Babylon 5 Rewatch: There All the Honor Lies/ And now for a word

[selenak]

The All the Honor Lies

Aka the second Peter David episode, and unless I‘m misrenembering the last non-JMS written B5 episode until s5‘s The Day of the Dead by Neil Gaiman. He wrote the remaining series all on his lonesome, a feat that still awes me decades later and surely is a large reason for B5 having its distinctive voice. (Also its flaws. For better or worse, this wasn‘t a show creator who could delegate.)

Now, my favourite David contribution to B5 remains Soul Mates, but I like this one, too, which deftly interweaves its various plots - Sheridan and the Minbari mystery, Sheridan and Kosh, the B5 merchandise, Vir and Londo -, and offers a good mixture of humor, suspense, and in the case of Vir‘s first big scene, about which more in a moment, heartbreak. Mind you, the „Minbari don‘t lie“ => murder/death happens => human detective finds the exception(s) to the rule“ plot reaaaaallly feels like it‘s taken directly from Star Trek and the Vulcans, but while Delenn in particular has been lying by omission (though not directly) a couple of times, it just about works with previously established Minbari lore. It features of ongoing resentment and tension due to the Earth/Minbari war, Delenn‘s outcast status post hybridization, and Lennier‘s loyalty to her, and it‘s another step on the path of Sheridan and Delenn getting closer as he finds a compromise solution that allows the Minbari to save face once she and Lennier have helped him find out the truth. Also, it provides us with a cameo of Original Na‘Toth without alien make-up, i.e. Julie Caitlin Brown returns as Sheridan‘s lawyer, and my only regret about this is that she doesn‘t get to do much, let alone a nifty court scene. Though I can accept the world building logic there, since as she says, if Sheridan had gone to trial it would have burned his reputation with the Minbari, no matter the outcome.

The Kosh subplot with Sheridan experiencing „beauty in the dark“ via hearing the Pakh‘ mara sing is oddly touching, and as ever, I get mushy once they start to sing. Though why they sound like a Gregorian monks choir remains another Vorlon mystery. :)

(There‘s also a lovely sort of call back to the unexpected Pakh‘mara ability to sing beautifully in the show finale via the story Vir tells.)

The B5 merchandise plot is pure comic relief, complete with a dig at the competition - „we‘re not just some kind of deep space franchise, this station is about something!“ - and a spaced teddy bear, and the logic doesn‘t hold up (as a lot of episodes this season, including the next one, point out, the station needs all the money it can legally get) and is a bit holier-than-though, but Londo‘s and then Sheridan‘s indignation about their respective toy alter egos is still hilarious, so, whatever.

But my main reason for regarding this episode as a must is, of course, the Vir subplot. The scene where Vir tells Londo he‘s been transferred and lashes out for the first time is where I realised, back in the day, how good Stephen Furst is as an actor. No, this isn‘t the first time we see Vir in a serious role instead of as comic relief - very recently, he told Londo not to start a war, remember. But it‘s the first time where he‘s serious in a scene focused on Vir, and this scene tells us so much both about Vir‘s past (the lack of love and even the slightest sense of respect in his family) and present (how sharing Londo‘s secrets makes him feel). It‘s also another big step in the Londo & Vir relationship as Londo responds by throwing his newly gained status weight behind keeping Vir as his aide (i.e. he threatens to leave as well if Vir gets transferred). Now, I do think he has pragmatic reasons for this in addition to emotional ones - for starters, a new aide sent from Centauri Prime at this point is bound to be someone ambitious and most likely a spy (from Refa, who doesn‘t know yet how Londo got that convenient military back-up, or from another powerful noble) - but I also think the emotional one is real: this is where Londo realises he has become fond of Vir, that he doesn‘t want to lose him.

Mind you, as Hobsonphile back in the day pointed out, Londo‘s other big gesture for Vir is practically bound to misfire, because if Vir‘s family has been neglecting him to such a degree until now, then them being impressed by the newfound status isn‘t going to fix the underlying issue, the lack of love, and inviting them for a month won‘t make Vir happy. Yours truly wrote a story set shortly after this episode which deals with this and a great many other things, as it was inspired by the prompt „what does it mean to be a transsexual in Centauri society“, and let‘s just say that gave me an idea. No spoilers beyond this episode, so you can read it, Cahn.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/400891




And now for a word

The show has a few „outsider pov“ episodes, and sometimes they can be excrutiating (step forward, „View from the Gallery“ in s5), and sometimes they‘re good (also s5, The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father). And now for a word, which sticks to the „ISN Special about B5“ format, complete with creepy and hilarious Psi Corps ad with sublimal message interruption, is by and large a good one. This time around, it struck me how very 1990s it is. ISN is very obviously modelled on 1990s CNN. Fox News did already exist, obviously, but this isn‘t anything like it (then or now). There are already hints of biased reporting (the Mars independence movement are described as terrorist and the next half of the sentence immediately tals about the „silent majority loyal to Earth“), and details such is Cynthia the main reporter pronouncing Ivanova‘s name wrong aren‘t a compliment to her reporting, but overall the portrait of the station and the situation is a fair one, given the information the ISN team has access to. It‘s obvious to not just the long time viewer, for example, that Londo is lying, but the audience is trusted to get this by the counter evidence shown, there‘s no off screen voiceover hammering this down. Londo and G‘Kar both get about the same screen time. Sheridan is given the opportunity to rebutt Annoying Senator‘s talking points. (And note that Sinclair‘s sometime ally, Senator Hideoshi, is no longer in the B5 comittee.) And no one is a creepy blonde in miniskirts or a foaming at the mouth ranter. Truly, another age. (At this point.)

We also get a lot of world building and character details - Delenn‘s description of Minbar, for example, the rough outline (and time table) of the Centauri Occupation of Narn, and G‘Kar‘s personal history and way to the resistance. Franklin‘s story about his classmate dying in space was something I had forgotten, and I found it a scene both moving and chilling.

I hadn‘t remembered we see the union worker from s1 in this episode again, which was lovely continuity.

Corwin blatantly lying about what a peaceful, pleasant work environment C-N-C is while Ivanova is lurking in the background cracked me up again, and is a good reminder that everyone lies in this episode, not just the obvious suspects.

One scene that strikes me differently each time I watch it is the one where Delenn gets interviewed. During my original viewing, I thought the reporter was being unfair and somewhat xenophobic towards Delenn. Years later, when I did my big DVD rewatch, Deborah_Judge had pointed out in an lj post not too long before I arrived at this episode that it was to her a very manipulative scene, because the narrative wants us to feel sorry for Delenn who only wants to bring human and Minbari together and indignant at the reporter who made her cry, but that the question the reporter asks is valid, and how would survivors of a war in human history that very nearly ended with a genocide feel if a representative of the former enemy suddenly seemed to adopt their identity because she felt like it. This made me reconsider the scene. On this rewatch, I‘ve reconsidered yet again in that Delenn‘s tears and handwringing are meant to make us feel for her (especially since they are a big contrast to her former self assurance), but they‘re also partially caused by a bit of her backstory we learn later, which made her so set on fulfilling the Prophecy, and which she can‘t possibly tell the reporter. (I mean, technically she could, but it wouldn‘t be Delenn-like at all.)

One more observation about the depiction of the media which is spoilery for the remaining show and later JMS installments, so, newbies beware.

This

Is

ISN

In general, JMS depicts journalists in a negative way, and I don‘t just mean the obvious propagandists of the Clark regime once the later has ditched democracy. There‘s also the annoying reporter pestering Sinclair in s1, and most unpleasantly the hapless reporter Sheridan makes throw up in „Lost Tales“ (a scene that made me
really dislike him while it lasted; however, then he practically adopted a Centauri instead of killing him, so I couldn‘t resent him anymore). Against this, we have the brief positive depictions of reporters as heroic in ISN just before the coup happens, and then a season later when Clark is dead - but these are only brief scenes. Cynthia the ISN journalist in this episode, by contrast, is in the middle; she‘s not depicted as heroic, and does have some bias, see above, but she also tried to paint a complete picture as best she can and gives everyone screentime - in short, she‘s a believable professional, not a boo-hiss figure or a joke.




The other episodes

Comments

[cahn]

As last week, I only managed to watch one ep but I think I should get caught up this week -- in time to go on vacation and possibly get right back off track again *facepalm*

So I have to confess I didn't enjoy watching this episode that much, though I thought it was a good episode. I didn't really enjoy Ashan's insults, or seeing the noose tightening around Sheridan's neck, or Ashan getting played (I've always sort of disliked the trope of murderer getting tricked into a confession -- purely a personal thing), and Sheridan's victory at the end seemed a bit hollow given all the pieces already set in motion (e.g., reactivation of already-simmering distrust from the other alien races, reiteration that the Minbari really don't like Sheridan). But! I did not see it coming that Lennier would be the one to karate chop the security guy, to give Ashan the chance to do the right thing. That part I really liked. And:

Also, it provides us with a cameo of Original Na‘Toth without alien make-up, i.e. Julie Caitlin Brown returns as Sheridan‘s lawyer, and my only regret about this is that she doesn‘t get to do much, let alone a nifty court scene.

What! Didn't realize that. She was great.

The Kosh subplot with Sheridan experiencing „beauty in the dark“ via hearing the Pakh‘ mara sing is oddly touching, and as ever, I get mushy once they start to sing. Though why they sound like a Gregorian monks choir remains another Vorlon mystery. :)

Yes! I really liked this too. I kept feeling like they were singing something like Latin though?? My mind kept trying to make Latin words out of it, anyway.

The B5 merchandise plot is pure comic relief, complete with a dig at the competition - „we‘re not just some kind of deep space franchise, this station is about something!“

I laughed at that line :D

(as a lot of episodes this season, including the next one, point out, the station needs all the money it can legally get)

I totally get a kick out of thinking that Sheridan got rid of the store that would have made up some of that shortfall because he was so offended by the teddy bear :D

(Was that whats-his-name the pilot who saw the teddy bear? I would never have thought about that being a recurring character if you hadn't mentioned him before. Lol.)

Mind you, as Hobsonphile back in the day pointed out, Londo‘s other big gesture for Vir is practically bound to misfire, because if Vir‘s family has been neglecting him to such a degree until now, then them being impressed by the newfound status isn‘t going to fix the underlying issue, the lack of love, and inviting them for a month won‘t make Vir happy.

I... did not get at all that this was supposed to be a favor for Vir and not Londo doing some kind of practical joke to his own benefit (on par with getting Garibaldi to pay for his drinks), though I couldn't figure out what that benefit was so I suppose I must be wrong about that. Vir doesn't seem very happy about it?

[selenak]

What! Didn't realize that. She was great.

:) Since I first saw that episode dubbed into German, I didn't realise it was the same actress, either, but I did once the first DVDs were released and I recognized the voice and checked the name. It's just a brief part, but you can tell there, too, the woman just has presence.

kept feeling like they were singing something like Latin though??

That's where I was going with the Gregorian monks comparison. It sounds like Latin to me, too, but I'm not 100% sure because you English speaking folk pronounce Latin differently than we Germans do, and definitely different from the Italians. (Last year I watched a German/Italian tv show about the battle of the Teutoburg Forest, and they actually had the (Italian) actors playing the Romans speak in Latin to each other. This was awesome.)

I totally get a kick out of thinking that Sheridan got rid of the store that would have made up some of that shortfall because he was so offended by the teddy bear :D

Teddy Bear backstory: supposedly this entire subplot started because Peter David's wife made that Teddy Bear for JMS and thought it was a cute gift. He was less than enthralled though he tried to cover it up. Presto, Peter David gets an idea.

Was that whats-his-name the pilot who saw the teddy bear?

I think so, yes. :) (Warren Keefer.)

Vir doesn't seem very happy about it?

Vir's not, and that's what inspired hobsonphile's comment back in the day. Now Londo got the job because no one wanted it and it was considered a joke, too, but he and Vir have different personalities (even leaving aside their attitudes towards Faustian bargains), so what Londo thinks would work for him ("show everyone how well I'm doing now!") cannot work for Vir. Also, while we only get a little bit about Londo's youth on the show, it gives one the impression he was loved, and he has the basic self confidence to go with it. Vir? Let me put it this way: when I read JMS' memoirs, I thought that the utter absence of love (other than from his cat, and his comic book heroes) that's there in addition to the abuse horror show is something that probably went into Vir's background. There's an absolutely fantastic Vir-and-Londo scene in s4 where Vir uses an incredibly telling phrase about what his hopes for his life were. I won't tell it to you because you need to watch that scene unspoiled, but everytime I remember that phrase, it breaks my heart for Vir all over again.

[cahn]

It sounds like Latin to me, too, but I'm not 100% sure because you English speaking folk pronounce Latin differently than we Germans do, and definitely different from the Italians.

Huh! So my primary exposure to Latin has been singing liturgical music, which I assume is pronounced at least vaguely similarly everywhere. But I know that's different from spoken Latin, though I didn't know that was different in different countries. Whatever they were saying didn't quite parse to me as church-music-Latin, though! Hmm. (And that TV show sounds really cool!)

Teddy Bear backstory: supposedly this entire subplot started because Peter David's wife made that Teddy Bear for JMS and thought it was a cute gift. He was less than enthralled though he tried to cover it up. Presto, Peter David gets an idea.

Lol, that's awesome!

OK, I watched "and now for a word" -- heh, I agree that it was very 90's and CNN :) I thought watching it that the episode was probably super cutting edge at the time, and now it seems a little... quaint, to think that people are getting their news from a single TV news source.

complete with creepy and hilarious Psi Corps ad with sublimal message interruption

I watched this the first time and noticed a blip, and it took a couple of seconds for the penny to drop because my brain was like "oh, sure, blips, that's normal for TV... WAIT, I'm not watching TV! I'm watching remastered episodes on an iPad!" and then I went back and rewound and saw it was a legit blip but was too lazy to couldn't get right to the actual frame and figure out what it said -- what does it say?

the Mars independence movement are described as terrorist and the next half of the sentence immediately tals about the „silent majority loyal to Earth“

I thought when this happened early on that this was going to be a terrible biased account of what was going on on the station, and was pleased when that turned out not to be the case (or at least not only the case).

and how would survivors of a war in human history that very nearly ended with a genocide feel if a representative of the former enemy suddenly seemed to adopt their identity because she felt like it.

Huh, that's a good point and not one that I realized while watching (I definitely leaned towards "unfair"). Although I was surprised by how emotional Delenn was about it. I sort of had her pegged as someone who was always analyzing situations -- but of course one can be like that and still sort of fall apart when things don't go as one expected.

[selenak]

But I know that's different from spoken Latin, though I didn't know that was different in different countries.

Very much so. To use one of the most simple examples: the name Caesar.

English: "See-sar"
German: "Za" - a like the a in the English word "frank", because ae is in modern German always pronounced as an Umlaut, ä - "sar". (I say modern German, because the very early medieval pronounciation was more like "Kaisar", which is of course where the German term for "Emperor" hails from.
Italian: Well, "Cesare" will do. No "eee" and no "ä" sound there, since Italian "e" sounds different from German "ä" and certainly not like English "eee".

For a more geeky explanation for about fifteen minutes , see this guy, who uses the beginning of Cicero's first speech against Catiline to demonstrate first the Ecclesiastical pronounciation of Latin (as opposed to the Classical one - the Ecclesiastical one = basically the Italian one), then the German and then the English one. He gets to the German version around 9.44, which is when he makes a good point you might be familiar with. If you've listened to a performance of Carl Orff's Carmina Burana by a German choir, that's German Latin. (For example: this Vienna flashmob. Now here is a one minute scene from the show I mentioned, where the Romans are played by Italian actors speaking Latin (and using Classical, not Ecclasiastical pronounciation, though still with an Italian flair), while the Germans are played by German actors. Dialogue subtitled in English, don't worry.

what does it say?

Trust the Corps!