Heroes 1.20 Five Years Gone
May. 1st, 2007 12:45 pmFirstly, kudos to
(BTW, Mohinder, despite coming through at the end? Still pretty and incredibly dumb and a villain magnet of the first order. Though he could be forgiven for not figuring out it was his old psychopathic stalker of doom if Matt never bothered to read the President's thoughts.)
Okay, more serious now: that was an awesome and very dark future episode, as advertised. Future!Hiro was tragic and heartbreaking in his guilt and determination, and oh, his grief for Ando. And yes, losing Ando would be the thing to rob him of his innocence and joy. Oh, Hiro. (Also: wonderful Hiro and Ando scenes in that one.)
Niki has integrated/lost Jessica in the future, as I speculated, and her and Peter as guilt-stricken grieving survivors coming together made sense to me.
Greatest twist, other than the Sylar-as-Nathan reveal: the way they played us regarding the exploding man. Future!Hiro saying it had been Sylar was believable in that Sylar has probably (in the current timeline) far more powers than Peter by now and could just as well explode. In theory. In practice, he never showed any signs of leaking, as opposed to Peter's coma. And of course Nathan would lie and blame the explosion on Sylar to protect Peter, thereby incidentally settling his own and everyone else's doom as Sylar was free to move around as a consequence. (Not the only thing Nathan is responsible for in this time line, obviously, but we'll get to that.) And you know what the most awful thing is? Present!Hiro still thinks it's Sylar. (Unless Future!Peter has told Ando the truth, but I doubt it. Telling Niki did look too much like the first time he confessed this.) So he still won't be able to stop this from happening even if he manages to kill Sylar; well, he'll be able to prevent Sylar from posing as Nathan and committing genocide, but not the initial New York explosion, nor the initial hunt for "dangerous" mutants. In this timeline, Nathan obviously did go through with following Linderman's advice, and he went through with the first outlawing of the specials as terrorists as well (as Sylar aquired his illusionist gift from Candice, and Candice was listed as a refuge in the Bennet-Hiro conversation; we don't know, of course, when Sylar killed Candice).
Speculation: so we'll have two plot threads culminating in the finale - the hunt for Sylar on the one hand, carried out by Hiro, and the Peter exploding-or-not thread on the other, which will be focused on the Petrellis.
Of the characters still around, Matt has fallen the deepest in the future, and wow, Greg Grunberg brings on the bitter-and-hard.
Future!Claire: reunited with Mr. Bennet even in disguise, which is sweet, but otherwise we did not, alas, see much of her; she was mainly used for the great climactic Sylar reveal, and a great scene it was, too. But otoh, we did get to see integrated Niki, so I'm not having gender issues.
Future!Peter: knowing himself to be the cause of the explosion apparantly both avoided his brother and spent the years in guilt-ridden brooding. Is, however, far quicker on the uptake than Mohinder, as he immediately realizes the implication of "Nathan" using DL's power. But is not, as opposed to what people speculated based upon the promo, the leader of a rebel army; hanging out with Hiro he might have been, but there is no sign he was involved in any underground activities before this episode. At the end, he and Sylar looked as if they were both about to use Ted's power, which would result in another nuclear blast through NY, so, cause of the apocalypse twice over. And oh, Petrelli priorities. "You'll pay what you did to Nathan! What you did in his name!" (You know, you'd think the other way around would be more - but I really love them for it, the dysfunctional duo.) And then Sylar gets the last verbal blow with "he had already turned on his own kind" which Future!Peter doesn't want to believe. Again, speculation that in the present timeline and with or without the comic Hiro has now with him, Present!Peter will realize that Nathan is capable of going that dark (not genocidal dark, but homeland security act outlawing mutants dark), and Present!Nathan will have the chance to make another choice by the resulting confrontation.
Lastly: was that dream of Peter's in Fallout wherein Nathan turns into Sylar genius foreshadowing or what?
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Date: 2007-05-01 02:03 pm (UTC)Great episode. I enjoyed the everlovin' angst out of it.
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Date: 2007-05-01 02:15 pm (UTC)Peter: very hot. Though Nathan's more my type (when not being Sylar) in general. I fully expect this future to be the Heroes equivalent of the Wishverse, fanfic wise, i.e. a goldmine that shall often be revisited by fandom.
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Date: 2007-05-01 02:32 pm (UTC)FWIW, I had the impression that Sylar had absorbed some power that kept Matt from being able to read him -- a point they definitely should've clarified, but that makes perfect sense to me.
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Date: 2007-05-01 02:36 pm (UTC)Quite, and the relief in the "this makes total sense" kind of way.
FWIW, I had the impression that Sylar had absorbed some power that kept Matt from being able to read him -- a point they definitely should've clarified, but that makes perfect sense to me.
Good point, and yes, there's probably a mutant around who can block thoughts.
But that doesn't excuse Mohinder, who has the doubtful privilege of having lived in close proximity to Sylar for a while, so if anyone should be able to spot Sylar-in-disguise again...
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Date: 2007-05-01 07:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-02 12:47 am (UTC)All the same: no killing off Nathan in "our" timeline, show, please! Keep that to the canon AU.
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Date: 2007-05-02 06:27 am (UTC)Word!! :D
If Nathan dies, I will be VERY upset.
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Date: 2007-05-02 12:51 am (UTC)Now, the only person on the show who calls Peter "Pete" now and then is Nathan, and Sylar is deliberately taunting Peter with the nickname here. To me, that indicates that Sylar didn't just kill him, he must have stalked him for a while (in another disguise) to learn such details, and it must have been before Peter and Nathan broke off contact, so Sylar could observe this...
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Date: 2007-05-02 06:30 am (UTC)This... oh, I can imagine Sylar following Nathan around, learning how to be him, studying his every move and every nuance. He would have known that being Nathan would get him the power he needed, and... Gods, I could see him killing Candice so he'd have the shape changing ability, then taking on the form of Nathan's chief of staff or assistant... Eeek! *down, plotbunnies, down!*
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Date: 2007-05-02 08:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-02 05:39 pm (UTC)You... ouch... oh gods... And you know, he did. He had to...
*is buried with plotbunnies*
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Date: 2007-05-02 07:42 pm (UTC)...and you know that's why Sylar later knows he can taunt Peter by using "Pete" as a form of address. Also, while they're busy with their showdown of lightning effects, Sylar would have tried to distract Peter by telling him just how he killed Nathan....
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Date: 2007-05-03 06:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-01 11:39 pm (UTC)I feel like such an idiot, because it took me until about two seconds before they actually said it to figure this out! I just kept thinking, "Wow, I knew Nathan was an ass, but that's amazingly cold, even for him..." I blame the clever "Sylar exploded and died" mislead, which it never occurred to me to question. It retrospect, of course, it seems as if it should have been blindingly obvious. :)
BTW, Mohinder, despite coming through at the end? Still pretty and incredibly dumb and a villain magnet of the first order.
Dude really does just keep making the same mistakes over and over, doesn't he? Sigh. Stop trying to help, Mohinder, 'kay?
And yes, losing Ando would be the thing to rob him of his innocence and joy.
I imagine failing to actually be the hero and save the city had a lot to do with it, too, poor guy. That's got to be seriously disillusioning. But I did like the recognition of Ando's importance to him. Hiro & Ando, OTF! :)
I'll tell ya, this show has got me excited in ways I don't think a TV program has for years.
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Date: 2007-05-02 12:44 am (UTC)Dude really does just keep making the same mistakes over and over, doesn't he? Sigh. Stop trying to help, Mohinder, 'kay?
They should keep him around as an unfailing detector. If Mohinder trusts someone, that someone can't be up to any good, and one of the other heroes should take the someone out immediately.*veg*
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Date: 2007-05-02 12:56 am (UTC)Yes, he did seem different, just a little off. But, of course, it was five years in the future and everybody had changed...
The fact that Nathan keeping the fact that it was actually Peter a secret is just as believable when you think it's Nathan and when you know it's Sylar also helps the misdirect work, too.
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Date: 2007-05-02 01:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-02 04:59 am (UTC)Heh, I'm resisting crowing about it, but I'm very amused that on the commentary, the actors are all like, "Do you think they're figured it out? How could they possibly??" Oh, guys, you underestimate our level of obsession.
But is not, as opposed to what people speculated based upon the promo, the leader of a rebel army; hanging out with Hiro he might have been, but there is no sign he was involved in any underground activities before this episode.
Have you read this week's comic yet? Peter was definitely involved in the rebel army, although it looks like Hiro was the leader and Peter was just the go-to guy. Anyway, I think the army has been disbanded. Niki says they lost the war, and it was probably several months ago, if not a year or longer.
At the end, he and Sylar looked as if they were both about to use Ted's power, which would result in another nuclear blast through NY, so, cause of the apocalypse twice over. And oh, Petrelli priorities.
I actually thought Sylar was finally displaying the ice power, while Peter whipped out Meredith's fire. There are definitely flames coming from Peter's hands, as opposed to the balls of energy Ted has.
And then Sylar gets the last verbal blow with "he had already turned on his own kind" which Future!Peter doesn't want to believe.
Sylar, crazily enough, gave him hope. He didn't have to believe that Nathan would do all these evil things, would betray him. Nope. it was Sylar alllllll along.
Lastly: was that dream of Peter's in Fallout wherein Nathan turns into Sylar genius foreshadowing or what?
Yes, it so was. I love their opportunistic plotting. "Let's do something freaky and cool!" three months later, "Hey, remember that freaky cool thing? I found a way to intregrate it!"
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Date: 2007-05-02 05:28 am (UTC)Oh, crow away. You earned it!
comic: I hadn't read it when I wrote this review, but I have read it by now, and so he was.
I actually thought Sylar was finally displaying the ice power, while Peter whipped out Meredith's fire. There are definitely flames coming from Peter's hands, as opposed to the balls of energy Ted has.
Upon rewatching... yep, you're right. Means Peter must have met Meredith at some point - when they were still fighting the good fight? Which reminds me, didn't Kring say we'd see more of Meredith next season, or is that hearsay?
Sylar, crazily enough, gave him hope. He didn't have to believe that Nathan would do all these evil things, would betray him. Nope. it was Sylar alllllll along.
Yes, it was such am emotional whipslash in those final minutes - the realisation that Nathan is dead and killed by Sylar leading Peter immediately to the conclusion that then it had to have been Sylar all the time, and then he goes Inigo Montoya on him. Oh, Peter. Ah, Petrellis.
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Date: 2007-05-02 05:41 am (UTC)They said they wanted her back, but that's not really definite. I don't see why the actress would refuse, though, especially since it wouldn't be a very large commitment. Between Meredith, and older gen flashbacks, next season is so going to be the season of back story!
Yes, it was such am emotional whipslash in those final minutes - the realisation that Nathan is dead and killed by Sylar leading Peter immediately to the conclusion that then it had to have been Sylar all the time, and then he goes Inigo Montoya on him. Oh, Peter. Ah, Petrellis.
Poor Peter. Although his (deluded) belief in Nathan seemed like a flash of our very own co-dependent emo boy. :)
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Date: 2007-05-02 06:06 am (UTC)Poor Peter. Although his (deluded) belief in Nathan seemed like a flash of our very own co-dependent emo boy. :)
Which actually deepens my suspicion they might be going for a RotJ finale again, because this timeline came to be in part because Nathan didn't live up to Peter's belief, so the alternate would be if he manages to. Am torn between storytelling and wanting to keep my beloved characters around, damm it!
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Date: 2007-05-02 06:21 am (UTC)I started to get scared again that they would kill Nathan, so I had to chant to myseld that he's too big a goldmine of plots to kill. I think what will happen is a compromise between complete redemption and complete dark side. He'll come close to allowing the explosion to happen, maybe interfering in a way that proves fruitless, or messing with the plan and then trying to fix it (in such a way that only Peter knows what he's done, of course). It won't be enough so that he's definitely on the path to evil, but he'll still be around and beholden to Linderman -- who, of course, can always tighten the noose at any point by healing Heidi.
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Date: 2007-05-02 06:35 am (UTC)That would be my preferred scenario, and would, as you say, be a goldmine for future plots.
Linderman: given the importance of backstory next season, it never occured to me that he could die until I remembered one nasty rl thing: Malcolm McDowell = expensive. (Also, Niki-Jessica = currently v. v. motivated to rip him apart if she catches up with him.) I could see him dying in the finale and still be a part of the show via the flashbacks and a younger actor whom they don't have to pay as much. But, otoh, if he lives then definitely so will Nathan, as none of the other heroes has a reason NOT to kill him...
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Date: 2007-05-02 07:12 am (UTC)Oh, damn. Linderman dying hadn't even occurred to me. I just assumed he'd survive but work through proxy most of the time, again. Maybe his wife, who is supposed to be a character (at some point, I don't remember if it was supposed to be this season or not).
I think Linderman had to have survived in the alternafuture, at least for a while. I get the feeling that he probably arranged the assassination of whoever Nathan was the VP under, and then got their version of the Patriot Act named after him in thanks (or memorial).
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Date: 2007-05-02 08:39 am (UTC)I thought of it because of the rumours Z. Q. got signed on for the next season. Because if for whatever reason Sylar does not die in the finale, then, let's face it, some villain has to. Which leaves Thompson and Linderman. Thompson is not important enough to cut it.
I think Linderman had to have survived in the alternafuture, at least for a while. I get the feeling that he probably arranged the assassination of whoever Nathan was the VP under, and then got their version of the Patriot Act named after him in thanks (or memorial).
That was my guess as well; that, though it's a bit questionable how Nathan would sell this to the public, given Linderman's mobster reputation. But then, this is tv reality.*g*
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Date: 2007-05-02 10:31 am (UTC)True. But at the same time, if any of the villains could be killed and then brought back, it's Sylar. They could bring in Future!Sylar from the alternate timeline (just assume he killed Peter, and then teleported to the past), or just not have them properly find the body. Or have someone who can bring back the dead. Great for sweeps!
If Linderman dies, they can replace him with his wife, but it won't be quite so cool (probably) . As much as I love Sylar, he's not a sustainable villain the way Linderman is.
That was my guess as well; that, though it's a bit questionable how Nathan would sell this to the public, given Linderman's mobster reputation. But then, this is tv reality.*g*
Americans are scarily blase about shady business men. Sex scandals, otoh ...
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Date: 2007-05-02 10:41 am (UTC)Point. He's VampWillow!
As much as I love Sylar, he's not a sustainable villain the way Linderman is.
Indeed. Shady pullstringers who started out as idealists are far more interesting antagonists than brain munching psychopaths, long term wise.
Americans are scarily blase about shady business men. Sex scandals, otoh ...
In other words, the way to defeat either Nathan or Sylathan would have been to release Linderman's tape of Nathan and Jessica?
(Yes, yes, I know; that might have brought Nathan-or-Sylar-as-Nathan down, but would not have solved the problem of the registration acts and ensuing disasters due to popular support of same and climate of fear, as most politicians would jump on that band wagon.)
(If Nathan doesn't get killed off, that might be his long term redemption: risking the unpopular thing and block the registration acts, because you know that even with a stopped explosion in New York, people are so going to freak out about the superpower thing... And Peter will probably have to guilt trip him into it by a devastating look once he realizes how close Nathan came to evil overlorddom.)
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Date: 2007-05-02 10:48 am (UTC)Oh yeah. While outing Claire as his illegitimate daughter.
(If Nathan doesn't get killed off, that might be his long term redemption: risking the unpopular thing and block the registration acts, because you know that even with a stopped explosion in New York, people are so going to freak out about the superpower thing... And Peter will probably have to guilt trip him into it by a devastating look once he realizes how close Nathan came to evil overlorddom.)
I want this plot so much! Killing Nathan is just wrong, writers! Don't do it!
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Date: 2007-05-03 07:36 pm (UTC)I never even thought of the foreshadowing! Interesting.
And yeah, Mr. Bennet and Claire... it was actually a little sad,atleast I thought so, and yet realistic. What confused me though was - did the events of Company Man happen in this ornot? Because if they did, you'd think Claire would be more receptive to her father. Then again, being forced into hiding is going to confusethe best of us.
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Date: 2007-05-03 07:51 pm (UTC)Company Man: I'm assuming they did - since Claire is around, as opposed to having died in Odessa - but we don't know what happened afterwards and in the intervening five years. Given her choice of alias, I'll make an educated guess and say that Mrs. Bennet is dead, and Claire took the name Sandra in memory of her mother. If Mrs. Bennet died, say, because of the long-term results of the constant memory wipes, it could be something to stand betwen Claire and Mr. Bennet. (Yes, it was the Company which had orderd the mindwipes, but it had been his choice to work for them to begin with, and he had accepted their policy on families; protecting Claire as a reason didn't factor in until later.)
(Just one possiblity that I thought of; or it could be just the strain from constant life in disguise...)
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