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selenak: (Thirteen by Fueschgast)
[personal profile] selenak
Which I thought was an excellent choice to broadcast on the WWI centennary, despite ostensibly having nothing to do with WWI. But the way the title - "Demons of Punjab" - turned out to refer to exactly the same thing President Macron in Paris referred to in his speech when he said "the demons of the past have returned" made the same connection between history and present. Obviously it's a matter of opinion, but I also thougt it pulled off the microcosm storytelling choice. When you tackle somewhat that was historically an incredibly bloody series of events with repercussions to this day, and was caused by a variety of factors, not the least of which were decisions made by the outgoing British rules , it's hard to do that within an entire series, let alone one single episode. And it's too easy for the audience to disconnect emotionally when the numbers of dead people pile up without them having faces. So to instead of attempting an overview go for how one particular family is impacted during just two days struck me as a clever solution.The result was very moving and still managed to say something not just about the historical situation then but our situation now (and does it ever need saying). That, and it was another episode where all the guest stars were distinct and (nearly) everyone was likeable.



Now given that the episode's aliens don't actually change anything, plot wise, you'd think they'd come across as a random nod to this being a Sci Fi show, but not to me they didn't. It's not just the obvious thematic relevance of the aliens at first suspected of being Up To No Good really were no such thing while the true demons were human hatred, radicalisation, nationalism, tribalism. (The last DW season did this turnaround of seemingly evil aliens actually being good several times.) No, it's that the Doctor had reason to suspect them as they were assasssins. That while they were out there assassinating their way through the galaxy their planet destroyed itself. That they changed, by themselves, through the horror of both what had happened. In an episode where we see the reverse process - hatred being brought to the surface, people turning into killers - this is something important to say; that killers can change, can learn. That the memory of the dead, instead of being used as justification for yet more murder, can be used quite differently instead. (And btw, I think that just might be something new brought by our bloody 20th century, and WWI, for the first time. That instead of "Yay us!" or "Revennnnnnngge!" being the emotions evoked through commemorating the dead it turned to "let's not do that again, ever.")

The two previous DW eps sharing some of this episode's approaches are Father's Day (companion insists on travelling back in time to encounter family member, learns something new and unexpected about family history) and Vincent (aliens in a historical story used as metaphor). But Yaz didn't try to change history; it wasn't that kind of tale. (This said, I appreciated that the Doctor made it very clear to Yaz that she could erase herself from existence if she changed her grandmother's life.) And yet it didn't feel grimdark or hopeless or pointless that she was there and got to meet young Umbreen, and Prem who'd made it through WWII with the courage to love and not give into divisions, and Manesh who very much summed up people getting radicalized by hate (important, here, as in the Rosa episode that this does not happen through an alien plot device but steady human propaganda and political decisions). Because stories need to be experienced in order to be remembered, and memory, as well as actions based on it, is what we can give to the dead.

Also liked, both in terms of minor and major stuff:

- Umbreen having had a good life in Sheffield with her second husband (as you know, faithful reader, "only loved that one time, all else is trivial and unimportant" is my anti-kink) while clearly the memory of Prem and having lost her home were still important to her; my kind of balance

- the Doctor sometimes still a bit unsure about her gender (as as when the wedding party separates), because it's relatively new after all those centuries

- Graham's expression when he sends Prem to what he knows will be Prem's death, which is very Gandalf after Frodo volunteers for the trip to Mordor in the film version (and according to Ian McKellen, Peter Jackson gave him the direction "your son just volunteered for WWI" as how to play that scene)

- Prem trying to get through to his brother till the end, even if it didn't work (see above, though, for thematic relevance of the aliens being ex-assassins)

- the Doctor's reaction when she realises what that device actually contains and that the aliens are telling the truth (it's a good show, not tell because anyone familiar with the last ten years of the show knows how the whole "last of species" thing resonates with her)

- good thing the wedding participants aren't familiar with Einstein's personal history, though, because given how Einstein's first marriage turned out, it's not exactly inspiring re: the Doctor as matchmaker

- the gorgeous scenery and its use throughout.

Date: 2018-11-12 10:11 am (UTC)
jesuswasbatman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jesuswasbatman
The problem over here is that, probably through being on the winning side of both World Wars, the deaths of the surviving veterans means that there are worrying signs of Remembrance Day being taken over by jingoism, militarism, and "lefties are spitting on Our Boys!" culture-war posturing from the right-wing media. After doing so for many years, I actually didn't wear a poppy in public this year because I was so disgusted by, for example, an Irish footballer playing in England who refuses to wear the poppy for Troubles-related political reasons getting bombarded with death threats against himself and death and rape threats against his wife and small daughter. And some of the most aggressive public poppy-wearers being supporters of everything World War II was fought against.

Date: 2018-11-12 03:36 pm (UTC)
jesuswasbatman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jesuswasbatman
I don't know, I hope not.

Date: 2018-11-12 03:51 pm (UTC)
vaznetti: (Default)
From: [personal profile] vaznetti
I assumed that it was very much self-consciously a Remembrance Day episode, and meant to be read as such -- the whole theme of witnessing the forgotten dead seemed like a callback ot the Unknown Soldier (which is something that usually get a lot of play here around Remembrance Day). I really loved it.

Date: 2018-11-12 08:36 pm (UTC)
elisi: janto 4ever (Turchwad)
From: [personal profile] elisi
From what I have heard, the writer pitched the idea as it was a story he'd wanted to tell for a long time, so I don't think the caveat was necessary. :)

Also - lovely review, liked it very much!

And speaking of Torchwood and WW1, did you ever read "Far Off, Like A Dull Rumour Of Some Other War"? Quite possibly the best Torwchwood fic of all time, following the team of 1918.

Date: 2018-11-12 04:07 pm (UTC)
astrogirl: (Tardis clock)
From: [personal profile] astrogirl
That's a really good and insightful analysis of the thematic role the aliens played in this, in ways that didn't even remotely occur to me.

Umbreen having had a good life in Sheffield with her second husband (as you know, faithful reader, "only loved that one time, all else is trivial and unimportant" is my anti-kink)

I neglected to mention this in my own post, but I 100% agree on this one. It's refreshing.

Graham's expression when he sends Prem to what he knows will be Prem's death,

Graham does the absolute best, most touching, complicatedly sad expressions. I love him.

Date: 2018-11-12 04:40 pm (UTC)
astrogirl: (Tardis clock)
From: [personal profile] astrogirl
Yes, I like that theme, too. Which is why I might almost have forgiven them for killing off Grace. :)

Date: 2018-11-13 02:47 am (UTC)
grimorie: (Default)
From: [personal profile] grimorie
No, it's that the Doctor had reason to suspect them as they were assasssins. That while they were out there assassinating their way through the galaxy their planet destroyed itself. That they changed, by themselves, through the horror of both what had happened. In an episode where we see the reverse process - hatred being brought to the surface, people turning into killers - this is something important to say; that killers can change, can learn. That the memory of the dead, instead of being used as justification for yet more murder, can be used quite differently instead.

I also thought this but you write it so much more eloquently! I do like that they showed that there can be a change even from people who were so used to murder, to turn around and change. It made sense that they were angry at the Doctor for desecrating what was essentially to them a place of remembrance and worship. I liked that when the Doctor understood the importance, she mimicked their hand clasp in solidarity.

The moment reminded me of the moment in 'Hungry Earth' when the Silurian claimed they were the last of their species and Eleven quickly admonished them by saying 'Don't insult me, I am the last of my species, I know how that sits in the heart.'

I liked that Thirteen immediately recognized their sincerity because of the Doctor's own experience.

More than Father's Day though, I feel like this episode reminds me a bit of Age of Steel, where the Companions ignored the Doctor's wishes by interacting with their relatives but not destroying their own timeline, if that makes sense?

Date: 2018-11-13 10:57 pm (UTC)
dhampyresa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dhampyresa
That the memory of the dead, instead of being used as justification for yet more murder, can be used quite differently instead.

That was beautiful.

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