Babylon 5 Rewatch: GROPOS/ All Alone in the Night

[selenak]

GROPOS

I freely confess the main reason why I didn't skip this episode is that I regard the Dodger/Garibaldi part of it as the prequel to the Neil Gaiman episode in season 5, Day of the Dead - which I love -, and this alone makes it all worth it. But I also found it interesting to rewatch it, because I hadn't during my previous rewatchs, and also much younger me, the first time watcher, had just Firm Opinions on something in it which Older Me has somewhat modified. It is this: Young Me looked at this episode much as I looked at Aliens, said "US military propaganda, ugh!" and therefore I disliked it. (Yes, really. I didn't like the most popular Alien movie because of the Marines. I'm still not that fond of it, but I can appreciate some other aspects.) A gazillion movies and tv shows featuring sympathetic military ((US or otherwise) later, this reflex, as it turns out, isn't there anymore. I mean, I still think it is a collection of US military tropes, especially Franklin and his father, complete with "I love you, Dad!" as the grand clilmax of that particular storyline, and definitely not the show's finest hour since there is nothing done to subvert the by-the-numbers bit of it (except with Garibaldi and Dodger, I'll get to this, but no wonder these few scenes stuck with Gaiman). And it's noticable (again) that network-imposed pilot Warren Keefer doesn't get one bit of creator love from JMS since his scenes with the grunts sharing his quarters do exactly nothing to flesh Keefer out at all, whereas at least the equally cliché scenes between the two Franklins contribute to Stephen's background and are specific to him.

But. Young me hadn't yet read JMS memoirs. Old me thinks that what looked to a standard Strict Military Dad (bad) to young me actually, compared with rl Stracynski Sr., was downright fluffy. If you haven't read the book but have watched Sense 8, there's a reason why he referred to Wolfgang's family (and father) as a very personal contribution to the saga in a tweet. No kidding. And this in turn makes me wonder about the sheer number of positive or at least redeemable father and mentor figures in his pre Sense8 work, and suddenly the Franklins plotline feels like someone's comfort fic.

Leaving this Doylist aspect aside, the episode is also noticably an example of how the "last, best hope for peace" is about to fail not juist because of the new Narn/Centauri war. The new Earth Government is far more prone to use military force, and note they've designed the rebels as the bad guys. And of course it features the first scene showing Delenn's new hybrid state, far from bringing humans and Minbari closer as intended, instead invokes direct hostility. Now the soldier attacking Delenn (and his buddies) is painted as a xenophobic jerk (he calls her a freak, the menacing body language read to me as a rape threat in a way it didn't when I watched decades earlier, and later in the episode, he's a jerk all over again so we really don't miss THIS IS A BAD GUY), but he's the first character to bring up something that will be brought up again this season in a more extended scene sans physical threat - how does Delenn think humans whose family members were killed by Minbari feel about a Minbari making herself physically human?

Other than introducing the theme of (negative) repercussions Delenn's new state has for her, the scene offers Dodger a chance to become instantly sympathetic by defending Delenn (in word and deed). After all that nitpicking about clichés: it's not so very unusual anymore now, but I think decades ago Elizabeth Dorman, aka Dodger, was the first female character I saw who reversed the clichés I was used to on my tv screen until then - she's the one going for a one night stand, Garibaldi is the one hesitating because he wants to figure out the relationship (well, have one) before sex first. (Which also makes sense for him at this point.) The subplot isn't resolved by them hooking up after all, but not for moral reasons. She was unapologietic, she had spark, but also a keen sense of right and wrong (as evidenced in the Delenn defense). And then she dies, which young me had not seen coming - I mean, I did see she was a girl of the week rather than a new regular, sure, but Garibaldi had better chemistry with her than with Lise (or Talia, for that matter, which is ironic given the actors were dating/married at that point), and I was hoping she'd be back for a few episodes more. Older me isn't surprised anymore but still likes Dodgers a lot, including the fact she comes across as an adult woman in her 30s, and briefly wonders what it would have been like if she'd been a recurring character, giving us a ground level experience of Earth Force in the times ahead. Also a part of me wants to skip forward to s5, but I won't.


All Alone in the Night

You know, it's been enough years that I had forgotten the episode where Sheridan gets kidnapped, - and meets Ta'lon, hi, Ta'lon! - and Delenn gets sacked from the Grey Council is also the one where General Hague shows up to fill us, and Sheridan, in to the fact that some parts of the military brass have their eyes on Clark & Co. because of the Santiago assassination and are Up To Something, and that this is why Sheridan ended up on B5. (Hague was briefly seen in the teaser of the first episode this season, starting to give Sheridan the job news.) I have to say that as far as counter conspiracies go, in principle I'd feel a bit better if General Hague thought branching out to involve some civilian politicians would also be a good idea. Then again, in the years the Orange Menace ruled, the world found itself in the odd position of having to trust the US military top brass would not go along with a coup and/or would refuse to blow up the world at the Orange Menace's orders, so.

I also had forgotten who actually did kidnap Sheridan and Ta'Lon; only when Delenn said "Strieb" (spelling?) I finally recalled the name again. BTW, I now have a conspiracy theory about that, but it's a spoilery for the remaining show one, so I'll voice it later. This whole subplot the first time around to me felt very Trekian with Sheridan's refusal to fight-to-kill and bonding with his fellow captive, but the dream imagery plus Kosh repeating the same words out loud to Sheridan once he was back added some B5ish frisson and so I was mildly curious. (Rewatching me has a conspiracy theory, as I said.) But the true meat of the episode to me is the Minbari plot line. This is where Delenn faces the consequences of several of her decisions last season - not just the hybridisation - and it's not pretty. There's the high handed way she treated Neroon in "Legacies", first creating a problem (the body theft of Brammer) and then pulling rank on Nerroon to solve it, not even attempting to explain. Back in the day when Delenn protested that four seats on the Council for the Warrior Caste were inbalancing everything and that the Warrior Caste couldn't be trusted to lead, younger me, prone to distrust the military (see above), did not question her being in the right there. Older rewatching me has way more sympathy for Neroon (and not just because of the entire show knowledge), because it really is, well, something, having to fight a war, never being told why you had to surrender when you were winning (until now), and the religious caste (I doubt Delenn is atypical here) making it very clear they regard themselves as better and you lesser, not suited for leadership throughout.

Now, of course the hostility towards Delenn shown by her former colleagues (and Neroon) now is presented as bigotry in terms of their rejection of her hybrid status. But, and the episode brings this up, contrary to what she told everyone on B5 after her transformation was complete, she didn't act with the approval and definitely not with with the authority of the Grey Council when deciding to transform herself, she acted explicitly against it. And she had rejected their choice of her as leader beforre. All this as well as a general Minbari isolationism contributes to her new ostracisation. Which isn't to say her decisions were wrong in the long term. But in the short term, they now demand a price she must pay, and Delenn, who until now was one of the highest ranking people in her society, treated with deference and obedience by most of her fellow Minbari, and admired and liked by most, this is completely new.

It's also where the relationship between her and Lennier starts to change. His loyalty to her is personal now, and while he has followed her lead until then, we now see him take the initiiatve, swearing himself to her side (and to Delenn specifically, not to the Ambassador or Satai), coming with her unasked. As Delenn notes, it's a far cry from the shy young man who didn't dare to look her in the eyes when he arrived. But she also has changed. I don't think it struck me back then that this is the first time when Delenn shows a blatant emotional need for the loyalty and support Lennier offers. "Never alone" indeed. Now I think they would have gotten closer if she hadn't been expelled from the Council as well, but her new isolation certainly contributes to the intensity of it. Note, though, that however draining an emotional experience that was for Delenn, she's back on top of her game when dealing with the Strieb after her return. Ond now on to my new (to me) spoilery theory.

You

have

always

been

there.

Soooo, at this point a first time watcher is prone to see the Vorlons in general and Kosh in particular as good; mysterious, but essentially good. However, bearing in mind what we find out about the Vorlons later, and that Kosh himself - who does care about Our Heroes - isn't above using Jack the Ripper as a way to test their suitability for fighting the Shadows later, what are the chances that Sheridan encountered the Strieb at this point by sheer coincidence? And with a Narn as a fellow pirsoner to boot? Is there any canonical reason, fellow veterans, why the entire expierence couldn't have been set up by Kosh in order to figure out what New Guy Sheridan is made of with an eye on the Shadow fight ahead?

Do

you know

who I

am?



The other episodes

Comments

[cahn]

Young Me looked at this episode much as I looked at Aliens, said "US military propaganda, ugh!" and therefore I disliked it.

Oh, interesting! Because I thought from the beginning (as a no-longer-young person watching it) they were all doomed (what with Sheridan constantly repeating that it was going to be a lot harder than General Franklin thought it was), and for me it was very telling that we cut directly from the scene where Franklin visibly relaxes at seeing his dad alive, to the scenes where All The Other Characters we came to actually like were dead, for what was essentially a futile reason -- their plan was basically guaranteed to inflict heavy casualties, Sheridan (the subject matter expert) told him it was a bad/flawed plan, Gen. Franklin went through with it anyway because his superiors told him to do it (it's not clear whether his superiors understood the anticipated casualty level on the level that Sheridan did, but it seems plausible they didn't). For me, if anything, it was anti-military or at least anti-war -- though I wonder if some of it is a USian thing, as I've, uh, seen a lot of stuff that is rather more blatant about its pro-military leanings, lol.

(The surprising part for me was that Franklin's dad didn't die too; I thought when they had their emotionally cathartic making up scene that he was also totally doomed. Now, if I'd watched this when younger and rather less genre-savvy and before the advent of grimdark, I wouldn't have seen any of the doom coming and that would have shocked me even more.)

And it's noticable (again) that network-imposed pilot Warren Keefer doesn't get one bit of creator love from JMS since his scenes with the grunts sharing his quarters do exactly nothing to flesh Keefer out at all, whereas at least the equally cliché scenes between the two Franklins contribute to Stephen's background and are specific to him.

Me: Wait, that's Keefer? :P

But seriously, his actor seemed... not so good. Like, he didn't have much to work with in the script, true, but he didn't have that much less than his gropos scene buddies, and even as a bundle of cliches, the grunts were at least alive enough that I liked them and was sad when they died. But Keefer, I got no sense of him at all! (Was he the guy who died in "All Alone in the Night?" I admit there's also the part where I just can't tell male actors apart in general, but also he's such a cipher that I can't tell him apart in particular.)

I have to say that as far as counter conspiracies go, in principle I'd feel a bit better if General Hague thought branching out to involve some civilian politicians would also be a good idea.

Lol, this is all still consistent with my PsiCorps dystopian headcanon! :D

because it really is, well, something, having to fight a war, never being told why you had to surrender when you were winning (until now), and the religious caste (I doubt Delenn is atypical here) making it very clear they regard themselves as better and you lesser, not suited for leadership throughout.

Yeah. Interesting though that Neroon explains why they didn't tell him, in that he is like "yeah I wouldn't have stopped fighting if you'd told me THAT was the reason!" But I still feel they could have handled it better than keeping it a total secret and then up and telling him when they made him a Grey Council type.

One of the things that I noticed about Delenn that I hadn't before was how her human transition has given her so many more (or possibly more human?) facial expressions. I suppose some of this has to do with the alien makeup/costuming, but it was really evident when she was in the Grey Council how different her facial expressions were from Minbari!Delenn (when she'd been there the previous time), which I thought was really neat.

Also: so I know it's been a rather intense six months on B5. But with the exception of Ivanova (who knew him before), I'm not sure I'd be like "commiting possible treason with you? Sure, sounds great!" with my boss after six months!

[selenak]

For me, if anything, it was anti-military or at least anti-war

Oh, I agree, today. But Young Me had only recently become politically interested and thus prone to be extra paranoid in that direction, so I thought we were meant to see the soldiers as having died a heroic death.

But Keefer, I got no sense of him at all! (Was he the guy who died in "All Alone in the Night?"

No, the dying guy was called Ramirez. As I said in my season opening review, Warren Keefer is the one example where the "the writer/creator/producer hates this character", which I usually dismiss as fannish hyperbole, was literally true, and you can see JMS is not doing ANYTHING to make the audience care about this guy. (Result: as intended. No one cared.) I wouldn't have been able to tell him apart from the rest back in the day, either, and this time I only can because I know and also he's in the credits.

Interesting though that Neroon explains why they didn't tell him, in that he is like "yeah I wouldn't have stopped fighting if you'd told me THAT was the reason!"

Incidentally, it's a never answered question as to whether this would have been true for the majority of warriors. (Which says something interesting about how deep seated the Minbari faith is and isn't in their society at this point of their history.) Though it's worth renembering that the entire Grey Council, including the three Warrior Caste members, knew and kept the secret later. But then again, the three Warrior Caste members could not have overridden the other six.

One of the things that I noticed about Delenn that I hadn't before was how her human transition has given her so many more (or possibly more human?) facial expressions. I suppose some of this has to do with the alien makeup/costuming, but it was really evident when she was in the Grey Council how different her facial expressions were from Minbari!Delenn (when she'd been there the previous time), which I thought was really neat.

Agreed. For what it's worth, out of my memory: In season 4, there's a Delenn centric episode where we see flashbacks to various pre show events, where Mira Furlan plays Delenn with the full Minbari make-up again, but I think she has way more facial expressions there as well than she does in s1, but then again, this is a far younger Delenn in a way more stressful situation than the serene woman we meet at the start of the show, so I honestly can't say how much of that change was intentional and how much due the actress in s1 still getting used to the make-up. Either way, it works with the character's journey.


so I know it's been a rather intense six months on B5. But with the exception of Ivanova (who knew him before), I'm not sure I'd be like "commiting possible treason with you? Sure, sounds great!" with my boss after six months!

LOL, true, but then again, they had all been going through the Santiago assassination experience, and the attempt to stop it, together, i.e. Garibaldi and Franklin both know there really was/is a conspiracy and has been a successful coup d'etat.

[beatrice_otter]

I think it's extremely plausible that Kosh would set it up as a test, and in fact more plausible than that it just happened randomly.

[selenak]

*nods* Yes, that's what I thought, and was surprised it never occured to me before.

[princessofgeeks]

I really enjoyed both these episodes right out of the box; I liked Dodger very much for the reasons you state.

[watervole]

I always loved Dodger.

I still recall the first time I saw that episode, on a video tape mailed by a friend who was recording it in Hawaii.

"Nice butt" Women are allowed to say that? We can actually appreciate men? She's different! I like her.

[jesuswasbatman]

FYI the Streib were named after the US horror novelist and purported alien abductee Whitley Strieber, whose descriptions of his encounters with aliens helped to cement the "Gray" alien 👽 in the public consciousness.

[selenak]

I dimly renembered them being named after a writer, but had forgotten which one!

[jesuswasbatman]

And as you might remember I have my own explanation of one aspect of Sheridan's vision which is different to his later exegesis of it, which I'll wait until early S4 to state.

[watervole]

Hmm. I could see Kosh wanting to create a point where Sherridan's mind was still and empty enough for him to be able to make contact.

There's definitely logic to that - I like it.

A very good analysis of Delenn's attitude to the Grey Council coming back to bite her.

I think this is also the point where she fails to spot that Lenier's devotion to her is more than purely platonic. (Note, I still think that a future episode relating to this is totally out of character for Lenier, but Delenn is still blind.)