It's a truth universally acknowledged....

[selenak]

More silliness brought to you by having read far too much about the 18th century in the last two years. Now actually, marrying anyone in that century is something I'd do everything to avoid, and so should you, but if you had to....

Poll #25733 18th Century Royal Marriage Options

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 24

View Respondents

My 18th century royal spouse would be...

View Answers

George II (England): comes with mistress and monologues, but adores me and makes me regent
2 (8.7%)

Peter the Great (Russia): I could become ruling Czarina after his death! (if he doesn't put me into a nunnery)
0 (0.0%)

Philip V (Spain): sure, he's always depressed and at times thinks he's a frog - but he gives me all the power!
2 (8.7%)

Friedrich I (Prussia): adores me, lets me set the rules of our time together and finances nice palaces for me
12 (52.2%)

Franz I. Stephan (HRE): will have mistresses, but supports my being the boss of everyone without fail and is great at cheering me up
7 (30.4%)

Whereas the 18th Century Royal I would NEVER marry is...

View Answers

George I (England): would murder my lover and lock me up for the rest of my life
4 (17.4%)

Friedrich Wilhelm I (Prussia): sexual fidelity does not make up for constant marital warfare and child abuse
9 (39.1%)

Louis XV (France): while I'm constantly pregnant, he has sex with every female who moves
3 (13.0%)

Friedrich II (Prussia): he's gay, and will take his Dad issues out on me
2 (8.7%)

Christian VII (Denmark): increasingly insane, but I'm the one ending up a prisoner (with an executed lover)
5 (21.7%)

You missed out my 18th Century dream/nightmare man, who is:

View Answers

Comments

[mildred_of_midgard]

LOLOL great poll!

FS all the way for me of that set. I'm asexual, so he's going to need those mistresses! (I'm stopping after the first son, and that's if I can't get away with the Fritzian approach to sleeping with your spouse.) And do I want to be in charge? Heck yes. G2 requires too much ego-stroking and time investment to convince him my ideas are his ideas. I don't have that kind of people skills or patience.

F1 and I would clash over money-spending and ceremonial. You'd have to physically drag me to those endless ceremonies. (I gather Sophia Charlotte wasn't a fan either.)

Philip V (Spain): sure, he's always depressed and at times thinks he's a frog - but he gives me all the power!

So...I'm going to have to heavily qualify that last bit in the "second half of the bio" write-up, when I feel up to writing it. Turns out that there may have been a lot of the "Unpopular decision? Blame the woman!" effect at work that Horowski brings up like 5 times in his book.

I'm also going to backtrack on Isabella winning the marriage lottery, alas. Philip goes on my "no no no" list.

Fritz as husband, though. Hmm. Better his wife than his sibling or nephew, I say! No sex requirements (see also me being asexual) and no pregnancy! Also, he leaves me alone for decades at a time and I get to read books all day! If he expects me to hold court, that's going to be the only problem. But if "court" can consist of the Queen monologuing about history and philosophy and science to her bored courtiers (and possibly a few interested ones), it might actually be okay.

Dear Ferdinand,

They're all having fun in the countryside while I'm...

...Here reading books and writing essays, because the last time someone made me go out and 'have fun' in the countryside backyard was my parents, and I hated it.

Cheers!

So I think I'm swapping Fritz and Philip in your two sets.

The second set is a really tough call, though. If I don't take a lover, can I avoid getting locked up? I'm not a fan of the endless Marie Leszczynska pregnancies, can I foist Louis off on those females who move? I don't care about the English marriage project, but FW is going to expect me to fake marital love (with endless pregnancies), and I'm just so bad at faking.

I've gone with FW solely because I have a personal grudge against him, but tough call!

Now actually, marrying anyone in that century is something I'd do everything to avoid, and so should you

Hard agree.

[selenak]

G2 requires too much ego-stroking and time investment to convince him my ideas are his ideas. I don't have that kind of people skills or patience.

I hear you. I also suspect one reason why Caroline was so short tempered about her oldest son was that she used up all the patience and self discipline for managing her husband.

Better his wife than his sibling or nephew, I say!

Unless you have the misfortune of having fallen in love with him. As we've said, if EC hadn't done that, and hadn't had those few years together as Crown Princess when she could live under the delusion that he loved her, too, it would not have been so painful and disappointing for her. I see your points about how an arrangement with Fritz would suit you, but: are you sure you would have avoided falling for him early on, especially since you became a fan at the distance of centuries?

I'm now worriedly looking foward to learn more about Philip V: the later years.

[mildred_of_midgard]

are you sure you would have avoided falling for him early on, especially since you became a fan at the distance of centuries?

Yes, I'm sure. :)

[cahn]

Heh, Fritz is basically the epitome of "fandom favorite that I can be super fascinated with over a span of centuries but whom it is clear I Would Not Get Along With if we were actually together in real life."

Though I have to admit that if I were arranged-marriage to Heinrich I'd probably fall for him in person too, despite his super gayness, as long as he was nice to me -- that is, up until he started taking out his needstherapy!aggressions on me :P )

[mildred_of_midgard]

Heh, Fritz is basically the epitome of "fandom favorite that I can be super fascinated with over a span of centuries but whom it is clear I Would Not Get Along With if we were actually together in real life."

YES THIS. My problematic faves are practically selected on the basis of "would I hate this person in real life?" :P

Furthermore, being asexual, 99% aromantic, and non-neurotypical/spectrum-adjacent in my particular way means I can guarantee I wouldn't fall in love and be miserable because my husband is ignoring me and/or sleeping around.

This is why a husband who counts as terrible for anyone else might be okay for me as an arranged marriage, and a devoted and faithful husband might count as terrible for me. :P I may be an outlier who should not be counted.

(100% in agreement about not being locked up, though.)

[jesuswasbatman]

Everything you've written about Friedrich Wilhelm makes him sound like the vilest possible individual.

[selenak]

Well, to be fair: there were certainly viler individuals than him, and I'm not just talking about Gilles de Rais or Charles Manson. FW, the plus side: took over a bankrupt tiny kingdom which was also still suffering from the aftereffects of the most recent plague case and left it wealthy, with living conditions improved for just about everyone through a mixture of rigid austerity for the nobility (including himself; he immediately closed down most palaces, and cut down the royal household to the barest minimum), mercantile investment, settlement programs (within Brandenburg-Prussia, because between the 30 years war and then various plagues and his father changing the dukedom into a kingdom, which cost a lot of money, there had been a large population decrease), making school obligatory for everyone and founding hospitals (the famous Charité in Berlin was founded by him, for example). And he was that odd creature, a military fetishist (who built up the Prussian army into what it became) with a strong dislike of actual war (most likely because as a young crown prince, his first battle experience had been the most bloody, vicious battle of the 18th century before the 7 Years War, the one at Malplaquet). One biographer compared him to Robesspierre and called him a Jacobin on the throne, and there is truth in that. He was a hardcore Protestant workoholic who basically remade what had been a normal German principality among many in his image and singlehandedly created what later became considered Prussian mentality (except for the expansion part, that was his son).

On the downside, though: the single anecdote capturing his personality best is that of him going with his stick after a frightened citizen, yelling "you're not supposed to fear me, you're supposed to love me!" He'd been a (spoiled) only child himself and was completely incapable of imagining different children might react differently and have different likes and dislikes. So FW, son of one of the most sophisticated princesses of her time, was taught Latin as a child, hated it. Had to dance ballet as a child, hated it. Became a father, had the idea that his oldest son would of course be just like him and naturally would love manly occupations like hunting and playing soldier, and be grateful to be spared stupid Latin and stupid dancing and French manners - and then said son turned out to love book books, love music, French fashion, etc., and hate hunting, and he saw it as a direct rejection of himself, and things went worse from there. But you know, even if you discount his being a terrible father to his two oldest children (it was more complicated with the younger ones - he got along with them well as long as they were small and fed into his idea of himself as a pater familias adored by his family, plus in such a large family, naturally kid No.11 - 13 did not get the same laser focused (negative) attention as the oldest daughter and the oldest son), he did have an abusive streak a mile long. To me, the most chilling example of this, and the one that comes to mind whenever someone argues along the lines of "well, other than what he did to his son" and "well, at least unlike his son he didn't start any wars", is what he did, over two decades, to one Jacob Paul (von) Gundling, about which you can read all here. It's so chillingly cruel and without any reason or justification like "well, it was the time" or "well, he was afraid his life work would be ruined by another partying prince if he wasn't tough" (all of which you hear to this day). There was no other reason than "he wanted to, and he enjoyed doing it". And he didn't let up even after the poor man was dead.

Basically, what I'm saying is: there were certainly worse people than him. (Especially since the majority of his subjects undoubtedly benefited from his rule.) But what was terrible in him was so appalling to me that the virtues just don't outweigh the cruelty.

[jesuswasbatman]

Yes, it was your writing about Gundling that took me to that conclusion.

[cahn]

Nice poll, lol!

I voted for F1 but idk about those endless ceremonies either, now that mildred has brought it up. Though that is also a good point by mildred that maybe the mistresses would mean not having to be pregnant a billion times, though I guess that just really didn't work out that way for MT...

I feel like Gustav III and Louis XVI should be on some sort of list, although I don't know that it's either the dream or nightmare list exactly. Maybe a Seriously WTF?? list?

[mildred_of_midgard]

MT wanted to be pregnant a billion times, though!

Ooh, good point about Gustav! I'd forgotten about him.

[selenak]

Just a quick update, FS is still winning in the best husband category though F1 is neck to neck with him; also, FW is reigning champion in the "would not want to be married to" stakes, with G1 and Christian far behind.

[mildred_of_midgard]

F1 has pulled into the lead (9-7)!

[selenak]

I saw! Clearly, those nice palaces make a difference. :) Good for the much sneered at Gramps.

[selenak]

Gustav and Louis both didn't make the list because they defy categories. I mean, Louis on the one hand was a good husband, and not just if you compare him to other royals. No mistresses, sane (unlike Philip V), and with a placid temper (unlike FW). Devoted to his wife, not jealous of the people she was possibly in love with (be they Axel von Fersen or her two female bffs, Lamballe & Polignac). Roughly the same age as his wife, so not a decades older man, as was so often the case, again not just in the nobility. A good father, too.

On the downside: needed seven years to figure out penetration and ejaculation. On the even worse downside: having married him got her beheaded. Not really his or her fault, in that at this point of French history, just about any royal couple would have been doomed, but the fact remains, if she'd been married to someone else she would have lived. So I couldn't really put him into either the good or the bad husband category.

Gustav undoubtedly was a bad husband, in that he didn't pay much attention to his wife in general, and before the threesome, his idea of how to solve their childlessness was divorcing her, until someone pointed out to him that if he did that and she remarried and had kids by someone else, he was the one who'd look bad. (Since he didn't have bastards, he couldn't be sure whose the problem was.) But the threesome idea as a solution was something else. Certainly better than some of what the other royal husbands did, but not exactly good guy material, either.

[cahn]

Ha, yes, this is why I propose a "WTF" additional category :D

[avrelia]

The Poll is great, but I found myself very much unwilling to choose from the options above. The bad are truly horrible, and the good one are not that good. If I could pull Elizaveta of Russia and get the throne by myself (with a little help from my friends) and then secretly marry my lover, I can be content.

[selenak]

The bad are truly horrible, and the good one are not that good.

Like I said, personally, I would try my best to avoid marrying anyone! Re: Pavel I as spouse, well, if you're his second wife, okay, and even then, there's the oberbearing mother and your oldest son being taken by same much as it had happened to her with Paul, plus he cheats on you with the lady-in-waiting you like. If you're his first wife, you die gruesomely of childbirth, and your successor has already been chosen before you've breathed your last.

If I could pull Elizaveta of Russia and get the throne by myself (with a little help from my friends) and then secretly marry my lover, I can be content.

Definitely a better option than most marriages, but you'd have to deal with the fact that your choice of successors is limited by the fact you can't have legitimate children and so you have to pick either the tragically locked up (by you) kid (or his siblings) left over from the previous reign, or your nephew who has way too much admiration for your despised enemy.

[mildred_of_midgard]

If you're his first wife, you die gruesomely of childbirth

I submit that this has nothing to do with being Pavel's first wife and has entirely to do with her body and 18th century medicine! Otherwise, we have to point out that G2's wife died gruesomely of an umbilical hernia. Which is surely not G2's fault, nor guaranteed to happen to you if you marry him, so I don't think it should factor into the marriage decision.

If the risk of getting pregnant in the 18th century is an argument against a royal spouse who will impregnate you, then I reiterate the advantages of a gay husband taking out his Dad issues on you. ;)