'Ships III, and fanfiction links
Mar. 27th, 2005 08:37 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakLast round ouf 'ships replies, except for the Boomer/Tyrol thing which as I said will tie in to a larger post about gender expectations and audience reactions. Probably combined with some words on the lines of "Benjamin Sisko in Rapture and Laura Roslin in Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I - compare and contrast audience reaction to a male and a female leader dealing with visions".
Now, 'ships:
She’s his mother, his lover, his damnation and the original blonde obsession in his life. He’s her darling boy whom she created, banished and returned to time and again. When they have souls, they’re especially good at hurting each other. God doesn’t want him, but she still does. And the child they made together is doom and salvation at the same time; they can acknowledge they love him even though they cannot admit they loved each other.
Is it any wonder that this was the only “romantic” AtS pairing I was truly rooting for?
Old friends turned enemies are not unheard of, but these are mortal enemies turning true friends. But not before Londo did horrible things to G’Kar’s people and G’Kar did horrible things to Londo. Individually, they have the two most amazing arcs. Two very similar men, one becoming a prophet against his will, the other going from war criminal to living sacrifice. Together, they’re each other’s destiny. In between, there is hilarious bickering, snark without end, and the most touching moment of grace and forgiveness ever. (Well, in sci-fi anyway.)
And this is just the part which is canon. How can one not ‘ship them, I ask you?
He was the only B5 staff member who behaved consistently decent towards her, and gave her regard and respect throughout. She went through exploitation after exploitation by everyone else until she finally had enough and snapped. It’s significant that the only time he dared to actually tell her how he felt she didn’t hear him at all, due to an alien entity. Though they had their pizza-related light-hearted moments of friendship, I don’t think it could have ever worked, sad to say. Lyta was always going to seek higher causes to totally dedicate herself towards - she went from believing in the Corps to believing in the Vorlons to believing in Byron to believing in the destruction of the Corps as her personal mission – and Zack could never have been that to her.
***
The Hugo Award Nominations are out. Angel got two nominations, for Smile Time and Not Fade Away... and Battlestar Galactica is nominated in the same category, for 33. Argh, I'm torn! Whom to root for? (Well, not Lost and Stargate, the other two nominees. Sorry, J.J., but my loyalties are with the Whedon Scribes and Ron Moore. If only they weren't pitted against each other!)
Anyway, so glad BSG got a nomination in its first season. Thinking back on all the naysayers, it feels most satisfying.
***
The obscure comics characters ficathon produced some great results. As opposed to the movies, which consistently manage to ruin his characters (*cough From Hell, Constantine, LXG*cough), fanfiction did right by Alan Moore here. One of the most interesting relationships in the Leage of Extraordinary Gentlemen (as written by Moore, not as butchered in the film) was the one between Mina Murray and Edward Hyde. One of the best things about fanfic is that it can pick point of views the original author hasn't explored. (And League itself is in a way Moore-written fanfic of various Victorian and Edwardian novels.) Que Viene El Coco describes Mina and her relationship with Hyde from the point of view of Henry Jekyll. Dark and fascinating.
"Invisible" takes on another Alan Moore character, Rorschach from Watchmen, at a crucial point in his life. Rorschach is incredibly difficult to get right - Moore took great care to make him human, but was appalled by the "legion of self-righteous vigilantes" (to quote Moore) he spawned in comicdom. This story keeps the perfect balance. This is Rorschach, creepy as hell, and yet one does feel for him.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: all Sandman spin-offs should be written by Mike Carey. His Lucifer series has a similar epic scale combined with intimate stories. I don't love it in the same way I do Sandman, but I do admire it, and especially his take on Mazikeen. So I was very glad to find this fannish portrait of her.
***
To everyone who celebrates: Happy Easter.
Now, 'ships:
She’s his mother, his lover, his damnation and the original blonde obsession in his life. He’s her darling boy whom she created, banished and returned to time and again. When they have souls, they’re especially good at hurting each other. God doesn’t want him, but she still does. And the child they made together is doom and salvation at the same time; they can acknowledge they love him even though they cannot admit they loved each other.
Is it any wonder that this was the only “romantic” AtS pairing I was truly rooting for?
Old friends turned enemies are not unheard of, but these are mortal enemies turning true friends. But not before Londo did horrible things to G’Kar’s people and G’Kar did horrible things to Londo. Individually, they have the two most amazing arcs. Two very similar men, one becoming a prophet against his will, the other going from war criminal to living sacrifice. Together, they’re each other’s destiny. In between, there is hilarious bickering, snark without end, and the most touching moment of grace and forgiveness ever. (Well, in sci-fi anyway.)
And this is just the part which is canon. How can one not ‘ship them, I ask you?
He was the only B5 staff member who behaved consistently decent towards her, and gave her regard and respect throughout. She went through exploitation after exploitation by everyone else until she finally had enough and snapped. It’s significant that the only time he dared to actually tell her how he felt she didn’t hear him at all, due to an alien entity. Though they had their pizza-related light-hearted moments of friendship, I don’t think it could have ever worked, sad to say. Lyta was always going to seek higher causes to totally dedicate herself towards - she went from believing in the Corps to believing in the Vorlons to believing in Byron to believing in the destruction of the Corps as her personal mission – and Zack could never have been that to her.
***
The Hugo Award Nominations are out. Angel got two nominations, for Smile Time and Not Fade Away... and Battlestar Galactica is nominated in the same category, for 33. Argh, I'm torn! Whom to root for? (Well, not Lost and Stargate, the other two nominees. Sorry, J.J., but my loyalties are with the Whedon Scribes and Ron Moore. If only they weren't pitted against each other!)
Anyway, so glad BSG got a nomination in its first season. Thinking back on all the naysayers, it feels most satisfying.
***
The obscure comics characters ficathon produced some great results. As opposed to the movies, which consistently manage to ruin his characters (*cough From Hell, Constantine, LXG*cough), fanfiction did right by Alan Moore here. One of the most interesting relationships in the Leage of Extraordinary Gentlemen (as written by Moore, not as butchered in the film) was the one between Mina Murray and Edward Hyde. One of the best things about fanfic is that it can pick point of views the original author hasn't explored. (And League itself is in a way Moore-written fanfic of various Victorian and Edwardian novels.) Que Viene El Coco describes Mina and her relationship with Hyde from the point of view of Henry Jekyll. Dark and fascinating.
"Invisible" takes on another Alan Moore character, Rorschach from Watchmen, at a crucial point in his life. Rorschach is incredibly difficult to get right - Moore took great care to make him human, but was appalled by the "legion of self-righteous vigilantes" (to quote Moore) he spawned in comicdom. This story keeps the perfect balance. This is Rorschach, creepy as hell, and yet one does feel for him.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: all Sandman spin-offs should be written by Mike Carey. His Lucifer series has a similar epic scale combined with intimate stories. I don't love it in the same way I do Sandman, but I do admire it, and especially his take on Mazikeen. So I was very glad to find this fannish portrait of her.
***
To everyone who celebrates: Happy Easter.
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no subject
Date: 2005-03-27 06:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-03-27 08:04 am (UTC)Ah, such a good observation. Yes, Angel/Darla is up there with my most loved Jossverse ships too. (along with Wes/Lilah -- the truly doomed; Spike/Buffy -- no, they're not doomed dammit; and Mal/Inara -- not doomed yet, but I'm sure Joss will find a way).
no subject
Date: 2005-03-27 08:33 am (UTC)I'm sure he will. That's why we love him.*g*
no subject
Date: 2005-03-27 12:47 pm (UTC)Also word on Mike Carey - DAMN, he's good. Just read 'The Furies', which is splendid. Other than Carey, all the Sandman spinoff books I've read have been disappointing, but Carey makes his stuff fly.
::skips off to read fic::
no subject
Date: 2005-03-27 01:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-03-27 01:22 pm (UTC)Both of those fics are quite brilliant.
Not sure what I think of Not Fade Away getting a Hugo nomination. I know you disagree with fan theories that would minimise Whedon's personal involvement with AtS, but I still can't rid myself of the feeling that David Greenwalt created a show that fit perfectly with my own moral feelings, and Joss came in and screwed it up because he was unhappy with his patrons. I recently saw an interview with Brad Bird in which he discussed the superhuman-citizen conflict in The Incredibles, and expressed himself bemused by the Randian and pro-aristocratic messages many people read into it. I can't help thinking that Incredibles and Not Fade Away are twin examples of the unpleasant results that can occur when creative artists who feel themselves unappreciated by their patrons assume that their feelings in that peculiar situation are typical of the general human condition.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-27 02:03 pm (UTC)Hm. If Tim Minear's interviews are anything to go by - and you have to admit that he was very, very influential for AtS - Joss' influence was anything but minimal. Unless you want to speculate Tim M. fibbed because he liked Wedon better than Greenwalt, whom he doesn't name half as often when talking about plot points or story decisions.
And when I compare the last Greenwaltian finale, Tomorrow, with either Home or Not Fade Away - no prizes for guessing which I like better. (Which btw isn't to say I exonorate Joss completely from the season 3 mess and blame it all on David G., but he did say himself in interviews during seasons 2 and 3 that the show was going to be lighter, and he advocated Angel/Cordelia and talked about how Cordy had to be a Champion, so one cannot but assume he originated these. Joss I blame for the uneven writing of Fred, if you're curious.) So I have to admit my fondness for the Greenwalt-less seasons 4 and 5 may prejudice me in Joss' favour, but...
...do you really think AtS would have ended differently if the WB had greenlighted a sixth season? Other than the death of Wesley, I mean? Or do you mean with Greenwalt still at the helm, either as co- or as sole chief executive producer, the Wolfram & Hart storyline would not have gone the "individuals can't work from within the system" route? In that case, let me point out that I doubt Greenwalt would have put Angel & Co. in W&H to begin with. That was a classic Minear move.
Finally: I do get what you're feeling, because I feel that way about Carnivale...
no subject
Date: 2005-03-27 04:45 pm (UTC)As far as the question of Not Fade Away and the possible ending if AtS6 had been offered - what I've heard is that Not Fade Away was always planned as the ending of AtS5. However, I think that it definitely has a rather different message as the ending of the series than the ending of a season - the fact that there was nothing afterwards gives it a resonance as a final statement that can't quite be taken away no matter how much you argue it was intended to be later subverted. Whether the ending could have been rewritten in the time available, I don't know. (Certainly a lot of my issues about the message of AtS5 in general could have been prevented if the episode had been rewritten to show people who hadn't come into W&H with Angel joining him against the Partners in the end.)
P.S.
Date: 2005-03-27 02:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-03-31 02:55 pm (UTC)Your Bester/Garibaldi is coming, promise...
no subject
Date: 2005-03-31 03:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-04-01 07:44 pm (UTC)