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selenak: (Old School by khall_stuff)
[personal profile] selenak
It wasn't all Heroes, all the time for me this last week; I also caught up on some Old School Who and watched the Sarah Jane Adventures. The later are delightful, though not producing much in the way of meta thought in me beyond "I love Sarah Jane, the kids are terrific, wow, Rusty really has it in for nuns, oh, that scene with Sarah and the old lady was poignant".

Then there was Battlefield, one of the Seventh Doctor adventures I hadn't watched yet, and The Aztecs, a First Doctor adventure recommended by a lot of people, and now that I've seen it, I know why.



Not one of the era's highlights, but it does have some good character moments, plus I'll never get tired of watching Seven and Ace together. The star of the story, though, was unquestionably the Brigadier. I understand this was his last tv outing (so far?), and a good one it was. The meeting between him and the Doctor, the instant recognition on the Brig's side ("who else could it be?"), that affectionate smile exchanged: just lovely. And he brought Bessie! Awwwww. Having just rewatched a Third Doctor adventure, I felt ridiculously mushy about that dammed car, and so did Seven, apparently. I mean, he was practically all over it. Are we sure he didn't cheat on the TARDIS with Bessie while he was confined to Earth as Three?

Doris the Brigadier's wife, despite little screen time, came across as likeable and real, and bonus points to the show for not just giving her that predictable scene in the beginning (wife seeing husband off to one last adventure) but that great turnaround at the end where Doris heads off with Ace and Branberra and leaves the Brig to make dinner.

Speaking of Winifred Branberra aka the new Brigadier, though, she was a bit too much of a caricature of a tough woman, though again, giving UNIT a female leader as Our Alastair's successor is appreciated. Still, I had to restrain myself from rolling my eyes at the scenes with her and Ancelyn.

Then there was the whole Arthurian concept, which, well. Worked in parts and in parts so not. The Doctor as Merlin, only he doesn't know it yet - nice idea, especially given the variation of the myth where Merlin lives backwards. Ace pulling out the sword while everyone else is busy posturing, and the whole implication that "Arthur" is now everybody taking up the cause; also a commendable twist. But the writer clearly couldn't work out whether he wanted Morgan to be your standard fantasy evil sorceress or an honorable warrior queen, so the characterisation switched between both. On the one hand, she gets the muwahhaaahhaaa laughter scenes and the talon nails, on the other, the respect for the fallen dead and arranging (and keeping) honorable truces with the Brigadier, whom she respects. On the one hand, she does the casual unnessary killing of bystanders (the UNIT pilot), on the other hand, she heals the innkeeper's wife from blindness just because. Now if this was all meant to keep Morgan ambiguous I'd applaud it, but as I said, it rather comes across as inconsistent. One thing about Morgan that does come across as deliberate: her reaction to the "Arthur is dead and has been for a thousand years" news, showing that in fact she loved Arthur. It's not mentioned in the episode, but I take it this version of Morgan and the late Arthur were brother and sister, too, which means Ben what's his name who wrote this storyline did not shy away from the incest part of the Arthurian lore.

(Also, the Morgan/Arthur backstory indicated here makes her a parallel to the more recent variation of the Master.)

Something that was of interest to me continuity wise: after School Reunion aired, there were complaints both Sarah Jane and Rose were demeaned by the writer having them react with competitiveness and bickering to each other before they bond over laughing at the Doctor. In Battlefield, you have the precedent of Old Companion Meets New Companion, in the form of the Brigadier and Ace meeting, and guess what? There is bickering. There is competitiveness. There is the Brigadier referring to Ace as "the latest one", Ace fiercely resenting that and later, when he does ask for her name, saying "just call me the latest one", and declaring her distrust in him to her friend of the episode, saying that she doesn't trust the Brigadier to guard the Doctor's back because that is her job. There is also bonding and reconciliation and the graceful end note with the Old Companion complimenting the New Companion, sending her to further adventures with the Doctor. I'm just saying, people. Precedent.


Even further back in DW history: The Aztecs, or Yet Another Example of Barbara Rocking Beyond Belief.



The educational children's programm idea is still clearly noticable here, with the Aztec culture being presented. I don't mean that as a criticism, on the contrary; it's very well done, and btw, kudos for not choosing the actual time of the Spaniards arriving, but an earlier period, and for doing something all too rarely done in shows with time travel. I ranted about this on several occasions, last I think when I was watching some Enterprise episodes wherein history has been changed so that the Nazis win, and Our Heroes have to put it right again: it feels like a cop-out to me never to put Our Heroes in a historical situation where there is a horrible injustice going on and they can't do anything about it because otherwise they'd change history, no, history is always already changed and must be back on track for the better. How nice. (ST did it somewhat differently in the classic Guardian at the Edge of Forever, where Kirk has to let Edith Keeler die because she's supposed to, but that is a purely personal loss.) The Aztecs, on the other hand, does put Barbara (and to a lesser degree the rest of them) in the situation where she's confronted with a horrible status quo - a society practising human sacrifice - and understandably wants to change it, only to find out she can't. The compromise the story makes - Barbara can't change Aztec society, and the Aztecs themselves remain doomed, but she can and does make a difference for one individual Aztec - comes across as fair and plausible. (Let's handwave Barbara's idea that if the Aztecs hadn't practised human sacrifice, the Spaniards wouldn't have destroyed them; really, even as a 60s teacher, Barbara should now better - Cortez & Co. were after the gold, and with the Aztecs had been nothing but loving pacificists, they'd still have been subjugated, only quicker.)

Barbara's big argument with the Doctor about whether or not to change history: reminded me of what I thought in The Dalek Invasion of Earth, i.e. that Barbara's relationship with the Doctor, utterly unromantic and also not father-daughter or mentor-protegé, because Barbara is an adult woman in her 30s and interested in another man, is a) compelling and b) what would be great to have in New Who right now. (And chances are we'll get it with Donna.) Of course, with the way the show continues in mind it's hard not to see the Doctor as having a double standard here, because there are future occasions where he does interfere in societies (usually via supporting the rebel du jour) a plenty -, but this is the show in its very early stages, and the writers didn't know that then. Still, from a Watsonian pov his vehement "it's not possible, believe me, I know" - pause, bitter - "I know" is intriguing; did he try unsuccessfully earlier, and was that one of the reasons why he's at this point on the run from Gallifrey?

Speaking of the Doctor, Watsonian interpretations and continuity into New Who: it cracks me up that the asexualist view of the Time Lords was so much fought about in the Fourth and Fifth Doctor periods and later, because One, that cranky old-young man (old in looks, young in Time Lord years), is clearly NOT asexual in The Aztecs. If there ever was a precedent of the Alien Slutboi Tease accusation leveled at Ten, it's here. Not only does he flirt with Cameca, all the time, and definitely not innocently or just because he needs information (he raves about her when she's not present, after all), he leaves her at the first opportunity as surely as Ten will leave Reinette and can't say goodbye when she wants him to, and yet he goes back for that talisman she has given him and keeps it to remember her. There is even that shot of him busying himself at the TARDIS console with a sad expression paralled in Girl in the Fireplace. Oh, and in between, there is the shocked look as soon she mentions mortgage marriage and settling down their own garden. Yep, clearly the same Time Lord.

The Aztecs does have its share of 60s sci fi clichés and/or racism: the very premise of Barbara being taken for a goddess (or technically the reincarnation of a dead priest become divine), Ian defeating the Aztec warrior Ixta in combat all the time despite Ixta having fought all his life and Ian being a school teacher. On the other hand, they're a human not an alien society (which oddly enough for me avoids the condescension which the same kind of storyline has when it's a member of the Enterprise crew being taken for a god or defeating the local champions in single combat), and you have both the Doctor and Ian pointing out to Barbara that her desire to change the Aztecs also means she's ignoring all their own convictions and religious beliefs, seeing hers as superior, which is a degree of self awareness most comparable tv in the 60s doesn't have. Most refreshingly, none of the locals fall in love with Barbara, Ian or Susan and change their alliances because of that; the most important relationship is the one between Barbara and the Priest of High Learning, and it works via discussions, with him being challenged by the new ideas she presents, not by her as a woman. Similarly, the Priest of Sacrifice doesn't resent Barbara because he is in thwarted lust with her but because she represents a threat to his power. The only romantic subplot is that of Cameca and the Doctor, and the Doctor does not change Cameca's views, or tries to.

So, Aztecs: a grand old adventure, as Barrie put it, and I loved watching it.

Date: 2007-10-03 01:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] redstarrobot.livejournal.com
Battlefield didn't impress me much at first, despite some fun with explosives, but has really grown on me in the years since it first aired.

In Battlefield, you have the precedent of Old Companion Meets New Companion, in the form of the Brigadier and Ace meeting, and guess what? There is bickering. There is competitiveness. [...] There is also bonding and reconciliation and the graceful end note with the Old Companion complimenting the New Companion, sending her to further adventures with the Doctor. I'm just saying, people. Precedent.

Yes, but not a precedent based in sexist tropes like feminine jealousy between, as SR put it, "the wife and the ex" and soap opera catfights... that's what really felt demeaning about School Reunion, not that there was tension at the fact of change. However much a caricature you found some of the results, the one thing Battlefield studiously tried to avoid was sexism, and it took more than one affectionate potshot at the Brigadier's paternalistic attitude from the 1970s - including his habit of patronizing and often attempting to protect and limit the role of the Doctor's female companion, on the grounds that danger was no job for a woman. So that was a precedent of bickering based in the Brigadier's past characterization and his rehabilitation into the show's more modern values (stopping for one more potshot at his attitudes in that final scene with Doris). Sarah Jane doesn''t have much of a history of cattiness towards other women, so I'm not sure whose characterization that was based in.

I'm afraid I can't agree on Bambera; she can do no wrong. ;) Mostly, though, I think she's what little girls like Ace grow up into. And I suspect that in 1989, she was one of the first tough women on television, so part of my reaction may simply be that, having seen her in 1989, she was pretty refreshing. But I don't think she was, in fact, all that different from a man in that role, which was probably the point. I did initially agree with you on Ancelyn, but repeat viewings have brought me to appreciate his fanboy-style adorkability. (It's hard to stay cold towards a puppy that wags its tail that enthusiastically.) :)

One thing about Morgan that does come across as deliberate: her reaction to the "Arthur is dead and has been for a thousand years" news, showing that in fact she loved Arthur.

And, as you say, it's pretty unambiguously romantic, too, which is probably why they didn't come out and make explicit the brother and sister thing - being a kids show, they probably had a choice of one or the other, and went for the more controversial one, which I think is great. Morgain's another one where I initially rolled by eyes a bit at the talons and the chainmail 1980s power miniskirt. But I didn't walk away feeling she was inconsistent. I think the people she actually killed were all soldiers, not civilians - I'm not sure she got anyone out of uniform, and that's part of what swayed her when it came to the nuclear weapon. The UNIT pilot was an enemy soldier in uniform and on the battlefield rather than in some sort of neutral ground, and the innkeeper's wife wasn't cured just because, but in payment of a financial debt to a civilian that she didn't have the currency to settle - a whimsical payment, one that was imposed rather than negotiated, and smacked more than a little of humoring (and perhaps intimidating) the civilians, but the settling of a debt nonetheless. So I feel she was deliberately characterized all the way through with a consistent code of the ethics of waging war - we knew that the proper places and the proper targets were a big deal for Morgaine, all the way through, and being merciful with an aging civilian while killing an enemy soldier fits that strongly. (The one thing that might not fit in - I can't remember this well, but it strikes me as odd - is unleashing the Destroyer on Ace and the Doctor, but hesitating at the nuclear weapon. Wasn't the Destroyer essentially the same thing?)

Date: 2007-10-03 02:27 pm (UTC)
ext_6322: (Default)
From: [identity profile] kalypso-v.livejournal.com
I remember Morgaine was one of the reasons I really liked Battlefield at the time; as a friend and I concluded, she's not bad, just wrong, and therefore superior to the run-of-the-mill opponents who are just bad because they're bad... because the Doctor needs someone bad to defeat. Any talonry I just write off, as I do with many irritations of that period, as part of a peculiar disguise necessary to conceal from the BBC authorities what the show was actually doing. (Why won't my brain do that with the Carrionites?)

And the Brigadier was wonderful (I think they originally planned to kill him off at the end but couldn't bring themselves to do it), I loved Bambera's straightforwardness (never quite worked out how she tied up with Guinevere, though), and Ancelyn recognising the Doctor at once while taking for granted that he looked different. The only thing that bothered me was Ace's one-off friend, who felt like a hastily-written Ace-requires-a-companion-at-this-point sort of character.

Date: 2007-10-03 03:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
The Carrionites were never a problem to me because they were straight from Macbeth and also, as far as opponents are concerned, fairy tale creatures, much like the Gentlemen in BTVS' Hush. (What I mean is: on Buffy, you get layered antagonists like Spike and Dru in season 2 or the Mayor in season 3, and you monsters whose motivations do not matter because they're from a different type of story, like the Gentlemen in Hush. The Carrionites are definitely the later.) I kept going to and thro with Morgaine when watching Battlefield, thinking she was one of the standard opponents when we got the cackling laughter and talons scenes, then being delighted when she objected to Mordred's use of the cemetary and struck a truce with the Brig, then groaning when we got back to muwahahaa, then impressed again, etc. But she was definitely interesting throughout.

The only thing that bothered me was Ace's one-off friend, who felt like a hastily-written Ace-requires-a-companion-at-this-point sort of character.

I thought she was basically there so Ace could voice her feelings about the Brigadier to someone, as she wouldn't have towards the Doctor, which, yes, made her a plot device.

Date: 2007-10-03 03:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
And I suspect that in 1989, she was one of the first tough women on television, so part of my reaction may simply be that, having seen her in 1989, she was pretty refreshing.

I can understand that from the context of the time, but to me upon watching the toughness came across as over the top. Especially in comparison to Ace and even a minor character with far less screentime like the UNIT pilot, who also came across as strong and competent but without the taste of "look! UNIT has female soldiers/leaders now! And they're REALLY TOUGH!" To make a movie comparison: it's the difference between Ripley and Vasquez, to me, as a viewer. Vasquez the female marine in Aliens grated, I felt Cameron was pushing me towards his film and yelling at me LOOK A TOUGH WOMAN SHE'S REALLY TOUGH (but then I disliked ALL the marines in Aliens, male or female), whereas I loved Ripley in all four Alien movies, one of the reasons being of course her strength.

And, as you say, it's pretty unambiguously romantic, too, which is probably why they didn't come out and make explicit the brother and sister thing - being a kids show, they probably had a choice of one or the other, and went for the more controversial one, which I think is great.

Oh absolutely. I was amazed and delighted at that final speech.

So I feel she was deliberately characterized all the way through with a consistent code of the ethics of waging war - we knew that the proper places and the proper targets were a big deal for Morgaine, all the way through, and being merciful with an aging civilian while killing an enemy soldier fits that strongly.

You're right there. However:

The one thing that might not fit in - I can't remember this well, but it strikes me as odd - is unleashing the Destroyer on Ace and the Doctor, but hesitating at the nuclear weapon. Wasn't the Destroyer essentially the same thing?

Absolutely, given that he was supposedly this unstoppable force of destruction which would take the entire planet if not defeated. Also, the Destroyer was sad evidence Abaddon in Torchwood (aka my least favourite plot device ever) and That Thing in Satan's Pit had precedent (and I must say Impossible Planet/Satan's Pit have the advantage there, because they had creepy possession, not just the horned monster.

Date: 2007-10-04 04:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] redstarrobot.livejournal.com
Especially in comparison to Ace and even a minor character with far less screentime like the UNIT pilot, who also came across as strong and competent

Lavel was really awesome. One of my favorite minor characters.

but without the taste of "look! UNIT has female soldiers/leaders now! And they're REALLY TOUGH!"

Fair enough, I guess... I just don't think she was all that tough. :) I don't think she was genuinely very different from, say, Lethbridge-Stewart himself in the 1970s. A little less campy post-Empire-soldier in mannerisms, but not actually much different in action. (I can't really comment on the Aliens comparison; I've never seen any of them. However, if the problem was all of the Marines, and Bambera is the only believably military character in UNIT, which I'd argue she was, maybe the issue is military characters.) The one thing she never did, though, which I really appreciate about her versus, well, most women in a position of leadership or in a military role, was that her role was never conditional on a character arc that involved learning to get in touch with her feelings and her feminine, loving side - and neither was she made particularly asexual for it. I can't stand Aeryn Sun's character arc in S3 and S4 because it smacks so strongly of "Sure, you're tough... but there's some part of your soul missing if you're not also soft and loving." It's patronizing, and I'm not entirely sure I find the lengths it went to very believable. Or even Sarah Jane's "Sure, you're independent... but you'd be so much more fulfilled with a child to care for."

Absolutely, given that he was supposedly this unstoppable force of destruction which would take the entire planet if not defeated.

They did play up the bit about how it should have been going too far, even for her, and she also implied when speaking to Ace and Shou Youing that the Destroyer didn't kill, but enslaved. Ultimately, though, I'm not sure it's necessarily inconsistent characterization, simply because of how the Doctor won - he won by appealing to a conscience that had been dulled by obsession to wake up again, which would apply equally to the loving mother convincing herself that her son was lost as she sacrificed him, unleashing the Destroyer, and detonating the nuclear weapon. If she hadn't actually been that generally honorable soldier, she wouldn't have had that conscience to appeal to, regardless of its failures the nearer she got to her love/hate revenge on Arthur. And if her conscience hadn't started to fail her in those cases, she wouldn't have had the tragic flaw it took to be the villain, and her final scene with that dawning moment of realization wouldn't have been very interesting to watch, or a particularly effective way of stopping her. Like a lot of S26 villains, she was an object lesson in the idea that evil was grounded in the obsessions of people who somehow lost sight of their moral compass in the process - Light, Millington, Judson, all the kids from Earth who got lost forever on the Cheetah planet and became the thing they'd once feared. All of them became destroyers just because they lost their way under pressure, not because they were bad. And some of the S26 villains found their way back (although not always before it was too late): the Ancient One, Morgaine, Redvers Fenn-Cooper, Gwendolen and Mrs. Pritchard, and ultimately Ace, who would have become the same thing if she hadn't literally found her way back.
From: [identity profile] redstarrobot.livejournal.com
Also, the Destroyer was sad evidence Abaddon in Torchwood (aka my least favourite plot device ever) and That Thing in Satan's Pit had precedent (and I must say Impossible Planet/Satan's Pit have the advantage there, because they had creepy possession, not just the horned monster.

I don't think a horned monster is a horned monster is a horned monster. Azal was far closer to a predecessor of Satan-in-the-Pit than anything else - even textually, their background is similar, and that's the closest I can see to the "Christianity is based in fact" problems with Proto-Satan and Abaddon. And of course there were Nimons and so on, which were a mythical referece, and Sutekh, despite the lack of horns. (Although I think old Who took more of a Stargate style "and they mistook these aliens for gods!" approach than new Who; I balk slightly at the implication that this one mythos is proven to be genuine.) The Destroyer was demonic, but not really a mythical reference of any sort. In fact, "Destroyer of Worlds" strongly implies Oppenheimer to me... I think he was a reference to nuclear weapons themselves - a purely malevolent force that, even if you think you control them, will one day seem like your only resort and take on a life of their own, until honorable soldiers decide they cannot tolerate the cost of that sort of war. Which, man, impresses me a lot more than shiny-but-silent CGI of Satan and his son. CGI doesn't age well and Satan as a generic menacing force doesn't show much thematic skill; a demonic and unexpectedly manipulative character representing nuclear warfare and closely mirroring the more explicit nuclear disarmament message does much better, even if the execution is hit or miss. So I'm not all that into the Destroyer onscreen, but his role in the story was extremely sound.

Date: 2007-10-03 04:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ide-cyan.livejournal.com
Yes, but not a precedent based in sexist tropes like feminine jealousy between, as SR put it, "the wife and the ex" and soap opera catfights... that's what really felt demeaning about School Reunion, not that there was tension at the fact of change.

Amen. (From a Doylist perspective: I cannot imagine the writers basing Ace and Alistair's dialogue on Sex and the City's.)

Date: 2007-10-03 02:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] londonkds.livejournal.com
defeating the Aztec warrior Ixta in combat all the time despite Ixta having fought all his life and Ian being a school teacher.

This has been explained in fanon by Ian having been drafted under the 1949-1960 National Service conscription scheme and having fought in the 1950s Malayan Emergency (the only conflict in which National Service conscripts saw actual action in large numbers).

Date: 2007-10-03 02:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] londonkds.livejournal.com
See also his anecdotes about tropical termites in The Web Planet.

Date: 2007-10-03 03:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Trust fanon to come up with something.*g* I'll say that even without that, Ian's fighting prowess does not feel as grating as Kirk's in just about every storyline where he has to impress the natives.

Date: 2007-10-04 05:03 am (UTC)
isweedan: White jittering text "art is the weapon" on red field (Default)
From: [personal profile] isweedan
Your brain, it thinks such lovely thoughts.
Slutboi Alien Tease, indeed! ^.^
Here by way of Who_Daily, btw.

Date: 2007-10-04 05:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
One so was! Thus establishing a pattern for future regenerations, clearly.

Date: 2008-06-24 05:10 pm (UTC)
ext_23738: donna noble (Default)
From: [identity profile] wondygal.livejournal.com
I thought it was quite impressive how well the historical aspect was done. I mean, okay, there were some things I raise my eyebrow at, like Susan being taken to learn the customs(I'm forgiving Ian the warrior based on information on your comments), but, maybe because, as you point out, there is no magical falling in love or magical solution, the history works very well. They don't actually affect anything, they're merely incidental. If anything, it changes them. I was shocked when Barbara took a knife to the guy's throat, I fully did not expect that from her. She is incredibly awesome. Her relationship with the Doctor is indeed fabulous.(I really need to get myself The Dalek Invasion of Earth.)

One/Cameca was also very well done! Cameca came across as intelligent and interesting. Perhaps because at the time we saw the Doctor differently? He's still the crotchety old man, not yet the super-Doctor Ten sometimes is made out to be? And so they will go about romantic subplots in a very different way later, subtext with some companions (...and the Master), super-sub-text(but not quite text) in New Who. Regardless, I enjoyed very much the scene he keeps the talisman after all. I hope there's lots of fic with Cameca. I just read the Nine/Cameca you mentioned!

Date: 2008-06-24 06:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Well, at least they have a fanmix (http://community.livejournal.com/who_otp/188492.html). Not much fanfic, though, alas.

The Dalek Invasion of Earth is another terrific outing for Barbara and has some more superb scenes with her and the Doctor. Also a really nice one for the Doctor and Ian. And of course the famous farewell to Susan. As this post says (http://community.livejournal.com/loves_them_all/62812.html), Barbara is largely responsible for turning the Doctor into a hero. So really, she is his Doctor!

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