Doctor Who 4/30.02 The Fires of Pompeii
Apr. 13th, 2008 09:17 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakOr, the son of Gallifrey and the daughter of London live through volcano day.
First of all, never mind the historical glitches. (The Romans did know about volcanos, just not that Vesuvius was one, for example.) I handwaved that in The Shakespeare Code and with Dickens in The Unquiet Dead, and I'm more than ready to handwave it now, because the story as presented was so fab. As a lot of people, including yours truly, suspected, a theme right from the First Doctor's era, in The Aztecs, was played out again, but with a different twist - the Companion wanting to change history, and the Doctor stating they can't. Circumstances and Companions are different - Barbara, who was a teacher, wanted to change the entire Aztec culture by ending human sacrifice and preventing them from getting conquered by the Spanish, Donna (taunted by her bridgeroom Lance about her inability to see the "big picture") doesn't want to change the Romans but she does want to save Pompeii. Circumstances and the Doctor are different, too - One's statement to Barbara, "it's not possible; believe me, I know" was said in a way that hinted he had tried anf failed before, but generally speaking, he was able to keep a "professional" emotional distance to events, and his focus remained on getting himself and his Companions back to the TARDIS and away. By the time he's Ten, though, he not only has several genocides in his past but can't just stick with inaction in the present, he has to cause the disaster to begin with so that history takes its course.
And oh, I love, love, love Donna and the Doctor-Donna dynamic. Their arguments are made entirely of win.
Donna: But that's what you do. You're the Doctor. You save people.
Doctor: Not this time. Pompeii is a fixed point in history. What happens, happens. There is no stopping it.
Donna: Says who?
Doctor: Says me.
Donna: What, you're in charge?
Doctor: TARDIS, Time Lord, yeah!
Donna: Donna, human, no. I don't need your permission.
And she keeps arguing with him, and it's brilliantly meta at the same time, addressing things we've all wondered about: But I'm history to you. You saved me in 2008. You saved us all. Why is that different? The Doctor's reply is a variation of what he said in Father's Day (I think), and say what you want about New Who, but they do a nice job of making that whole Time Lord thing about something more than "have neat time machine, can travel": Because that's how I see the universe. Every waking second I can see what is, what was, what could be, what must not.
This is an episode which works so well both from an Old and New Who canon pov - when the awful realisation dawns on them that the Doctor is actually the one who causes the volcano to erupt (because the alternative is the world destroyed by the MacGuffin of the week), we get the great moment when he can't immediately push the lever, and then Donna puts her hand on his, and the push together. If you're just familiar with New School, it echoes Nine's inability to push in Parting of the Ways, at which point he gets a Rose/TARDIS-ex-machina to save the day. If, however, you know some Old Who, it echoes Jo in The Time Monster, who when the Third Doctor hesitated to push a button that would kill her (and the Master, and himself) but save the universe pushed it for him. The whole episode is a showcase of what a Companion can be at their best - both a check and balance for the Doctor, presenting counter arguments, and someone who supports and/or acts.
Another Aztecs echo: Barbara isn't able to change Aztec culture or stop human sacrifices, but she could make a change for one individual. Similarly, Donna can't save the population of Pompeii but she can make the Doctor save a single family. And we get a direct nod to her "sometimes, you need someone (to stop you)" from Runaway Bride when he tells her that she was right, and he does need her.
Along with all of this, we get lots of pure DW silliness which is just fun, fun, fun, from Donna doing us all a favour and asking the question of how the TARDIS handles it if someone actually speaks words in the language she's translating to the "I am Spartacus" line to Donna's "you've got to be kidding me" reaction to the idea of being sacrificed. Oh, and of course the family being named after Latin text book characters is geeky love. The Doctor and Donna being classified as siblings and their reaction to being told they look alike was priceless, but methinks that was also a meta moment, as a sibling dynamic seems to be what the scriptwriters are going for, and Catherine Tate and David Tennant continue to play off each other beautifully.
The scene with the duelling soothsayers is a perfect example of what episode does, as it starts lighthearted and silly and then gets mythic and chilling. Also, "cascade of Medusa", huh? I seem to recall the Master mentioning that one in Last of the Time Lords.
Another "Shadow Proclamation" mention - definitely one of the seasonal themes.
For all the mixture of comedy and drama, they never make fun of the impending catastrophe and get across that this isn't a big spectacle but people dying. The foreshadowing via the oracles partly turning to stone was brilliant imagery if you're familiar with the bodies found in Pompeii (photos of same should be online, and one can tell the make-up department has seen them), and both the Sisters clinging to each other and the posture of the Caecillii just before the Doctor and Donna came back echoes skeletons and lava-conserved bodies. Also? The special effects people really came through for that one, from the sun darkening to the ashes falling. Shiver-enducing and awesome.
Foreshadowing: so...what does Donna have on her back? (What? Did you think I was going to ask about another statement?)
In conclusion: well done, James Moran (who wrote the script). Ave atque vale.
First of all, never mind the historical glitches. (The Romans did know about volcanos, just not that Vesuvius was one, for example.) I handwaved that in The Shakespeare Code and with Dickens in The Unquiet Dead, and I'm more than ready to handwave it now, because the story as presented was so fab. As a lot of people, including yours truly, suspected, a theme right from the First Doctor's era, in The Aztecs, was played out again, but with a different twist - the Companion wanting to change history, and the Doctor stating they can't. Circumstances and Companions are different - Barbara, who was a teacher, wanted to change the entire Aztec culture by ending human sacrifice and preventing them from getting conquered by the Spanish, Donna (taunted by her bridgeroom Lance about her inability to see the "big picture") doesn't want to change the Romans but she does want to save Pompeii. Circumstances and the Doctor are different, too - One's statement to Barbara, "it's not possible; believe me, I know" was said in a way that hinted he had tried anf failed before, but generally speaking, he was able to keep a "professional" emotional distance to events, and his focus remained on getting himself and his Companions back to the TARDIS and away. By the time he's Ten, though, he not only has several genocides in his past but can't just stick with inaction in the present, he has to cause the disaster to begin with so that history takes its course.
And oh, I love, love, love Donna and the Doctor-Donna dynamic. Their arguments are made entirely of win.
Donna: But that's what you do. You're the Doctor. You save people.
Doctor: Not this time. Pompeii is a fixed point in history. What happens, happens. There is no stopping it.
Donna: Says who?
Doctor: Says me.
Donna: What, you're in charge?
Doctor: TARDIS, Time Lord, yeah!
Donna: Donna, human, no. I don't need your permission.
And she keeps arguing with him, and it's brilliantly meta at the same time, addressing things we've all wondered about: But I'm history to you. You saved me in 2008. You saved us all. Why is that different? The Doctor's reply is a variation of what he said in Father's Day (I think), and say what you want about New Who, but they do a nice job of making that whole Time Lord thing about something more than "have neat time machine, can travel": Because that's how I see the universe. Every waking second I can see what is, what was, what could be, what must not.
This is an episode which works so well both from an Old and New Who canon pov - when the awful realisation dawns on them that the Doctor is actually the one who causes the volcano to erupt (because the alternative is the world destroyed by the MacGuffin of the week), we get the great moment when he can't immediately push the lever, and then Donna puts her hand on his, and the push together. If you're just familiar with New School, it echoes Nine's inability to push in Parting of the Ways, at which point he gets a Rose/TARDIS-ex-machina to save the day. If, however, you know some Old Who, it echoes Jo in The Time Monster, who when the Third Doctor hesitated to push a button that would kill her (and the Master, and himself) but save the universe pushed it for him. The whole episode is a showcase of what a Companion can be at their best - both a check and balance for the Doctor, presenting counter arguments, and someone who supports and/or acts.
Another Aztecs echo: Barbara isn't able to change Aztec culture or stop human sacrifices, but she could make a change for one individual. Similarly, Donna can't save the population of Pompeii but she can make the Doctor save a single family. And we get a direct nod to her "sometimes, you need someone (to stop you)" from Runaway Bride when he tells her that she was right, and he does need her.
Along with all of this, we get lots of pure DW silliness which is just fun, fun, fun, from Donna doing us all a favour and asking the question of how the TARDIS handles it if someone actually speaks words in the language she's translating to the "I am Spartacus" line to Donna's "you've got to be kidding me" reaction to the idea of being sacrificed. Oh, and of course the family being named after Latin text book characters is geeky love. The Doctor and Donna being classified as siblings and their reaction to being told they look alike was priceless, but methinks that was also a meta moment, as a sibling dynamic seems to be what the scriptwriters are going for, and Catherine Tate and David Tennant continue to play off each other beautifully.
The scene with the duelling soothsayers is a perfect example of what episode does, as it starts lighthearted and silly and then gets mythic and chilling. Also, "cascade of Medusa", huh? I seem to recall the Master mentioning that one in Last of the Time Lords.
Another "Shadow Proclamation" mention - definitely one of the seasonal themes.
For all the mixture of comedy and drama, they never make fun of the impending catastrophe and get across that this isn't a big spectacle but people dying. The foreshadowing via the oracles partly turning to stone was brilliant imagery if you're familiar with the bodies found in Pompeii (photos of same should be online, and one can tell the make-up department has seen them), and both the Sisters clinging to each other and the posture of the Caecillii just before the Doctor and Donna came back echoes skeletons and lava-conserved bodies. Also? The special effects people really came through for that one, from the sun darkening to the ashes falling. Shiver-enducing and awesome.
Foreshadowing: so...what does Donna have on her back? (What? Did you think I was going to ask about another statement?)
In conclusion: well done, James Moran (who wrote the script). Ave atque vale.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 08:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 09:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 09:36 am (UTC)I need a Donna icon...
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 09:25 am (UTC)It really was. If you got the joke it was delicious and if you didn't it didn't matter.
The special effects people really came through for that one, from the sun darkening to the ashes falling.
They really put a lot of effort into it, though a trip to photograph Vesuvius can't have been a hardship *g*. Old Who might have got away with a couple of polystyrene boulders falling but in this day and age you really can't so I was glad it worked as well as it did.
Excellent review, as always :)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 09:39 am (UTC)I am so hyper about this season right now, about Donna, about the Doctor and Donna, that I dug out my book of popular songs translated into Latin (they sell you that in the Roman museum in Cologne, and so I can sing "What shall we do with the drunken sailor?" in Latin) and am singing.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 11:52 am (UTC)I'm not sure whether it's a good thing or a bad thing that I'm hundreds of miles away from you then *g*.
Joins you in the hyperness, if not the singing.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 09:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 09:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 10:46 am (UTC)Otherwise, it was a good mix of Who fun and drama - but not terribly original. The effects were damn good, though.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 11:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-15 08:27 pm (UTC)Look up Planet of the Spiders is my first thought.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-16 05:31 am (UTC)(I watched the Three episodes out of order and it wasn't until I rewatched them in order that I became aware tht the Doctor wanting to go to Metabilis III was something of a running gag from the moment he wanted to show off the regained abilities of the TARDIS for Jo.)
Also: those spiders aren't the monsters I want brought back, so I hope not. Otoh, Donna is associated with spiders by virtue of her introduction...
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 11:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 11:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 03:44 pm (UTC)For some reason I can't keep from pondering the significance of her surname which was played up quite a bit in this episode. I'm not quite sure why 'noble' was chosen but anytime a character is named after a quality it is never done lightly. So what exactly about Donna is so 'noble'? (I'm just hoping it's not going to be another case of female self-sacrifice.)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 04:29 pm (UTC)Yes indeed. And it's not just the age factor - some people can be over fifty and still be girls rather than women - it's her entire attitude. I think one important element is that she doesn't want or need the Doctor's approval. Which even Jack, who is an adult in a different way, does.
Her surname: well, honestly, given that Donna was originally meant to be a one shot character because they never thought they'd get Catherine Tate to commit on a regular basis, I wouldn't put that much thought into it. (Beyond the obvious irony of giving her the surname and making her an everywoman character in TRB, who then as Companions do rises to the occasion.) Otoh, accidental choices have sometimes inspired meaningful retcons (see: casting the vendor from Voyage of the Damned as Donna's grandfather when the actor playing her father died mid-shooting, and since this was before Voyage of the Damned was broadcast, they could change the name of the character in the credits to fit with the one in Partners in Crime, and that in turn probably means we'll see more of Gramps, making a bit character into something more meaningful), so who knows? And yes, here's hoping for not another case of female self-sacrifice. Although, to be fair, what Martha did she did for the world as well as the Doctor, and she got out not just alive but stronger for it, so I don't know whether "self-sacrifice" is the right word. With Rose and the TARDIS, she didn't know what the risk was, she just wanted to rescue her friends and that was her first priority, so again, not sure whether to call it self-sacrifice.
Donna's name
Date: 2008-04-13 04:59 pm (UTC)[as usual, reading way too much into things...and not that I'll actually be *happy* if they go in this direction, since they obviously need a religious studies professor as a consultant on-set to explain to them how to do religious allegory without looking idiotic.]
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 07:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-14 01:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-14 06:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-14 07:47 am (UTC)"Shadow Proclamation" is SO a seasonal theme - as is Lost/Stolen Planets.
say what you want about New Who, but they do a nice job of making that whole Time Lord thing about something more than "have neat time machine, can travel":
TRITH. Or, I guess in light of the episode: TRVTH. ;)
. The foreshadowing via the oracles partly turning to stone was brilliant imagery if you're familiar with the bodies found in Pompeii
OH! So glad I wasn't the only one to notice that. Though I might have imagined it.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-14 08:31 am (UTC)I just saw the Confidential, wherein there's a section where they visit Pompeii and we see the bodies, so definitely not a coincidence!