Heroes 1.19, ".07 %"
Apr. 24th, 2007 05:51 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakClearly, I need a Heroes icon. This one comes from the source that's clearly the inspiration for the Linderman part of this episode. (Alan Moore's Watchmen, which anyone who hasn't read it yet needs to check out.)
Okay, that was awesome, and I'm so rewatching it as soon as I've typed my review and read what everyone else had to say, real life be dammed. I loved all the various plot threads here, though admittedly the Petrellis a bit more.
But first: Mr. Bennet shows that becoming a White Hat for the sake of his daughter has not reduced his intelligence and is so smart and capable and in charge when he's organizing his own jailbreak that I'm swooning. Also, Matt wisely recognizes that he needs to leave the planning to Bennet, and apparantly exploding the Bennet home has made Ted somewhat clearer in the head, too, so he listens to Matt and Bennet both. Yay for team jailbreak!
We didn't see the DL and Jessica scene in the previouslies before, but never mind, it was good we saw it now, because Jessica's "Im not sure" confirms my opinion that Jessica isn't actually a separate entity but that Niki, due to what happened to her and her actual twin sister at the hand of their father, did develop multiple personalities disorder. Also, Jessica standing her ground with Linderman and protecting Micah thankfully helped blurring the good/bad divide with her and Niki further, which I'm all for, and I think that now that Linderman has used Candace to get Micah, Jessica and Niki will work together voluntarily and will start to integrate.
Linderman: like I said, he clearly has read Alan Moore and thinks he's Ozymandias, or rather, that he can set up Nathan to be Ozymandias for him. Seriously, Kring and co. should consider paying Moore royalties, because the former League of Heroes with it all going sour? Check. Big catastrophe killing lots of people in NY turning out to be masterplan of former hero to achieve world peace? Check. I don't mind at all, if it's such a stylish homage. Plus of course we'll get not just one but two twists on the concept. Watchmen ends with Ozymandias having suceeded and the surviving heroes reluctantly agreeing not to expose him because otherwise everyone will have died in vain and the cold war (this comic was written in the early 80s) will be back with a vengeance.... but the last panel shows that the truth about Ozymandias will actually come out anyway. On Heroes, next week, it looks like we'll get the future where Linderman's plan did succeed, and it looks like it's the Heroes version of the Wishverse, with everyone evil or desperate or both (whoever visited a future where everyone was fine and dandy?); on the show proper, presumably something else will happen, and I can't wait to find out. Anyway, Linderman not as a I WANNA DESTROY/RULE THE WORLD type of villain but as a twisted messiah is of course far more interesting; we have Sylar already to be our psychopath. More about him in a moment, but first, Linderman and Nathan: great temptation scene. I'll get to Nathan's reaction there and later when I talk about the Petrellis, but here I want to say, the "you must bring all your first dates here" line from Nathan reminded me of how he asked Niki in Collision - after she told him her husband had left - whether it was for another woman or another man. For a presumably conservative politician, he's refreshingly non-repressed in this regard.
Linderman is now short of one painter delivering pictures, of course, and will have to show his future first dates other things. Isaac went out with dignity and courage, ordering his affairs through the episode, having meta conversations (no spoilers!) and using his abilities to the last to warn the others. Isaac, you could screw up terribly through your life, but the way you faced your imminent and cruel death was truly admirable. Rest in peace. (And was it me, or was there a hint he was satisfied that Sylar was now stuck with the precognition? Because you know, seeing the future? Not such a fun thing, as Isaac already knows and Sylar will probably find out.)
...but really, the heart and soul of this episode? OMG Petrellis and Claire. Wait, I also have to say something about Mohinder before I get to them, I guess; good for him to use the opportunity to knock out Sylar and save Peter from brain suckage, not so good for him that he's still pretty but dumb and invariably prone to trust the next villain to come along. Have fun working with the Company, Mohinder.
Sylar-Peter showdown, first round: really cool. Creative use of their various powers, and a promise of things to come.
...and now I really can't restrain myself any longer. PETRELLIS!
Angela Petrelli: got to show the whole spectrum from ruthless manipulator to wounded mother. Her argument to Claire made absolute sense and is probably true (which doesn't mean she's not using it manipulatively), and of course, oohhhhhh, such intriguing revelations. So Angela was probably in that league Linderman founded when young, along with the late Daddy Petrelli. What is her power? My current guess is shared/precognitive dreams, as that's the one Peter displays first chronologically (in the Six Months Ago flashback when Nathan and Heidi have the "accident"), before flying. And why didn't she tell either son - did she think they would never get active?
Petrelli family dysfunction observation the first: Angela, when alone with Peter, can show her grief in that beautiful breakdown moment. Later on, when Nathan has his own breakdown, she's unable to communicate with him other than through appealing to his inner politician, the ruthless survivor, and that just doesn't work there.
Claire: is quick to realize her grandmother is not a nice old lady but the Godmother herself who could teach Don Corleone a thing or two. Is so expecting rejection and breaks my heart with it, continues to be brave and smart, and you've got to love how they set up ages ago that Claire knows, but everyone else doesn't (except we the audience, of course), that something in hers or Peter's head stops the regeneration and means temporary death.
Nathan and Peter. Peter and Nathan. I was so glued on my viewscreen. During his temptation scene with Linderman, you can see that Nathan does understand where Linderman is getting at with the Watchmen plan, and even if he thinks it insane at first, he can see the potential, the rewards, he is that morally grey himself... but it all hinges on Peter dying, and that does it. It's not the 0.07 percent of the world population dying that's unacceptable, but Peter dying, and he just can't go there. So he walks out.
And then we get him finding his (temporary) dead brother, the unacceptable has happened, and everything else is pointless. That scene, with Nathan cradling Peter, it just kills me. So does the post resurrection scene, which is the physical reverse - they don't touch once, which is rare for the Petrellis, and you can see the shifting power dynamics here as well as Nathan letting his guard down verbally, with a conscious Peter. Love declarations when Peter is in a coma are one thing, but "I don't know who I am without you" when awake? And Peter, with a new zen, plays the role of walking conscience quite differently now: instead of "I want", you get "you have to, and you are".
Peter, however, is unaware that one pit of information makes a crucial difference here. "Lucky I can't die then." And there it is. Not when Linderman makes the suggestion, but THAT is when Nathan starts to fall for the Ozymandias plan. If he has the guarantee that Peter won't die, then getting to be President, new era, by the not stopping the death of 0.07 percent of the world population is acceptable.
The great thing about Nathan's characterisation is that you really can see him go both ways at this point, and like I said above, I suspect we will literaly see him go both ways on the show, first one, then (presumably, unless he dies in the finale, which I really don't want him to) the other. Whereas with all the other characters their decision would not be a question.
The symbol of the bloody shard when Nathan looks at it in the end, and uses it to open the painting Linderman send him: the shard as the cause of Peter's temporary death and the promise of his resurrection and survival both.
Nathan and Claire: I'm glad the way they're playing this, not as competition to Claire's bond to Mr. Bennet, who is her real father in all ways that count, but as something quite different, but also very interesting. He tries not to lie to her, and yet there is one big lie in what he says - not the promise of a family after the election but that what he looks at, the shard and the painting; he's not just sending her out of New York because of the reasons he gives but because of what is going to happen. I'm also reminded of his conversation with Niki about having to wear two faces, one for one's children and the real one, and the conversation Nathan and Niki had later, the day after: about wanting to be good. Not wanting to be the person in the mirror. Nathan, telling Claire he wants to be good, wants to be better than what he was, is sincere and is lying to both himself and her at the same time because at this very point he has started to believe that he can do that via first doing - or rather, permitting - something terrible.
I love this show.
Okay, that was awesome, and I'm so rewatching it as soon as I've typed my review and read what everyone else had to say, real life be dammed. I loved all the various plot threads here, though admittedly the Petrellis a bit more.
But first: Mr. Bennet shows that becoming a White Hat for the sake of his daughter has not reduced his intelligence and is so smart and capable and in charge when he's organizing his own jailbreak that I'm swooning. Also, Matt wisely recognizes that he needs to leave the planning to Bennet, and apparantly exploding the Bennet home has made Ted somewhat clearer in the head, too, so he listens to Matt and Bennet both. Yay for team jailbreak!
We didn't see the DL and Jessica scene in the previouslies before, but never mind, it was good we saw it now, because Jessica's "Im not sure" confirms my opinion that Jessica isn't actually a separate entity but that Niki, due to what happened to her and her actual twin sister at the hand of their father, did develop multiple personalities disorder. Also, Jessica standing her ground with Linderman and protecting Micah thankfully helped blurring the good/bad divide with her and Niki further, which I'm all for, and I think that now that Linderman has used Candace to get Micah, Jessica and Niki will work together voluntarily and will start to integrate.
Linderman: like I said, he clearly has read Alan Moore and thinks he's Ozymandias, or rather, that he can set up Nathan to be Ozymandias for him. Seriously, Kring and co. should consider paying Moore royalties, because the former League of Heroes with it all going sour? Check. Big catastrophe killing lots of people in NY turning out to be masterplan of former hero to achieve world peace? Check. I don't mind at all, if it's such a stylish homage. Plus of course we'll get not just one but two twists on the concept. Watchmen ends with Ozymandias having suceeded and the surviving heroes reluctantly agreeing not to expose him because otherwise everyone will have died in vain and the cold war (this comic was written in the early 80s) will be back with a vengeance.... but the last panel shows that the truth about Ozymandias will actually come out anyway. On Heroes, next week, it looks like we'll get the future where Linderman's plan did succeed, and it looks like it's the Heroes version of the Wishverse, with everyone evil or desperate or both (whoever visited a future where everyone was fine and dandy?); on the show proper, presumably something else will happen, and I can't wait to find out. Anyway, Linderman not as a I WANNA DESTROY/RULE THE WORLD type of villain but as a twisted messiah is of course far more interesting; we have Sylar already to be our psychopath. More about him in a moment, but first, Linderman and Nathan: great temptation scene. I'll get to Nathan's reaction there and later when I talk about the Petrellis, but here I want to say, the "you must bring all your first dates here" line from Nathan reminded me of how he asked Niki in Collision - after she told him her husband had left - whether it was for another woman or another man. For a presumably conservative politician, he's refreshingly non-repressed in this regard.
Linderman is now short of one painter delivering pictures, of course, and will have to show his future first dates other things. Isaac went out with dignity and courage, ordering his affairs through the episode, having meta conversations (no spoilers!) and using his abilities to the last to warn the others. Isaac, you could screw up terribly through your life, but the way you faced your imminent and cruel death was truly admirable. Rest in peace. (And was it me, or was there a hint he was satisfied that Sylar was now stuck with the precognition? Because you know, seeing the future? Not such a fun thing, as Isaac already knows and Sylar will probably find out.)
...but really, the heart and soul of this episode? OMG Petrellis and Claire. Wait, I also have to say something about Mohinder before I get to them, I guess; good for him to use the opportunity to knock out Sylar and save Peter from brain suckage, not so good for him that he's still pretty but dumb and invariably prone to trust the next villain to come along. Have fun working with the Company, Mohinder.
Sylar-Peter showdown, first round: really cool. Creative use of their various powers, and a promise of things to come.
...and now I really can't restrain myself any longer. PETRELLIS!
Angela Petrelli: got to show the whole spectrum from ruthless manipulator to wounded mother. Her argument to Claire made absolute sense and is probably true (which doesn't mean she's not using it manipulatively), and of course, oohhhhhh, such intriguing revelations. So Angela was probably in that league Linderman founded when young, along with the late Daddy Petrelli. What is her power? My current guess is shared/precognitive dreams, as that's the one Peter displays first chronologically (in the Six Months Ago flashback when Nathan and Heidi have the "accident"), before flying. And why didn't she tell either son - did she think they would never get active?
Petrelli family dysfunction observation the first: Angela, when alone with Peter, can show her grief in that beautiful breakdown moment. Later on, when Nathan has his own breakdown, she's unable to communicate with him other than through appealing to his inner politician, the ruthless survivor, and that just doesn't work there.
Claire: is quick to realize her grandmother is not a nice old lady but the Godmother herself who could teach Don Corleone a thing or two. Is so expecting rejection and breaks my heart with it, continues to be brave and smart, and you've got to love how they set up ages ago that Claire knows, but everyone else doesn't (except we the audience, of course), that something in hers or Peter's head stops the regeneration and means temporary death.
Nathan and Peter. Peter and Nathan. I was so glued on my viewscreen. During his temptation scene with Linderman, you can see that Nathan does understand where Linderman is getting at with the Watchmen plan, and even if he thinks it insane at first, he can see the potential, the rewards, he is that morally grey himself... but it all hinges on Peter dying, and that does it. It's not the 0.07 percent of the world population dying that's unacceptable, but Peter dying, and he just can't go there. So he walks out.
And then we get him finding his (temporary) dead brother, the unacceptable has happened, and everything else is pointless. That scene, with Nathan cradling Peter, it just kills me. So does the post resurrection scene, which is the physical reverse - they don't touch once, which is rare for the Petrellis, and you can see the shifting power dynamics here as well as Nathan letting his guard down verbally, with a conscious Peter. Love declarations when Peter is in a coma are one thing, but "I don't know who I am without you" when awake? And Peter, with a new zen, plays the role of walking conscience quite differently now: instead of "I want", you get "you have to, and you are".
Peter, however, is unaware that one pit of information makes a crucial difference here. "Lucky I can't die then." And there it is. Not when Linderman makes the suggestion, but THAT is when Nathan starts to fall for the Ozymandias plan. If he has the guarantee that Peter won't die, then getting to be President, new era, by the not stopping the death of 0.07 percent of the world population is acceptable.
The great thing about Nathan's characterisation is that you really can see him go both ways at this point, and like I said above, I suspect we will literaly see him go both ways on the show, first one, then (presumably, unless he dies in the finale, which I really don't want him to) the other. Whereas with all the other characters their decision would not be a question.
The symbol of the bloody shard when Nathan looks at it in the end, and uses it to open the painting Linderman send him: the shard as the cause of Peter's temporary death and the promise of his resurrection and survival both.
Nathan and Claire: I'm glad the way they're playing this, not as competition to Claire's bond to Mr. Bennet, who is her real father in all ways that count, but as something quite different, but also very interesting. He tries not to lie to her, and yet there is one big lie in what he says - not the promise of a family after the election but that what he looks at, the shard and the painting; he's not just sending her out of New York because of the reasons he gives but because of what is going to happen. I'm also reminded of his conversation with Niki about having to wear two faces, one for one's children and the real one, and the conversation Nathan and Niki had later, the day after: about wanting to be good. Not wanting to be the person in the mirror. Nathan, telling Claire he wants to be good, wants to be better than what he was, is sincere and is lying to both himself and her at the same time because at this very point he has started to believe that he can do that via first doing - or rather, permitting - something terrible.
I love this show.
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no subject
Date: 2007-04-24 04:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-04-24 05:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-04-24 05:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-04-24 07:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-04-24 07:37 pm (UTC)Well, for one thing, we'll the the long term aftermath of the plan - in two variations, if I'm right - , which we did not see with Moore, so that is a twist already.
I'm sort of not seeing how either one of them is that unique. Next week's flash-forward AU episode seems to be the universe where Lindermann's plan works -- which isn't all that different from what happens in Watchmen. Even though it appears to be two years on, I'm having a hard time seeing what could be developed here that monumentally blows past Moore's original thesis.
And of course, eventually Hiro will jump back into our current timeline, and the cast will change the timestream so the nuclear bomb/Peter/Syler/Radiation Guy doesn't blow the world up. In which case, the Adrian/Lindermann 'blow up New York to save humanity from itself' plan is just another foiled plan by another foiled villian.
Now, what would be neat to me, is if the show just owned Moore's story out-and-out and did justice to it, by having the end of season reveal be that our Heroes don't manage to stop the nuclear attack. As opposed as I am to updating Watchmen itself (looking right at you, Zak Penn) for the 9/11 era, it would still be interesting to see it updated. And then, since the other storyline it is kind of taking from is "Days of Future Past", they could just own it by doing that and getting bleaker and bleaker until Future Hiro of the Soulpatch does his Kitty Pryde and jumps back to start the storyline. Unfortunately, that's an idea that's probably too bleak for American network TV.
I also think it's funny that we're so contra on these two fandoms, when we tend to generally agree on other things.
Random fly-by comment
Date: 2007-04-24 07:47 pm (UTC)Ahh, when X-Men was still coherent within one book and you didn't have to go broke to keep track of storylines... (I came in to X-Men at the beginning of the Proteus storyline, and spent oodles of money getting back-issues back to the start of the New X-Men -- stuck with it for a few years until they started spreading out into X-Everything and you had to buy 30 comics a month just to keep track of one storyline... These were some of my FAVOURITE books. Of course, the Byrne/Austin team didn't hurt, either!)
no subject
Date: 2007-04-24 08:03 pm (UTC)Zak Penn, I mean, Zack Snyder. Brain issues, obviously.But here's the thing.
Date: 2007-04-24 08:28 pm (UTC)After going through 9/11, we know now that Moore's original thesis was *wrong.* Moore assumed that Adrian's plan, though morally horrific, would *work* -- that it really would unite the world. We now know that a horrific event happening to New York City would actually cause America to start to go down the road to fascism, intensify inter-human conflicts, and give the war machine a green light to suck all the money out of human services.
*That's* the twist here. Linderman can't see the future. Hiro can. Linderman's plan won't save the world, it will destroy it -- but Linderman won't be convinced of that. And that's the important difference. Moore's sympathies were with Rorschach, but he believed that a morally horrifying disaster really could unite humanity and bring about world peace. At least here in the 21st century, that is not going to work, and I think that's going to be Tim Kring's point -- that you cannot accomplish good through evil. (Although, I *did* start to think, after Isaac's speech, that perhaps Sylar will actually be instrumental in saving the world... that *that* is the destiny Sylar is headed toward, that he'll die as a "hero". But Sylar saving the world can be part of a redemption arc -- that is, he is able to do good things *despite* the evil he has done, not because of it -- whereas Linderman totally believes that he must do something evil to accomplish good, and I think we'll find out next week that no good will come of it after all.)
Re: But here's the thing.
Date: 2007-04-24 08:46 pm (UTC)I just don't believe that Heroes has the bite to deal with those issues, and so in the final, the Heroes are going to stop New York from imploding. Which doesn't do anything for me either, since that could be any one of a number of comics written since the beginning of the 20th century. Thus why I think using the Watchmen plot is cheap -- because they're not actually doing anything real with it. So we find out that nothing good can be done through evil? Yawn.
It's probably a good move overall, because like I said: a.) network tv doesn't have that kind of muscle and b.) one Battlestar Galactica is enough for me. It just annoys me because I think that it not only stole from Moore, but then did it to misunderstand the entire point.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-24 10:25 pm (UTC)Witchblade did that; it annoyed the hell out of me.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-24 10:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-04-24 06:15 pm (UTC)I'm fascinated by the revellation that our gang of Heroes is in essence the next generation; it seems like the previous one which includes Mamma Petrelli and Claude basically gave up the fight, and tried to hide their talents away, while Linderman decided to be the power behind the throne.
I had forgotten the scene when Claire was revived after the wood was pulled out of her skull..I wonder if there is a time limit for that sort of injury? If the glass hadn't been removed, would Peter eventually have truly died?
Can't wait for the next episode.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-24 07:02 pm (UTC)Good question. Claire was dead at least an entire night and a bit of a day, Peter at least as long as it took for Nathan to come back to New York to Las Vegas. The question is: if the twig/glass shard would not have been removed, would decomposition have set in? Because if not, then it's probably an unlimited time span thing.
Rambling reactions
Date: 2007-04-24 07:05 pm (UTC)Your review is fantastic -- I'm going to be less coherent here because I'm still picking out bits and speculating like crazy.
I'm fascinated by where Nathan seems to be going here. I hope he doesn't go that way, because I was SO happy when he actually turned out to be working with the FBI to take Linderman down. Now I'm worried for him...
I'm very amused by the double entendres they have Nathan making around Linderman -- first there was the 'eating zucchini' comment he made in the previous episode (not just a phallic vegetable, but an Italian phallic vegetable! They can NOT tell me the subtext is unintentional!), then the 'first dates' comment here!
The one spoiler I had for this episode was three words in someone's comment somewhere -- I had no idea if it was speculation or real, but I saw "Linderman can heal". I had seen the pictures of dead!Peter on the couch, and was terrified that Linderman would come to NY with Nathan when he was called, and be the one to heal Peter. I was very worried that they'd end up owing him even more than they already did. Now, obviously, they will anyway. BUT, it won't be that personal.
I was particularly freaked when Linderman used Peter's words: "Healing one person at a time is just not enough." I'm not sure what it actually signifies, but it was one of those things that gave me goosebumps.
Sylar about Mohinder: "I'm not finished with him yet." Yeah, I'll bet he isn't! ;)
I loved the continuity with the brain-stem injury keeping the regeneration from happening -- I'd been yelling at Mohinder to pull the damned shard out of his head, but Claire doing it makes even more sense. At least Peter didn't need to reassemble himself (I bet Claire HATES jigsaw puzzles now...)!
Since the tracking system is in NYC, we finally know how Peter will get exposed to Ted -- I'd been wondering about that for quite a while now. I'm still not sure whether the exploding man is Peter or Ted... And being able to set off an EMP is a fascinating talent. I'm hoping as they all get more used to their abilities, they'll find some more creative extrapolations of what each person can do.
And I'm not all that sure Mr. Petrelli is really Nathan's and/or Peter's father. I really hope that whoever is, they're still full brothers, though.
I'm still a little confused about how the Company people actually work for Linderman -- there's a bit of a logic gap there. Unless Thompson is working on his own agenda, and when Linderman discovers it, it will go badly for him. I hope it does. :)
Pure speculation here, but I figure Linderman's going to use Micah to rig the election. A little technopathic tweaking here and there, and *poof* Instant winner! My question is, though, how does a junior Congressman end up "a heartbeat from the Presidency" in two years -- that phrasing is used to refer to the Vice President, and it would either take some spectacular wrangling on Nathan + Linderman's part, OR about half of the population of Congress and the Cabinet being wiped out for it to happen in that short a period of time.
Nathan sobbing over Peter -- I have SO MUCH LOVE for this scene!
And oh, Mohinder, please stop making the wrong choices. PLEASE.
Re: Rambling reactions
Date: 2007-04-24 07:08 pm (UTC)Re: Rambling reactions
Date: 2007-04-24 07:38 pm (UTC)Re: Rambling reactions
Date: 2007-04-24 07:36 pm (UTC)I've decided that the beauty of the character is that not only is he capable of going both ways, we'll see him going both ways. And the fact he appears to go the Dictator!route in the future episode means, to me, that he ultimately will make the opposite decision on the show proper, though probably at the last minute (because that's a Nathan pattern so far, coming through at the last minute) - Babylon 5 aside (insert sobbing for Londo here), episodes showing us the future of our regular cast usually serve a warning purpose and mean they ultimately don't go there in the end. I have no problem being presented with Darkside Nathan as long as he remains shades of grey in "our" timeline.*g*
I was particularly freaked when Linderman used Peter's words: "Healing one person at a time is just not enough." I'm not sure what it actually signifies, but it was one of those things that gave me goosebumps.
I took it to mean that he's not lying to Nathan in one regard: he did start out as an idealist, just like Peter. If the webcomics are canon, this is true, but then, I'm usually an onscreen canon only girl.
Sylar about Mohinder: "I'm not finished with him yet." Yeah, I'll bet he isn't! ;)
That was such a "no touching of the boytoy, I still want to play some more!" moment!
I'm very amused by the double entendres they have Nathan making around Linderman -- first there was the 'eating zucchini' comment he made in the previous episode (not just a phallic vegetable, but an Italian phallic vegetable! They can NOT tell me the subtext is unintentional!), then the 'first dates' comment here!
They are so doing it intentionally. Also, observe Linderman whispering in Nathan's ear when he says "what if I told you that it was".
At least Peter didn't need to reassemble himself (I bet Claire HATES jigsaw puzzles now...)!
Oh yeah. Anyone giving Claire a jigsaw puzzle for Christmas will get smacked. Incidentally, and to be fair to the Pretty But Dumb One, he has no idea Peter can regenerate. As he wasn't allowed to study him. Which is Peter's fault for prefering lessons with Claude instead.*veg* So anyway, no surprise Mohinder didn't clue in on the glass shard.
And being able to set off an EMP is a fascinating talent. I'm hoping as they all get more used to their abilities, they'll find some more creative extrapolations of what each person can do.
Yes. It makes sense that initial uses of their powers would be the blunt and, in Ted's case, catastrophic kind, but note that long term power users like Linderman (that demonstration with the flower) and Claude are able to be far more subtle and focused about it.
And I'm not all that sure Mr. Petrelli is really Nathan's and/or Peter's father. I really hope that whoever is, they're still full brothers, though.
You mean Mrs. Petrelli might have had a fling with Linderman? Not impossible, but I doubt they'll play the two fathers card twice. Revealing Nathan as Claire's bio dad is one thing, but doing the "your biological father is really..." thing twice or thrice is soap opera-ish.
If you want to hear a really whacky theory, though, which
Re: Rambling reactions
Date: 2007-04-24 09:03 pm (UTC)...I have no problem being presented with Darkside Nathan as long as he remains shades of grey in "our" timeline.*g*
Oh true! Hadn't really thought that through -- since obviously Hiro will go back to try and fix things (and please, Hiro, fix it so Peter never, EVER kisses Jessica/Niki. Yecch! Sorry to anyone who likes the thought of that pairing, but an empath who's got Peter's issues really does not need to share hers!), that would work out well!
Re: Linderman:
I took it to mean that he's not lying to Nathan in one regard: he did start out as an idealist, just like Peter. If the webcomics are canon, this is true, but then, I'm usually an onscreen canon only girl.
I haven't even looked at those. One of these years I need to type up my rant about non-canon canon... Although I should download them just to have... Then again, I also want to buy a Vote Petrelli mug... :D
Incidentally, and to be fair to the Pretty But Dumb One, he has no idea Peter can regenerate. As he wasn't allowed to study him. Which is Peter's fault for prefering lessons with Claude instead.*veg*
Hee -- Pretty But Dumb One :) Personally, I'd take lessons with Claude over being a science experiment any day. There's just something inherently icky about the experimentation angle of it... And Claude is prickly but cute (something like a big cranky hedgehog...?)
So anyway, no surprise Mohinder didn't clue in on the glass shard.
This is true, but isn't the typical reaction to want to remove things sticking out of people when they're injured/dead? That's part of the reason why people die from stab wounds and such that they might have otherwise survived, etc. On the other hand, Mohinder didn't even close Peter's eyes, so maybe he spent all that time wrecking the computer, then didn't have time to do more than shove Peter into the cab before Sylar woke up again. (I won't even speculate on why he didn't just off Sylar/tie him up/SOMETHING while Sylar was unconscious -- obviously Sylar got under his skin too much for him to actually take that step... ;) )
It makes sense that initial uses of their powers would be the blunt and, in Ted's case, catastrophic kind, but note that long term power users like Linderman (that demonstration with the flower) and Claude are able to be far more subtle and focused about it.
We've seen Nathan break the sound barrier (he could really use the telekinesis or healing ability to land well from that -- owie feet!), Sylar's frighteningly fine-tuned telekinesis, Ted now figuring out how to do the EMP. This makes me very happy.
You mean Mrs. Petrelli might have had a fling with Linderman? Not impossible, but I doubt they'll play the two fathers card twice. Revealing Nathan as Claire's bio dad is one thing, but doing the "your biological father is really..." thing twice or thrice is soap opera-ish.
Oh, that's a thought. True.
And I am SO not going there on the other thing :) Brotherly incest I can handle much better than Father/son incest... It is an utterly twisted theory, though! (Do we know Nathan's that much older? I've been trying to pin it down, and have anywhere from 7 to 12 years between them...)
Re: Rambling reactions
Date: 2007-04-24 09:24 pm (UTC)*tongue in cheek* But consider! If the Jessica/Niki divide is tied to her superpower (which btw I don't believe, I think that came about separately, but just for the sake of messing with your mind, let's assume it is), and Jessica is actually Niki's dead twin sister, would that mean Peter echoing her power starts to manifest Nathan now and then?
On a more serious note: I have the theory that the Petrellis are partly inspired by the Kennedys. Which would make Niki Marilyn Monroe.
On a calming you down note: I don't think Niki and Peter are going to hook up on the show unless DL gets killed of, which of course he might, but I don't think so right now - he'd have gotten more screentime.
I also want to buy a Vote Petrelli mug...
I want a Vote Petrelli t-shirt! Re: webcomics, they're not a must, but an interesting addendum. This week's has some intriguing stuff about Future!Hiro, and why he wanted Peter to save Claire.
I won't even speculate on why he didn't just off Sylar/tie him up/SOMETHING while Sylar was unconscious -- obviously Sylar got under his skin too much for him to actually take that step... ;)
Clearly, Sylar wasn't the only one who "wasn't done" yet.
Do we know Nathan's that much older? I've been trying to pin it down, and have anywhere from 7 to 12 years between them...
We don't have on screen canon for Nathan's age; we do for Peter (26, says Mrs. Petrelli in Godsend). Again, if you count the comics you can make a close guess for Nathan, because in the Papa Petrelli meets Linderman tale, called "War Buddies", he has a letter from his wife saying "our son just took his first steps", and that comic is set in 1968. Which would fit with Adrian Pasdar's actual age. But they have room to maneuvre on the show, obviously - I'd say it's at least a decade between the brothers, though.
Re: Rambling reactions
Date: 2007-04-25 01:58 am (UTC)I agree with you that the split isn't her actual ability -- I'm pretty sure the super strength is. I do believe that the horrible things their dad did (hinted at but never actually spelled out; I strongly suspect that there was sexual abuse as well as the general physical violence) to them caused the MPD, and that Niki created the Jessica persona so she didn't have to personally deal with the 'nastier' aspects of things. Jessica is her shield from the ugly parts of the world.
Still, I don't want Peter to get involved with her, because he's got a delicate enough mental balance of his own -- too much push in one direction and he could easily go the way Sylar did. I like him damaged and emo -- I don't want him completely broken.
But, the thought of Peter sometimes manifesting Nathan would be kind of cool :D
Re: their ages, excellent! Even though I usually completely ignore non-canon canon, if the webcomics give us that much info, I'll go with it :D I keep thinking I need to check on the dates of Bosnia, and then I forget to, so I'm going to do that right now! Okay, that was 1995 - 96, and if we go with the (again, non-canon canon) Vote Petrelli website, Nathan went into the Navy after college (and conceivably Law school, because he was a pilot in the Navy, not studying Law, and went into the Prosecutor's office after the Navy), so he'd definitely be somewhere around 36 - 40ish now. Works for me!
and the sequel, due to post lenght limitations:
Date: 2007-04-24 07:37 pm (UTC)Definitely, as their agendas alreay clashed, as when Mr. Bennet and the Haitian tried to kidnap Nathan while Linderman's middle woman simultanously had gone through some trouble to tape him with Niki/Jessica in the same night. Though yes, it might be Thompson is playing his own game, or that it's that thing, confusion in a big adminstration...
Pure speculation here, but I figure Linderman's going to use Micah to rig the election. A little technopathic tweaking here and there, and *poof* Instant winner!
That's my guess as well.
My question is, though, how does a junior Congressman end up "a heartbeat from the Presidency" in two years -- that phrasing is used to refer to the Vice President,
My guess: in the future Isaac painted, he'll play a Rudy Guiliani role after the explosion goes off in New York, thereby achieving nation wide recognition and popularity, and this will get an offer to run with one of the presidential candidates in the next election - 2008 - as his VP; Linderman makes sure the candidate in question wins the election and then Mr. President has an early death by heart attack or something.
Nathan sobbing over Peter -- I have SO MUCH LOVE for this scene!
Me too. He's so utterly broken at that point.
(Also, observe the illustration of Nathan's priorities to Claire here: Peter dead equals "I don't care about elections", Peter alive, otoh, but long lost daughter returned, equals the election are on again. I mean, he does care, but the pecking order is really Peter, then politics and family in competition and politics often winning.)
And oh, Mohinder, please stop making the wrong choices. PLEASE.
Does the man have an unerring instinct for that or what?
Re: and the sequel, due to post lenght limitations:
Date: 2007-04-24 09:03 pm (UTC)That would work. So, at this point we have Linderman's entire plan hinging on NY going boom. If NY doesn't go boom, his plan starts to fall apart and it'll require even more corrupt wrangling to get Nathan where he wants him. Eeek! Let's hope there's a contingency plan that doesn't send Nathan down a completely dark path...
(Also, observe the illustration of Nathan's priorities to Claire here: Peter dead equals "I don't care about elections", Peter alive, otoh, but long lost daughter returned, equals the election are on again. I mean, he does care, but the pecking order is really Peter, then politics and family in competition and politics often winning.)
I LOVE this about him. That, and he has flings with blondes (Meredith, Niki), but his long term relationship is with a woman with dark hair and hazel eyes... One could say he wanted a girl just like Mama Petrelli, but... ;)
Re: Mohinder Does the man have an unerring instinct for that or what?
He's just like Locke! If the two of them ever meet, they'll cause some kind of implosion (maybe that's what happens to NY...)! :D
Re: and the sequel, due to post lenght limitations:
Date: 2007-04-24 09:35 pm (UTC)Indeed. Though I think Linderman does not have a long term hold on Nathan if NY doesn't go boom. I mean, it's not like Nathan was a fan to begin with - by now I think he's unwillingly fascinated, but the man did cripple his wife, which Nathan still feels guilty about for his own unvoluntary share in. Besides, New York NOT going boom will hopefully be partly due to Nathan reconsidering, especially if Hiro tells him how that future will look like. (Nathan is ambitious, not insane.)
That, and he has flings with blondes (Meredith, Niki), but his long term relationship is with a woman with dark hair and hazel eyes... One could say he wanted a girl just like Mama Petrelli, but... ;)
Blue eyes, if you please. Very lovely ones, too. But I read that fanfic as well, you know. *g* Actually I think they don't look that similar, but they certainly all share a physical type, plus note that Heidi gets along with Peter very well (both in flashbacks and present day) and shares at least two attitudes: she obviously adores Nathan but has no problem calling him on his bullshit (in Nothing to Hide during the pre-brunch conversation).
He's just like Locke! If the two of them ever meet, they'll cause some kind of implosion (maybe that's what happens to NY...)! :
LOL. I beg to differ, though. Locke has a similar talent for making the wrong choices for himself, but he's way smarter with other people's choices (and other people's problems), a talent Mohinder has yet to reveal, AND he's great with survival.
Re: and the sequel, due to post lenght limitations:
Date: 2007-04-25 02:17 am (UTC)They're blue? *pokes old VCR recorder* I could tell they were a lighter colour, but didn't know they were actually blue. They are lovely, though :D (And I actually came up with the theory independent of the story, but yes, I saw that one too *g*)
I do like Heidi, though, and I like her relationship with Nathan and Peter. I hope that their relationship doesn't end up hurting her...
LOL. I beg to differ, though. Locke has a similar talent for making the wrong choices for himself, but he's way smarter with other people's choices (and other people's problems), a talent Mohinder has yet to reveal, AND he's great with survival.
LOL -- this is true. Although Locke may have been somewhat less helpful to his friends recently. I'm impatiently awaiting the next episode he appears in to see what the hell he's been up to... But he is much better at survival than Mohinder. Um. So far. Well, um... he's too stubborn to die?
Electoral methods
Date: 2007-04-24 11:39 pm (UTC)And then he's a heartbeat away.
The 'future' we're to be shown next week is 5 years after 'now' -- meaning 2 years as Congresscritter and then up to 3 years in the White House, either as second-fiddle or top banana.
Re: Electoral methods
Date: 2007-04-25 01:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-04-24 08:23 pm (UTC)I LOVE your analysis of Nathan & Peter interaction. I was thinking about this in vague terms while I was watching last night, then the whole thing just gelled as I read your post, into a kind of horrified fascination. The episode next week appears to be dealing with the fallout of Nathan making that *wrong* choice, which should be very interesting indeed.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-24 09:01 pm (UTC)With shades-of-grey characters, it's interesting how different shows play it: sometimes the ability to love someone is used as a short cut to making the right choices. Not with Nathan. Loving Peter can just as well equal the completely wrong choice...
no subject
Date: 2007-04-24 08:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-04-24 09:02 pm (UTC)