Ahsoka 1.07 + 1.08
Oct. 4th, 2023 10:59 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakWell, that was anticlimactic. Some good scenes, some satisfying character stuff, but by and large the last two eps and the series overall had too much set up and too little pay off. Yes, I've heard Filoni wants to do a movie bringing the storylines of this and The Mandalorian together, but still.
And no, my problem wasn't that Thrawn made it back to the galaxy. That was evident from the start (which is a problem by itself to put on your show: everyone knows from the get go your heroes won't achieve the main goal they've set themselves), because introducing Thrawn in live action in the first place would have been pointless if he was going to be stuck in a galaxy far, far away from that one. The show's way for compensating was that while Thrawn is back, a number of personal wins have been achieved for our heroes - Ahsoka has come to terms with her past and herself and now can have a much better Master/Padawan relationship wiht Sabine, Sabine managed to save Ezra (at a terrible price and that this isn't really addressed is one of my problems, but she did) and can now access the Force and has come to terms with Ahsoka, and everyone was able to save the Noti from ending up as imperial cannon fodder. However, quite aside from the Thrawn return the show didn't deliver pay off for the original characters it created, to wit, Baylan and Shin. And because Ray Stevenson has died, we'll never find out what Baylan's plan was, what he really wanted. (Unless they recast him, which SW is traditionally very reluctant to do.) To make a comparison to the most successful and ambitious of the Disney SW shows so far, Andor, while Andor's first season does have open endings for several characters, and a pretermined fate for its main character (Cassian) which was even clearer form the get go than Thrawn's return by virtue of Rogue One, there's still a clear narrative arc throughout, both for the story as a whole and for the individual characters, that comes to a climax in the finale. This is true for both the heroes and the villains. Whereas Ahsoka the series has this kind of development, in a satisfying way, only for the title character. Sabine, the other most important character, makes a really fateful decision, arguably the one around which the season revolves, and while she and Ahsoka talk about it afterwards and Ahsoka being there for her works for Ahsoka's story especially in the context of Ahsoka's Anakin backstory, by NOT letting Ezra find out the truth, and/or letting Sabine be confronted by another character about the fact she made the entire galaxy (potentially) pay the price for saving Ezra, the show robbed itself of an earned emotional climax. Ahsoka's acceptance of Sabine would feel much more narratively rewarding in terms of Sabine's story if Sabine before that had to deal with someone (doesn't have to be Ezra but as he's there...)confronting her with all the people who'll pay the price for that decision.
Baylan is one of the most interesting new creations of the Disney SWverse, he was well introduced, well acted, and that's why I feel so frustrated about his story feeling forever hanging in the air. Yes, no one could have known about the tragedy of Ray Stevenson suddenly dying, but even with the expectation of him being around for years to come, they could have given Baylan's s1 story some pay off; him letting Shin go (something Sith never do - they occasionally destroy their apprentices, but they don't let them go do their own thing) wasn't nearly enough, and there should have been at least some explanation about what he actually thought he would get from his alliance with Morgan Elsbeth and on that planet since what he didn't want was the actual continuation of the Empire/Republic cycle. Speaking of Elsbeth, her getting a witch sword to fight Ahsoka with and be defeated and killed does not an emotional climax make, either.
So what did I like? As per usual. Ahsoka still having the training hologramm Anakin made for her was something in the three Rebels eps I watched had already established, but seeing her playing it again here in preparation for what was to come was very touching and in line with Ahsoka having to come to terms with the past, see above, and taking good lessons from it instead of letting the sense of guilt trap her. (Which is why Thrawn's Vader taunt in the finale utterly fails as a mind game, she's been there, done that.) One of those lessons being that the affection between her and Anakin wasn't part of the wrongness; Ahsoka's decision to stand by Sabine and being there for her, in terms of Ahsoka's (not Sabine's) story, is a satisfying pay off of her taking the good of her past and using it to change the future instead of retreating into a stoic shell as she'd been at the start of the show. The hug with Ezra was lovely as well (didn't she see him the last time when he'd saved her life?), the interaction with Huyang (best droid ever!) continued to charm me, and I loved getting what I'd hoped for - the mirror of Luke's ending in Return of the Jedi by Force Ghost!Anakin watching Ahsoka and Sabine. (I also liked the differences as well as the parallels in terms of the staging. We're firmly in Luke's pov in RotJ until Leia pulls him from the ghosts of the past to the celebration of the living. Here, we start with Sabine sensing something but not knowing what, then move to Ahsoka who does what Luke does in that scene, including the body posture, but we don't yet see what she sees until she and Sabine turn to get one with the business of living, and then the camera reveals Anakin watching his Padawan (and her Padawan). (This time definitely ForceGhost Anakin, complete with flue flickering outline. Confirming, btw, he's around beyond the ending of RotS. My own headcanon has been that because there's so much to atone for on both the personal and the big level, he decided to stay and try to help where he can, but that doesn't always work; Leia doesn't want to talk to him for obvious reasons, and Ben/Kylo later isn't able to see him in the first place because he's only expecting Vader or rather his own image of Vader.) It's among other things also a subtle but important change to SW lore; Anakin's legacy isn't "just" his bloodline plus his crimes as Vader and killing of Palpatine, it's also Ahsoka and now through her a continuing alternate Jedi lineage.
All in all, though, I'd say this series' high point was the middle, first the episode where Sabine makes her decision to hand Baylan the device, then the Ahsoka-and-Anakin episode on the one hand and the immediately following episode or rather the scenes involving Sabine, Baylan and Shin. All the "New Republic bureaucracy obstructing our heroes" scenes with Hera didn't really do it for me, not even the Threepio cameo (though it was good to give him one scene where he's not the butt of jokes) with Leia's message, and I'm just not into Thrawn, sorry. In terms of Disney SW shows, I think it's not only not up there with Andor but also not as narratively well done and satisfiyng as The Mandalorian, season 1. It's better than The Book of Boba Fett, but otherwise around the middle of flawed with some good and bad like the later Mandalorian seasons plus the Obi-Wan miniseries, with my heart giving the advantage to Ahsoka if only because the Obi-Wan miniseries fell even deeper into the narrative trap it set itself by its premise. (To wit: engineering a meeting between Obi-Wan and Vader when we know that nothing major can come of it; both have to survive it because of A New Hope, Vader/Anakin can learn nothing because of how he starts the OT, and while Obi-Wan getting over his guilt and concluding that Anakin is really dead fits with his own start of the OT, this does not make the meeting worth while.) In conclusion: this isn't a series I'll rewatch in its entirely, but individual eps and/or scenes, absolutely.
And no, my problem wasn't that Thrawn made it back to the galaxy. That was evident from the start (which is a problem by itself to put on your show: everyone knows from the get go your heroes won't achieve the main goal they've set themselves), because introducing Thrawn in live action in the first place would have been pointless if he was going to be stuck in a galaxy far, far away from that one. The show's way for compensating was that while Thrawn is back, a number of personal wins have been achieved for our heroes - Ahsoka has come to terms with her past and herself and now can have a much better Master/Padawan relationship wiht Sabine, Sabine managed to save Ezra (at a terrible price and that this isn't really addressed is one of my problems, but she did) and can now access the Force and has come to terms with Ahsoka, and everyone was able to save the Noti from ending up as imperial cannon fodder. However, quite aside from the Thrawn return the show didn't deliver pay off for the original characters it created, to wit, Baylan and Shin. And because Ray Stevenson has died, we'll never find out what Baylan's plan was, what he really wanted. (Unless they recast him, which SW is traditionally very reluctant to do.) To make a comparison to the most successful and ambitious of the Disney SW shows so far, Andor, while Andor's first season does have open endings for several characters, and a pretermined fate for its main character (Cassian) which was even clearer form the get go than Thrawn's return by virtue of Rogue One, there's still a clear narrative arc throughout, both for the story as a whole and for the individual characters, that comes to a climax in the finale. This is true for both the heroes and the villains. Whereas Ahsoka the series has this kind of development, in a satisfying way, only for the title character. Sabine, the other most important character, makes a really fateful decision, arguably the one around which the season revolves, and while she and Ahsoka talk about it afterwards and Ahsoka being there for her works for Ahsoka's story especially in the context of Ahsoka's Anakin backstory, by NOT letting Ezra find out the truth, and/or letting Sabine be confronted by another character about the fact she made the entire galaxy (potentially) pay the price for saving Ezra, the show robbed itself of an earned emotional climax. Ahsoka's acceptance of Sabine would feel much more narratively rewarding in terms of Sabine's story if Sabine before that had to deal with someone (doesn't have to be Ezra but as he's there...)confronting her with all the people who'll pay the price for that decision.
Baylan is one of the most interesting new creations of the Disney SWverse, he was well introduced, well acted, and that's why I feel so frustrated about his story feeling forever hanging in the air. Yes, no one could have known about the tragedy of Ray Stevenson suddenly dying, but even with the expectation of him being around for years to come, they could have given Baylan's s1 story some pay off; him letting Shin go (something Sith never do - they occasionally destroy their apprentices, but they don't let them go do their own thing) wasn't nearly enough, and there should have been at least some explanation about what he actually thought he would get from his alliance with Morgan Elsbeth and on that planet since what he didn't want was the actual continuation of the Empire/Republic cycle. Speaking of Elsbeth, her getting a witch sword to fight Ahsoka with and be defeated and killed does not an emotional climax make, either.
So what did I like? As per usual. Ahsoka still having the training hologramm Anakin made for her was something in the three Rebels eps I watched had already established, but seeing her playing it again here in preparation for what was to come was very touching and in line with Ahsoka having to come to terms with the past, see above, and taking good lessons from it instead of letting the sense of guilt trap her. (Which is why Thrawn's Vader taunt in the finale utterly fails as a mind game, she's been there, done that.) One of those lessons being that the affection between her and Anakin wasn't part of the wrongness; Ahsoka's decision to stand by Sabine and being there for her, in terms of Ahsoka's (not Sabine's) story, is a satisfying pay off of her taking the good of her past and using it to change the future instead of retreating into a stoic shell as she'd been at the start of the show. The hug with Ezra was lovely as well (didn't she see him the last time when he'd saved her life?), the interaction with Huyang (best droid ever!) continued to charm me, and I loved getting what I'd hoped for - the mirror of Luke's ending in Return of the Jedi by Force Ghost!Anakin watching Ahsoka and Sabine. (I also liked the differences as well as the parallels in terms of the staging. We're firmly in Luke's pov in RotJ until Leia pulls him from the ghosts of the past to the celebration of the living. Here, we start with Sabine sensing something but not knowing what, then move to Ahsoka who does what Luke does in that scene, including the body posture, but we don't yet see what she sees until she and Sabine turn to get one with the business of living, and then the camera reveals Anakin watching his Padawan (and her Padawan). (This time definitely ForceGhost Anakin, complete with flue flickering outline. Confirming, btw, he's around beyond the ending of RotS. My own headcanon has been that because there's so much to atone for on both the personal and the big level, he decided to stay and try to help where he can, but that doesn't always work; Leia doesn't want to talk to him for obvious reasons, and Ben/Kylo later isn't able to see him in the first place because he's only expecting Vader or rather his own image of Vader.) It's among other things also a subtle but important change to SW lore; Anakin's legacy isn't "just" his bloodline plus his crimes as Vader and killing of Palpatine, it's also Ahsoka and now through her a continuing alternate Jedi lineage.
All in all, though, I'd say this series' high point was the middle, first the episode where Sabine makes her decision to hand Baylan the device, then the Ahsoka-and-Anakin episode on the one hand and the immediately following episode or rather the scenes involving Sabine, Baylan and Shin. All the "New Republic bureaucracy obstructing our heroes" scenes with Hera didn't really do it for me, not even the Threepio cameo (though it was good to give him one scene where he's not the butt of jokes) with Leia's message, and I'm just not into Thrawn, sorry. In terms of Disney SW shows, I think it's not only not up there with Andor but also not as narratively well done and satisfiyng as The Mandalorian, season 1. It's better than The Book of Boba Fett, but otherwise around the middle of flawed with some good and bad like the later Mandalorian seasons plus the Obi-Wan miniseries, with my heart giving the advantage to Ahsoka if only because the Obi-Wan miniseries fell even deeper into the narrative trap it set itself by its premise. (To wit: engineering a meeting between Obi-Wan and Vader when we know that nothing major can come of it; both have to survive it because of A New Hope, Vader/Anakin can learn nothing because of how he starts the OT, and while Obi-Wan getting over his guilt and concluding that Anakin is really dead fits with his own start of the OT, this does not make the meeting worth while.) In conclusion: this isn't a series I'll rewatch in its entirely, but individual eps and/or scenes, absolutely.
no subject
Date: 2023-10-04 08:42 pm (UTC)I've said before about being a dummy about character stuff so I feel like what was there was too subtle? Or I didn't get it. Ahsoka is a bit nice and more forgiving of Sabine at the end but it's not a huge arc. (This seems to be something you can get more if you know Ahsoka from previous shows, which is fair enough.)
Sabine has focus but no arc, she never has to confront what she did and the narrative suggests she was right along to prioritise her friend over the greater good. Which has been harmed. Thrawn has been released the heroes have lost Ahsoka, Sabine and Huyang and gained... Ezra. Who didn't exactly impress the last two episodes.
Baylan and Shin, I don't thing anythink suggested they were on different paths until they went different ways? Ray Stevenson sells via... sheer presence but doesn't do much and his goal is annoyingly meta to me. He has potential but presumably they will have to abandon or recast. He's not a big OT star they probably will recast if needed.
I think you're absolutely right about Thrawn's taunt, as it was Baylan already said it and she already confronted it with her vision quest (not that it seemed to bother her beforehand) and she had no means of response. If they wanted to show growth either have her respond she's not her master and win by doing something unexpected or respond she's like her master and that's a good thing... and win by doing something outrageously Anakin-like as it is, it means nothing except Ahsoka was nonplussed.
Sorry most of this stuff isn't what you were talking about, lol. Just venting a little here. It's another show I wanted to like a lot more than I ultimately did.
no subject
Date: 2023-10-04 11:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-10-04 11:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-10-05 08:43 am (UTC)Considering what was good about it, I think it:
- either should have been a movie instead of a miniseries (ditch the entire “New Republic won’t acknowledge the truth” scenes and Hera, focus on Ahsoka’s relationship with Sabine and her Anakin and guilt issues, and pick either Baylan or Morgan Elsbeth but not both as the antagonist who engineers the journey across the galaxies to Thrawn, then give which one of the two you pick a better pay off and resolution at the end.
- or should have picked a different story to tell - I mean, keep Ahsoka having to come to terms with her child soldier past and her sense of guilt and feels re: Anakin/Vader by all means, but this could be told in a story immediately set after Return of the Jedi, for example, and didn’t need all the Rebels characters. Why not make it an Ahsoka and Rex story, for example (Temura M. Is the right age for old!Rex), with the two of them getting some MacGuffin task to do - how about finding any other surviving original clones, and while they can help some, one of them tries to cope with the enormity of the horror of having free will again and remembering everything he’s been forced to do by going beserk and they have to both defeat him and save hi? - that serves as the outer plot while emotionally they do the coming to terms thing? (I mean, I would also love a “how Ahsoka meets Luke and Leia” story but I knew Disney wouldn’t do it from the get go)
But as it is, we got something that feels like a big Marvel crossover event - Lightofdaye is right about that - with pay off for stories half the audience isn’t familiar with and lots of set up for stories that will be told elsewhere and no real sense of complete story in what the series does tell.
no subject
Date: 2023-10-06 06:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-10-04 11:39 pm (UTC)I did really like Ahsoka, Sabine, Ezra, and David Tennant as the droid, and Shin!, and it was neat to see the actor get some resolution as Anakin and have a good place in the SW verse. I'd be really interested in seeing some fic this show (altho it doesn't seem that popular? idk?).
Baby warrior Ahsoka was heartbreaking. That young actress was really good.
no subject
Date: 2023-10-05 09:03 am (UTC)Speaking of actors, word on what you said about Hayden Christensen’s return as Anakin and the fandom’s reception. (Now I hope someone will write a good story for Rose from the sequels because grrrr, argh to both how the fans behaved towards the actress and what Rise of Skywalker did to the character.)
Fanfic: so far, most of it seems to be Shin/Sabine. Which based on the first three episodes I can sort of see, and they’re now stuck on the same planet, but it’s not something I’m wildly interested in reeding. There was one story which had the to more more intriguing combination of Huyang the droid and Baylan running into each other. Huyang of course would remember Youngling!Baylan, as he renembers all the Jedi whom he has taught to build their first light sabers when they were teens. Huyang in general strikes me as a character with so much potential for fanfic - for example, how did he survive the Jedi Purge and prevent that Palpatine ever got his hands on him? When and how did he reunite with Ahsoka? Did he ever come across Obi-Wan during those 20 years of Obi-Wan’s exile? He just might be the oldest sentient being in the galaxy we’ve met so far.
no subject
Date: 2023-10-05 04:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-10-06 01:31 am (UTC)Like you said, obviously they want to get Thrawn into the main galaxy but I feel like there would have been ways to accomplish that without making Sabine so hard to root for.
no subject
Date: 2023-10-06 09:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-10-06 05:31 pm (UTC)And yeah, Spock is totally different b/c the immediate threat he sacrificed himself for was gone.