Januar Meme: Time Travel Team consisting of historical figures

[selenak]

avrelia asked: You are going to time travel. Which historical figures you will pick up as your team and how they will help or complicate your travels?

A veritable challenge! Let's see what consuming a lot of time-travelling featuring media has taught me.

- Evidently, I would need a good engineer in case whatever time travelling device I use breaks down, because I really don't want to stay in the past. To that end, I shall recruit Nikola Tesla and Hedy Lamarr. (Why not Émilie du Chatelet? Because Émilie was a theoretical physicist, and I'd need someone with experience in practical applications who can repair stuff.)

- I would also need a doctor in case someone catches an infection in the past; as this has to be someone who on the one hand is experienced enough in modern medicine (no bloodletting, OMG!) to be of use but otoh not too far away from an era where a lot of current day medication isn't available (so they could improvise instead of going "where the hell is my aspirin!"), I shall pick Rahel Straus, the first woman who studied medicine and graduated in a German university (earlier medical ladies had to graduate abroad); she's also related to my guy Feuchtwanger, but that's not the deciding factor here. Rahel has experience in both high tech (for her time) and primitive (for her time) surroundings, is tough and extremely practical.

- Next, I need someone who is really good at gatecrashing, who is practically immune to social embarrassment (which I'm not) and who will persuade most of the interesting historical people and eras we want to meet and experience to give us the time of the day. Someone with a proven track record of cajoling even the most prickly and hermit-like people into conversation, someone with endless curiosity and ability to chat. That someone should also have a good memory and an ear for gossip so we can later note down our amazing experiences together. There's an ideal candidate for this role: step forward, James Boswell!

- in case you're wondering, I'm not recruiting a historian because I consider myself well versed enough to fill in that spot, but I do want someone with insight and knowledge of the natural life and into geography, someone with a keen scientific mind when it comes to the natural sciences, with lots of travel experience, who can observe the flora and fauna of our time travelling destinations and make sure we don't step on the proverbial butterfly and end up ensuring our own extinction; this must be Alexander von Humboldt.

- and finally, most past eras are dangerous places; I need someone with fighting experience who could defend members of our team, someone who could, depending on where we end up, do this either as a man or as a woman. I did consider the Chevalier d'Eon, but clearly, it has to be Julie d'Aubigny.


Complications: Boswell will of course hit on all female team members and be rebuffed. (Well, mostly; I could see Julie D'Aubigny having a one night stand with him in the right circumstances.) He will also end up catching some veneral disease in whichever era we end up in, and better hope he's not annoyed Rahel Straus too much. Nikola Tesla and Alexander von Humboldt might either have a mightly clash of the egos or a flirtation or both. Julie d'Aubigny will definitely hit on Hedy Lamarr, and I have no idea how that would go. Also, she might end up in a duel with someone just when she's needed elsewhere to defend the team, but Humboldt is an 18th and early 19th century Prussian noble, he does have the requisite training with weapons, so I hope he'd step up in that case.

The other days

Comments

[ffutures]

Hedy Lamarr is an interesting choice - she doesn't get portrayed much in SF although there was someone a lot like her in the second series of Agent Carter, who ultimately turned out to be a villainess. The real person did have a history of walking away from commitments when she found something better, which might not be ideal if you want someone completely trustworthy.

Julie d'Aubigny would be an excellent companion with a strong River Song vibe. If you ever run into Madame Vastra and Jenny she'll probably want a threesome...

Don't know much about the others, but it sounds like a good team.

[ffutures]

Sorry - the link from my friends page somehow omitted Tesla - he would be an interesting choice, I gather he was a bit of a slob which might not make him popular with the other time travellers, but definitely someone you want on your team if dealing with robots, cyborgs that run on static electricity, etc.

[selenak]

I picked Tesla and Lamarr together because one engineer isn't enough as assurance if the time travel device breaks down, and also they might keep each other in check. ;)

[mildred_of_midgard]

Heee!

Complications: Boswell will of course hit on all female team members and be rebuffed. (Well, mostly; I could see Julie D'Aubigny having a one night stand with him in the right circumstances.) He will also end up catching some veneral disease

Years ago, I remember reading a book about Boswell and company, and the author (Leo Damrosch) wasn't a Boswell fan, which surprised you. I never got around to elaborating on why, but one of the reasons Damrosch gives is that, at least as he presents it, Boswell wasn't just hitting on women and being rebuffed, he was straight up attempting rape if he could get away with it:

In the Strand I picked up a little profligate wretch and gave her sixpence. She allowed me entrance. But the miscreant refused me performance. I was much stronger than her, and volens nolens [willing or unwilling] pushed her up against the wall. She however gave a sudden spring from me, and screaming out, a parcel of more whores and soldiers came to her relief. “Brother soldiers,” said I, “should not a half-pay officer roger for sixpence? And here she has used me so and so.” I got them on my side, and I abused her in blackguard style, and then left them...My vanity was somewhat gratified tonight that notwithstanding of my dress, I was always taken for a gentleman in disguise.

Damrosch's commentary:

It’s an ugly scene, and Boswell has no idea how ugly. Apparently he is so drunk that after first agreeing with him, the “little profligate wretch” gets scared and pushes him away. At this point he’s attempting rape. Hearing her screaming, a crowd rushes up to help, and then they back off. As Boswell complacently acknowledges, the reason they do is that they realize he’s a gentleman in disguise. He takes that to mean that they recognize his innate superiority. What they actually realize is that a magistrate will believe his testimony and not theirs.

Your thoughts? Did he ever see the error of his ways? ETA: Alternately, are these actually his words, or is this the equivalent of fake memoirs, or what?

[selenak]

Firstly, I'm not familiar with this passage, which secondly doesn't have to mean it's a fake - I read most of the journals in the edition by Frederick Pottle, who started to publish them mid 20th century, and only the German and Swiss travels in a scientific/academic edition as well. As you might recall, I noticed differencs, though not missing attempted rape scenes, more that where Boswell had transcribed his conversations with Rousseau in the original French (which btw is how we know most of his chats with Voltaire were in English), Pottle, aiming at a general audience, had translated them into English, same with the occasional German sentence, stuff like that. If it's an authentic passage, then my guess would be timeline wise it would belong in the London Journal era, because that was the first journal published, and it was when an in his early 20s Boswell still had daydreams of maybe becoming a military man (it's the posing as one which gives me that idea), and for a short while even had a highway man fantasy after watching The Beggar's Opera and being impressed by Macheath - and since Pottle had no idea how positive the journals would received, he might have excluded this. Otoh: Mid 20th century was sadly pretty blind to attempted rapes, and the whole selling point of publishing Boswell's London journal was "here is a warts and all real life Georgian journal, and by Johnson's biographer, no less", and the published London Journal includes bits like him being impotent the first time his current crush Louisa says yes to sex (lots of woe, what must she think of me!), then a later description of their second attempt where glorious sex is achieved, and then later grrr, argh passages when he realises he's caught the clap and since she was the only woman he's been with the last three months it must be from her.

Did he see the error of his ways: one reason why I wouldn't have thought Boswell would be the type to force himself on someone is that he reports in his journals not just successful sexual (and/or for that matter romantic) encounters but also unsuccessful ones, be it due to an attack of impotence or because the woman in question turns him down. Or sometimes he doesn't have enough money with him - I seem to recall a later entry featuring a prostitute where it's a hand job only because of the money factor. And in none of those cases (that I recall) does he use force. Also, he comes across as being into enthusiastic consensual particpation, as in this passage in the London journal:

Indeed, in my mind, there cannot be higher felicity on earth enjoyed by man than the participation of genuine reciprocal amorous affection with an amiable woman. (…) I am therefore walking about with a healthful stout body and a cheerful mind, in search of a woman worthy of my love, and who thinks me worthy of hers.

Then again, here he's not speaking of a quickie with a prostitute but a romantic (and sexual) longer affair, and it may just be that he's dehumanising prostitutes in his mind enough to think they have no right so say no once they've said yes, as opposed to women of his own class (or slightly lower). But, like I said - I don't recall other examples of him attempting force on a prostitute (and there were a lot of prostitutes). He does have enough insecurities about status to make this whole being satisfied about being recognized as a gentleman sound believeable; when he's studying law in the Netherlands, he falls in love with a Dutch lady who is both his social superior and better educated and smarter than he is, which is a problem for him, though the relationship with Zelide (not her real name, but his journal nickname for her) goes on for quite a while and he keeps corresponding with her after leaving the Netherlands, and let's not forget that when travelling through the German principalities, he promotes himself to Baron von Boswell because the nobility still rules all in said principalities. And then there's the whole hang-up about being Scottish at a time when Scots are booed and hissed at in England, but that comes without any sexual connotations.

In terms of using social force in non sexual situations, that's actually one of the things that makes me like Boswell, because he doesn't even where it would be typical for the day that he does. For example when his little daughter says "I don't believe in God". I mean, he's horrified. But he doesn't react authoritarian by ordering her to stop saying that, or punishes her for saying it in the first place. He first tries to find advice in the 18th century equivalent of parenting guide books, and when he doesn't find any, he simply asks her why she said that. (It turns out she's heard beloved relation X is with God, which made her think God kidnaps people and kills them, and if she doesn't believe in God this won't happen to her. Boswell and Mrs. Boswell gently tell little Veronica this isn't how it works and explain instead of bringing down the parental hammer a la FW.) And a lot of the clients he takes as a lawyer are down on their luck poor folk like John Reid who is a repeat offender in sheep stealing (Boswell manages to get him off the first time, but the second he doesn't manage it; what he does, though is be with him till the end, share some whiskey, and promise to help the widow and the kids as much as he can), or indeed a female convict from Botany Bay who has made it back to England and would rather not be send back to Australia or killed. So here you have him siding with the powerless without much benefit to himself, not even in terms of prestige (no one ever heard of John Reid, Scottish sheep stealer with a big family, before Boswell's journals were published centuries later). (Boswell seeking the company of the famous certainly isn't just about curiosity but also about status, is what I'm saying. Boswell helping out the poor, otoh, is not.)

In conclusion: I can see why Damrosch was appalled - it's an appalling scene. And adds to the contradictions of Boswell, clearly. Whether it defines the man is up to the individual beholder, I'd say.

[mildred_of_midgard]

So as a historical linguist by training, of great interest to me is the question of languages: what languages does your team speak, and what periods? Unless it's a much wider range than I realize, I'd like to humbly recommend you take along a polyglot, particularly a dead language polyglot, as an interpreter. J.R.R. Tolkien comes to mind: he's got not only a wide range of languages he's mastered to varying degrees, allowing you to travel throughout much of Europe for the past 2,000 years or more, he can pick up any number of new languages you expose him to! He's also good at reconstruction using the comparative method, so if you end up with a language that's never been attested in writing, he'd be in a position to puzzle some of it out. As a bonus, he likes living in the past more than the present. ;)

I would like to say that he could write up the best account of your travels upon your return, earning you fame and fortune, but more realistically, what would happen would be that after he died, you would find among his papers your experiences incorporated into his unfinished world-building. *g*

[selenak]

Language: with the exception of Julie D'Aubigny, everyone speaks German, luckily for me. ;) Everyone also speaks French and English. Latin: Humboldt, Rahel Straus and Boswell, definitely; not sure about Tesla, but most likely. Hedy Lamarr and Julie D'Aubigny, no. (Ancient) Greek: Humboldt yes, Rahel maybe (can't remember whether that was a must for medical studies at the time, but it may very well have been), Tesla as a Serbian with an Orthodox priest as an uncle maybe enough for religious services, everyone else no; Rahel also speaks Hebrew, and I assume Tesla might have some command of the most popular languages in the Austro-Hungarian Empire in addition to German (and Croatian). Which means no Ancient Egypt and the likes for us (unless we're talking Ptolemaic period), if we don't have an equivalent to the Universal Translator on board. If we don't, Tolkien would be indeed an inspired choice!

[lirazel]

I love this question and your answers so much!

[selenak]

Glad to hear it. :)

[queenbookwench]

I want to watch a Legends of Tomorrow-esque (or Doctor Who I suppose) version of this, like, immediately!

[selenak]

From your lips to some producers' ears!

[beatrice_otter]

THat would be a fun team!

[lokifan]

Julie d'Aubigny will definitely hit on Hedy Lamarr, and I have no idea how that would go.

Delightfully and explosively, would be my guess :D Love these choices!

[avrelia]

I love your choices! I am also contemplating adding Archimedes to the team (surely, someone will be able communicate in Ancient Greek with him), as I am curious, what would he, Tesla and Lamarr together would come up with.

Everyone should have Julie d'Aubigny as a traveling companion!

[selenak]

Mind you, I could see Archimedes feeling depressed at first when realising most people on the team do know Latin (and only Tesla, with his uncle the orthodox priest, is likely to know some old Greek), several know what is clearly a a Latin-derived language, and the historical reason for that. (I mean, considering how he died.) But yes, it would be amazing to see him team up with Tesla and Lamarr.

[avrelia]

I expect this attitude of Archimedes would bring some discontent to your crew when you happen upon Pompeii in 79 Ad and accidentally save Pliny the Elder and keep him on board.

[cahn]

Everything about this is so delightful, both the question and your answer!

I agree that Emilie is too much of a theoretician! Tesla is excellent, I actually did not know much about Hedy Lamarr, she sounds fascinating! Yesssss James Boswell! And of course Julie d'Aubigny, now that you say it, it is obvious.

Julie d'Aubigny will definitely hit on Hedy Lamarr, and I have no idea how that would go. Also, she might end up in a duel with someone just when she's needed elsewhere to defend the team

This is awesome!

[aella_irene]

This is absolutely delightful! I will ship Hedy/Julie eternally, and look forward to their many adventures in various time periods, possibly accidentally breaking the wrong person out of prison.

Did you ever watch the Spanish programme El Ministerio del Tiempo?

[selenak]

Alas no. Is it available on any streaming service?

[aella_irene]

It looks like your best bet is Apple TV. If not, maybe Prime Video. For an amazing show, it is very hard to find...