Our Friends in the North, Who recs, and a Potter link

[selenak]

I finished watching Our Friends in the North, the nine-parts British tv series starring Christopher Eccleston and Daniel Craig. It's covers thirty one years - 1964 - 1995 -, the fates of four characters, Nicky (Eccleston), Geordie (Craig), Mary (Gina McKee) and Tosker (Mark Strong), the development of Britain in general and the Labour party specifically during those years. By and large, it succeeds brilliantly, managing to make the minor characters as vivid as the major ones and tying the politics to the emotional development of the main characters in a way that makes sense.



I do have a few nitpicks: the one instance where this fails and where I think the series is chickening out is that you don't really get a sense of New Labour in the final chapter, "1995". This is especially startling in contrast to the episode "1979" where the defeat of the Labour party and the rise of the Tories under Thatcher is very personal indeed, and you can also see why it happens both in the general sense and because of the specific character who goes down here. Story logic would have demanded that one of the four symbolizes New Labour in the end, both in the ditching of core issues of Old Labour and the success. I get that they tried to tie this with Mary by making her son accuse her of New-Labour-ness at one point, but it doesn't hold up by the narrative; she's essentially saying and doing the same things she did in previous episodes and indeed is the only one of the four whom we never see giving up some of her integrity.

My other nitpick isn't really one, but: I do regret we never saw anything of Austin Donahue after he went to prison. I mean, it wasn't necessary narratively, the last scene with him and Nicky in which compromised Austin reinspires righteous (and often self-righteous) Nicky was a great note to go out on and wrapped up their relationship, but I liked the character immensely.

Speaking of Nicky: I think I broke my Christopher Eccleston curse. The curse being that enthusiasm about his characters tends to be so wild that I always feel faintly pressured to like them more than I actually do. Here, Nicky is a member of the ensemble and the narrative makes no bones when he's being a dick (and no, not in a "cool" way), and lo and behold, I liked him very much indeed. At first I thought he was yet another variation of Eccleston's "intense, angry Northerner" act, but as it turned out, this wasn't the case; I don't think it's a coincidence, though, that I warmed up to Nicky the more subdued and subtle he got in the later episodes, as opposed to the earlier ones where he's being Angry Notherner Extraordinaire.

Daniel Craig as Geordie is amazing; the whole going-to-the-dogs thing pulled off in a not prettyfying or romantisizing way, and yet you never stop caring. I'm in two minds whether or not the writer, Peter Flannery, used the whole plot with Frankie Barrett the Soho crime lord (played by Malcolm McDowell, no less) as a critique of the whole cult of male comraderie, considering Barrett gives Geordie the whole "that woman is no good, only men know true loyalty" speech and promptly sells him out to the police, making Geordie's choice of male loyalty the biggest mistake of his life; but otoh, the show as a whole has a lot of male friendships and no female ones; even male-female friendships are rare, considering Mary is married first to one and then to the other of the guys and hardly has any interaction at all with the third.

Other than Austin Donahue, I think my favourite minor character was butter-wouldn't-melt-in-her-mouth Conservative MP Claudia Seabrook (standing in for the Thatcher era), being a great variation of the Iron Butterfly principle and never a caricature or incompetent. (Always a danger if a writer tackles characters with different convictions from himself.)

Lastly: you have to suspend disbelief majorly during the first episode when the lads are supposd to be barely 20, because Eccleston and Craig, not so much; once they arrive in the 1970s, the Seventies bad hair paradoxically makes them look younger than they did in the 60s get-up...


***

Yet more Dr. Who fanfic recs:

Fire and Drums: another great Doctor pov during the phone scene, and from the same writer, an Master pov of the final scene of the episode: Relentless

Also very much worth reading: Inextricable.

***

Was very amused by this preview of the Order of the Phoenix movie because the commentator clearly hasn't read the book (for God's sake, woman, Luna Lovegood isn't Harry's love interest), but the tiny glimpse at the Occlumency scene with Harry and Snape is fab.

Comments

[teh-no.livejournal.com]

(for God's sake, woman, Luna Lovegood isn't Harry's love interest)

Everyone's a shipper these days.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

True.*g*

[kathyh]

I liked the character immensely.

Alun Armstrong, who played the part, is one of my favourite actors. We saw him play Sweeney Todd in a production of Sondheim's musical and he was extraordinary in the part.

Story logic would have demanded that one of the four symbolizes New Labour in the end, both in the ditching of core issues of Old Labour and the success.

I think you were supposed to equate Mary with New Labour but I agree that it doesn't hold up particularly well. At the point that the series was made though New Labour had yet to win the General Election so was still a bit of an unknown quantity.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Alun Armstrong, who played the part, is one of my favourite actors. We saw him play Sweeney Todd in a production of Sondheim's musical and he was extraordinary in the part.

I can imagine!

At the point that the series was made though New Labour had yet to win the General Election so was still a bit of an unknown quantity.

Ah, I see. But still, surely Blairish slickness and "cool Britannia" and all that was present in the media?

[kathyh]

There may have been hints of it, but on nothing like the scale of the slickness that was reached once Blair came to power. I think "cool Britannia" was later certainly. In 1996 we were still in the era of John Major, complete with warm beer and cricket loving.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Speaking of Nicky: I think I broke my Christopher Eccleston curse. The curse being that enthusiasm about his characters tends to be so wild that I always feel faintly pressured to like them more than I actually do.

Funny how everyone seems to have one of these, she says, wearily. Only that mine started out as liking his Cracker character rather a lot and thus suffering from the apparently legendary CI-Bilborough-Death-Scene trauma, and then developed into what you are describing here roughly at the time when he was announced as the new Doctor Who. Alas, I've never seen Our Friends In The North, although it sounds like something I should definitely check out.

I see your Who recs and raise you a Harry/Lucy one (http://fangrrl-squees.livejournal.com/75641.html), that manages not to describe her as a uncharacteristically ditzy Hitchcock heroine. Be adviced though that it is a tad on the cracky side. :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

thus suffering from the apparently legendary CI-Bilborough-Death-Scene trauma,

Ah yes. Way to extend a death scene to put your viewers through the emotional treadmill. And yes, check out Our Friends in the North.

Harry/Lucy story: am amused and so can see that.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

And yes, check out Our Friends in the North.

Will do as soon as I've gotten through all the Simm related stuff (whom I actually first encountered on Cracker, interestingly enough. Also, he seems to be joined at the hip to Philip Glenister, who shows up in every other series Simm is in)

Harry/Lucy story: am amused and so can see that.

Well, there is nothing that spells true love like helping your future wife's ailing father... I *do* like your icon, btw.

Also, I'm half as obsessed with John Simm as this comment might sound, honestly.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Also, he seems to be joined at the hip to Philip Glenister, who shows up in every other series Simm is in

LOL. I loved the first series of Life on Mars, liked the second one but have serious issues with the finale. Glenister plays the more flamboyant, attention-catching character there, but Simm really carries the show, and it's such a different role from dear Harry Saxon that this alone showcases his versatility. The funny thing is that while I really felt for his LoM character, I never found him attractive there. It must be the different accent and the evilness, clearly!

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

I have seen the first series, actually. I have certain issues with the show: on the one hand I find it very well done, on the other I'm not too hot on the 1970s, and I have seen too many cop shows in my time to find the individual episode plots very original (I am aware that they are hardly the most important part of the show, but they bugged me a little). I'm planning to watch Series Two at some point, though from what I've heard of the finale, I'm not sure I'll like the direction they'll go in.

I loved Sam's story arc, though, and I really found it amusing how many actors I knew from other shows kept popping up (mostly the Hornblower films, if you've ever seen those. Incidentally, they were also my first impression of Glenister). As for the attractiveness, that worked already on LOM, but the Master has an extra edge, certainly. :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Haven't seen the Hornblower films because it's inevitable to be on lj and not to know that there is a Gary Stu original character in them named Archie Kennedy who definitely is not in the novels. Which is a bit hypocritical of me, because there are definitely film versions who take far greater liberties and which I love, but I read the Hornblower novels as a child (my father is a big C.S. Forrester fan), and though Im not wildly fannish, I'm attached enough to childhood memories to mumble "Kennedy? who is this ursurper? BUSH is Hornblower's best friend!" and to stay away.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

...but...but... Archie is played by Jamie Bamber! In blonde! With a Brit accent!
Hee. Seriously, I definitely know what you mean: to this day, I refuse to watch the movie version of Possession, because they turned the lead American. And don't let me get started on the movie version of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. What on earth did these freaks do to my Mina!? Ahem. Anyway.

To defend the Hornblower movies a little, Archie isn't really a Gary Stu, more like the sidekick who is allowed to make the kinds of mistakes and say the kind of stuff Horatio himself can't. And he has to be rescued a lot - you can see why that and being pretty makes him a popular character.
And Bush does turn up eventually, in film 6, I think - and to get all of this back to Doctor Who, he is played by Paul McGann...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

And don't let me get started on the movie version of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. What on earth did these freaks do to my Mina!? Ahem. Anyway.

As soon as I read advance interviews where they talked about the necessity of change with Mina's and Quatermain's roles because "can you see Sean Connery deferring to a woman?" I knew I'd never watch that travesty.

And Bush does turn up eventually, in film 6, I think - and to get all of this back to Doctor Who, he is played by Paul McGann...

Then, if I should get around to watching them, I'll start with 6. Isn't that where the Kennedy creature gets killed off anyway?

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

As soon as I read advance interviews where they talked about the necessity of change with Mina's and Quatermain's roles because "can you see Sean Connery deferring to a woman?" I knew I'd never watch that travesty.

*blinks* Wow, I'm so grateful to live in enlightened times, you know. *goes to smash head against TARDIS*

Then, if I should get around to watching them, I'll start with 6. Isn't that where the Kennedy creature gets killed off anyway?

*looks up* McGann first appears in what seems to be the second series, that is, his first movie is Mutiny (episode 5) and then he appears in the remaining three (of which I have only seen episode 6 - indeed the one where Kennedy kicks the bucket).

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

Flannery originally wrote it as a stage play in 1982, and I think it went only as far as the return of the Tories. He updated it to 1995 for the television version, but since Blair didn't become leader until July 1994 he probably didn't have enough material to go on. I don't see Mary as New Labour; I find her final scene with Anthony very powerful, but for her attack on her as a person, not a politician. If Flannery had been writing a few years later, he'd probably have worked a new character in, or maybe had Tosker undergo a conversion.

Claudia's a good character, but I think my favourites outside the leads are Cockburn and Conrad, the "good" policemen who lose the fight to clean up the Met. Of course, it helps that they're played by two of my favourite actors, Trevor Cooper and Danny Webb.

And thank you for probably the first opportunity I've ever had to use this icon on-topic, rather than as a comment on myself.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I don't see Mary as New Labour; I find her final scene with Anthony very powerful, but for her attack on her as a person, not a politician.

That, however, wasn't the scene I was referring to - I was thinking of their earlier scene, the meeting about Sean the carstealing boy, where he goes off in a rant on how she sounds like Claudia Seabrock and how Labour people now all sound like Tories. I took that as a hint we're supposed to see Mary having become New Labour, but it just doesn't fit with everything else we see her do or say.

Cockburn and Conrad are great, too. I was sorry we didn't see them any more in the last episodes.

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

No, I assumed you meant an earlier scene, and I remember he kept ranting at her about the Collins boy. But those scenes didn't hit home for me, whereas the final one did. Perhaps he's attacking her with misdirected political weapons earlier on, but only finds the honesty to tell her the real reasons for his anger at the end, after he's confronted the failure of his marriage.

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

I've given up expecting anything from the Harry Potter movies--they just grate on me unbearably. I *am* looking forward to Book 7, though. :-)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Me too. I'll be offline on the day itself, though, so I don't get spoiled!

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

I'm looking forward to the wank almost as much as the book itself. It's going to be hilarious.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

You are brave indeed. I have never taken more than a glimpse at the internet HP fandom, as what I've seen of them scares me to death, and I don't think I'd want to see the wank that might ensue. (I apologize humbly if you feel like a part of HP internet fandom, and offer my long-standing membership in VM fandom as a compensation for any offense I might cause.)

And I think Slytherin might actually have kicked out Nathan after the finale.

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

I'm not in HP fandom as such: as in, I don't read fanfic or participate in meta discussions or post at messageboards. It's not really a "deep, thinky thoughts" kind of fandom for me. But I do enjoy the wank. Most of it's so unbelievably wacky and insane that it can keep me amused for hours on end. You should have seen the uproar after Rowling's 3-part interview with Emerson (of Mugglenet) and Melissa (of The Leaky Cauldron) came out last year. It was to die for.

I've finally decided that I'm going to have to start posting in my LJ, and one of my first posts is probably going to be "The Sorting Hat: Heroes Style." I tried to kid myself that I'd just use my LJ as a reading list, which was all well and good when I wasn't really involved in any single fandom, but Heroes has well and truly sucked me in.

IMO, Nathan's on the way to getting kicked out of Slytherin, but he's not there yet. (And personally, I hope he won't get there for a while.)

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

You should have seen the uproar after Rowling's 3-part interview with Emerson (of Mugglenet) and Melissa (of The Leaky Cauldron) came out last year. It was to die for.

I may have glimpsed some of that on Fandom_Wank... I somehow mostly seem to catch the wanks that are less amusing rather than uncomfortable, like the one about Blaise Zabini's oh-so controversial skin colour. (Like I said to selenak above, it's so great that we live in enlightened times.)

I've finally decided that I'm going to have to start posting in my LJ

Welcome to the Dark Side! *g* It's quite comfy here, actually.

As for Heroes fandom, I don't think I'm entirely out yet, but I'm certainly migrating - I moved from TWOP on to more or less exclusively lj, and here I mostly talk to smaller groups of people rather than fandom at large, but that simply suits me best, I think. Heroes is probably the first show for which I am actively seeking out fanfiction.

IMO, Nathan's on the way to getting kicked out of Slytherin, but he's not there yet. (And personally, I hope he won't get there for a while.)

Blame it on the fact that I probably see Slytherin in a slightly different light: I never get the feeling that they are really about ambition as much as about maintaining the societal status quo. While the Sorting Hat was thinking about putting Harry into Slytherin, I don't think we've ever really seen any Slytherin students who are not from old wizarding, "pureblooded" aristocracy - except for Tom Riddle and Snape, who has at least partly a lower class background (do I remember this correctly?), but they are both special cases and singled out as such. So, what would get Nathan out then, would not be the fact that he committed a selfless act, but the fact that he conspired with the rabble, in this case his already rebellious brother and his less-than-appropriate daughter.

But be it as it may, I think Nathan and Bennet should take over Hufflepuff and revamp it as the home of cunning badassness. A little on the darker side, but still without the classist tendencies, if you will.

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

I think part of the problem with the House System is that Rowling herself isn't really clear on what she wants to do with it. What she *says* the Houses represent is very different from the way they come across in the books, IMO.

Tom Riddle was descended from upper-class Muggles on his father's side and fallen aristocrats on his mother's side (living in poverty, but descended from one of the original Hogwarts founders). We haven't got nearly as much information on Snape, but I think it's fair to say that his family wasn't particularly well off.

[shezan.livejournal.com]

I have OFITN but haven't watched it yet. Have you seen "The Tudors"?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Yes, I have. Alas, the only really good thing in it is Cardinal Wolsey, who's also the only complex character, with Thomas More making a noble effort to same, too. But otherwise, Michael Hirst really really should stay away from the history flicks (he wrote Elizabeth, too) and write fantasy.

[shezan.livejournal.com]

Wolsey is utterly marvellous, with Sam Neil really giving a superb, layered, complex performance. More is interesting but I fear Jeremy Northam, who was lovely in Gosford Park, can't quite carry it off - I don't believe in him burning "heretics". (Northam would have been a very, very interesting Bertie Wooster; I don't like the Fry & Laurie version at all; it's too broad a caricature.) And shurely Jonathan Rhys Meyers is too, too, too pretty for words? He manages to convey nicely menace and frustration, too.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Sorry. JRM's prettiness and ability to convey menace and frustration does not make up for the fact the script somehow managed to make Henry plus court (with the exception of Wolsey & more) dull. Plus I never for a single moment believe he's Henry; I might if they had had the courage to let him be pretty only in the first episode and then let him go fatter and fatter, but no. Cowards.

No: give me Charles Laughton, Keith Mitchell or Richard Burton any time over that. (Very different interpretations, all three of them, but all three way more interesting and believable.)

Now, if I want to see JRM play an interesting character, I watch Gormenghast.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Just waving to say I got the Heroes disc. Thank you!

And while I'm not that fannish about HP, I thought the theatrical trailer for OotP looked fantastic, so I'm excited.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh, good!

Same here re: HP.