Sandman Speculations
Feb. 23rd, 2023 10:18 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakSince we now know for certain there will be a second Sandman tv season, I can't help but speculate how that might work. Now both the tv and the audio adaption chose to use essentially two of the trade collections for one season - i.e. Preludes and Nocturnes plus The Doll's House for s1, with two of the Fables and Reflections stories for the bonus episode. So I think it's a safe bet s2 will follow the audio model and use two trade volumes for its second season, specifically Seasons of Mist and A Game of You, possibly with some more Fables and Reflections tales (they need to do at least Midsummer Night's Dream and Thermidor for greater continuity, though then again they might want to keep Thermidor for a Brief Lives centric third season together with Song of Orpheus in order to have all the Orpheus stories together).
Now, A Game of You has minimal Morpheus content - he basically just shows up in the finale with a tiny tiny cameo before that. I don't think this would be done on tv. So rather than devote the first half of the season to one storyarc and the second to the next, I suspect the tv version will run both storyarcs simultanously, which means we'll switch between a Seasons of Mist derived Morpheus storyline and the mostly Morpheus free Game of You events within the same episodes, mostly, and both will conclude in the finale.
Granted, that would mean Dream basically goes from saying goodye to Nada in the last episode to saying hello to Thessaly, but as his first meeting with Thessaly isn't exactly a falling in love scene, it's doable.
Now, Hob Gadling has a short appearance in Seasons of Mist, but he has become so popular that I wonder whether the tv series will extend that by giving him another character's role in the narrative so he can show up beyond a brief chat with Morpheus. The problem is, I can't see whose, because A Season of Mists mainly takes place in hell and the Dreaming and various mythological places. And you can't change that, especially if the Game of You stuff happens simultanously, without destroying the story, not to mention wreaking havoc with continuity.
Otoh, I could see Lyta Hall (and baby Daniel) added in the Game of You story arc (maybe she moved with Barbie to NY?), and Hal (trying or Broadway or cabaret success in NYC). Lyta because in the comics, Gaiman gave her cameos in most storyarcs to periodically remind readers of her and Daniel's existence , and this will be necessary for the tv version as well, there's no way she won't show up until it's time for The Kindly Ones. Hal because he's a popular character and it creates continuity with s1's human ensemble.
Of course, you could be even more radical and exchange Hazel and Foxglove for Lyta and Rose Walker, but I very much doubt that. Hazel and Foxglove might not be continuity relevant for the core Sandman storyarc, but as a lesbian couple which remains together through their ups and downs, and doesn't end up dead, they made not only an impression back in the day but in their survival and happy ending are an mportant counterweight in the present, given what happens to Wanda. So I think Hazel and Foxglove will remain.
Then there's the villain question. One of the greater narrative departures of the tv show was to include the Corinthian right from the start instead of letting him only show up in the Doll's House story arc, and to somewhat extend John Dee's role as well, and to let Desire imply at the end they had something to do with all of this, not just the Vortex/Rose Walker scheme. All of which provides an ongoing antagonist or several to heighten the suspense. With Seasons of Mist, a first time reader thinks Lucifer will be the main antagonist, and the big narrative twist then is that no, he's not. Granted, the shock of what Lucifer does instead won't be one today given the premise of the tv show Lucifer, little as that otherwise has to do with Gaiman's writing, but this is one of the things which can't be changed without destroying the story, so no, tv Lucifer won't be the main s2 antagonist, either. So here's my current theory: the role of the Demon Azazel will be beefed up a la Corinthian in s2, so that he not only is the main antagonist in the Seasons of Mist part of the story but will also be behind the Game of You events, maybe via sponsoring/aiding the Cuckoo. Alternatively, you could make Desire be the one behind the Cuckoo, but the problem there is that this would be another direct meddling in their siblings' realm, which Dream has said he would not tolerate and would take to the rest of the family in the previous season finale, and since he can't do that continuity wise, it would just make for a big anticlimax.
What will survive 1:1: the great first (on screen/page) dysfunctional family meeting of the Endless at the start of Seasons of Mist. Do we have news who'll play Delirium and Destiny? And speaking of casting, the audios have David Tennant as Loki, which works surprisingly well, and which I could see working on screen, too, but I susppose it would be regarded as too distracting. And there's no shortage of tall thin actors who can don an orange wig. I am looking forward to a Loki who is absolutely Marvel free and based on actual Norse mythology. (While the American Gods tv show turned ultimately into a messy let down, it would be neat to have Ian MacShane play Odin; it's not a big role, but he has two good and important scenes in that arc.)
What will most likely be cut out: the entire Charles Rowland school story. I mean, it's creepy, it's effective, but it's also the easiest to cut. You then need something else to show how the emptying of hell messes up the mortal world, but that, come to think of it, could be where tv! Hob Gadling gets something to do when he suddenly keeps running into former foes and friends who are supposed to be dead. And it could be done in an episode which tells the Midsummer Night's story in flashbacks. Something that cracks me up is that tv fanfiction writers seem to have decided Hob hates on Shakespeare, based on nothing but his expression when Dream interrupts their Elizabethan era get together to talk to young Will. I very much doubt the tv version will go with that, but they could write Hob into the Midsummer Night's Dream story - yes, he's a rich lord in the Elizabethan era, but maybe he is in a mood to go undercover as an actor for a few weeks.
Lastly: something else very particular to Sandman tv series inspired fanfiction is exporing the long term effects Dream's captivity has on him, and use it for hurt/comfort story material. While s1 did establish in the brief dialogue scene between Dream, Nada and Matthew that Dream is responsible for Nada''s imprisonment in hell, I don't think that's really sunk in yet for tv only people. In Seasons of Mist, however, the fact that he condemned her for millennia of torment in a cell, way, way worse than anything Roderick Burgess ever did to him, is a primary focus and motivation for all that happens, so I wonder whether this will lead a cessation of "Dream must be comforted about his years of imprisonment" fanfic. Incidentally, since s1 cut out the Dream/Nada backstory from the Doll's House material, I suspect that particular flashback will be put right at the start of s2, since, again, it, Desire using it to get under Morpheus' skin by pointing out how he acted at the family meal and Death then stunning Dream by agreeing with Desire are Morpheus' primary motivation throughout that story arc.
Now, A Game of You has minimal Morpheus content - he basically just shows up in the finale with a tiny tiny cameo before that. I don't think this would be done on tv. So rather than devote the first half of the season to one storyarc and the second to the next, I suspect the tv version will run both storyarcs simultanously, which means we'll switch between a Seasons of Mist derived Morpheus storyline and the mostly Morpheus free Game of You events within the same episodes, mostly, and both will conclude in the finale.
Granted, that would mean Dream basically goes from saying goodye to Nada in the last episode to saying hello to Thessaly, but as his first meeting with Thessaly isn't exactly a falling in love scene, it's doable.
Now, Hob Gadling has a short appearance in Seasons of Mist, but he has become so popular that I wonder whether the tv series will extend that by giving him another character's role in the narrative so he can show up beyond a brief chat with Morpheus. The problem is, I can't see whose, because A Season of Mists mainly takes place in hell and the Dreaming and various mythological places. And you can't change that, especially if the Game of You stuff happens simultanously, without destroying the story, not to mention wreaking havoc with continuity.
Otoh, I could see Lyta Hall (and baby Daniel) added in the Game of You story arc (maybe she moved with Barbie to NY?), and Hal (trying or Broadway or cabaret success in NYC). Lyta because in the comics, Gaiman gave her cameos in most storyarcs to periodically remind readers of her and Daniel's existence , and this will be necessary for the tv version as well, there's no way she won't show up until it's time for The Kindly Ones. Hal because he's a popular character and it creates continuity with s1's human ensemble.
Of course, you could be even more radical and exchange Hazel and Foxglove for Lyta and Rose Walker, but I very much doubt that. Hazel and Foxglove might not be continuity relevant for the core Sandman storyarc, but as a lesbian couple which remains together through their ups and downs, and doesn't end up dead, they made not only an impression back in the day but in their survival and happy ending are an mportant counterweight in the present, given what happens to Wanda. So I think Hazel and Foxglove will remain.
Then there's the villain question. One of the greater narrative departures of the tv show was to include the Corinthian right from the start instead of letting him only show up in the Doll's House story arc, and to somewhat extend John Dee's role as well, and to let Desire imply at the end they had something to do with all of this, not just the Vortex/Rose Walker scheme. All of which provides an ongoing antagonist or several to heighten the suspense. With Seasons of Mist, a first time reader thinks Lucifer will be the main antagonist, and the big narrative twist then is that no, he's not. Granted, the shock of what Lucifer does instead won't be one today given the premise of the tv show Lucifer, little as that otherwise has to do with Gaiman's writing, but this is one of the things which can't be changed without destroying the story, so no, tv Lucifer won't be the main s2 antagonist, either. So here's my current theory: the role of the Demon Azazel will be beefed up a la Corinthian in s2, so that he not only is the main antagonist in the Seasons of Mist part of the story but will also be behind the Game of You events, maybe via sponsoring/aiding the Cuckoo. Alternatively, you could make Desire be the one behind the Cuckoo, but the problem there is that this would be another direct meddling in their siblings' realm, which Dream has said he would not tolerate and would take to the rest of the family in the previous season finale, and since he can't do that continuity wise, it would just make for a big anticlimax.
What will survive 1:1: the great first (on screen/page) dysfunctional family meeting of the Endless at the start of Seasons of Mist. Do we have news who'll play Delirium and Destiny? And speaking of casting, the audios have David Tennant as Loki, which works surprisingly well, and which I could see working on screen, too, but I susppose it would be regarded as too distracting. And there's no shortage of tall thin actors who can don an orange wig. I am looking forward to a Loki who is absolutely Marvel free and based on actual Norse mythology. (While the American Gods tv show turned ultimately into a messy let down, it would be neat to have Ian MacShane play Odin; it's not a big role, but he has two good and important scenes in that arc.)
What will most likely be cut out: the entire Charles Rowland school story. I mean, it's creepy, it's effective, but it's also the easiest to cut. You then need something else to show how the emptying of hell messes up the mortal world, but that, come to think of it, could be where tv! Hob Gadling gets something to do when he suddenly keeps running into former foes and friends who are supposed to be dead. And it could be done in an episode which tells the Midsummer Night's story in flashbacks. Something that cracks me up is that tv fanfiction writers seem to have decided Hob hates on Shakespeare, based on nothing but his expression when Dream interrupts their Elizabethan era get together to talk to young Will. I very much doubt the tv version will go with that, but they could write Hob into the Midsummer Night's Dream story - yes, he's a rich lord in the Elizabethan era, but maybe he is in a mood to go undercover as an actor for a few weeks.
Lastly: something else very particular to Sandman tv series inspired fanfiction is exporing the long term effects Dream's captivity has on him, and use it for hurt/comfort story material. While s1 did establish in the brief dialogue scene between Dream, Nada and Matthew that Dream is responsible for Nada''s imprisonment in hell, I don't think that's really sunk in yet for tv only people. In Seasons of Mist, however, the fact that he condemned her for millennia of torment in a cell, way, way worse than anything Roderick Burgess ever did to him, is a primary focus and motivation for all that happens, so I wonder whether this will lead a cessation of "Dream must be comforted about his years of imprisonment" fanfic. Incidentally, since s1 cut out the Dream/Nada backstory from the Doll's House material, I suspect that particular flashback will be put right at the start of s2, since, again, it, Desire using it to get under Morpheus' skin by pointing out how he acted at the family meal and Death then stunning Dream by agreeing with Desire are Morpheus' primary motivation throughout that story arc.
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Date: 2023-02-23 01:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-02-23 03:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-02-23 03:46 pm (UTC)I would LOVE seeing Hob doing Shakespeare, because his actor is very fine...maybe they could work in a cameo from his dad?
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Date: 2023-02-23 03:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-02-23 04:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-02-23 07:16 pm (UTC)Your thoughts are good thoughts! I haven't heard about casting for Delirium or Destiny yet, but they did really well with Death, Desire, and Dream, so I have high hopes!
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Date: 2023-02-23 08:12 pm (UTC)Foxglove/Donna canonically knows Rose through the ill-fated Judy, so they could have kept in touch, and I could see her looking Rose up once Weird Things Happen. If Desire is the villain this time (via Nada and Alianora and Thessaly), they'd definitely keep on the side of the human realm, setting up their chess pieces while Dream is busy.
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Date: 2023-02-24 11:06 am (UTC)Good point, and certainly Thermidor works as a standalone episode the same way, or coupled with A Midsummer Night's Dream the same way they put "Dream of 1000 Cats" and "Calliope" together.
If Desire is the villain this time (via Nada and Alianora and Thessaly), they'd definitely keep on the side of the human realm, setting up their chess pieces while Dream is busy.
Yes except for Thessaly, unless the tv show makes a major departure from comics canon, where Desire swore one of those unbreakable oaths on having nothing to do with that particular affair. ("You managed to screw that up all on your own.") I mean, of course they could change that for the tv show, but I am somewhat attached to the idea that Dream's love life is a trainwreck because of who he is, not simply because Desire keeps messing with him.
Otoh, it's canon that Desire did contribute to the Nada affair, and s1 already had them mention this to Despair, so when and if s2 does the entire affair as a flashback, this definitely will be mentioned as well. Alienora's story is from one of the supplementals, isn't it? Because I only recall the brief cameo at the end of A Game of You, and then something in Sandman: Overture?