January Meme: (Some) Favourite Tropes
Jan. 4th, 2020 10:29 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakIt all depends, of course, on the execution. I.e. none of these tropes might work for me if they're used in a way that at least to me feels wrong/clumsy/badly done, which can be a real turn-off to the overall story, and conversely, I might overlook a great deal of flaws in the overall narrative if the tropes I favour are done in a way that really works for me
With this caveat, and some illustrations, here are a few favourites:
1.) Enemies to friends (and/or lovers). Obviously, with me being a Londo/G'Kar fan. But this needs to be done right. To wit: the reasons for the original hostility have to be real ones, not just comic misunderstandings (that's another trope, and I'm okay with that one as well, but it's not what I'm aiming at here). Also, while it's possible that one party is more in the wrong than the other one (definitely the case here; while G'Kar has his own shadiness and ill deeds in s1, the Centauri are the ones occupying and enslaving other people), I prefer it if neither of them is entirely wrong or right all the time. And once they have become friends - or lovers, or both - it shouldn't magically solve all problems between them, or entirely change who they used to be.
2) Loyalty combined with retaining your own perspective. Not sure there's a shorthand phrase for this; what I mean isn't "my country/cause/person to be loyal to, right or wrong". Another B5 example comes to mind, to wit: Vir. Who loves Londo, and definitely cares a great deal for his people, the Centauri. He still entirely disagrees with Centauri politics for the majority of the show, and with most of Londo's decisions from the s1 finale to the start of s4. Vir's solution to this isn't to call it quits with Londo or to just stand by; he argues with Londo and post-refused apology to G'Kar starts the whole Narn rescue operation, but he also is there for Londo when Londo needs him either emotionally or for a good cause (i.e. anti Cartagia conspiracy).
(As an example for the trope I don't> mean - what we call "Nibelungentreue" in German, named after everyone rather dying - and have all their entourage die who don't have a choice - than hand over Hagen in the last third of the Nibelulngenlied. Sure, everyone's a jerk in the Nibelungenlied, but the reason why Kriemhild wants Hagen handed over is a valid one - he did murder her husband.) (Mind you, in the Nibelungenlied, this is a feature, not a bug. No one is the good guy there, intentionally so.)
To use another, more recent example: Philip and Elizabeth in The Americans are intensely loyal to each other through most of the show, but in the last season, there comes a point where Philip's take on what's best for Russia and Elizabeth's differ so much that he acts on it. He doesn't turn his back on her, but he acts on his own convictions. That's also the kind of loyalty I'm talking about.
3) Unlikely Friends. Can be because they're from very different backgrounds, or because they have very different tempers/ideas/life goals, and yet, there is something that not just draws them together but keeps them together. Not to be confused with enemies turning friends; it's a trope of its own. Various Doctor and Companion combinations. Seven of Nine and Naomi Wildman. Boswell and Dr. Johnson in real life.
4.) Complicated family relationships. These can be dysfunctional or just somewhat on the stressed side, but it's one of the easier tropes to get wrong (for me, as always, mileage will vary), because if it's so toxic and dysfunctional that I can't see what the family members get out of it that's positive, not even, say, intellectual sparring on each other's level, or the occasional moment of understanding that's not possible with anyone else, then it's not a favored trope, it's a major turn-off. (Case in point: Bill and Lee Adama post s2 of BSG.) But if done well, I'm really into it.
5.) Temporary alliance against a common foe. Can go with one of the other tropes or stand on its own as a one time thing. But it's often very enjoyable, especially if the writers manage to neither forget why these people usually fight each other, not someone else, nor neglet to let them discover things about each other that they otherwise wouldn't have, so it also comes with character development. (American Gothic's episode where everyone gets taken hostage in the hospital is a good case in point.) (And of course Delgado!Master specialized in this, i.e. he usually showed up in tandem with some other villain he thought he could control, other villain gets out of hand, Master and Doctor had to team up but backstabbing once the immediate threat was past was always given.
6.) Villains in love. With each other, that is, not with the hero(ine). (Not that I'm against the later, if well done, but it's a different trope.) My golden standard here are still Lucretia and Batiatus from Spartacus. Neither of them gets anywhere near redemption through their love for each other, and it doesn't change the fact they're both awful people in a myriad of ways, but it's real, compelling and oddly endearing nonetheless.
7.) Worthy Opponents. Can come with "we used to be friends" a la Magneto and Xavier or between people who never were friends (nor will they ever become friends) but nonetheless learn to respect each other's abilities (see this year's Yuletide story about Maria Theresia and Friedrich II). Both parties need to be competent at what they do for this to work for me, of course, and not self deluded about their own skills.
The other days
With this caveat, and some illustrations, here are a few favourites:
1.) Enemies to friends (and/or lovers). Obviously, with me being a Londo/G'Kar fan. But this needs to be done right. To wit: the reasons for the original hostility have to be real ones, not just comic misunderstandings (that's another trope, and I'm okay with that one as well, but it's not what I'm aiming at here). Also, while it's possible that one party is more in the wrong than the other one (definitely the case here; while G'Kar has his own shadiness and ill deeds in s1, the Centauri are the ones occupying and enslaving other people), I prefer it if neither of them is entirely wrong or right all the time. And once they have become friends - or lovers, or both - it shouldn't magically solve all problems between them, or entirely change who they used to be.
2) Loyalty combined with retaining your own perspective. Not sure there's a shorthand phrase for this; what I mean isn't "my country/cause/person to be loyal to, right or wrong". Another B5 example comes to mind, to wit: Vir. Who loves Londo, and definitely cares a great deal for his people, the Centauri. He still entirely disagrees with Centauri politics for the majority of the show, and with most of Londo's decisions from the s1 finale to the start of s4. Vir's solution to this isn't to call it quits with Londo or to just stand by; he argues with Londo and post-refused apology to G'Kar starts the whole Narn rescue operation, but he also is there for Londo when Londo needs him either emotionally or for a good cause (i.e. anti Cartagia conspiracy).
(As an example for the trope I don't> mean - what we call "Nibelungentreue" in German, named after everyone rather dying - and have all their entourage die who don't have a choice - than hand over Hagen in the last third of the Nibelulngenlied. Sure, everyone's a jerk in the Nibelungenlied, but the reason why Kriemhild wants Hagen handed over is a valid one - he did murder her husband.) (Mind you, in the Nibelungenlied, this is a feature, not a bug. No one is the good guy there, intentionally so.)
To use another, more recent example: Philip and Elizabeth in The Americans are intensely loyal to each other through most of the show, but in the last season, there comes a point where Philip's take on what's best for Russia and Elizabeth's differ so much that he acts on it. He doesn't turn his back on her, but he acts on his own convictions. That's also the kind of loyalty I'm talking about.
3) Unlikely Friends. Can be because they're from very different backgrounds, or because they have very different tempers/ideas/life goals, and yet, there is something that not just draws them together but keeps them together. Not to be confused with enemies turning friends; it's a trope of its own. Various Doctor and Companion combinations. Seven of Nine and Naomi Wildman. Boswell and Dr. Johnson in real life.
4.) Complicated family relationships. These can be dysfunctional or just somewhat on the stressed side, but it's one of the easier tropes to get wrong (for me, as always, mileage will vary), because if it's so toxic and dysfunctional that I can't see what the family members get out of it that's positive, not even, say, intellectual sparring on each other's level, or the occasional moment of understanding that's not possible with anyone else, then it's not a favored trope, it's a major turn-off. (Case in point: Bill and Lee Adama post s2 of BSG.) But if done well, I'm really into it.
5.) Temporary alliance against a common foe. Can go with one of the other tropes or stand on its own as a one time thing. But it's often very enjoyable, especially if the writers manage to neither forget why these people usually fight each other, not someone else, nor neglet to let them discover things about each other that they otherwise wouldn't have, so it also comes with character development. (American Gothic's episode where everyone gets taken hostage in the hospital is a good case in point.) (And of course Delgado!Master specialized in this, i.e. he usually showed up in tandem with some other villain he thought he could control, other villain gets out of hand, Master and Doctor had to team up but backstabbing once the immediate threat was past was always given.
6.) Villains in love. With each other, that is, not with the hero(ine). (Not that I'm against the later, if well done, but it's a different trope.) My golden standard here are still Lucretia and Batiatus from Spartacus. Neither of them gets anywhere near redemption through their love for each other, and it doesn't change the fact they're both awful people in a myriad of ways, but it's real, compelling and oddly endearing nonetheless.
7.) Worthy Opponents. Can come with "we used to be friends" a la Magneto and Xavier or between people who never were friends (nor will they ever become friends) but nonetheless learn to respect each other's abilities (see this year's Yuletide story about Maria Theresia and Friedrich II). Both parties need to be competent at what they do for this to work for me, of course, and not self deluded about their own skills.
The other days
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Date: 2020-01-04 03:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-01-04 04:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-01-04 03:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-01-04 04:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-01-04 09:41 pm (UTC)I don't know a shorthand either but I wish there was one; I love that so much.
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Date: 2020-01-06 10:07 pm (UTC)Loyalty combined with retaining your own perpsective
Loyalty is just my biggest trope in general, and I am here for the "loyal right or wrong" trope as well (hi there Verdi!Rodrigo!) but I especially love this flavor of it when the character has to figure out what to do when faced with a choice between loyalty and some other greater good. (I like the trope no matter what gets chosen, but it's definitely a special thing when the greater good is chosen.)
Unlikely Friends
Like Lehndorff and Heinrich? :D (No, I realize that's actually not an example of your trope -- at least it's not for me -- because they were more like "extreme crush and mild friend" and Lehndorff eventually gave up on it. But I had to say it!)
Complicated family relationships
HAHAHAHA. How could I have guessed this! And you will be completely unsurprised to hear that I am HERE FOR THIS :D (and also that we are totally going to nominate Heinrich next year.) Actually, that's one of the really interesting things about the Hohenzollerns to me -- it's always pretty clear that they get something important out of their family relationships, even if that something is unhealthy, and even though they are also, to us, batshit crazy. They're actually more interesting than the slightly more functional Hapsburgs to me that way, as with the Hapsburgs it seems more like, if I'm parsing your writeups correctly, they were trapped in dysfunction after Franz Stephan's death rather than staying in it at least partially because they got twisted emotional satisfaction from it. (Okay, I suppose e.g. Amalie didn't have much of a choice. But Heinrich could have... at least not started talking to Fritz again, lol.)
Temporary alliance against a common foe
I adore the DS9 plot where Kira has to work with Garak and Damar :D
Worthy Opponents
Let me say again how much I looooooove my Yuletide story <33333333 (And, yes, absolutely a trope for me, as I'm sure is obvious :D )
no subject
Date: 2020-01-07 10:30 am (UTC)Oh, same. I mean, best of all is when the character manages to find a way to be true to both the personal loyalty and the greater good. And I can feel for characters who choose the personal, as well as for characters who choose the principle/cause/greater good. I do, however, prefer my characters aware that there is a choice to be made and that there's more at stake than their person's welfare.
Lehndorff and Heinrich: are a crossover that combines various aspects of other tropes. :) When they meet, they at first glance have a lot in common - Lehndorff is a younger son in a family where the focus was on his older brother, whom he knew his mother prefered (in his post Hotham "I'll never get out of here" depression, there's one heartbreaking sentence where he writes "I've always said my birth was superflous") until that brother's death in battle, he liked literature, music and art, and whatever is true about Fritz' active sex life, neither Heinrich nor Lehndorff were into celibacy. And Lehndorff does have ambitions to make something out of himself. But of course if you scratch the surface, Heinrich with his Fritz shaped chip on the shoulder, Hohenzollern capacity to bear a grudge (when Lehndorff is angry with someone, read: Heinrich, it's just a matter of time before he changes his mind; Heinrich being angry with people can result in variations from post mortem obelisks to cutting them out of his life entirely (poor Mina, and some of his exes), and ruthless streak that allows him to negotiate the first partitioning of Poland without being bothered what the Poles make out of this (Heinrich in general showed a commendable care for civilians through all the wars he participated in, as well as the lives of his own men, but note he never hesitated to join the war effort to begin with) is quite a different man. (And that's leaving aside that anyone who fights in several wars very succesfully, and not just in a "stay in his tent" way but in a way that includes physical fighting, is a highly trained killer.) (I don't see Lehndorff as capable of taking a life, but then, due to his handicap he escaped being trained as a soldier from boyhood onwards, which is what happened to most of Prussian male nobility after FW had changed the country this way, especially to FW's sons.)
Actually, that's one of the really interesting things about the Hohenzollerns to me -- it's always pretty clear that they get something important out of their family relationships, even if that something is unhealthy, and even though they are also, to us, batshit crazy.
Yes, absolutely. To empoy a war metaphor, it's a bit because they had been in the (family) war together under fire from FW vs SD days onwards, and nobody else gets quite in the same way what that makes of you. Or is able to provide you with that same kind of emotional & intellectual challenge. If you do get around of watching Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, it's not totally dissimilar to the George and Martha situation there.
Kira-Garak-Damar is by far my favourite storyline in the last DS9 season!