. The second time around, she died, which isn’t „bailing“, either. So who the hell are you talking about, Foggy?
And lastly, not a new but an old nitpick, now armed with new munition: look, show, if you want to make such a big deal out of killing as the red line for your main character, you should do a bit more than lampshade the way he puts people into the hospital with injuries that in any normal world would be lethal or at least result in way more comas. (Mind you, this season, the show is a bit better re: that, in that the various red shirts Matt fights don’t get thrown down stairs or out of windows, but still.) To say nothing of the fact that he did agree to kill the remaining members of the Hand and assorted minions by imploding a building over them in the Defenders finale, but again; this series refuses to deal with The Defenders having happened except for the part where it left Matt in bad shape and angry at God over his temporary loss of hearing and Elektra’s seeming second death at the start of the show.
Now, on to praise, because I really liked this season a lot, and it might even become my overall favourite DD season. Not least because it gave me Joanne Whalley, last seen as my favourite version of Vanozza in The Borgias, as Sister Maggie, and left her alive and well; I can’t tell you how much I was afraid Matt’s long lost mother would go the way of Jessica’s long lost mother, and when Poindexter eyed her angrily at one point, I held my breath, but no; Maggie makes it unharmed through the season, and even takes over the position of wise mentor-adviser left open by the death of Father Paul (and Stick, I suppose, for a qualified version of „wise“). I don’t know whether I would have guessed she was Matt’s mother from the get go; this was one of the few bits of comics canon I knew, but no more than „his mother: a nun!“, because
likeadeuce had told me years ago when chatting about DD season 1. So inevitably I watched their scenes with this in mind long before the reveal. Maggie being the wrily sarcastic, no-nonsense sort who does feel great guilt over leaving but still thinks it was the right decision because she’s as convinced of her calling as Matt is of his was a good storytelling choice. Oh, and since I complained about this in my Exorcist reviews: at last, US tv gave me a nun wearing post-Vatican II clothing, not the pre-Vatican II habits. THANK YOU. (OTOH, better not think about the logistics of Maggie's nun-dom. In the middle ages, you could turn your back on your marriage and take holy vows - both of Abaelard's parents did it, which explains something about Abaelard, if you ask me -, but as far as I know in the last few decades Maggie wouldn't just have been accepted back as a novice as a married woman. Her marriage would have been needed to be dissolved first. And how that would have been possible with an existing child and an unwilling to be divorced husband beats me.)
(Never mind that, I declare Father Paul had a hot line to the Vatican and managed it for her. Because I love Maggie, and want a lot of fanfiction starring her.)
Karen and Foggy had both good, strong storylines; we at last found out Karen’s backstory, which struck me as anchored in the present with its setting and economics in a way few comics stories are, due to hailing from decades past. I also appreciated the way she, Foggy and Matt each figured out a different bit of truth about Fisk’s plans; I really like it when main characters get to be smart, especially when they otherwise take insane risks and/or display attraction to dumb choices (no prices for guessing which of the three). Also, seeing as the early s2 dating of Karen and Matt felt very awkward and forced until it was ended by the Elektra storyline taking over, I was glad this season displayed no attempt at romance. Instead, the second half of the season gave us the three rebuilding their friendship amidst the various dangers, and by the time the finale let them (re)found „Nelson, Murdock & Page“ or „Page, Nelson & Murdock“, it felt earned.
Since I was down on the interseries (lack of) continuity, let me praise show continuity for letting Karen killing Wesley become a big plot point here. Her using it in her conversation with Fisk was a fantastic, powerfully acted scene (even if it fell under the „insane risk“ category mentioned above). On the Fisk side, too, I appreciated our main villain still being attached to his late henchman. (And btw, the scenes summed up as: „Dex: I’m the new Wesley! Vanessa & Fisk: No, you’re not!“ are probably the most fanfictiony of the season.) That’s what a Trusted Lieutenant of an Evil Overlord dreams of. And Wilson Fisk, as he was in season 1, really is a superb main villain, outsmarting and corrupting people left, right and center while remaining deeply in love. (And using this emotional truth as a cover story in his scheme du jour at the same time.)
Tragic character of the season: Agent Nadeem, who due to a mixture of economic pressure (the US healthcare system strikes again), ambitions and dire machinations on the part of our villain becomes entangled in the later’s web, but keeps trying to find a way out of it. Very movingly acted, too, and I’m glad the story allowed his final attempt at doing the right thing to succeed.
Since Fisk is already a foil/dark double of our hero, Dex being the same felt a bit de trope, not to mention that his final fall into psychopathy was literally triggered by a fridged woman (seriously, when Poindexter found out Julie had been stored in a fridge in the season finale, I had… a reaction probably not intended), but then again, what with Matt having an identity and purpose crisis and intending to leave Matt Murdock behind to be Daredevil only, having a dark doppelganger who just fights and has given up on any moral compass was thematically fitting.
Lastly: Marci’s plan to provide Foggy with some safety by letting him campaign for DA, thereby ensuring he was in the public eye all the time was my favourite of the various Cunning Plans made this season. (Even though it, too, was eventually counteracted by Fisk.) Marci was another character I was afraid would get killed, especially after mutual love admissions and Foggy proposing (that sure is a death sentence in the genre), but no, Marci probably ensured her survival by gently telling Foggy that if and when she accepts a proposal, it shouldn’t be one made in the heat of the moment.
Son of lastly: „more stable than Jessica Jones“ says the man who tried to commit suicide-by-muggers at the start of this season. Tsk, Matt. No drinks for you next time Jessica meets you.
In conclusion: liked it, would be a good point to wrap the show up, but of course I’m game to see these characters again.
no subject
Date: 2018-10-23 12:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-23 12:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-23 01:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-23 01:09 pm (UTC)I thought Jay Ali and Wilson Bethel were fantastic, the pacing was amazing, Joanne Whalley was superb, and I loved getting fuller parts for Karen and Foggy. KAREN was amazing in this, like taking on Fisk and provoking him to attack her in front of FBI agents?? And I loved all the doubling (like Matt and his dad with Nadeem and Sami), and Karen and Maggie talking, and Nadeem's final message, it was great. Apparently they filled out Maggie's backstory a lot from the comics, AND KAREN DIDN'T DIE, like she does in the comics, which I was kinda terrified would happen. I was a little bummed at the lack of Elektra and Claire, especially if this is the last season maybe, but it was just really great.
I really like the idea of LC being Misty's origin story -- Simone Missick had such an important part in that show, and was so wonderful. JJ S2 was like the origin of Trish Walker as Hellcat, too, and this season of DD gave us Bullseye (thankfully not the grinning psycho of the comics). OTOH, yeah, with so many interlinked shows with so many superheroes, once again this is the "Where was Iron Man during Winter Soldier" or "Where were the Avengers during Iron Man 3" problem. But I'm willing to handwave that if it means we get some great characters along the way.
no subject
Date: 2018-10-23 05:47 pm (UTC)re: Karen, of course if Foggy hadn't interfered and Fisk had attacked her as planned, chances are the FBI team would have just let him proceed, given he was already controlling it at that point. Otoh, Karen didn't know that, and she'd ensured Fisk became focused on her and thus distracted, dividing his attention, plus it was seeing Dex go after her after already killing Father Paul which made Nadeem gather the courage to save someone again.
I hope we'll get a third season of Jessica Jones as well so she can reconcile with Malcolm and Trish; appearances by the other Defenders optional, but a bonus. And then, in fanfiction, I want someone write a plausible follow up to Luke doing an Angel in season 5, with everyone else showing up.
no subject
Date: 2018-10-23 07:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-23 09:25 pm (UTC)!!, NICE!
There was a picture of Krysten and Rachel getting ice cream the other day so maybe they're still at it
....now I need fic about the sisters getting ice cream
no subject
Date: 2018-10-23 09:22 pm (UTC)And then, in fanfiction, I want someone write a plausible follow up to Luke doing an Angel in season 5, with everyone else showing up.
YES omg maybe 20 min of Luke being tag-teamed by Jessica Misty and Claire ("WHAT are you DOING?") could possibly be enough, heh. A big part of the fun of the Defenders was how well they all fit together, plus Misty and Colleen and Claire getting to shine. It'd be a real shame not to get that again.
no subject
Date: 2018-10-23 08:54 pm (UTC)I think Matt believes he's always been abandoned - logically, no, dying is not abandoning, but we're not always logical in grief and Matt never got over losing his father. I don't think Foggy was wrong to make that claim on Matt's behalf, either, about always being abandoned, because Matt feels that way and behaves accordingly, even if it makes no sense.
I am totally with you re: Maggie. I would very much love to read any and all fanfiction about her. I can handwave the nun stuff if necessary - I mean, weirder and more unlikely scenarios have happened in comic 'verses.
So much to love in this season. Hands down the best of the Daredevil series and probably of the Marvel small-screen offerings.
no subject
Date: 2018-10-23 09:39 pm (UTC)I think Matt believes he's always been abandoned - logically, no, dying is not abandoning, but we're not always logical in grief and Matt never got over losing his father. I don't think Foggy was wrong to make that claim on Matt's behalf, either, about always being abandoned, because Matt feels that way and behaves accordingly, even if it makes no sense.
Yeah, I think if a parent dies, the kid feels abandoned, and Matt knew his father chose not to take the dive rather than live and be with him from the start. And all he knew about his mother was that she ran off. And even if his friends stick by him (AND THEY DO, MATT) there's the psychological phenomenon of someone angry and hurt pushing away people so the pattern of abandonment repeats again. I also think we're meant to see Matt as a teentsy bit self-pitying there (he did have Maggie and the priest, and he knows Jack loved him) -- WHO MATT?!? lol -- in contrast with Dex, who really didn't have anyone. (Partly because he tended to kill them. Whoops.) I thought the actor and writer did a great job of showing the essential emptiness and alienation at Dex's core, and how desperate he was to connect with someone, not just for moral guidance but to feel whole and wanted. He kept trying, in his own weird psycho ways, and Kingpin just kept blocking him (I loved when he proudly brought back the Symbol of Fisk and Vanessa's Love, and got blood on it -- like a dog bringing you a headless bird). tl;dr ITA Matt can feel abandoned and act and talk like he is without being actually alone, which does work to show his character -- the end of his arc is him agreeing to lean on Maggie, apologizing to Karen and Foggy, and delivering the (slightly on the nose) eulogy at the church for a man who was his second father, and who emphasized right before he was killed on how he was "one of you" -- a member of the congregation, a connected human. ζῷον πoλιτικόν.
no subject
Date: 2018-10-24 02:11 am (UTC)