Star Trek: Discovery 2.08
Mar. 8th, 2019 11:58 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakIn which it's reunion time all around.
Starting with the minor: you know, "justice for Vina" wasn't the first thing I thought when I realised the show would take us back to Talos IV, but good on you, Disco, for providing Vina - within the fixed parameters of previous canon - with a bit of agency. If I recall The Cage correctly, in this one the Talosians were the ones to tell Pike Vina couldn't/didn't want to live with her badly repaired body self and that she prefered the illusions, and either Pike or the Talosians (but not Vina) then decided to give her an illusion!Pike to live with. Here, Vina gets to speak for herself, and while Discovery didn't change her basic decision, the show lets her converse with real Pike and be aware that what she's living with is an illusion, not to mention that Vina here isn't used as a toy/means to test someone as she was in The Cage but as a liason of the Talosians to communicate better with Michael, Spock and then Pike.
The Talosians are generally more into consensual hospitality, though they still have their inner voyeur to justify the audience finally finding out what happened between Michael and Spock in ye olde Vulcan days. Incidentally, go figure that in the Mirrorverse, the Emperor had them wiped out as soon as she realised what they can do. As I welcome any reminder that MirrorGeorgioiu isn't just a ruthless action heroine but counts genocide among her hobbies, I'm glad they worked that into the dialogue.
On board Discovery, Hugh Culber is doing as badly with the ressurected life as Buffy Summers ever was in season 6 of BTVS, with additional trauma of having to life on the same ship as his killer. I was wondering how the show would justify Pike not simply asking for a transfer and another liason officer from Section 31, because he strikes me as considerate enough, but with the ship being on the run now, that option is out. Otoh logic would suggest to dump Tyler somewhere anyway, but they won't because a) he's a regular and b) the audience knows he is actually innocent of brainwashed sabotage this time. (Sudden thought: what if Tyler with his own identity issues becomes the Spike to Culber's Buffy? That would piss off several sets of shippers at once.)
This is the first episode to present Spock in a coherent state in the present, with the beard still easing the transition. So far, I think I buy him as a younger version of the TOS character. As for child!Michael inadvertendly causing him to seal off his humanity and try to be more Vulcan than Vulcan for years when she rejected him in order to stop him from running away with her and/or be bombed by extremists, okay, I buy it as well. Their sibling dynamic in the present is already more interesting than the thing with Sybok in ST V., and I'm not trying to damn with faint praise. I like that Michael doesn't let her guilt allow him to browbeat her with stealth insults. Pointing out flaws in someone's logic is what you do when you were raised on Vulcan the way she was. :) Also, Spock's respect and affection for Pike in the final scene are very much in tune with him risking all for the man in the future.
Though I'm glad we're no longer questing for Spock but to save the galaxy, because of course the galaxy is at stake. New speculation about the Red Angel: I'll have to rewatch to be sure, but I think Spock referred to the Angel as "she", not "he". Since he mindmelded - or attempted to - with the Angel, he ought to know. He's also sure the Angel is human, and time-trravelling via technology alone, not mind power. Since this reveal was intercut with Michael attempting to speak to Spock, my money is now on the Angel being Michael, flung several far into the future by a later plot device and attempting to get back (and save the galaxy) via whatever technology she picked up. So far, all the Angel's appearances are events Michael i the present either is involved in or learns about (like the colonists), which would explain why the Angel picks those events - it's a causality loop.
If I were Leland I'd assassinate Georgiou sooner rather than later; it couldn't be more obvious that she'll take over very very soon now that the people they're reporting to prefer to talk to her rather than him. Mind you,
Lastly, as to who the galaxy-destroying ships are: please not the Borg. They've been overdone. And thankfully there appear no cubes droning on, pun intended, involved. Still, they seem to have some tech basis. I'll have to rewatch the minisode Calypso set several centuries in the future again, there might be a clue?
Starting with the minor: you know, "justice for Vina" wasn't the first thing I thought when I realised the show would take us back to Talos IV, but good on you, Disco, for providing Vina - within the fixed parameters of previous canon - with a bit of agency. If I recall The Cage correctly, in this one the Talosians were the ones to tell Pike Vina couldn't/didn't want to live with her badly repaired body self and that she prefered the illusions, and either Pike or the Talosians (but not Vina) then decided to give her an illusion!Pike to live with. Here, Vina gets to speak for herself, and while Discovery didn't change her basic decision, the show lets her converse with real Pike and be aware that what she's living with is an illusion, not to mention that Vina here isn't used as a toy/means to test someone as she was in The Cage but as a liason of the Talosians to communicate better with Michael, Spock and then Pike.
The Talosians are generally more into consensual hospitality, though they still have their inner voyeur to justify the audience finally finding out what happened between Michael and Spock in ye olde Vulcan days. Incidentally, go figure that in the Mirrorverse, the Emperor had them wiped out as soon as she realised what they can do. As I welcome any reminder that MirrorGeorgioiu isn't just a ruthless action heroine but counts genocide among her hobbies, I'm glad they worked that into the dialogue.
On board Discovery, Hugh Culber is doing as badly with the ressurected life as Buffy Summers ever was in season 6 of BTVS, with additional trauma of having to life on the same ship as his killer. I was wondering how the show would justify Pike not simply asking for a transfer and another liason officer from Section 31, because he strikes me as considerate enough, but with the ship being on the run now, that option is out. Otoh logic would suggest to dump Tyler somewhere anyway, but they won't because a) he's a regular and b) the audience knows he is actually innocent of brainwashed sabotage this time. (Sudden thought: what if Tyler with his own identity issues becomes the Spike to Culber's Buffy? That would piss off several sets of shippers at once.)
This is the first episode to present Spock in a coherent state in the present, with the beard still easing the transition. So far, I think I buy him as a younger version of the TOS character. As for child!Michael inadvertendly causing him to seal off his humanity and try to be more Vulcan than Vulcan for years when she rejected him in order to stop him from running away with her and/or be bombed by extremists, okay, I buy it as well. Their sibling dynamic in the present is already more interesting than the thing with Sybok in ST V., and I'm not trying to damn with faint praise. I like that Michael doesn't let her guilt allow him to browbeat her with stealth insults. Pointing out flaws in someone's logic is what you do when you were raised on Vulcan the way she was. :) Also, Spock's respect and affection for Pike in the final scene are very much in tune with him risking all for the man in the future.
Though I'm glad we're no longer questing for Spock but to save the galaxy, because of course the galaxy is at stake. New speculation about the Red Angel: I'll have to rewatch to be sure, but I think Spock referred to the Angel as "she", not "he". Since he mindmelded - or attempted to - with the Angel, he ought to know. He's also sure the Angel is human, and time-trravelling via technology alone, not mind power. Since this reveal was intercut with Michael attempting to speak to Spock, my money is now on the Angel being Michael, flung several far into the future by a later plot device and attempting to get back (and save the galaxy) via whatever technology she picked up. So far, all the Angel's appearances are events Michael i the present either is involved in or learns about (like the colonists), which would explain why the Angel picks those events - it's a causality loop.
If I were Leland I'd assassinate Georgiou sooner rather than later; it couldn't be more obvious that she'll take over very very soon now that the people they're reporting to prefer to talk to her rather than him. Mind you,
Lastly, as to who the galaxy-destroying ships are: please not the Borg. They've been overdone. And thankfully there appear no cubes droning on, pun intended, involved. Still, they seem to have some tech basis. I'll have to rewatch the minisode Calypso set several centuries in the future again, there might be a clue?
no subject
Date: 2019-03-08 12:59 pm (UTC)Sudden thought: what if Tyler with his own identity issues becomes the Spike to Culber's Buffy? That would piss off several sets of shippers at once.
I had the same thought watching this episode. Frankly, I would love to see that - because even though I ship both Paul/Hugh and Michael/Tyler, Hugh/Tyler is exactly the kind of hot mess that would push all my shipping buttons!
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Date: 2019-03-08 04:27 pm (UTC)I mean, I'm all for Paul/Hugh as endgame, but Hugh is obviously in a really bad mental and emotional place right now.
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Date: 2019-03-16 12:41 am (UTC)I'm not particularly expecting sex (outside fanfic) but I thought it was a strong indication that Tyler, rather than Saru, is the person who can help Culber come to terms with himself. When Culber says "Bring him out" it's really himself he wants to bring out, isn't it? Like Tyler he can remember what his old self felt without feeling it.
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Date: 2019-03-08 06:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-03-09 09:49 am (UTC)Well, the Emperor is certainly under the impression that's what happened, anyway. :P
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Date: 2019-03-09 10:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-03-09 04:57 pm (UTC)Before that scene, I wasn't quite buying this Spock as the same person as TOS!Spock, but afterwards it kind of worked for me. I liked that they switched between child and adult forms during the scene, I think it showed the psychological impact quite well. Spock choosing to embrace his Vulcan side afterwards makes sense indeed, but I'm wondering why on earth he still chose Starfleet then? To spite Sarek? Because that's not very Vulcan of him. As always when he insists on being completely unemotional, he usually isn't.
Also, I'm glad that Michael got to comment on the beard, being a bit fed up with his attitude. :-D
Re: Culber - where's a ship counselor when you need one? Because that right there? Should be a prime case for psychotherapy. Same goes for Stamets actually, who isn't equipped to deal with this either.
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Date: 2019-03-09 05:19 pm (UTC)Spock choosing to embrace his Vulcan side afterwards makes sense indeed, but I'm wondering why on earth he still chose Starfleet then? To spite Sarek? Because that's not very Vulcan of him. As always when he insists on being completely unemotional, he usually isn't.
Well, quite. Also, I think that choice wasn't just about Sarek but to show up the Vulcan Academy, if it went anything like the Reboot version (i.e. he rejected them only after they patronizingly offered him a place "despite" his mother), and because he was sincerely interested in Starfleet in terms of what it offered. (My headcanon is that he imprinted on T'Pol's stories as a child; it's not that much of a stretch that Sarek must have known and socialized with T'Pol. (They have T'Pau in common, and you can't tell me Sarek became a Federation ambassador and married a human woman all without ever having talked to the first Vulcan to have served on a human vessel, even if she wasn't technically a member of Starfleet. And of course T'Pol went through the experience of having a human/Vulcan child (who died).)
Also not impossible as a motive: some subconscious sibling rivalry with Michael. Who already served on the Shenzou when Spock made his choice. And yet he managed to get on the Federation flagg ship; the s1 episode where Michael and Tilly are jogging and talking about Tilly's desire to be Captain, and Michael describes the ideal career path, she specifically lists serving on a Constitution class starship like the Enterprise as one of the best things an ambitious Starfleet officer can have in their CV. So while Spock of course would never put it like this, I wouldn't be surprised if the following showed up in his subconscious: "Father had to throw his weight around to secure Michael a job on the Shenzou, but I am getting the Enterprise entirely on my own merit and in fact against his wishes, so there."
The switching between the child and adult forms was an inspired directing choice for that scene, and all four actors were superb in it!
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Date: 2019-03-10 12:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-03-19 12:47 am (UTC)