Old Who: Terror of the Autons and The Mind of Evil

[selenak]

Or: My Evil Ex-Boyfriend Is Back and My Evil Ex-Boyfriend Is Back: The Sequel.

Okay, without kidding, those two serials were just a joy to watch (and rewatch), especially after two not so stellar Pertwee era stories I also watched recenty, The Daemons (I know they had to deal with all the fashionable stuff in the 70s, but satanism is just gauche, and also, it dragged; otoh, nice Doctor and Brig moments, and great Doctor and Master goodbye exchange), and Planet of the Spiders (not bad, but could have been better since it was the final story for the Third Doctor, though again, love the Doctor and Brig scenes, and is there fanfic about the two of them visiting questionable cabarets since this is canon?). Terror of the Autons, on the other hand, the story that introduced the Master to the Whoverse, and The Mind of Evil, which is competing with The Sea Devils for best Three/Delgado!Master story ever, are Classic Who at its best.



Robert Holmes wrote Terror of the Autons, which not only introduced the Master but also Jo Grant and Mike Yates, so there are some great lines of dialogue guaranteed. Holmes can also be relied upon to show the Doctor as three dimensional, with his petty sides and flaws (without those overshadowing why he's the hero of the show). The Brigadier's reply to the Doctor's complaint about getting regular girl Jo as a replacement for Liz the scientist is one early example: "As Miss Shaw herself so often said, you don't need a scientist, you need someone to hold your test tubes and tell you how brilliant you are."

(The Doctor takes some potshots at the Brig in this story as well, what with the "military intelligence is a contradiction in terms" remarks of which there are several, but the moment someone else attacks the Brigadier, he launches into a defensive speech. As with his retort to Jo inThe Daemons, one has the impression he thinks he's the only one allowed to critisize or be sarcastic about the Brig.)

This particular quip at the Doctor's vanity and innate need for admiration from his human companions is funny because it's true, but it also works on a meta level, since this is presumably the main reason why Liz Shaw was replaced by Jo Grant from a Doylist pov; Liz didn't need the Doctor to explain the plot to her. Now while this can be taken as a depressing statement regarding the validity of Doctor-Companion equality in the early 70s, it is a bit more complicated than that. The structure of most Sherlock Holmes stories is based on the premise that Watson, the stand-in for the reader, serves as an audience and feedback to Holmes while Holmes is busy deducing; Watson asking questions is necessary. Not because Watson is lesser or more stupid than Holmes but because Watson has other talents; Holmes couldn't do without him, either. (For a modern update on this, see House.) Jo, whose first outing Terror of the Autons is, may not be a scientist, and she does need to ask what is going on or what could be going on every now and then, but she's not an idiot, and the script cleverly addresses prejudices by letting her first blunder - messing up the Doctor's experiment with the best of intentions, getting captured by the Master - and then, when audience and Doctor alike dismiss her, showcase her strengths - her resourcefulness and bravery, which allow her to rescue the Doctor. Morever, in both these serials, as in the later Sea Devil, the script remembers Jo has UNIT training and allows her to use some self defense moves. More about that later. And the tables are completely turned as far as Jo's (lack of) maturity is concerned when the Doctor, after finding out the dematerialisation circuit he stole from the Master's TARDIS still won't make his own TARDIS fly again, throws a fit and she tells him not to be childish. Which results in the immortal: "What's wrong with being childish? I like being childish!"

(Some things never change...)

Yates, though introduced, doesn't get to do anything particularly memorable. Or maybe he's just overshadowed by the other new guy. You can see the Moriarty origin for the Master very clearly here; very much a cool and collected master criminal, and we're far, far away from the manic side of the Ainley years. Mind you, the theatricality is there already, and you have to love that he arrives in the Whoverse through a circus. And isn't just content with employing regular Autons, no, he branches out to killer daffodils. Quoth the Doctor, when the Master invites him to guess his plans: "Probably overcomplicated, vicious and in the end ineffective, like your plans usually are."

There is no bickering like Time Lord bickering. Which can be also observed at the start when the emissary from the other Time Lords arrives to give the Doctor the heads-up regarding the Master's impending arrival. In addition to the Doctor not so quietly seething because of the general exile situation he's in thanks to these people, you get the priceless exchange when the messenger from Gallifrey mentions ever so casually that between the Doctor and the Master, the Master got better grades at school, and the Doctor shoots back: "I was a late developer!"

For all the good classic Who crack provided by scary plastic, Terror of the Autons makes no bones about the fact that the Master really is a pure sociopath. We see him kill several people on screen (and a lot more offscreen) with a casual indifference that is chilling. And the pleasant remark to the Doctor in their very first on screen conversation - well, the first with the two of them in the same room - captures this element, too: "I have so few worthy opponents. I always miss them when they're gone."

While from a Doylist pov I'm sure at this point the production team had only a very vague idea of the backstory for the Master and the Doctor at this point, but we don't hear anything that would contradict later statements, and some things we do get at this point work would be turned into quintessential relationship elements. Such as the habit these two have to either a) bicker, b) try to defeat each other, or c) fanboy each other, being members of an exclusive club of 2 Who Get It. Such as the Master telling his minion du jour who is surprised that the Master isn't more angry about the Doctor having just foiled the Master's first attack that this just makes it more fun and: "I admire him in many ways."

And then you have the Doctor's reaction when the Master makes his getaway at the end. He smiles. Just in case the audience has missed that because of the quick cut to the next and final scene, there he smiles again as he points out that given he still has the Master's dematerialisation circuit which means the Master is stuck on Earth, just as he is. When Jo and the Brigadier observe he's remarkably unconcerned with the prospect of the Master running loose on Earth he admits that not only is he not worried but he's looking forward to seeing the Master again. Which on the one hand is one of the Doctor's literaly more in-human moments - the Master at large inevitably means more dead people sooner or later, and he knows it - but on the other, from a Watsonian pov, is an early indication of the mutual dependence which every now and then surfaces about them.

Speaking of things resurfacing, one plot point that keeps getting repeated during the Three/Delagado!Master era is the Doctor and the Master for a brief period being forced to work together against a third party. They come up with better justifications in later adventures, because the one here is pretty lousy - the Master only just thought of the fact the Autons could turn against him once they're on Earth in full force? Bad form in an otherwise fine script, Holmes. Anyway, it's clear why they included that scene, because here as with every other similar scene - down to, decades later, Ten and Professor Yana working together which in many ways echoes this plot element - the moving in synch and ease with each other during the scientific cooperation showcases the past and the might have been. It's also clear they these scenes never extend very long. Either of them would have to abandon their sense of self otherwise, and then their purpose in the story would be lost.

One last thing about long term continuity: in this story, the Doctor destroys one of the Master's captured superweapons before UNIT can analyze it, telling the Brigadier humans have enough weapons of destruction of their own and he doesn't intend to let them have ones that are even worse. Methinks that even without his own experience with them, that's why Torchwood's "if it's alien, it's ours" attitude would never have sat well with him. It also says something about the balance achieved between UNIT (especially the Brigadier) and the Doctor in those years - it's not that he trusts them blindly, for all that they are good people, and they don't trust him blindly, either (see the Brig completely accurately predicting that the Doctor has lied to Liz about the key and intends to leave them if he can in Spearhead from Space, which, btw, he tries again to do here - if that attempt to escape with the Master's dematerialisation circuit hadn't been genuine, he wouldn't have bothered with the quick goodbye to Jo before getting into the TARDIS), but they don't ask him for things he's not willing to give (i.e.: superior tech, weapons), and for all his occasional attitude, he does help them everytime they do ask for something.

The Mind of Evil doesn't have plastic as its MacGuffin, it has something from good old Stevenson and his Doctor Jekyll; in this case, not a drug but a machine that is supposed to separate everything evil from the rest of the human mind. Of course, no one but the Doctor seems to have read Stevenson and knows is is a bad idea from the start, but then again, who cares? We need the thing to keep the plot going, and the plot is such fun and has all the highlights of the Third Doctor era, with everyone at their best. The Brigadier gets to mastermind the recapturing of a fortress-prison, play a working class supply guy (which so reminds me of Jack Bristow doing the same thing in Alias' Breaking Point) and save the Doctor and Jo, complete with banter.

"Thank you, Brigadier. Do you think you could manage to arrive just once before the knick of time?"
"It's good to see you, too, Doctor."

Jo gets to show off not just the usual thing for female Who companions, her compassionate nature, but her UNIT training, goes from being held hostage at gunpoint to taking the gun away from the man holding her and capturing him instead, and in a later breakout shows the same kind of physical team work with the Doctor in overpowering two guards as we see in Sea Devils.

And the Doctor gets a veritable avalanche of scenes with his best enemy. By now I've watched most of the Pertwee era, and I don't think they have that much direct interaction with each other in any of the other serials, except perhaps for Sea Devils. Said interaction also reads like current day fanfiction. Witty verbal confrontations followed by bondage scene, err, by the Master tying the Doctor up, followed by torture scene, followed by the Master, fearing he has gone to far and the Doctor is done for, rushing to his aid, being concerned and worried as long as the Doctor is not conscious to see it, and reviving him in a Master version of hurt/comfort. I've read that story, you know. In several variations. Seriously, there is no sense of personal space with all the leaning in while they're together in the same room, and then they indulge in their very own phonecall tradition later on. Mind you, this time the Doctor doesn't say he's looking forward to seeing the Master again, and is properly concerned that the guy gets captured (which he doesn't) because "we can't inflict him on other planets". Also, the Master gets revenge for that quip about his plans ("overcomplicated, vicious and ineffective", remember) by taunting the Doctor about his exile at the end, which the Doctor doesn't have a good retort for. But the sense of magnetic attraction is rarely that strong.

Again, definitely not planned from a Doylist pov but really neat continuity/foreshadowing from a Watsonian one: those "worst fears" the MacGuffin of the week confronts them with. The Doctor's consists of images of burning flames mixed with Daleks yelling "exterminate". As involuntary visions of the Time War go, this isn't a bad one. The Master's is a gigantic Doctor triumphing and laughing over him, and before breaking out of the vision, he cowers, arms up, in exactly the same way Simm!Master does in Last of the Time Lords when the Doctor floats towards him. Interestingly enough, for neither of them the fear is their own death.

Trivia: if we couldn't tell this was shot at the start of the 70s by everything else, the fact we get a favorable Mao Tse-tung reference would settle it. The long and noble tradition of this firmly leftist show can backfire at times.

Three says something about being several thousand years old again. If the later Doctors show signs of middle age syndrom by insisting on being 900 years old, from Seven onwards, the earlier ones clearly do the teen and young adolescent thing of claiming to be way older than they are.

Lastly: Jo being stricken by the death of the hapless Barnum and grieving for him in the final scene was a good way of making the redshirts of the episode real. Plus again, it makes the Master's evil real in a way his more outrageous plans (which are foiled to boot) do not.

Bonus: if you, dear reader of these ramblings, are not famliar with the Old Who shows I just talked about and/or are not patient enough to hunt them down and watch them, BUT would like proof that those decades old tales really have every element of modern slash story other than the actual sex - to wit, as mentioned, witty repartee followed by bondage and groping followed by torture followed by hurt/comfort, I shall link you to the relevant excerpts from Mind of Evil for proof.

Banter, bondage, torture

followed by

Twisted hurt and comfort, OMG!

Comments

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

The Doctor's vision of fire: the novelisation, by Terrence Dicks who as script editor at the time must be considered a near-canonical source, makes it clear that this is a flashback to his experience of the alternate Earth being destroyed by volcanic fire in Inferno.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know - as I said, from a Doylist pov there is no way this was a foreshadowing of what was to come, and a flashback to Inferno makes absolute ense. But purely in terms of on screen canon as of NOW, it does work in connection to the Time War nonetheless.

Same way as neither Terry Nation nor Chris Boucher probably had an inkling of an idea of how B7 would end until Boucher wrote Blake, especially given that Terminal was intended as a semi-finale, but you can see Avon shooting Blake foreshadowed any number of times in retrospect anyway.

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

I'm starting chronologically as soon as the next Netflix disc comes, and I can't wait to see these! They sound amazing. (I can totally ping why you're a Master/Doctor person, because you're also a Xavier/Magneto person. And I'm a movieverse Magneto/Mystique person, which explains why I'm evidently a Romana/Doctor person.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

You'll have fun, I promise.

Both Xavier/Magneto and Mystique/Magneto and Doctor/Master and Romana/Doctor aren't mutually exclusive - as I said in my "best enemy" post, Mystique/Magneto and Romana/Doctor are by far the emotionally healthier relationships, and I love those, too. (Grrr, arggh about what X3 did to movieverse Mystique.)

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

I am not a mutually exclusive person by nature. (I have such a long time till I get to actually meet the Rani... maybe I'll cheat. OMG it's a Time Lord Foursome.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

There should be Romana/Rani anyway. It would be hot, and also, it wouldn't be that difficult to construct, since the Rani is an amoral scientist, not an obsessive bent on world universal domination.

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

Apparently Romana got to be President in the books and started the crazy ass Tiem War, so ... really, six of twelve, half a dozen of the other...?

(It sort of begs the question, aside from the boring/isolationist ones in government, what the hell do Time Lords do all day on Gallifrey? I've been pondering this every time they came up in the random!surfing and I hate the canon skimming over with 'they are a very boring mono people, planet of hats'. I hate that in Star Trek too, but at least on Star Trek, Klingons make Opera and own restaurants.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I'd argue the Time Lords started the Time War in Genesis of the Daleks (which is pre-Romana with Four, let alone any book canon) when they sent the Doctor back in the past to prevent the Daleks from being ever created. (The Daleks took that kind of personal...)

It sort of begs the question, aside from the boring/isolationist ones in government, what the hell do Time Lords do all day on Gallifrey? I've been pondering this every time they came up in the random!surfing and I hate the canon skimming over with 'they are a very boring mono people, planet of hats'. I hate that in Star Trek too, but at least on Star Trek, Klingons make Opera and own restaurants.

Ah, but they're not Klingons, they are Trills. *g* A bit more seriously, but only a bit: according to what Three mentions of his childhood, activities pursued on Gallifrey by non-govermental types would include mountain climbing and pseudo buddhist meditation by excentric hermits. (And we know from The Five Doctors that in the bad old days before they reformed and became Time Lords, they put members of the "lesser" species in the Dead Zone for gladiatoral entertainment, but that hardly counts.)

Summarizing some thoughts:

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

The whole thing about Doctor Who and the ineffable canon is that the narrative depends on the Doctor to keep traveling. (Except in this period, apparently.)

It's the conflict between that narrative and the human recognition that very few of us ever hate our home countries enough to leave and never return, and fewer still who leave choose to never settle in one place, that seems to drive both the show and well, all the mutable portrayals of why exactly he keeps going.

Undoubtedly, also not new thoughts. Just some I've had when watching.

Re: Summarizing some thoughts:

[selenak.livejournal.com]

The whole thing about Doctor Who and the ineffable canon is that the narrative depends on the Doctor to keep traveling. (Except in this period, apparently.)

In restrospect, it was a very daring decision to change a fundamental premise of the program for two seasons. (And two more in which he could time travel again but kept returning to 70s UNIT HQ as a touchstone before regenerating and living the completely free Bohemian life time-trekking again as Four.) But of course in terms of the character's nature, it was cleverly justified by the exile thing, which is arguably the most traumatic thing to happen to the Doctor pre- Time War. Not the exile per se - he was happily on the run before - but the fact his ability to travel through time and space was taken from him by force, so were the relevant memories, and he was stuck at one point in time for years. And they really have him trying to find a way to get the TARDIS going again, even with missing memories, in just about every other episode. While also forming strong ties with the people he's living with, and the Brigadier is the single human being he keeps finding again in every regeneration. But the urge to escape is always portrayed to be there.

(Which, btw, makes just about every New Who fanfic where Rose or someone else introduces the Doctor to whichever Earth food and the joys of living in one place in time nonsense. Been there, done that.)

Re: Summarizing some thoughts:

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

(Which, btw, makes just about every New Who fanfic where Rose or someone else introduces the Doctor to whichever Earth food and the joys of living in one place in time nonsense. Been there, done that.)

It actually should be pretty retarded of a concept if you do even five minutes of skimming on wikipedia and see the list of ex-companions. He's had a couple dozen humans on board before -- sure he knows pizza. And that's even without getting into the whole 'already had a family' thing, which RTD's gang stresses at least once a season.

But then again, this is fandom we're talking about...

Re: Summarizing some thoughts:

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Quite. Once I made the mistake of getting into an argument with a radical Doctor/Rose' shipper who insisted he never loved anyone before in his entire life. Naturally, this was someone who hadn't watched a single Old Who ep or bothered to check wiki, but this was well after s2/28 had been broadcast (though before s3), so the "I was a dad once" line and Sarah Jane as living evidence the man used to travel with people long before Rose was there even for New Who only watchers. So I asked whether she really believed he was a kind of psychopath, managing to go through a millennium, a lot of relationships, including literal family ones in addition to formed-via-friendship family, without ever loving a single one of those people. Well, naturally, because he could not feel love before Rose. I do hope she was a teenager, but otoh, adults have been known to talk nonsense, too...

Re: Summarizing some thoughts:

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

I kind of wonder what people like that would make of a different fandom with an immortal wanderer through time. Like, say, Highlander. I mean, god knows it's a common enough trope...

Re: Summarizing some thoughts:

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Darling Highlander. It was by no means perfect, but its fans certainly didn't have the idea Duncan never loved anyone in his life but Tessa/Methos/*insert character of choice*, and even the most "I watch only the Methos episodes" selective perspective-like fans didn't try that one with Methos, Mr. 5000 Years And Counting, either.

Re: Summarizing some thoughts:

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

Thankfully, the idea that Duncan really did love each one of those people, independently, on their own merits and often at the same time as pretty ingrained into the premise. I was going to try and pick another program, but that's the only one I can think of with immortal characters that doesn't somehow fall into the OTP trap canonically.

Which says something for immortality is usually written.

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

*cough* (http://www.whofic.com/viewstory.php?sid=18783)

This comment was brought to you by the Department of Convenient Fics.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Ohhhhhhh. Excellent. Thanks!

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

Also, X3? What movie was that? *la la la*

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

After your reviews of the "Three" stories I find I have a better appreciation for that era. Previously it was my least favorite but yes, there are items that became the backbone of much of current Who.

I always love your reviews...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Thank you, and I'm glad I could advertise the Three era a bit. I do love it (though my very favourite Old School era are the Doctor and Ace - the Pertwee years unarguably have the best ensemble, though, because the whole exile-on-Earth plot allowed for the UNIT characters to be build up that way).

[misachan.livejournal.com]

Man, it's so disheartening to read these great recaps only to find out that the episodes haven't been released on DVD yet.

I absolutely love the Doctor describing the Master's plans as, "Probably overcomplicated, vicious and in the end ineffective." If ever a character needed a good long sit down with the Evil Overlord List, it's him.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Ah, but in the meantime, that's what we have Youtube for! I am impatiently waiting for the DVDs anyway, though. The Silurians and The Sea Devils, for example, which are out on DVD, have some good audio commentary and extras.

If ever a character needed a good long sit down with the Evil Overlord List, it's him.

Well, it took him many years, but by the time Utopia rolls along he at least has learned that he's not supposed to tell the Doctor about his evil plans so the Doctor can stop them in time.*g* But I fear many of the other points remain lost on him. Some other nice zingers in this regard, from other stories, would be:

From Sea Devils:

M: You must wonder why I had you brought here.
D: Not really. Your usual childish desire to gloat?

Mind you, the Master gets to make equally accurate quips about the Doctor's flaws. For example in "Time Monster", when their TARDISes interlock (no, really) and after trading insults via viewscreens, the Master deliberately turns off the sound and tells his minion du jour that this will lead to the Doctor getting incautious and getting out because: "Never has there been a man more determined to get the last word." (He's absolutely right.)

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

Sigh, Mind of Evil, sigh. I love that Hurt/Comfort scene, it's so fanficcy. No, the Master really wasn't trying to kill the Doctor, he just wanted to almost kill him so that the Doctor would realize his own strength, and therefore that he has to be with the Master, because they are both Timelords and better than everyone else. Is this how anyone thinks outside fanfiction? Apparently so.

(Haven't seen 'Autons' yet - it's not on DVD or youtube or any of my usual Unofficial Sources. Where did you find it?)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMprbzu9i70).

No, the Master really wasn't trying to kill the Doctor, he just wanted to almost kill him so that the Doctor would realize his own strength, and therefore that he has to be with the Master, because they are both Timelords and better than everyone else. Is this how anyone thinks outside fanfiction? Apparently so.

I know. The Master: behaving like fanfiction wants him too since 1971. Well, sometimes.*g*

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

Also, the Master gets revenge for that quip about his plans ("overcomplicated, vicious and ineffective", remember) by taunting the Doctor about his exile at the end

I am quite convinced that his plan in "The Mind of Evil" is deliberately overcomplicated, vicious and ineffective, actually. I mean, even for the Master, that plan is ridiculously baroque and pointless, and he doesn't actually seem to care particularly about his avowed goal, which seems to be, "Start World War III. Profit!" I don't think he ever expected to succeed at that. He just wanted, a) to have some fun playing with the Doctor, and b) to get his hands on that dematerialization circuit. And if you believe that premise, then I suppose the revenge is even richer: he uses all the Doctor's expectations about the Master's plans against him. The Doctor never once questions that he's trying to do exactly what he says he is, and plays right into his hands.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

That works for me; though one could argue his plan in Sea Devils is pointless beyond the jail break, too. I mean: say the Sea Devils would have wiped out the humans or at least started a full scale war with massive losses, so what? There wouldn't even have been profit in it for him. Of ocurse the script recognized that and had the Doctor ask and the Master reply the Doctor's fondness for the humans is reason enough. Still, he tries somewhat harder to convince the Sea Devils whereas he's really not that invested in WWIII, so by and large, your argument persuades me.

I wonder: did the Brigadier ever wonder? Or wonder indeed if Earth might have been safer, from all Master-caused disasters at last, if the Doctor weren't around for the Master to show off for?

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

Or wonder indeed if Earth might have been safer, from all Master-caused disasters at last, if the Doctor weren't around for the Master to show off for?

It's an interesting question, and a perfectly valid and reasonable thing for him to think about. I'd happily read fic exploring that. :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

It's Joan's question from The Family of Blood, isn't it? Of course, the Brig has a somewhat different perspective. He has seen the Doctor safe the world a couple of times and of course has formed his emotional tie with him AS the Doctor, which includes evil ex boyfriends insisting on making trouble.

But still. I think in every Master story from the Three era, at least one if not more UNIT soldiers die, and the Brigadier would have to be the one to write the letters to their parents. So I think it would be plausible if he wondered. Do you think he would say it out loud?

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

Do you think he would say it out loud?

I think he might, in a bad enough moment.

[eryaforsthye.livejournal.com]

I want fic with that.
Badly.

*longs*

But, yes, I simply *adore* your reviews. I am a firm Three fan and Three/Delgado!Master is by far my favourite pairing (as well as being my first ever slash pairing back when I didn't even know what slash *was*).

I highly enjoyed reading your thoughts on the subject.
Do you mind if I friend you? :)

Exellent meta,

Love,

Erya.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Friend away, and I want fic with that, too, since for the life of me I really don't have time to write it right now!

(But maybe in the future when Darth Real Life eases up again.)

[versaphile.livejournal.com]

God yes. Mr. "I'll come back and destroy the Earth, just to spite you!" The only reason he keeps planning to destroy the Earth is because he *knows* it'll piss off the Doctor. He doesn't need to plan any further than that, so he doesn't.

You know, given the fact that the Keller machine basically foretold their futures, and I've been thinking about using the Keller machine in Praxis, that leads to some interesting thoughts.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I'm looking forward to the results of your thoughts, because yes, that was some eerily accurate inadvertant foreshadowing via the Keller machine.

The only reason he keeps planning to destroy the Earth is because he *knows* it'll piss off the Doctor. He doesn't need to plan any further than that, so he doesn't.

I think the Doctor is aware of that, but at this stage is reasonably confident he can always thwart the Master in time. Otoh, by the time they've reached the year that wasn't, with everything in between, I could buy him wondering whether if his own death wouldn't put an end to all these Master-caused disasters for humanity. (Though the fact he couldn't trust the Master not to torch Earth entirely in a fit afterwards would prevent suicide.)

But for the humans who are in a position to deduce that the Master is doing this to their planet just for Doctor-related kicks, the variation of Joan's question really would be unavoidable at some point. And the Brigadier is in such a position.

[versaphile.livejournal.com]

Well yeah. It sucks to be the person/species/planet in between when the two of them are together. While I would say that the vast majority of bad guys would do their badness quite happily without the Doctor there to challenge them, the Master is the exception to that rule. He's the only one that's there specifically just to tick the Doctor off by hurting other people. Because other people are competition, and the Master wants the Doctor's attention fully.

Do we have much evidence of the Master's solo adventures? What *does* he do when he's not plotting against the Doctor/executing a plot/recovering from losing for the Nth time?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

People at best_enemies have wondered the same thing and have come up with some entertaining results.

More seriously: some of his plots might have been executed with or without the Doctor around though it's arguable whether he wanted to surprise the Doctor with the results later on; I mean, in The Time Monster he's after control of that chronovore, and in The Daemons he wants the knowledge and power of said Daemons, and in neither case "taunting the Doctor" appears to be a motive. (Though he does that once the Doctor stumbles across these projects, naturally.) So I imagine he conducts those type of schemes when he's not busy Doctor-baiting - schemes directed at gaining knowledge and various types of power, I mean.

(And at some point inevitably gets bored and moves on.)

[versaphile.livejournal.com]

Hmm, yes. the non-Doctor-obsessed part of his personality is as knowledge-seeking as the Doctor. I think that that's a pretty standard Renegade trait, to leave out of a desire for hands-on knowledge. And power, in the Master's case. But power in and of itself is clearly not enough.

I think he wants power not merely to control others, but in order to prevent anyone from ever controlling him. He explicitly says that it's rule or be ruled, and he refuses to be ruled, and so he really only has the one option.

His other main motivation is a quest for life extension/renewal, which is a matter of basic survival, though given how quickly he used up his regenerations (which ties into my CIA thoughts) I think he was somehow cheated of most of his lives very early on, and thus feels it necessary to take life in order to have what's due him.

[versaphile.livejournal.com]

Also, a thought on the Master's "sociopathy":

The Doctor himself was willing to kill to get his way, in that first outing we saw. In fact, all Time Lords seem to see killing lower species as the equivalent of killing animals: sometimes regrettable, perhaps, but not a hefty moral issue. The Doctor's morality is one that he's obtained through extensive human contact. So the Master might take that a step further than most TLs, but it's not nearly the same as if a human did what he did. Granted, the Master has killed a few TLs in his day, but he did that when he was driven mad from living in a corpse or an alien body.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

the non-Doctor-obsessed part of his personality is as knowledge-seeking as the Doctor.

Which is why I treasure fanfic that remembers he is a scientist and curiosity and knowledge-seeking are part of his personality make-up. Always assuming Yana wasn't a completely artificial construct but drew on surpressed parts of the Master, Utopia would be a pretty good illustration for this.

He explicitly says that it's rule or be ruled, and he refuses to be ruled, and so he really only has the one option.

It's probably the core of their disagreement, because the Doctor of course sees running away as option No.3 - as a constant state in the sense of not-bound-ness, unless he's forcibly restrained, of course.

His other main motivation is a quest for life extension/renewal, which is a matter of basic survival, though given how quickly he used up his regenerations (which ties into my CIA thoughts) I think he was somehow cheated of most of his lives very early on, and thus feels it necessary to take life in order to have what's due him.

If he did work for the CIA - and that is how he lost some if not the majority of his regenerations - it would also explain why the Master is the the only Time Lord (that we know of) who gets offered a second regeneration cycle as a bribe in "The Five Doctors" and then again in the Time War (only that time they actually go through with it). I always thought there had to be a serious drawback to a second regeneration cycle, otherwise why would Borussa go through all that trouble to aquire Rassilon's ring inistead, and currently I suspect the drums as a deliberate side effect of that. Anyway, this is a roundabout way of saying he probably knew the council was able to grant a second cycle, and when they refused to when he was on body No.13th, he lost it? Especially if he used to work for them once upon a time.

The Doctor's morality is one that he's obtained through extensive human contact.

That's true. Though then again re: morality when it comes to killing lesser species, we get his reaction when the Brigadier blows up those caves at the end of The Silurians which would indicate at this point he sees killing humans and Silurians as both equally wrong. That's Three, though, not One, who definitely needed that human contact.

Though if the TLs in general equate lesser species with animals - how to square that with their attitude towards the Rani who got exiled for experimenting on both? Or maybe it's all too reconcilable, precisely because she did it to both?

[versaphile.livejournal.com]

the Doctor of course sees running away as option No.3 - as a constant state in the sense of not-bound-ness, unless he's forcibly restrained, of course.

Yes, excellent point. In fact, that dichotomy is one of the major issues that come between them, and IMO I believe that the Doctor was the one who ruined things between them precisely by running away. Somehow he broke the Master's hearts, and that's why the Master is constantly pursuing him.

it would also explain why the Master is the the only Time Lord (that we know of) who gets offered a second regeneration cycle as a bribe in "The Five Doctors"

Yes! He would know, and then be really bitter about it when they refused to give him the extra lives when they were the ones who used them up. It would explain his desire for retribution against the Time Lords, his assassination of the President, the depth of his quest for new life.

at this point he sees killing humans and Silurians as both equally wrong.

*nods* Yet when he has to choose between humanity and other species, he picks humanity. He *tries* to arrange it so that both live, but faced with two aggressive species (and humanity is pretty aggressive) it's pretty rare for the Doctor to do anything like he did to the Racnoss, for example. Maybe there are old school eps where the Doctor actively forces back a human colonization attempt? And not just by the odd moralizing speech. The closest I can think of is the Planet of the Ood, and there he didn't really *do* anything. The point being that the Doctor has a heirarchy of species that deserve to live more than others. He just extends it a bit further than TL morality because he's acquired human morality as well.

Yes, the Rani did it to both. More importantly, I believe they exiled her because she flaunted the rules. That's a huge no-no for TLs. TLs still obey the non-intervention rule in general, and while we see the hypocrisy in action, if she actively flaunted rule #1 of Gallifrey that's enough to get her kicked out. The Rani would just see that as a condemnation of her experiments, because she doesn't care about anyone else's rules.

Not caring about Gallifrey's rules is pretty much what makes a Renegade.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

IMO I believe that the Doctor was the one who ruined things between them precisely by running away. Somehow he broke the Master's hearts, and that's why the Master is constantly pursuing him.

It seems to be the general fanon consensus, probably because of the Doctor's established running pattern and because SOMETHING must explain all that obesso bitterness. For my part, I also think the Doctor broke it off and ran, but I don't think that was the only thing that happened, or even the first thing. Because if it were, the Doctor would not have his own share of bitterness. And cattyiness. I mean, when Three in Sea Devils turns to Jo after having seen the Master on the monitor and says with the most catty gleam of bitter exness ever: "He put on weight!", this is not the behaviour of a man who knows himself to be the one who's solely responsible for them breaking up. So, I'd venture that one reason why the Doctor broke it off and ran was that the Master did something first. Not something that the MASTER would see as a cause, of course. But that the Doctor would. Now whether that was something political, ethical or personal, who knows. Could be anything from telepathic contact at a time where the Doctor really didn't want to to major disagrement about whether to rule the galaxy or just wander about. As is the way with couples, the Master probably thought of it just as one more tiff in a series, but the Doctor saw it as the proverbial last straw and made it into the justification to ran. (Because he's good at rationalizing these things, isn't he?)

The point being that the Doctor has a heirarchy of species that deserve to live more than others. He just extends it a bit further than TL morality because he's acquired human morality as well.

Granted, though the way DW is structured rarely puts the humans in the role of the aggressors/invaders; they're usually the ones invaded. Even with the Silurians, where the Doctor tries to negotiate a peace and fails and the Silurians are presented as the original inhabitants, we don't get more than one Silurian who is willing to go for a peaceful solution (which has annoyed me a bit from a storytelling pov). Whereas more than one human is originally willing. The other story that comes to mind is "The Ambassadors of Death" where the Doctor does manage to negotiate a peace between the humans and the semi-invading alien species, but most humans versus aliens stories do have him eventually side with the humans.

Not caring about Gallifrey's rules is pretty much what makes a Renegade.

I still wonder whether it can be a coincidence that we got not one, not two, but three renegades within the same generation - the same Academy year even - or whether someone of the higher-uppers manipulated circumstances a bit to encourage this because they foresaw the need for at least one and thought if they couldn't use one, then the other...

[versaphile.livejournal.com]

Oh, I expect it took a hell of a lot more than one action for their relationship to collapse so spectacularly. I imagine decades of slights and spites building up to a massively crazy and bitchy breakup. They both know how to hurt each other so well.

Don't get me wrong, I believe the Doctor would ideally see all species get along in harmony. And anyone in trouble, he wants to help. Humanity *as* a lower species taught him the importance of life when life is brief and fragile. But everyone picks favorites in the end. What differentiates the Master and the Doctor as Time Lords is how much it matters to care about such fleeting, small lives. I think it's a mistake to assume the Master's POV (pre-madness) makes him a sociopath when it's the TL equivalent of pest control.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I imagine decades of slights and spites building up to a massively crazy and bitchy breakup.

(And I can't wait to read it!) *nods* Yes, slow build-up and then explosion makes so much sense.

They both know how to hurt each other so well.

They do. Which, btw, is one of the reasons why I feel such a disconnect during the Four and Master stories - because Four is the only version of the Doctor where this feels absolutely one-sided, i.e. he can get under the Master's skin but not vice versa. Every other version of the Doctor who meets the Master can't help but respond to him in some way, but not Four.

I think it's a mistake to assume the Master's POV (pre-madness) makes him a sociopath when it's the TL equivalent of pest control.

Sidenote as it detracts somewhat from the topic: which would make the movie half-human origin of the Doctor the equivalent of somewhat disturbing (for TLs) cross-breeding with a pet-like species.

Back to your point: yes, and I think that is why they never did anything about the Master until he started to endanger them. What he did made him a renegade but not more in their eyes.

[versaphile.livejournal.com]

Actually, just look at how Torchwood treats aliens, which is analagous to how the british empire exploited the natives of other countries. Or even the way one human group dehumanizes another to legitimize subjugation, as exemplified in the recent Ood ep. Except the Time Lords have such power and are so separate from the universe that only the CIA and renegades bother to engage with lower species. I bet the Doctor's parentage was a huge scandal and that's a major part of why he never fit in.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Speaking of how Torchwood treats aliens, astrogirl and self speculated about an AU (http://astrogirl2.livejournal.com/491602.html?thread=6795346#t6795346) which might be of interest to you...

[versaphile.livejournal.com]

*reads* Oh, that would make a great AU. If only I wasn't in the middle of the most gigantic doctor/master fic *ever*.

BTW, our conversations have given me a whole bunch of fodder. My only concern is that I'm not sure how I'll fit in all the Master's backstory, though a certain mind parasite may come in handy there.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

The most gigantic Doctor/Master fic ever must come first, of course.*g*

And I'm glad to be inspirational. And does that mean the little bugger survived being nuked by UNIT? (Well, he could have teleported...) Or does the Master rebuild the Keller machine?

[versaphile.livejournal.com]

Well, the Master audio from BF claims that multiple mind parasites could be found in China, so I'm thinking that'll be handy.

[elyssadc.livejournal.com]

I can't begin to tell you how much I enjoy your reviews of Pertwee-era serials. I love them in the best possible way because they actually enhance my enjoyment of stories I already enjoy the hell out of. And that is no small feat. Plus, the Three/Delgado!Master relationship is one of...I'd have to say the top five things I most love about old skool Who. I absolutely can not get enough of them. The depths of my love for them transcend the confines of the written word. I luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuv them. The chemistry between Pertwee and Delgado was RIDICULOUS and you make it even better for me by pointing out so many of the brilliant subtleties. So, thank you. Also? Kick ass clip choices. Perfect examples of how slashtastic they were. Bravo.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I was so delighted to find them on Youtube, as they really demonstrate the slashy goodness of their scenes together more than anything. Among the many, many reasons why it's such a shame Roger Delgado died in that car accident is that the Three era really should have ended in a Doctor/Master story, as planned...