January Meme: My most depressing fandom

[selenak]

ffutures asked about the most depressing fandom I enjoy, and why.


Weeeelllll. Not as easy to answer as one might think. A fandom can be depressing because some of the other fans reliably hate on the canon you yourself enjoy and keep going through the same circles of fanwank, after all. Or depression can set in because the creator turns out to have a rotten core. (Mind you, as someone who likes most, though not all of Wagner's operas, I'm hardened against that effect. Between having an awful personality, being an antisemite and having Hitler as a fanboy, Wagner certainly makes the terms "problematic" feel hilariously euphemistic.) But I'm going out on a limb here and shall guess the question aims at the canon content.

Here, again, one has to qualify. I mean, Breaking Bad in theory sounds like a joyless exercise in grimdark - starts with the main character discovering he has cancer and deciding to go into the drug business,, and that's him at his most sympathetic, has meth production as a major plot device, and doesn't hide the awful effect meth addiction has on people;, puts its characters, especially the sidekick who graduates to second main character through hell on a regular basis. And yet, I'd never call the show "depressing", and not just because it's full of black humor; it's full of three dimensional characters one can't help but empathize with, and those who look like they're stereotypes at first reliably will make you want to serve them chicken soup if you're not laughing with them (as opposed to at them). (Well. Perhaps not food that's made of chicken. There's a certain problem with that.) And one can say similar things about its spin-off, Better Call Saul, which has found its own distinct voice and made me love it just as much.

I suppose I'll have to reply with "history". Because let's face it: rarely, if ever, does it offer a happy ending to the people you want to have one, relationships often go just how you don't want them to go, there are way too many similar sounding names in any given period, and it has no sense of a proper plot with clear storylines, proper dramatic climaxes followed by comic relief and/or a relaxing epilogue. Instead, either everything happens all at once or there are interminable dull periods which you nonetheless have to plough through because otherwise you wouldn't understand what's going on. And let's not even mention the attitudes of most chroniclers you have to put up with when you read primary sources. As for whether anyone learns anything that lasts, and proper character development sticks? Err. Sometimes? Not to mention: no matter how many AUs you might write, the people who died in rl still died this same way. So yeah. History it is.

It's also fascinating and bonkers and full of characters and outrageous plot developments I can't get enough of, so I don't believe I'll quit any time soon.

The other days

Comments

[ratcreature]

I think of canons that got canceled before their time, and also failed to built a vibrant fandom as my most depressing...

[ffutures]

OK, yes, history definitely qualifies. Thanks!

[selenak]

You're welcome!

[mildred_of_midgard]

How did I guess you were going to say history? ;)

Everything you said is SO TRUE, especially "no matter how many AUs you might write, the people who died in rl still died this same way" (I feel like you maybe had me in mind when writing this?) and "It's also fascinating and bonkers and full of characters and outrageous plot developments I can't get enough of, so I don't believe I'll quit any time soon." :D

Also, even the ones who in rl lived long lives and died in their beds (or chairs)...they still lived this same way. I'm looking at you, Fritz and Heinrich, Fritz and Voltaire. If you'd been more well-adjusted and happier, I likely wouldn't be studying you, but I don't envy you your lives, and I'm sorry that happened to you. But since it did, bring on the popcorn!

[cahn]

History is so depressing :P So much cycle of abuse that usually doesn't get broken! (Thanks Anna Amalia for being the exception <3333) Everyone dies at the end! And usually without a cathartic scene where all the misunderstandings and emotional rifts get patched up! >:(

It's also fascinating and bonkers and full of characters and outrageous plot developments I can't get enough of, so I don't believe I'll quit any time soon.

And you get the exceptions, and sometimes Voltaire people can be both terrible and unexpectedly awesome, and I love that the awesomeness is RL and actually happened <3

there are way too many similar sounding names in any given period

I laughed :P

[selenak]

Same here, and yes, of course I was thinking of you as well as me. :)

[liriaen]

History, gods, oh yes. I so hear you. Although the nth AU and fix-it-endings beckon, the inevitability of reality looms large and constantly bites the ankles of every ambitious happy ending we want to give them. Perhaps that's one of the reasons why the "Cesare" mangaka threw in the towel after spending over 13 years on her labour of love; wheedle new facets from the story and invent fascinating sidesteps as she might, the outcome would always be the same... (unless she'd choose to go the way You Higuri did with her supernatural Borgia manga "Cantarella", which derailed - after much flailing - into a grotesque version of "rocks fall, everyone dies").

[selenak]

the outcome would always be the same..

One of the Borgias tv shows actually has Cesare faking his death to escape to an anonymous happily ever after, which, well, if ever was someone temperamentally unsuited to this option, even if he'd somehow managed to fake a death where he gets hacked to pieces...

[liriaen]

... faked... his... death. Wow, I had no idea! "Temperally unsuited" - well hella! As if he could spell "lay low": yeaaaaah, I can totally see him sitting in front of a cottage in the Pyrenees, twiddling his thumbs and enjoying the sunset. :D :D :D As if.

[watervole]

Ah, history...

The folk dancers nightmare.

"And a morris dance was performed by the workers" What were the moves? How many were in the set? What music did they use? What instruments? What were they wearing?

Throw us a bone!

Even pictures are often copied from earlier pictures and lose context as a result.

At least the occasional rare pictures of sword dancers give you a good idea of what moves they were doing in a way that is impossible with morris

https://www.britannica.com/art/sword-dance - is a wonderful historical one - needs way too many people for our team to replicate, but wonderful theatre!

[elisi]

Very interesting question. I immediately thought of the delightful contradiction of Hannibal - a show that glories in grotesque violence, and yet the fandom is full of flower crowns and happy murder!husbands... there is a definite point to be made to make a distinction between 'show' and 'fandom', since some shows are difficult to enjoy *because* of the fandom, and some are the other way around.

'History' is a genius answer though, the most unforgiving canon of all. (The opposite of Doctor Who where a character can have 6 different outcomes - I'm thinking specifically of Peri - and you just have to pick the one you prefer.)

[selenak]

Hannibal: I guess, since I quit after watching eight episodes and decided it was not for me, despite having liked earlier Bryan Fuller endeavours and having read the first three Lecter novels back in the day, plus having watched the respective film versions. I suppose I just was over oh-so-clever serial killers and their complicated murders at this point. But the fandom seems to have had fun!

Oh, I wish we had multiple outcomes of a Peri like nature for quite a lot of historical people, but alas, no such thing. Except in temporarily soothing fiction. :)

[elisi]

Hannibal: I guess, since I quit after watching eight episodes and decided it was not for me
Hmmmm, yeah. You do need to get past the first season before it really starts to Do Its Thing. Which is a difficult thing to explain... Eventually, over time, 'ethics become aesthetics'. Lemme quote Promethia:

'The main things are really intense psychological/symbolic horror and achingly aesthetic gore--like, both really gross and incredibly stylized. There's very little in the ways of jump scares, and there's nothing supernatural going on, which cuts out big swathes of what counts as horror (and no sexual violence--this was a production rule). There's some active scenes of violence, but it's very much not a primary mode. I swear in my head 90% of this show is two people sitting across from each other talking in poetic abstractions while they try to psychoanalyze each other into an aneurism, intercut with artistically arranged body parts. That's not entirely the reality, but it's really like nothing else. The first season does start out feeling more conventional--something like a very artistic procedural--and has a bit of a Silence of the Lambs feel, but it gradually goes off the deep end as you go along and before you know it you're staring mesmerized by shots of snails and wondering what happened.'

My icon really sums it up, tbh. I once tried to explain it as 'emotional pain shown as physical violence' which also fits. It's meta-heavy twenty leagues deep. Mind you, not for everyone, and the gore is... *shudders*. My husband bowed out halfway through S3 (not because of gore, it just didn't work for him), but YE GODS, the payoff if you stay with it. It's beautiful and terrible. Like... living inside Angelus's head. (Again, see icon.)

oh-so-clever serial killers and their complicated murders at this point.
Hannibal spoils its viewers. I remember watching my first random murder-mystery-tv-episode after finishing Hannibal, and the murderer just got rid of the body rather than turn it into a complicated artistic metaphor for their issues. It was terribly disappointing. *g*

Oh, I wish we had multiple outcomes of a Peri like nature for quite a lot of historical people, but alas, no such thing. Except in temporarily soothing fiction. :)
Soothing fiction is a good thing.