A movie, a vid

[selenak]

Saltburn: Can't help but assume the pitch for this was "What about a Brideshead Revisited/The Talented Mr. Ripley fusion? As in, Sebastian doesn't bring home Charles Ryder, he brings Tom Ripley, this all takes place near present day, and no one is Catholic!" The cast is great (and gorgeous to look at), though given the last thing I've seen Rosamond Pike in was The Wheel of Time, and most roles I've seen her in have her being the smartest person in most rooms (whether as a villain or a heroine), seeing her as Lady Elsbeth was quite the switch. The biggest difference to its various predecessors is probably this film eshews subtext and goes for main text right along, and also there are fare more bodily fluids of all kinds involved than in anything written by Waugh or Highsmith. (I'm a Farscape veteran, though. You can't scare me, Emerald Fennell!) Oh, and it's noticable that despite the female characters being played by beautiful actresses, it's the men whom the camera positions as objects of desire and objectivies. A lot.

In conclusion, I thoroughly enjoyed watching, but I don't think I'll do again, because this is also the kind of story where everyone is awful, and I can enjoy that if it's so well done, but it doesn't hook me for repeats. To be fair: On the scale of Sebastian Flyte to Dickie Greenleaf in the category of golden boys and objects of homoerotic desire, Felix is while not as sympathetic as Sebastian way more sympathetic than Dickie. And while both film adaptions of the first Ripley novel - the one with young Alain Delon as Tom from the 1960s and the one by Minghella with Matt Damon doing the honors - feeling the need to add some sort of punishment - in the former, the film ends with the boat and Dickie's body being found, in the later, he does get away with it but has to kill Petr, i.e. the one person wo loves him as Tom - instead of letting him get away scot free the way Highsmith does in the novel, Saltburn does give Oliver a completely consequence free victory. But it still feels like all tlhe characters are puppets in a very clever and gorgeous puppet play, not emotionally real to me. Hence no rewatch intended.

Sense 8: A new and delightful Lito/Dani/Hernando vid.

Comments

[likeadeuce]

One thing Saltburn discourse has convinced me is that I need to read Brideshead Revisited as it's clearly a template that every "posh golden boy venerated by less privileged friend" story that I have a weakness for is working from.

[shadowkat]

If you can find it? The 1981 mini-series is rather good and works as well. Jeremy Irons and Anthony Andrews were in it - and it kind of rocketed both to stardom.

[likeadeuce]

I have seen pieces of the show -- how I recognized the teddy bear in Saltburn as a reference -- but I'll give the whole thing a shot at some point.

[shadowkat]

I don't think I watched all of it either, just portions. It was in 1981, and I was around 14 or thereabouts. I watched episodes with my parents who loved it, but it didn't really hold my attention back then that much.

Brideshead Revisited

[selenak]

The book is worth reading, the tv show from the 80s worth watching, but in all fairness to what attracts you, I should tell you that Sebastian (the golden boy) is only around for half the story, and that his sister Julia plays a far more important role in the narrative than Felix' sister Venetia. As Shadowkat says below, the tv show shot young Anthony Andrews (Sebastian, the golden boy) and Jeremy Irons (Charles, the middle class guy longing not just for the boy but the house, the lifestyle and the family - though he doesn't kill anyone, this is why I said "Tom Ripley instead of Charles") into stardom. Director Michael Lindsay-Hogg has a great story dealing with the fact that Irons originally was cast as Sebastian and then the producers changed their minds:

"Well, how are things going, the casting?" Jeremy asked, eager to catch up.
"The casting. That's a good question," I said, having been offered the opening. "Look, um, Derek and I have been thinking."
"That's always a good thing," said Jeremy, teasing.
"Charles," Derek said, jumping right in.
"Charles? How do you mean?"
"For you."
"Oh."
Jeremy was silent for a moment and then said, "I'm very happy with Sebastian. I've been thinking about him a lot."
I wondered if he'd bought the new coat to wear as a part of his costume.
Jeremy took a sip of tea.
Jeremy was, and is, a smart actor and realized that Sebastian, with his glamour and his sadness, his golden youth coming to a sodden end, was a gift. (Look at what he later did in his Oscar-winning performance as oddball did-he-or-didn't-he-poison-his-wife Claus von Bülow.)
Our card was on the table, put down with little warning. Jeremy mentally considered his hand and knew it to be a good one. Was there to be any other enticement?
"I think I'd like to stick with Sebastian," he said.
"Ah-ha," I said. "There is something we haven't told you yet."
"Which is what?"
"The voice-over. Charles's voice-over," said Derek. "We're putting it all back. So we'll see it all through his eyes. Your eyes."
"That's an interesting idea," Jeremy said. "Do you think it'll work? All those words, all that 'thinking'?"
"If you're saying it, why wouldn't it?" I asked.

Lesson to be learned: if you want to persuade a young ambitious actor to accept the lesser role, offer him a long voice over to compensate. (And of course Jeremy Irons had and has one of the best voices in the business.)

There's also a more recent movie version, starring Ben Wishaw as Sebastian, Matthew Goode as Charles, Haley Atwell as Julia and Emma Thompson as Sebastian's mother, Lady Marchmain. It's well made but despite the stellar cast doesn't have that undefinable something special the tvs series did.

Re: Brideshead Revisited

[likeadeuce]

I like your point about the film being a Brideshead/Ripley remix. I've seen criticisms that she's just ripping off 2 existing stories, but the point about deliberately mashing 2 different things together speaks to the creativity at work.

I don't really think Saltburn is a great movie, like you say the characters aren't allowed to be too deep or real, but I do find the way the different tropes intersect pretty delightful.

(Also, you know me and men in good shirts).

Re: Brideshead Revisited

[selenak]

Good shirts are there aplenty in the tv show, I promise. (The movie as well, of course.)


I've seen criticisms that she's just ripping off 2 existing stories, but the point about deliberately mashing 2 different things together speaks to the creativity at work

Oh, I absolutely see it as creative, and very similar to what fanfiction does when doing fusions instead of crossover. (Yours truly tried for example in that long ago Heroes fanfic which used the concept of the Runaways comics - young mutants discovering their parents are all supervillains and going on the run.)

Re: Brideshead Revisited

[shadowkat]

I'm having troubles seeing anyone but Andrews as Sebastian - even though I didn't watch all of it (I was 13 or 14 at the time). Actually I think I saw everything with Sebastian. I got bored with Julia took over. Who played Julia in the original (looks it up)..ah Diana Quick. It didn't rise her to stardom, just Irons and Andrews. And I think, ironically, Irons did far better than Andrews career wise in part due to that amazing voice, even though he had the lesser role. I can't see Irons as Sebastian, but he probably could have pulled it off.

I may have to catch the movie at some point. I rather like Mathew Goode.

[shadowkat]

I had the same reaction - except I think you liked it slightly better than I did. Of the Ripley films, I think the one with Alain Delon remains my favorite. And Sebastian is definitely more likable and attractive than Dickie or Felix.

It's hard film to watch - because the characters aren't likable or interesting.(I don't tend to care if the characters are likable, but they do need to be interesting to hold my attention and be compelling.) Here, they are all a bit flat? I had similar issues with Triangle of Sadness and The Menu (which are also dark satires, albeit not as subtle, with rather flat and at times stereotypical characters). Also with White Lotus S2 (which felt a bit like a Highsmith satire as well).

[msilverstar]

I thought it was gorgeous and Rosamund Pike was fabulous but they were all such truly terrible characters that I just didn't want them in my brain very long.

[lynnenne]

they were all such truly terrible characters that I just didn't want them in my brain very long.

Hahahaha, so true! I just watched it last night and I’ve been trying to exorcise Oliver ever since.

[lynnenne]

But it still feels like all tlhe characters are puppets in a very clever and gorgeous puppet play, not emotionally real to me.

Same! When they showed the dancing puppets inside the glass case I kind of groaned a bit internally because it was so on-the-nose.