fannish5: What are your five favorite redemption storylines?

[selenak]

1) Londo Mollari, in Babylon 5. Undisputed all time winner in my heart. I've gone on about this at length in my Londo essay for idol_reflection, and it's tricky to be brief about the greatness of Londo's storyarc in B5, but for the purpose of this meme: it's about the only one I can think of where the fall is given equal narrative time to the redemption. In most other stories, the things a person has to redeem himself/herself for are usually shown only in flashback and thus briefly. Whereas with B5, we know exactly what Londo is guilty of because we were shown what he did at length, and were given several individual characters to love who suffered through his actions. And the road back doesn't happen overnight, either. As with the fall, it takes two seasons. His ultimate fate is both tragic and yet, in lack of a better term, redemptive. He faces his greatest fear with courage and grace, goes through fifteen years of hell, and in the end dies for his people.

2) Faith, in Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Angel: The Series. You know, one of my all time pet peeves are posts or fanfiction that postulate Faith's fall was entirely Buffy's fault/what she did wasn't that bad anyway/she was completely a victim. Because that takes away the magnitude of Faith's achievement in coming back. Yes, she had a bad deal from the start, but no, that doesn't absolve her from responsibility. At her lowest, she killed people - the Professor at the start of Graduation Day, most prominently - without even caring about the reasons, just because the Mayor told her to. What she did to Xander in Consequences was sexual assault plus attempted manslaughter, at the very least. And of course, in Five by Five, she tortured Wesley. Faith did all those things, and we saw her choosing to do them. But we also saw her come back. Step by step, starting with Who Are You in BTVS. (Another pet peeve: when people claim Faith's entire redemption line happened over at AtS, and that hence she's "really" an Angel character. No, it didn't, and no, she is not; she's a character of both shows. The start of Faith's redemption was her choice not to make her safe getaway in Who Are You but to go back to save a couple of strangers in a church, and the extraordinary outpouring of self hatred that was her fight with Buffy later. This didn't immediately change everything - torturing Wesley as a way to commit suicide happened later, not before, after all - but it was the first step. Accepting responsibility, going to prison was the next. By the time both shows have ended, Faith has saved her "sponsor", Angel, has returned to Sunnydale and faced her old demons there, and she and Buffy made a tentative peace with each other. Both BTVS and AtS have other redemption storylines, and I like them in varying degrees, but Faith's is my favourite in that universe.

3) Bialar Crais in Farscape. Crais starts out as Crichton's season 1 nemesis before near the end of the season Scorpius takes over the job and does it ever so much better; a standard crazed vengeance-swearing villain who can't be reasoned with, and an officer of an organization coded as fascist to boot. Then he loses his job and his Peacekeeper identity, and lo and behold, we get both a fascinating character and a fascinating storyline. As with my other favourites, Crais doesn't change overnight, and he starts his own way to become different by pulling one over Our Heroes and stealing a baby (which happens to be a big newborn living ship whose conception he engineered); but his bond with said ship, Talyn, and his relationship with Aeryn Sun, the other person Talyn has a bond with, are crucial for Crais' development. Aeryn and Crais have put each other through hell - he kicked her out of the Peacekeepers at the start of the show, she put him through the torture of Scorpius' machine - but they share a background, they share a determination to become more, and they both do. And Talyn isn't just the "child" that helps Crais care; he's simultanously the embodiment of Crais' guilt, because Talyn's inherent instability and the fact he has arms which make every teenage tantrum life threatening are entirely Crais' fault. Their final fate, starting with Crais' goodbye to Aeryn - with her silently touching his cheek, which is one of my favourite images in FS - and ending with Crais and Talyn saving the day by basically committing suicide is operatic, tragic and the end of one of Farscape's best storylines.

4) Emma Frost, in Astonishing X-Men. Well, in a lot of other X-Men comics, too, but as I argued here, Joss managed to make the very different Emmas from various comics into a unified whole, and took her past as a supervillain as seriously as the way surviving a genocide had to impact her. The last AXM arc isn't yet completed - with one issue still due - but Emma's personal storyline in it is, more or less, and she came out of facing past and present as a bruised but tough survivor who lives to snark another day, and the unity she and Scott have achieved feels earned and real.

5) Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars. I can hear the outcries already: saving your son and giving your life to kill an evil overlord does not a redemption make if it's preceeded by 20something years of being a bloody dictator's right hand man. It certainly is a very different type of story from the other five I listed. Which is partly connected to SW being a fairy tale - and a sequence of movies - as opposed to the novelistic approach the tv and comics narratives I named take. And of course to subtlety not being named George Lucas. But I'd be lying if I didn't list this, because I really do love Vader's storyline in the classic trilogy and Anakin's in the prequels. (Talk about a minority opinion regarding the later.) As a whole, it works for me, I grieve when I see Anakin fall, the confrontation with Luke in ESB is the most emotionally stirring moment in the movie for me, from both participant's pov, and "I wanted to save you" - "You already have" from RotJ makes me misty-eyed and kills me every time.

Comments

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Oh, absolutely yes, yes, yes to Faith and even more so to Crais ... I recently rewatched season 1 and it was really amazing to see this glimmers in Crais (like when he tells Crichton how to make his mission succeed) that I know will result in something wonderful later on.

(I also really love Crais at Aeryn's funeral in season 2; he and Rygel - of all things! - were the ones who moved me to tears.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Crais and Rygel at Aeryn's s2 funeral: oh yes, that was heartbreaking, each of them in their own way. Incidentally, my one and only Farscape fanfic (not counting crossovers) deals with a conversation between Crais and Rygel in s3.

[artaxastra.livejournal.com]

There are few lines anywhere that have the emotional impact for me as much as Luke's straightening up. "You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi Knight, like my father before me."

That's the moment. And somehow, you can see Anakin react.

The power in old, old stories... Golden Horus come from the wilderness....

[selenak.livejournal.com]

"You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi Knight, like my father before me."

And this is why I'm glad Lucas didn't go for the conventional narrative in which the hero, i.e. Luke, kills the villain. Luke already did that, sort of, by destroying the Death Star in A New Hope (i.e. the physical destruction of an enemy or in that case the powerbase of an enemy), but what he does in Return of the Jedi is infinitely more difficult, and makes the story truly mythic. As you say, Horus. And Osiris who became walking corpse in the underworld.

I also love a very modern element: if the old style Jedi and Sith had one thing in common, then it was that they believed there was no more choice after a turning. In a way, that's the abdication of responsibility. But Luke believed there was a choice, that it was still possible to make a choice and you never stop making it, and because he believed it and was willing to die for that belief, Anakin was able to believe and act on it as well.

[artaxastra.livejournal.com]

And Osiris who became walking corpse in the underworld.

In a lot of ways, Vader has been playing that role throughout.

if the old style Jedi and Sith had one thing in common, then it was that they believed there was no more choice after a turning. In a way, that's the abdication of responsibility. But Luke believed there was a choice, that it was still possible to make a choice and you never stop making it,

Yes, the old Jedi and the old Sith both believed in absolutes. And that once you were on a "side" your actions must always reflect that side. It's an attitude I've seen in some conservative Evangelicals -- once you're baptized and Saved, then all your actions are automatically good. And you don't have to be responsible anymore, because anything you do is necessarily the will of God.

Luke doesn't believe that. But then Luke did not have a Jedi upbringing. He was just a normal boy. Like Adam in Good Omens.

[ladyaeryn.livejournal.com]

Hooray for interestingly flawed Chosen Ones!

Faith's fall was entirely Buffy's fault/what she did wasn't that bad anyway/she was completely a victim.

People actually argue that? *headdesk* What happened between her and Buffy was a catalyst, certainly, but to completely shift the blame over to Buffy or dismiss Faith's own very real transgressions is ridiculous and bizarre (and cheapening).

Faith's redemption arc was my favorite on BtVS/AtS as well. Heck, it was what really brought me over to Angel. That breakdown in the alley with Angel is one of the most powerful scenes in the series to me.

saving your son and giving your life to kill an evil overlord does not a redemption make if it's preceeded by 20something years of being a bloody dictator's right hand man.

You know I'm in the minority there with you on Anakin in the PT. ;)

I never had a problem with RotJ's climax because I've never seen the act itself of killing Palpatine as Anakin's redemption. He'd already chosen to turn his back on the dark side at that point, and killing Palpatine (which could only have resulted in Anakin's own death) was the logical continuation of that. I think George put it well in the Making of RotS book: Anakin killing Palpatine doesn't right his wrongs, but it does stop the horror. I don't think Anakin got off 'easy' - he'd sacrficed his own life, and there's no higher price one can pay back. If Anakin had lived, I don't have the slightest doubt he'd have spent his life atoning.

As far as whether people think Anakin "deserved" redemption or forgiveness, I always find myself thinking of Giles' wonderfully succinct commentary on the subject in I Only Have Eyes For You: forgiveness is an act of compassion and it's not done because people deserve it - it's because they need it.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

People actually argue that? *headdesk* What happened between her and Buffy was a catalyst, certainly, but to completely shift the blame over to Buffy or dismiss Faith's own very real transgressions is ridiculous and bizarre (and cheapening).

Exactly. And yes, people argue that. I remember a post claiming that "if Buffy hadn't acted like Stalin in Consequences" (?!?), Faith would never have done anything but the accidental killing. (The bizarro element of the Stalin comparison was what it made it stick in my mind.)

I wrote a post on Buffy and Faith shortly before BTVS ended which addressed a couple of points which were argued back then, here (http://selenak.livejournal.com/45753.html).

That breakdown in the alley with Angel is one of the most powerful scenes in the series to me.

Same here.

I think George put it well in the Making of RotS book: Anakin killing Palpatine doesn't right his wrongs, but it does stop the horror.

Yes, and I agree that the act itself wasn't the redemption. The moment he made his decision he had to act - that's what active penance means - , and beyond the immediate goal to save Luke the death of Palpatine was what would destroy the core of the Empire; he was aware that his responsibility extended beyond Luke's life to all the other lives hanging in the balance. At this particular point, it was the only effective thing he could have done.

[meganinhiding.livejournal.com]

Faith is arguably the best written character in the Jossverse; every moment of her story arc felt authentic and satisfying and when she is redeemed they don't go overboard and go the SaintCordy route. Spike by contrast didn't seem to put in much effort; someone once said that he treated the soul as a get out of jail free card although this is probably intentional.

I am going WTF at the opinion that Buffy was a bitch to Faith; all I can remember is her trying to reach out to her. I agree with pretty much all your choices. Ladyaeryn's quote about forgiveness not being deserved but needed which applies to love as well.

Random Question

[mermaidrain.livejournal.com]

Do you watch "Eli Stone"? If not, I think you need to. After last night's ep I was convinced that you need to be watching it. It strikes me as the American version of what "Blackpool" tried to do with a musical television show (except with a plot premise that can get away with it on American TV). AND it has Victor Garber on it (of whom I know you are a fan). And yes, from time to time Victor does sing. ;)

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

ITA about Faith. I kind of waffle on whether the greatness of that arc was more to Eliza Dushku's credit or to the writers'. There was a point at which I was really critical of the Faith-writing and thought that the coherence of the character came mostly from ED, but after re-watching Buffy a few months ago I think the writing is much better than I had thought. And really, part of writing for TV is knowing when you have a good actor, because that lets you know what you can get away with.

When I watched BtVS for the very first time, I had a very visceral reaction to the Faith plot and thought Buffy was being way too nice to Faith. So I'm always baffled when people do the "oh, but Buffy was SO MEAN!" thing.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

ED is great in the role, but I point to Who Are You as proof that the writing is crucial to Faith, because there we have SMG as Faith and ED as Buffy for nearly the entire episode, and it's as mentioned in this post the episode where Faith's part to redemption start. With SMG portraying that pretty crucial transition for the character. So, with all due credit to the actress(es), I give even more credit to the writing.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, that's definitely true. Though SMG herself is absolutely fantastic in her portrayal of ED-as-Faith.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

She is indeed, especially since she also has to play ED-as-Faith-playing-Buffy in the scenes with Buffy's mother and friends, which is different from her usual Buffy performance but not enough so that the Scoobies look stupid for not realising it's another person inside. And it's fascinating from a character pov because it shows how Faith sees Buffy.

[joonscribble.livejournal.com]

So much word on your assessment of Faith's storyline.

What I loved most about this was that the writers and Dushku managed to redeem Faith without overhauling her entire personality. Unlike the Spike-debacle, I liked how there was a genuine progression of Faith from where she started to where she ended up with clear touchstone moments as she clawed her way up. And in the end, I could still recognize that Faith was still very much Faith in all the ways that mattered.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Which is why it's my favourite redemption storyline on both shows. Really well done.

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

I've only seen Faith and Vader, but I'm totally with you on all of them. On a sidenote, when I reread my old post on Anakin's story (http://kattahj.livejournal.com/227276.html), I found that I mentioned your Five Senses in the comments. So clearly you have influenced my view of the character for several years. :-)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

*preens*

Firstly, that is a cool post of yours, and I feel honored my story influenced it. And secondly, wow, I have more not-PT-hating people on my flist than I thought...

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

PT?

And if that refers to me, I'm not on your flist. ;-)

[20thcenturyvole.livejournal.com]

Oh, I love Crais' storyline - I love other characters more, but his arc is the most consistantly satisfying and glee-inducing of all of them. Most especially, I love that his characterisation is so consistant. In a lot of redemptive arcs on different shows, characters seem to become wholly different people as they lose their evil ways, but with Crais, it's clear from the first season (hell, from the first episode) that he's capable of love and loyalty, albeit very selective; and in his last episode, his final speech before he dies smacks of supervillain monologuing, making his noble death all the more wonderful. He's not a poster boy for either good or bad; he's not a way for the scriptwriters to show how amazing and sunshine-y the protagonists are. Instead, he's a person who is both eminently corruptible and eminently redeemable, whose megalomaniac tendencies are as consistant as his ability to love.

Not to mention, the bit where he kneels down and tells Talyn what they have to do makes me mist up every time.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

He's not a poster boy for either good or bad; he's not a way for the scriptwriters to show how amazing and sunshine-y the protagonists are. Instead, he's a person who is both eminently corruptible and eminently redeemable, whose megalomaniac tendencies are as consistant as his ability to love.

Absolutely, and the lingering distrust for Crais on the part of our protagonists never comes across as unreasonable because he's not suddenly devoid of all ruthless and dastardly tendencies. He's all hte more real for that.

Not to mention, the bit where he kneels down and tells Talyn what they have to do makes me mist up every time.

Oh yes. That's another thing though not what the meme is about - Farscape's ability to make Moya and Talyn real characters to us instead of set pieces of decor. And in that scene, the love Crais feels for Talyn is so palpable.

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

Another pet peeve: when people claim Faith's entire redemption line happened over at AtS, and that hence she's "really" an Angel character.

Whaaaaaaat.

re: Crais

While I agree that Scorpius was, clearly, the better, more fun, more entertaining villain, I can definitely see what they were going for with S1 Crais -- the idea of having the villain's problem with the hero be very personal and immediate and emotional -- the random, accidental slaughter of his brother by the protagonist -- I think that definitely looks good on paper. I'm not sure why it wasn't quite that compelling in execution, but I can't really fault them for coming up with it. (But Scorpy was just better.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree that the personal grudge looked good on paper. What's all the more to the writers' credit is that after hitting gold with Scorpius as the main foil for Crichton instead, they didn't just discard Crais but gave him such an interesting and fascinating arc of his own.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

On Anakin - I was one of the people who wasn´t convinced by Vader´s redemption, but I thought Revenge of the Sith made more of it metaphorically by giving Windu´s death essentially the same staging, where Anakin didn´t intervene.

On Faith and Buffy - the only argument I´ve read that did convince me a bit that Buffy reacted badly to Faith was, I think, ide_cyan suggesting that Buffy reacts with too much initial hostility to Faith´s hiding of Finch´s body because her class background means that she´s certain that the legal system will at least attempt to treat her justly and respectfully if she´s implicated in a crime, whereas Faith probably has no such confidence.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

but I thought Revenge of the Sith made more of it metaphorically by giving Windu´s death essentially the same staging, where Anakin didn´t intervene.

It definitely was deliberately staged as a parallel scene. Also, you know, the fact that he was shown to commit an undeniably horrific crime afterwards - the younglings - which wasn't acting on impulse and as an immediate reaction to something traumatic, as what he did in AotC had been, but something done literally in cold blood (also before he's crippled, which is important) to me meant that I never had the impression the enormity of his crimes was restrospectively lessened.

Faith and Buffy: while Buffy probably does have a confidence in the fairness of the legal system at this point Faith does not, the first thing she suggests isn't that Faith should turn herself in. She asks Faith to talk to her about what happened (I don't think Buffy at this point HAS plan as such, but if Faith had talked to her, she probably would have ended up consulting Giles as the next step). At least, that's what this conversation sounds like to me:

BUFFY: Faith, please don't shut me out here. Look, sooner or later, we're both gonna have to deal.

FAITH: Wrong.

BUFFY: We can help each other.

FAITH: I don't need it.

BUFFY: Yeah? Who's wrong now? Faith, you can shut off all the emotions that you want. But eventually, they're gonna find a body.

FAITH: Okay, this is the last time we're gonna have this conversation, and we're not even having it now, you understand me? There *is* no body. I took it, weighted it, and dumped it. The body doesn't exist.

BUFFY: Getting rid of the evidence doesn't make the problem go away.

FAITH: It does for me.

BUFFY: Faith, you don't get it. You *killed* a man.

FAITH: No, *you* don't get it. I don't care!