BSG 3.07 "A Measure of Salvation"
Nov. 12th, 2006 12:50 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakThe first episode this season which I didn't find myself passionate about and wanted immediately to rewatch. Which doesn't mean I disliked it, or that it left me indifferent; far from it. It just didn't leave me wibbling, which is just as well for my stoic disposition.*g*
Good old Lee finally got something not-comic-relief-to do. You know, I wasn't that surprised he a) was the first to come up with the genocide idea without seeing it as such and b) was for it, not seeing a moral dilemma here. Why? Because Lee isn't stupid, thinks strategic, and has never given any indication he sees the Cylons as something other than machines. (Sidenote: now if Kara had argued pro-wiping them out, it would have been, at least in a big part, because she sees them as something other than machines now, because it's personal to her now.) Outside of fanfiction, when have you ever, in three seasons, seen Lee regard the Cylons as anything but (dangerous) machines? Including Sharon/Athena, with whom he seems to have reached a wary status quo but gives no indication of seeing as a person in her own right, as the awkward designation "Karl's wife" indicates. The laughter didn't suprise me, either, both because in state of constant (what "post"-) Traumatic Stress you do that, and because of Lee's and Kara's little shooting exercise in "Flight of the Phoenix". Remember whose image they used for target practice there?
As for Roslin, I don't think that was even a question, and no, I don't see it as inconsistent with her granting amnesty to the collaborators. She is a pragmatist determined to protect humanity at all costs, emphasis on "humanity"; she may see the Cylons as a sentient species but nonetheless as nothing but a danger to humans, not something whose existence/life has its own worth. Adama, in a consistency going from the miniseries over his relationship with Sharon throughout, does not feel in the same clear-cut way, but ultimately he agrees with her reasoning. Note that, as opposed to the Admiral Cain affair, he wants her to say it out loud, as an order, though. (As opposed to a suggestion leaving him with the proverbial bloody hands.)
Something else worth noticing: with the exception of Helo, Galactica entire was going to go through with it. There was no pulling back at the last moment, as with both Adama and Cain in Resurrection Ship II. If thought is indeed as culpable as deed, that does remove one more barrier between humans and Cylons, in a paradox way. Humans have now proved themselves capable of planning the genocide of an entire species as well.
Now, about Helo: I bet he's both praised and hated for his actions, depending on fannish allegiance. My own take on this is, and I'm not a particular Helo fan, I like him, but I never was that much interested in what makes him tick, that he was right. Yes, he now bears his share of responsibility for the next humans who get killed by Cylons. But he has also saved an entire species. And, much as I can see the ruthless logic behind Laura Roslin's order, I still, even in a fictional universe, believe that genocide is unacceptable as a solution. Because the Cylons, killers that they are, have a right to live just as the humans do.
Meanwhile, over at the basestar: Caprica Six made the opposite choice from Baltar in the miniseries. She did report him. And if you think about it from her perspective, from the assumption she and the others make - Baltar lied about the probe, so chances are he set them up for complete extinction by virus - it makes sense. She chooses the life of her species above him.
Only Baltar didn't set them up, and thus he gets tortured for something he can't provide. It's a rule in this fictional universe that most of the time Gaius Baltar gets punished, he doesn't get punished for something which he did do (of which there is plenty) but for what he didn't. That he gets through the torture with the help of Head!Six and his often practiced ability to live in his headspace fits both the view of Six-in-Baltar's-head as an independent being helping him and of her being his subconscious, so the jury's still out. As torture depictions go, this one did not downplay the horror despite the lack of blood (or waterboarding); there is no doubt Gaius is going through hell, and that if he had information of the nature they thought he has, he would have given it, but he hasn't, and so what he comes up with is both an attempt at ratio and an utter surrender to madness, with the later winning out. If, as Leoben says, to see the face of God is to be mad in the Cylon idea, then to be mad is to see the face of God. And that, as much as the "I love you" directed at Six-in-his-head, is probably what makes Three/D'Anna finally stop. I feel confirmed in my suspicion they're setting something up with Three and Baltar, but since I doubt they'll just dublicate the Six storyline with another Cylon, I suspect it'll go more in the direction of Three, the one who went to a human oracle to solve her doubts and dreams, coming to see Baltar as a prophet.
Both Sharon's sadness at the spectre of the basestar and the sick and dead Cylons, her impulse of touching them and her later reaction when Helo tells her about the planned genocide were great character moments, because they show that on the one hand, she hasn't completely stopped feeling for her people, but on the other, she sticks to the promise she gave, the loyalty she chose. (And of course she's right in her observation that she has to prove herself every day, it never stops.) Sharon in a very real sense can't go home again. But she still doesn't know Three told her the truth about Hera; that time bomb is yet ticking.
Lastly: when I saw there was a Leoben on board the dying basestar, I thought we might be up for a Kara confrontation scene, and judging by the stills they filmed one, but you know what? I'm glad it wasn't there. Because if this had been not just any Leoben model but Kara's (in lack of a better term), that would been the crazy interesting bastard would be permanently dead now, and I'd rather not have that. If, on the other hand, it would have been a Leoben model who never saw Kara before in his life, we'd have been for Kara venting what happened to her on someone who hadn't actually done it, which wouldn't exactly have been progress for her.
Good old Lee finally got something not-comic-relief-to do. You know, I wasn't that surprised he a) was the first to come up with the genocide idea without seeing it as such and b) was for it, not seeing a moral dilemma here. Why? Because Lee isn't stupid, thinks strategic, and has never given any indication he sees the Cylons as something other than machines. (Sidenote: now if Kara had argued pro-wiping them out, it would have been, at least in a big part, because she sees them as something other than machines now, because it's personal to her now.) Outside of fanfiction, when have you ever, in three seasons, seen Lee regard the Cylons as anything but (dangerous) machines? Including Sharon/Athena, with whom he seems to have reached a wary status quo but gives no indication of seeing as a person in her own right, as the awkward designation "Karl's wife" indicates. The laughter didn't suprise me, either, both because in state of constant (what "post"-) Traumatic Stress you do that, and because of Lee's and Kara's little shooting exercise in "Flight of the Phoenix". Remember whose image they used for target practice there?
As for Roslin, I don't think that was even a question, and no, I don't see it as inconsistent with her granting amnesty to the collaborators. She is a pragmatist determined to protect humanity at all costs, emphasis on "humanity"; she may see the Cylons as a sentient species but nonetheless as nothing but a danger to humans, not something whose existence/life has its own worth. Adama, in a consistency going from the miniseries over his relationship with Sharon throughout, does not feel in the same clear-cut way, but ultimately he agrees with her reasoning. Note that, as opposed to the Admiral Cain affair, he wants her to say it out loud, as an order, though. (As opposed to a suggestion leaving him with the proverbial bloody hands.)
Something else worth noticing: with the exception of Helo, Galactica entire was going to go through with it. There was no pulling back at the last moment, as with both Adama and Cain in Resurrection Ship II. If thought is indeed as culpable as deed, that does remove one more barrier between humans and Cylons, in a paradox way. Humans have now proved themselves capable of planning the genocide of an entire species as well.
Now, about Helo: I bet he's both praised and hated for his actions, depending on fannish allegiance. My own take on this is, and I'm not a particular Helo fan, I like him, but I never was that much interested in what makes him tick, that he was right. Yes, he now bears his share of responsibility for the next humans who get killed by Cylons. But he has also saved an entire species. And, much as I can see the ruthless logic behind Laura Roslin's order, I still, even in a fictional universe, believe that genocide is unacceptable as a solution. Because the Cylons, killers that they are, have a right to live just as the humans do.
Meanwhile, over at the basestar: Caprica Six made the opposite choice from Baltar in the miniseries. She did report him. And if you think about it from her perspective, from the assumption she and the others make - Baltar lied about the probe, so chances are he set them up for complete extinction by virus - it makes sense. She chooses the life of her species above him.
Only Baltar didn't set them up, and thus he gets tortured for something he can't provide. It's a rule in this fictional universe that most of the time Gaius Baltar gets punished, he doesn't get punished for something which he did do (of which there is plenty) but for what he didn't. That he gets through the torture with the help of Head!Six and his often practiced ability to live in his headspace fits both the view of Six-in-Baltar's-head as an independent being helping him and of her being his subconscious, so the jury's still out. As torture depictions go, this one did not downplay the horror despite the lack of blood (or waterboarding); there is no doubt Gaius is going through hell, and that if he had information of the nature they thought he has, he would have given it, but he hasn't, and so what he comes up with is both an attempt at ratio and an utter surrender to madness, with the later winning out. If, as Leoben says, to see the face of God is to be mad in the Cylon idea, then to be mad is to see the face of God. And that, as much as the "I love you" directed at Six-in-his-head, is probably what makes Three/D'Anna finally stop. I feel confirmed in my suspicion they're setting something up with Three and Baltar, but since I doubt they'll just dublicate the Six storyline with another Cylon, I suspect it'll go more in the direction of Three, the one who went to a human oracle to solve her doubts and dreams, coming to see Baltar as a prophet.
Both Sharon's sadness at the spectre of the basestar and the sick and dead Cylons, her impulse of touching them and her later reaction when Helo tells her about the planned genocide were great character moments, because they show that on the one hand, she hasn't completely stopped feeling for her people, but on the other, she sticks to the promise she gave, the loyalty she chose. (And of course she's right in her observation that she has to prove herself every day, it never stops.) Sharon in a very real sense can't go home again. But she still doesn't know Three told her the truth about Hera; that time bomb is yet ticking.
Lastly: when I saw there was a Leoben on board the dying basestar, I thought we might be up for a Kara confrontation scene, and judging by the stills they filmed one, but you know what? I'm glad it wasn't there. Because if this had been not just any Leoben model but Kara's (in lack of a better term), that would been the crazy interesting bastard would be permanently dead now, and I'd rather not have that. If, on the other hand, it would have been a Leoben model who never saw Kara before in his life, we'd have been for Kara venting what happened to her on someone who hadn't actually done it, which wouldn't exactly have been progress for her.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2006-11-12 02:12 pm (UTC)What's Lee's plan? Bait the Cylons, lure them in, kill the infected prisoners so they'll infect the Ressurection ship. So? If they're lucky, they' might also infect a surrounding basetar or two, but how are they going to make sure this spreads to the entire Cylon race? The Cylons already know about the virus, any they'll stay well away from any affected ships. This isn't genocide, unless Laura and Lee plan to chase down every single Cylon ship out there and risk the fleet in the process. They've simply been given a very, very important weapon against the Cylons and Lee's plan is just a chance to cripple the Cylon fleet and buy humanity some more time...possibly make sure they don't come near Earth, or the human fleet again. Which sort of negates any heroism in Helo's actions, but I'm equally gobsmacked by Laura and Lee thinking thsi is going to wipe the Cylons out once and for all.
no subject
Date: 2006-11-12 02:51 pm (UTC)I do agree that the illness isn't the potential be-all and end-all that Lee and Laura perceive it to be, unless resurrection ships communicate with other resurrection ships and basestars. Infect a resurrection ship, the equivalent of a router, and all resurrection ships and basestars will become infected. The Cylons, uh, don't have antivirus software running on their communication datastreams or the ability to block out communications. Once you have access to the main Cylon datastream, you have full access to everything.
Which kind of has implications for Athena's I-cut-myself-off-from-the-others status. This is getting complicated *sigh*
no subject
Date: 2006-11-12 03:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-12 03:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-12 04:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-12 04:12 pm (UTC)I don't find myself with a lot to say about this one, 24 hours later, except that I really liked the laughing-Lee moment, and Grace Park's performance in general.
no subject
Date: 2006-11-12 04:18 pm (UTC)I never got the complaints about her acting anyway, but yes, she was great throughout the episode.
no subject
Date: 2006-11-12 04:26 pm (UTC)I suspect it'll go more in the direction of Three, the one who went to a human oracle to solve her doubts and dreams, coming to see Baltar as a prophet.
i can see that playing out, and if it does, that would be very interesting!
no subject
Date: 2006-11-12 04:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-12 04:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-12 04:48 pm (UTC)What surprised me was that people immediately jumped on the conclusion that Six' "we don't ever talk about them" means the seven and the five parted in civil war. Because my guess was something different, also based on the fact we see the Hybrid for the first time in that same episode. The five were/are models to whom something terrible happened which somehow benefited the Cylons as a whole, though. Now whether they volunteered for the sacrifice or whether they were made to I have no opinion about, but I don't think it was via war, otherwise the Six versus D'Anna on Caprica would not have been such a big deal, nor Sharon's switching of sides.
no subject
Date: 2006-11-12 04:58 pm (UTC)ron moore interviews have suggested that the five are so stealth that even the seven don't know who they are. could be interesting to see that unfold.
no subject
Date: 2006-11-12 05:54 pm (UTC)I wasn't surprised that Lee was the one that thought of the plan, because of all those things you point out.
I think Helo did the right thing, and in spite of the fact that he may have contributed to more deaths by doing so, he was right that the humans were endangering their souls, (for lack of a better word), and that would make them no better than the Cylons. He has a unique perspective, because he knows Sharon is a person,and has always thought of her as such. I loved their little moments together, and I loved how true Sharon is to her choice.
Roslin is as always, the pragmatist. I think Adama was secretly relieved that the plan was scuttled, which is why he refused to investigate further.
no subject
Date: 2006-11-13 12:38 am (UTC)