Now you see it, now you don't: Confessions of a part-time slasher

[selenak]

In my experience, there are roughly three types of fans where slash is concerned: those who see it everywhere, those who don't see it at all, no way, never, and those who see it in some relationships but not in others. Count me in the last group. What I wonder, though: how does one's subconscious or not so subconscious make the selections?
The first time I did see it was in Star Trek. No, not Kirk/Spock. I thought there was a certain frisson between Picard and Q in TNG, and in the case of Garak and Bashir in DS9, was sure Garak at least was in love or lust and Bashir was mightily intrigued. The episode "The Wire" settled it for me.
The next fandom which had me thinking slashy thoughts was Highlander; both Duncan/Methos and Methos/Kronos quickly became favourites. However, HL also brought me my first "huh?" experience, when I found out good old Methos also got slashed with Richie, whom he had about five minutes of screentime with in the entire series and during that time treated with sublime indifference. And then there were Duncan/Richie stories (double that "huh?!?" for father-son relationship squick), and Richie/Joe stories (ditto). Admittedly general lack of interest in Richie might have helped, but to this day I can't see the character as slashable, let alone slashable with any of the above named three gentlemen.
Then came Blake's 7. Which was a decades-old fandom by the time I saw the episodes and thus had a well-established reservoire of fanfic and pairings. I completely saw Blake/Avon, could be persuaded to Avon/Vila by the right author, and hit the Brickwall of Incomprehension again with Avon/Tarrant. Now, both Blake/Avon and Avon/Tarrant are, canonically, adversarial relationships, very different characters working together and exchanging snark. And Tarrant is the only male character in B7 who is conventionally handsome. (The others look interesting, but it always amuses me if any of them gets idealized in fanfic and described as beautiful.) So in theory, there was no reason why Tarrant shouldn't have appeared as slashable to me. Except that he really, really didn't. At the time, I blamed the Richie factor (i.e. I thought it was probably because I wasn't that interested in Tarrant as a character anyway). However, more recent fannish experiences have made me wonder.
The Jossverse, of course, is wonderfully polyamorous. And gloriously gender-equal in terms of interest. In each of the above named fandoms I had also liked het relationships and female characters (loved Amanda on HL, loved Servalan and Cally on B7), but they were not nearly as well-represented as the men were in fanfic. Not so in the Jossverse. Both canon and fanfic explores female and male characters alike and offers het relationships every bit as interesting as the slash ones. Even my bafflement at some combinations was equal-opportunity based: I started to read fanfic around season 3 of BTVS and found Angel/Willow just as incomprehensible as Angel/Xander.
Speaking of good old Xander: he ruined my Richie-and-Tarrant theory for me. Because I was and am interested in Xander as a character in a way I never was in Richie or Tarrrant, and yet until season 7, I just couldn't see any slash combination fanfic came up with him. Xander/Angel? No way. If it's Angelus, then only as a rape-to-spite-Buffy AU scenario in season 2. Xander/Oz? Err, no. (Now Oz, oddly enough, comes across as slashable to me but I just can't see a character to slash him with.) Xander/Spike? Never, no way, and also, no. Basically because they're just not interested in each other, as people, I mean, not sexually, and for a relationship - het or slash - to work for me in fanfic, I realized, there had to be some interest there to begin with. Excepting such periods as Entropy or Seeing Red, Xander couldn't care less whether Spike lived or died (so to speak), and Spike never gave the impression of wasting a Buffy-unconnected thought on Xander, either. So for the longest time I regarded Xander as completely unslashable, full stop, with the caveat there might have been a subconscious crush on Riley going on. But lo and behold, season 7 came, and with it Andrew's crush on Xander, and with the last five episodes or so the distinct possibility Xander, who never managed to kick someone out of bed if there were human and not under a spell, could be open for a h/c scenario. So I amended my "Xander unslashable" attitude to "Xander unslashable except with Andrew".
(The other slash combination I don't get emotionally in the Jossverse is Wesley/Gunn, but that's my lack of interest in Gunn, I know, and my preference for Wes/Angel.)
(Oh, and I also don't see Cordy slash unless rozk writes it, or it's Jennifer Oksana's "Blue Dahlia".)
Falling for Farscape provided yet another interesting experience as far as unconventional relationships were concerned. I mean, Chiana, bless her, could be paired with everyone who has a pulse, theorectically, but Jool aside I can't quite see it happening with any of the Moya girls. Zhaan I could see written as bisexual, just not with Chiana (due to Zhaan's somewhat motherly attitude). I could buy Aeryn/Henta in the past. Had the odd thought after seeing them work together in "Bringing Home the Beacon" that Aeryn/Sikozu, if done by the right writer, could work out.
Moving on to the men, D'Argo certainly had his share of interesting set-ups with John (that night in "Scratch-n-Sniff"), not to mention the hilarious Chiana-in-D'Argo-comes-on-to-Rygel-in-John scene, but basically comes across as straight, and anyway, I can't see John go for it. John and Scorpius had, to quote searose again, "the most bizarre courtship ritual on TV" going on for three years, and thrilling subtexty fun it was, but even leaving all of John's issues aside, I don't think physical sex with John is what Scorpius is after. As a friend of mine put it, he's the mind fuck kind of guy. Scorpius/Braca? Well, yes, on the one hand, since Braca is clearly smitten, but on the other, I see Braca to much in the military mindset to consider sex with his superior. It would probably depend on the author.
What does all this result in for me? Complete insecurity of what I want to read in fanfic. Except that I'm not interested in John/Aeryn. (As far as fanfic is concerned. It's like Sheridan/Delenn or Marcus/Ivanova in B5 for me - the show itself covered it in a way which is enough for me.) Which means I have a problem, since this is the majority of Farscape fanfic available.
(As for my REAL OTP in Farscape, see icon.)
Lastly, we have the Harry Potter phenomenon. Which offers the interesting problem of book slash. ( As does LOTR, of course, and here I have to see that pre-movies I never even considered the possibility. Now, I can see Aragorn/Boromir if it's written in a way which doesn't ignore Arwen's existence, and can even be brought to see Frodo/Sam with monkeycrackmary is writing it. I blame Peter Jackson entirely.) And the even trickier question of children as readers. At first I found Potterslash bemusing (Harry/Draco) or squickworthy (any pairing with one of the Trio and an adult character; the summary might say this would take place some years in the future, but I still had the characters as children in mind). However. JKR, bless her, does let her young characters grow and change. No Peter Pans here. (And how delighted was I to read in her BBC interview she found Peter Pan, the idea of the eternal child, infinitely creepy? So do I, which is why I used it as an excuse for murder in a HL fanfic.) After having been presented with the lot of them in the most recent novel, I find myself no longer averse to some ideas. Plus while I'm still completely neutral on Sirius/Remus I'm convinced Sirius/James is practically canon now. (Sorry, hmpf, just teasing.)
I suppose that leaves Babylon 5 as the only fandom where I have no slash interest (not even in the canonical pairing of Ivanova/Talia). Except, well, I've grown so desparate that there are no stories with Londo and G'kar around that I'd rather have Londo/G'kar than no Centauri and Narn at all...

Comments

Some remarks

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

>and can even be brought to see Frodo/Sam with monkeycrackmary is writing it.

Hmm... but wouldn't that rather be Frodo/Sam/Rosie, if monkeycrackmary is writing it? ;-)

>And the even trickier question of children as readers.

Especially in the Potterverse. Then again - how many children really read fanfic? I always was under the impression that most fanfic readers and writers are at least in their late teens, more often in their twenties or thirties.

>Plus while I'm still completely neutral on Sirius/Remus I'm convinced Sirius/James is practically canon now. (Sorry, hmpf, just teasing.)

I have no problem with Sirius/James, they just don't rock my boat, but I have no problem at all with believing the pairing. I'd venture that S/R are practically canon now, too, though. But actually, I couldn't care less whether it's canon or not. My fascination with the pairing owes much more to fanon than to canon. Book!Remus and book!Sirius are just raw material, or maybe a core for fanon to crystallize on. I think of the characters not as extensions from the book but as alternate versions, which means I actually, in this fandom, will tolerate even a degree of OOCness as long as the writer's universe and characterisation are consistent. Until recently we had, after all, very little definite info on both Sirius and Remus, so it was, IMO, perfectly legitimate to 'fill in the blanks'. And now there exists this huge corpus of fanon on S/R, and I've become obsessed with *fanon* S/R, not with the canon versions of the characters. So, all in all, the whole 'theirloveissocanon' debate doesn't really bother me, as I don't even feel obliged to accept canon as the only truth. There's a number of fanfic universes that are just as real to me. This probably makes me an unethical fan, to some degree, as it proves I have little respect for the source material, but that isn't really true - I do respect the source material, I just don't feel bound by it.
Eh. I'm rambling. I'm all exhausted from a weekend of low-temperature camping, so I should probably go to bed now.

Re: Some remarks

[selenak.livejournal.com]

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<Hmm... but wouldn't that rather be Frodo/Sam/Rosie, if monkeycrackmary is writing it? ;-)>

Too true. Though she did write some Frodo/Sam, or rather, Sam/Ring/Frodo, if you want to be technical. <g> Anyway, we likes her Pretty Good Year stories, yes we do, precious.

Fanon S/R: less irritating than fanon Draco to me, but by and large, I so far stayed away from both. Not from Sirius and/or Remus in fanfic, you understand, just from fics concentrating on their romantic relationship. (Though the one you recommended some days ago was good.

My first love, though, is the source material. I'm trying to think of an example where I liked the fanfic better than the primary text and can't come up with one right now.

Fanon shipping

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

>Fanon S/R: less irritating than fanon Draco to me, but by and large, I so far stayed away from both.

Well, fanon Draco is more of a violation of the source material, isn't he? Fan writers like to turn him completely on his head, character-wise. Whereas Sirius and Remus until recently were just these big blank spots in the source material that needed to be filled... ;-)

Besides, there's fanon and fanon, even for Sirius and Remus. There's the cute and romantic happily ever after fanon, which I despise, and there's the fanon that extrapolates from the little we're given in the books, and does it well. That's the fanon I'm talking about when I say that my S/R obsession owes a lot to fanon. Fanon, in this case, takes one aspect that is present but not very prominent in canon and makes it the main thing. It refocuses without violating the source material. Fanon in the Draco case turns canon on its head.

When I say that I will tolerate a certain degree of OOCness in the case of S/R, I don't mean character violation of the degree of fanon Draco. Let me give an example. There's a (slightly flawed) masterpiece about the ship that has a very messed up Remus in addition to the usual messed up Sirius. In the books, Remus is portrayed as this kind of ultimate nice guy, very kind, very stable, very rational, so you could say a self-destructive, messed up Remus is OOC. However, since we only see very little of him in the book, and we mostly see him in a professional situation, it is not too much of a stretch to say that what we see in the book is really only his teaching persona, and the 'real' Remus might well be a lot more troubled than anybody could guess from what we're given in PoA. So, while it takes a little mental adjustment, I can get used to a messed up Remus.

Oh, and a few words about my S/R shipping. I'm really not the greatest shipper in the fandom. Like always, I'm really more interested in the characters themselves than in their relationship, although I do like their dynamic. So, purely shippy fic doesn't do it for me. In fact, I'm perfectly happy to read non-shippy, non-slashy stuff, only there isn't very much of that available, so I've had to branch out into slash, and to my surprise found that I liked it. Well, some of it, that is.

>My first love, though, is the source material. I'm trying to think of an example where I liked the fanfic better than the primary text and can't come up with one right now.

In any fandom? Or just in HP? As you probably know, this is not the first time I've fallen in love with an *aspect* of a universe instead of the universe itself. I liked Methos fanfic better than HL:TS; I like Sirius-and/or-Remus-centric fic better than the HP books. It's not really a matter of quality, though. It's just a matter of which elements of a universe really touch me deep inside. The HP books are a fun read; they're interesting, entertaining, but they're not *fascinating* to me. Same goes for HL. But both HP and HL contain one element, one character (or two) that do touch me, so, any fic that focuses on those characters (well, any well-written fic, but that goes without saying, right?) gives me more satisfaction than the source material which will only give me bits and glimpses of the character.

Correction, and recommendations

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

>But both HP and HL contain one element, one character (or two) that do touch me

That should have read 'does touch me', of course.

Some recs:

For a short glimpse into the flawed masterpiece I mentioned, here's a companion piece to it that IMO is actually pretty perfect: 'Letters to a Madman' by Ballyharnon: http://members.cox.net/ballyharnon/of/letterstoamadman.html (Terrible layout, though. I suggest copying and pasting it into a word document. Makes it much more readable.)
If you're interested in the novel-length story itself, 'Of Linen', it can be found here:
http://members.cox.net/ballyharnon/of/oflinen.html
There's a lot more than that on the website, but I'm not comfortable recommending all of it, as there's some stories there that I don't like very much. I do like 'Of Linen', but even that has some elements that I don't like.

And here's a story I can recommend quite unequivocally: 'A Fearsome Business' by Canis M.: http://sekaiseifuku.net/fearsome.html
Unfortunately this is a WiP, but what is there already is quite nice.

Well, that should be enough for now. *g*

Point taken about the difference...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

...between fanon Draco and fanon S/R.

"In any fandom? Or just in HP?"
In any fandom. With Highlander, I loved the fanfic (well, some of it ), BUT never loved it more than HL the series at its best. And much as I loved Methos, he wasn't my sole reason for watching.

There were series' I fell out of love or rather affection (I never was obsessed with them) with, like X-Files, and I'm sure there was fanfic better written than some episodes, but I wasn't motivated to look for it. And even in this cases I had not been concentrating on one particular character before becoming disenchanted.

HP books in general, for the record: not my favourite books of all time, nor the best children's books or the best fantasy saga I ever read, but I like them, even love them, very much. I enjoy fanfic which explores aspects Rowlings, as per her time frame and narrative pov can't - i.e. the Marauders era, or the characters when Harry isn't around - but if I had to choose between them and the books, I'd take the books any time.

Oh, and as for FS fanfic...

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

well, I don't know what would be your cup of tea, but my cup of tea in that fandom is John-centric, non-shippy stuff (as well as *some* shippy stuff, as long as it's more about John or, in some cases, Aeryn themselves than about their relationship). Of course, I stopped reading FS fic soon after I started writing it, so I don't know any of the newer stuff, but Analise's 'The Delitescent Doorway' is still one of my favourite fics in any fandom. http://myscape.50megs.com/doorway.html

Actually, Sirius/Remus is the first ship ever, in any fandom, that I *really* like to read. Go figure. I'm usually the 'single character introspection' type.

Re: Oh, and as for FS fanfic...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Not a 'shipper of any calibre in FS fanfic, and the situation is not as dire as B5 fanfic - I do find stuff I like.

[andraste]

What I wonder, though: how does one's subconscious or not so subconscious make the selections?

A fascinating question. I think I've worked out the factors that draw me to particular pairings, but I'm not sure what convinces me that slash isn't a possibility for certain pairings. It boils down to 'I just don't see it' which is no answer at all.

I completely saw Blake/Avon, could be persuaded to Avon/Vila by the right author, and hit the Brickwall of Incomprehension again with Avon/Tarrant.

For me Blake/Avon leaps off the screen and - bearing in mind that I'm less than half way through Season Three - I can kind of see why people might write Avon/Tarrant although it's never going to be a favourite pairing of mine. I am yet to be convinced by the concept of Avon/Vila, although I haven't really be hunting it down. I can see them as friends, yes, but not lovers ... of course, fic recs are always appreciated.

The others look interesting, but it always amuses me if any of them gets idealized in fanfic and described as beautiful.

As far as Avon goes, I blame Dayna *g*. She did use that adjective to describe him at their first meeting, although to me this simply shows that she'd led a very isolated life. Some writers just don't know how to choose their adjectives - there's a big difference between 'attractive' and 'beautiful'.

So I amended my "Xander unslashable" attitude to "Xander unslashable except with Andrew".

I've been having the same experience, although I haven't seen the final five episodes yet and don't know when I will. My worldview is all askew - guess it just goes to show that everyone in the Jossverse is slashable with someone.

Scorpius/Braca? Well, yes, on the one hand, since Braca is clearly smitten, but on the other, I see Braca to much in the military mindset to consider sex with his superior.

But as far as we've seen, the Peace Keepers don't regard sex with superior ranks as against the rules. Indeed, the evidence of Grayza suggest that it may be compulsory in certain instances. We have the evidence of Aeryn/Velorek and Crais/Larrel, not to mention Larraq coming on to Aeryn by offering her a promotion. As far as we saw on screen, none of those sexual relationships are considered inherently dangerous or forbidden. In PK society, sex between commanding officers and subordinates seems to be quite acceptable, perhaps even encouraged.

Well now...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

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<It boils down to 'I just don't see it' which is no answer at all.>

Precisely, which is why it's so frustrating that sometimes, I can't come up with another explanation, either. Well, except "Giles/Any-Scooby-Is-Wrong" <g>.

"I am yet to be convinced by the concept of Avon/Vila, although I haven't really be hunting it down. I can see them as friends, yes, but not lovers ... of course, fic recs are always appreciated."

Oh, I can't see Avon and Vila as lovers, either. Those few fics which managed to convince me of the pairing played it as "Avon is a mess, Vila is lonely, and it wasn't a good idea". Since the stories in question were in fanzines, I can't recommend a link. However, THE best link to all things Blake's 7 is
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7/
Judith Proctor's site. She's a great Blake/Avon AND Avon/Servalan fan, too, and her stories (under her own name or as Vanessa Mullen for the NC-17 stuff) are among the best of the genre.

As you say, Dayna led a very isolated life. See also: Miranda, re: not just Ferdinand but the entire entourage. <g>

Good point about the Peacekeepers and sex with superiors.

Re: Well now...

[andraste]

Precisely, which is why it's so frustrating that sometimes, I can't come up with another explanation, either. Well, except "Giles/Any-Scooby-Is-Wrong" .

I have a few special squicks (mentor/student relationships among them) but there are many popular pairings where I ... just don't see it, for no reason I can articulate. It can indeed be frustrating.

Those few fics which managed to convince me of the pairing played it as "Avon is a mess, Vila is lonely, and it wasn't a good idea".

Ah, now *that* makes sense.

She's a great Blake/Avon AND Avon/Servalan fan, too, and her stories (under her own name or as Vanessa Mullen for the NC-17 stuff) are among the best of the genre.

Thanks for the tip :). Any other authors to look out for? I have found the library, but I find it hard to sort through since I don't know who the good B7 writers are yet.

I have a terrible feeling that I will eventually end up buying B7 zines, but not before I've found the good stuff online.

As you say, Dayna led a very isolated life. See also: Miranda, re: not just Ferdinand but the entire entourage.

Exactly - Dayna is kind of like Miranda with heavy weaponry. I'm surprised they didn't make more out of her sheltered existence on screen during the early episodes, although maybe it pops up in fanfiction.

Good point about the Peacekeepers and sex with superiors.

Just a hopeless Scorpius/Braca 'shipper justifying my devotion to the pairing ...

(Well, OK Sikozu/Scorpius/Braca 'shipper.)

Re: Well now...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

B7 authors online to look out for: Besides Judith (who has that rare distinction of loving Blake and Avon equally), there's Rebecca Ann Brothers, and Jean Graham (who writes an extremely dark Avon), and Sally Manson.
Alicia Ann Fox is good but Tarrant-centric in many of her stories.
Leah Rosenthal and Ann Wortham are responsible for the great Bizarro 7 fanzine series, which is a wonderful parody, and several of their stories are online. Several of their not-parody B7 stories are excellent. All of them are Vila-centric, and sometimes they go overboard with the Vila love, but only sometimes.
Fanzines: give up now. There are some classic stories out there. Bryn Lantry wrote what is arguable the best long Blake/Avon ever.

Dayna as Miranda: yes, it pops up in fanfic but not on the show, except for one episode which is not exactly the best thing ever.

Sikozu/Scorpius/Braca: quite. Mind you, I think Sikozu could deal with this much better than Braca, who looked somewhat green when last we saw him watching Sikozu and Scorpius. Whereas Sikozu apparantly has no problem with knowing that Scorpius is fixated on JohnwormholesJohnwormholesJohnwormholes first and foremost, and has no desire to become the No.1 obsession, or the exclusive one. What I would like to see: Sikozu and Braca are forced to team up for a mission in which they're chased by Natira...