Six Degrees....

[selenak]

On a lighter note: in ye olde 1990s, there used to be this party game, which became a stage play: "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon". Meaning you could connect anyone in the world to Kevin Bacon in six steps, maximum.

Well, after one year of 18th century source reading with my comrades in armys mildred_of_midgard and cahn, I have concluded that the Age of Enlightenment equivalent clearly is "Six Degrees of Francesco Algarotti". Meaning not only that you can connect anyone to Francesco Algarotti in six steps, maximum, but some of these steps probably include people who have had sex with Algarotti, or tried to habe sex with Algarotti, or wrote about other people having sex with Algarotti.

If you don't know who Francesco Algarotti was, never mind. A year ago, neither did I. But believe me: six steps. Maximum. Try me. (Or the above mentioned ladies.)

Comments

[ratcreature]

Okay, I'm game. How about Leonard Euler, the famous mathematician? (TBH I have no idea about his personal life, I just know he was really prolific...)

[mildred_of_midgard]

Euler knew Algarotti personally, as they were both members of Frederick the Great's court at the same time. Given how devout Euler apparently was, they probably didn't have sex, but given how full of surprises our fandom's canon is turning out to be, I'm open to counterevidence!

ETA: Since they were both in St. Petersburg at the same time before either met Frederick, where Euler was mathematics chair at the Academy of Science and where Algarotti was looking for a job, they may well have met each other on that occasion, but since Algarotti only stayed a couple of months, I can't confirm that.

ETA2: If you want to play the sexy variant of this game, Euler was at the court of Frederick, who wrote a poem to Algarotti called "The Orgasm" ("La Jouissance"), describing an orgasm Algarotti had. So either Frederick and Algarotti had sex with each other (a much-debated topic), or they at the very least had a demonstrably very sexually charged relationship filled with lots of flirting.

So 1 degree for the vanilla variant, 2 degrees for the sexy variant. :D

[selenak]

In addition to what Mildred said about the primary connection(s), here‘s another: Euler also knew (and argued with) Voltaire during Voltaire‘s time in Prussia; Voltaire was yet another person writing a poem about Algarotti having sex (in a private letter to Friedrich). Voltaire himself probably did not have sex with Algarotti, but Algarotti stayed with him and Émilie du Chatelet several times.

[ratcreature]

I had no idea 18th century people were writing this many sex poems.

I guess it's what you're left with if sending dick pics isn't an option yet.

[mildred_of_midgard]

There's a reason we're playing this game with Algarotti!

Frederick wrote and distributed among friends a poem about Algarotti having het sex (we debate whether that was a cover for Fritz/Algarotti distinctly not-het sex); Voltaire wrote a poem about Algarotti fastened to the bum of the secretary of the French ambassador, in a private letter because distinctly not het.

This is fun. Want to try again? :)

[ratcreature]

So what's the connection between him and the prototypical celebrity sex symbol, Lord Byron? I guess Byron was a bit later but with six degrees there has to be still a link?

[mildred_of_midgard]

Ooh, I bet selenak, who knows one million times more about Byron than I do, will be all over this. The best I can come up with is 3 degrees, with tenuous links:

Byron -> Goethe -> Prince Henry of Prussia -> Algarotti

Googling tells me Goethe corresponded just enough with Byron that I'm going to count it unless selenak knows otherwise. That's useful, because it brings us 4 decades back. (Byron was born 24 years after Algarotti died.)

Goethe never met Frederick (fanboyed him from afar and visited his palace while he was away, walked through his bedroom and listened to his dogs bark), but he did meet Frederick's brother Henry. (Or at least, so I gather from a selenak write-up. If not, then we have to add one extra link for Goethe's BFF and Heinrich's great-nephew Carl August.)

I assume Henry must have known Algarotti, during the several years Algarotti spent as Frederick's chamberlain. selenak, in one of her wonderful fics, adopted my speculation that Henry (canonically gay) and Algarotti (canonically bi, maybe with a preference for men?), with their strong sex drives, had sex with each other. After recently discovering just how *much* Algarotti got around, we decided that was even more plausible than we'd originally thought!

At any rate, if Henry and Algarotti somehow managed to avoid meeting each other directly during all those years, which would surprise me, you can easily get a fourth link from all their mutual acquaintances, of whom Frederick is only the most obvious.

selenak, you are hereby challenged to come up with fewer and/or stronger links!

[selenak]

Goethe did correspond with Byron but never met him in person, alas. However, I could come up with a stronger link, see below!

[mildred_of_midgard]

Yeah, that's what the internet was telling me and why I figured you could come up with a better connection, which you did. Well done!

[selenak]

Not just a bit later, as Mildred points out vis a vis Byron's birth and Algarotti's death date; commonly the Age of Enlightenment ends when the French Revolution starts anyway. However, I can do a different connection than Mildred, because:

Byron knew Lady Louisa Stuart, author and friend of mutual friend and author Sir Walter Scott. Lady Louisa Stuart was the granddaughter of Lady Mary Wortley Montagu, famous traveller and author (and Louisa knew Lady Mary in her last year of life, when her grandmother had come home to England to die). Lady Mary was hopelessly and passionately in love with Algarotti, though alas for her, he did not return her feelings. (Though he kept her dangling for a while and was charmed and interested by her personality enough to revive the relationship as a friendship years and years later in the last years of their lives.).

So: Byron - Lady Louisa - Lady Mary - Algarotti.

Given all the time Byron spent in Venice, and the fact that Algarotti was a Venetian, chances are he (Byron) met some older Venetians who'd known Algarotti directly, too, and he could even have seen the monument erected to him there at Frederick's expense, but I don't have my edition of Byron's letters at hand to check can't look it up. Whereas the otherh connection is reliable. :)

ETA: Also: for all his well attested sexism, Byron was actually a fan of Lady Mary as a writer and praised her poetry and famous "Embassy Letters", i.e. her travel descriptions from her time in Turkey (where her husband had been the English ambassador). Which Byron, due to his own travels decades later, was in a position to judge, as opposed to most English readers, and he thought they were not just superbly written but dead-on in what they describe.

[mildred_of_midgard]

I knew this would be educational!

Given all the time Byron spent in Venice, and the fact that Algarotti was a Venetian, chances are he (Byron) met some older Venetians who'd known Algarotti directly, too

Yeah, I tried to find someone they had in common in Italy, but without knowing much about Byron, I failed.

he could even have seen the monument erected to him there

Though the monument is in Pisa--two buildings away from the leaning tower, according to my last foray onto Google maps (the comment where I shared all the pics of the monument a week or two ago). If I can't travel to Europe in current circumstances, I'll travel virtually!

Algarotti moved to Pisa in the last year or two of his life, for the weather, before dying of consumption.

Did Byron make it to Pisa?

Which Byron, due to his own travels decades later, was in a position to judge, as opposed to most English readers, and he thought they were not just superbly written but dead-on in what they describe.

Oh, nice!

[selenak]

Byron definitely was in Pisa, yes. Even better: I've now found a paper someone wrote specifically about Lady Mary as an influence on Byron. Abstract:


Byron’s admiration for Lady Mary Wortley Montagu was exceptional in a period when her reputation was still suffering from Alexander Pope’s and Horace Walpole’s virulent misogyny. Byron was fascinated by her and claimed to have read her Turkish Embassy Letters (1763) by the age of 10. His letters reveal an erotic attraction towards this scholarly woman. When he was residing in Venice, he discovered the passionate letters that Montagu had sent to her young Venetian lover over 60 years earlier. These letters reveal a series of performative sexual identities constructed in relation to a lover. This article argues that Byron can be productively read through his alliances with earlier, sexually transgressive literary figures. More specifically, Montagu’s works, as well as her queer ethnomasquerades, were influential in his writing of Don Juan (1819), and also in his creation of a Byronic celebrity persona. For both writers, philhellenist and Orientalist discourses enable possibilities of self-imagining and celebrity spectacle. Montagu’s depictions of passionate travelling and heroic sexuality reveal continuities across the borders of canonized literary periods

The entire work is here. Haven't read it yet, am planning to, but Byron reading Lady Mary's love letters to Algarotti has to count as one and a half steps, surely!

[mildred_of_midgard]

Oh, neat!

Byron reading Lady Mary's love letters to Algarotti has to count as one and a half steps, surely!

I agree! Though by this definition, you and I are pretty close to Algarotti too. ;) How many steps is writing me Algarotti/Peter Keith?

Speaking of which, mobster AU author is planning a Fritz/Algarotti/Katte/Keith foursome, in that AU where Katte turns out to have been alive the whole time and they reunite in their fifties.

Iow, in which everyone's Algarotti number becomes 1. :D

[selenak]

You and I aren't able to meet Lady Mary's granddaughter, though, nor am I likely to write something on the scale of Don Juan (which really is one of the greatest verse epics ever, and hilarious to boot). :)

(I will write you Algarotti/Peter Keith, though, in an exchange you sign up for.)

Most importantly, though: seems we have Byron to thank for the fact these letters are available for us to read:

When George Gordon, Lord Byron (1788-1824) occupied the Palazzo Mocenigo in Venice, it was widely believed to have been the residence of Lady Mary Wortley Montagu (1689-1762) over sixty years earlier. It was when he was residing here that Byron began work on Don Juan, and it was also from here that he discovered the extraordinary letters that Montagu sent a young Venetian scholar, Francesco Algarotti. These letters explain Montagu’s exile, and provide a passionate complement to the dry letters detailing her health and expenses which she was simultaneously sending her husband, and which were published in 1803. Her family had been rigorous in their censorship and consequently her published works, as well as her 1803 biography, made no mention of this affair. Fascinated, Byron thought her correspondence “very pretty and passionate” and their “sentiments beautiful”. He sent six letters, together with other correspondence, to his publisher, John Murray. The correspondence included some letters by Montagu’s friend, Lord Hervey, a rival for Algarotti’s attentions. Montagu and Hervey shared an erotic infatuation for the Venetian philosopher whose “tastes were predominantly if not entirely homosexual”. Despite some unkindness over this rivalry, Hervey and Montagu were close friends throughout their lives. They even collaborated over verse; their voices circling the feminine scholar’s absence. Byron suggested that “a small and pretty popular volume” might be made of their letters, and he promised to “hunt” for more. However, there is no more mention of the letters, and the volume was never published.

Having browsed through the entire paper, Byron really developed a big literary crush on Lady Mary. Quote:

In his ‘Letter to John Murray Esq’ during the Bowles/Pope Controversy in 1821, (Byron) exclaims: “I admire her so much, – her beauty, –
her talents […] She was an extraordinary woman – she could translate Epictetus, and yet write a song worthy of Aristippus.” He enthusiastically cites lines from her poem ‘The Lover’:

And when the long hours of the Public are past
And we meet with Champaigne and a Chicken at last,
May every fond pleasure that moment endear!
Be banished afar both discretion and fear!
Forgetting or scorning the airs of the Crowd
He may cease to be formal, and I to be proud
Till lost in the Joy, we confess that we live,
And he may be rude, and yet I may forgive.

The depiction of a private intimacy threatened by honour, reputation and scandal, as well as coquettes and “the long hours of Public”, must have appealed to him. Moreover, the sensual pleasures of food are linked to a hedonistic friendship where “the Freind, and the Lover be handsomely mix’d” (line 34). Byron exclaims:

"what say you to such a Supper with such a woman? And her own description too? – Is not her ‘Champaigne and Chicken’ worth a forest or two? – Is it not poetry? It appears to me that this Stanza contains the ‘purée’ of the whole Philosophy of Epicurus."

And, something I recalled before reading this paper, there's an homage to Lady Mary in Don Juan: When Don Juan arrives in Turkey he enjoys “the very view/ Which charmed the charming Mary Montagu” (5, 3); the same view that presumably charmed Byron when he followed in her footsteps.

So: Lady Mary might have loved Algarotti in vain, but: the bisexual male sexpot of the Romantic Age fell for her (and not Algarotti) through her writings, big time.

[mildred_of_midgard]

Most importantly, though: seems we have Byron to thank for the fact these letters are available for us to read:

Ooh, that is so awesome! Thank you, Byron!

So: Lady Mary might have loved Algarotti in vain, but: the bisexual male sexpot of the Romantic Age fell for her (and not Algarotti) through her writings, big time.

Can't argue with his tastes!

I will write you Algarotti/Peter Keith, though, in an exchange you sign up for.

WELL OKAY THEN. I can see I'm going to have to sign up for an exchange sooner or later. :D

[mildred_of_midgard]

This is fun and we should play! It'll be totally educational. :D

Also, Kevin Bacon was exactly what was on my mind when I joked about everyone in the Enlightenment being 2 degrees apart max, mostly thanks to Algarotti. :P Well spotted! (I don't watch movies, as you know, but in the 90s, my best friend was a cinephile, so she told me about this game.)

"Six Degrees of Francesco Alvarotti"

You have a typo here.

[selenak]

Typo edited, and yet another Euler to Algarotti connection pointed out!

[mildred_of_midgard]

There are so many possibilities!

[dhampyresa]

:D

Can you do Olympe de Gouges?

[mildred_of_midgard]

With the help of Wikipedia, I can do 4 degrees. selenak, who knows the French side of things better than I do, can probably do better.

Olympe de Gouges -> Madame de Montesson -> d'Alembert -> Voltaire -> Algarotti

Gouges used to attend Montesson's salons. D'Alembert wanted to admit women to the Académie française in order to snag Montesson. D'Alembert was a friend of Voltaire, and a friendly correspondent of Frederick the Great, both of whom wrote sex poems about Algarotti (see ratcreature's thread).

And that's if d'Alembert didn't meet Algarotti directly, which I can't find any mentions of, but considering the sheer amount of time Algarotti spent in Paris hanging out at salons trying to network and get a job, they may well have met. No data on sex or sex poems. ;)

[dhampyresa]

Nice! thank you.

[selenak]

Here's an alternate connection: Olympe de Gouges during those early years when frequenting salons knew writer Jean-François de La Harpe. La Harpe had been a guest of Voltaire's at Ferney for some considerable time. And Voltaire not only knew Algarotti (who'd been staying with him and Émilie du Chatelet in Cirey years earlier) but had written a poem about Algarotti having sex (in a letter to Frederick the Great).

So: Olympe de Gouges - La Harpe - Voltaire - Algarotti!

[dhampyresa]

Four degrees as well and yours even has sex poems!

[lilacsigil]

Joseph Banks!

[selenak]

Joseph Banks: natural science advisor to King George III., son of uncrowned Prince Frederick of Wales, who for three years was the very intimate friend of Lord Hervey, who definitely had sex and a full blown affair plus love triangle with Algarotti!

So: Banks - George - Fred - Hervey - Algarotti.

[lilacsigil]

Only 5 degrees, nice!

[mildred_of_midgard]

I can do it in 3 degrees!

Banks -> Boswell -> Voltaire -> Algarotti

Wikipedia tells me that Banks, when returning from Captain Cook's voyage around the world, was interviewed by Boswell (he of Boswell's Life of Johnson). Boswell met Voltaire, who as you'll see in the comments before you, had Algarotti stay with him and wrote a sexually explicit poem about Algarotti and the secretary of the French envoy.

By the way, I googled it, and the internet confirms my understanding of how you count degrees: Algarotti is 0 degrees from himself, Voltaire 1, Boswell 2, and Banks 3. So selenak was able to do it in 4 degrees.

We have a similar game in math, with Paul Erdős. He was a very prolific 20th century mathematician who co-authored a lot of papers, so if you co-authored a paper with him, your Erdős number is 1. If you've co-authored a paper with someone who co-authored a paper with him, your number is 2, and so on. Erdős's own number is 0.

"We." I'm not actually a mathematician and have never published a mathematical paper, but I did major in math, so I'm granting myself honorary membership. ;)

[cahn]

Alexander Hamilton? (I can do it with my highly specific current knowledge base, but presumably the two of you can do it with fewer degrees :) )

[cahn]

Ah! I wrote this before reading mildred's related post, where I see Lafayette can be connected directly to Fritz. (I didn't know that, but I knew he knew Marie Antoinette, so :P )

[selenak]

Yes, the closest connection would be Hamilton - Lafayette - Fritz - Algarotti. Courtesy of Lafayette, you can connect most of the Founding Fathers to Algarotti, though there are additional possibilities via Steuben (knew Heinrich and Fritz), and John Quincy Adams (was US Envoy's Francis Dana's private secretary at the court of Catherine in St. Petersburg in 1781, thus met Catherine and a whole bunch of people who had either met Algarotti or the Prussian Royals or both, and also he was American Consul in Berlin in 1797. And then of course Jefferson while US envoy in Paris met everyone who was there at the time, including Melchior Grimm who'd known Algarotti. But really, Lafayette is easiest.

[mildred_of_midgard]

The Lafayette "Hot or not" description of Fritz. I find it one of the most memorable.