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selenak: (Tony Stark by Runenklinge)
[personal profile] selenak
First thought? [livejournal.com profile] likeadeuce is going to be happy. Such is the way of lj influence. But seriously, this is a movie that passes the crucial test for comic book movies - it's accessible both if you haven't read a single thing about this Tony Stark person before, and if, like yours truly, you have been catching up during the last year or so.



I think the script made good choices to which elements from the comics to use for a first movie - the origin story, obviously, updated, and also a bit from The Armor Wars. Most crucially, the various contradictory elements that make the title character interesting; he's both a jerk and charming, arrogant and capable of a massive guilt complex and self-loathing. Robert Downey sells that as well as the deadpan humour and the genius inventor bit. (Always tricky in genre movies. I remember watching the film version of Lost in Space, where all the Robinsons are supposed to be geniuses, and not being able to suspend my disbelief about that for a minute.) As for special effects, those came through splendidly.

Speaking of special effects, Jarvis not as Tony's butler but as a computer system he designed (complete with sarcastic comments) amused the hell out of me and was a great choice because it avoided the obvious Alfred/Batman parallel for movie watchers and emphasized that for all his playboy routine, Tony is actually more comfortable interacting with technology than with real people safe a very few. (Should avoid casting problems when/if we get an Avengers movie, too.) Which also makes it emotionally believable for the audience that he needs the whole Afghanistan/near death/other people dying right in front of him experience as a wake-up call flying in the face of his earlier glib dismissal of the moral responsibility someone inventing and designing weapons has.

This being a Marvelverse movie, we got a Stan Lee cameo (as Hugh Hefner, no less) and some inside jokes referring to the comics. (An X-men example of this would be the exchange between Cyclops and Wolverine in X1 - when Logan complains about the uniforms, Scott replies "What would you prefer, spandex?", which is of course what the X-men in the comics wore pre-Grant Morrison and now again. I'm torn between the whole "he's my bodyguard? Who is gonna believe that?" thing leading to the conclusion of the film which is just right (and not just because of what kicked off the whole Civil War saga) and what sounds like a (good-natured) dig at the Spider-man franchise to me (Tony's "and then I'd have a girlfriend who'd be the only one knowing my secret identity, which obviously would mean even more angst and coolness" etc.) as the funniest of those. And of course the ongoing gag about SHIELD.

Apropos SHIELD: as someone who loved when in the Doctor Who episode Blink, a character asked "why does no one ever go to the police?", I was thrilled that Pepper Potts, sensible woman that she is, does just that in this movie when having tangible proof of the villain's dastardly doings, and that it works. Well, strictly speaking she goes to SHIELD, but same principle. Hooray for superhero movies who don't denigrate organisations whose job it is to fight crime in favour of the vigilante hero.

Another important test is always how a superhero film handles the obligatory "hero dukes it out with villain" scene when it comes to the damage said fight does to civilians. Since this particular film has to sell us on Tony Stark's motivation for becoming a superhero being connected to a newfound sense of responsibility, this was particularly important. So thanks, Favreau, for him saving the people in the car from random destruction and regarding that as more important than immediately going after the villain.

Lastly and as important in terms of emotional connection between audience and character of a comic book based film: letting the main character have times of sheer enjoyment of his/her superpowers. Well, in this case, engineer powers - Tony Stark's ability to fly not being the result of mutation but of his invention of a suit who can do just that. Let's face it, wanting to fly is something almost everyone has felt, so the scene where Tony enjoys flying for the first time before any practical application, just for the hell of it, is perfect.

Acting: I've already praised Robert Downey, who really carries the film in every sense of the word. Jeff Bridges is suitably pseudo-avuncular and truly menacing as Obediah Stane, Gwynneth Paltrow plays Pepper Potts like a first cousin of Donna Moss from West Wing, which strikes me as a good choice, and Terrence Howard is very likeable as Rhodey (complete with a clever - and literal - nod to the fact he'll be in that armour at one point in the future). Happy Hogan had a silent cameo which doesn't tell me one way or the other whether the actor embodying him can play, but they'll probably be able to recast in sequels if they need to. I heard rumours there'd be a Samuel Jackson cameo as Nick Fury, but neither Fury nor Jackson showed up, though SHIELD the organisation as mentioned does.

And in conclusion: I'm probably going to watch the film again!

Date: 2008-05-01 04:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] linaerys.livejournal.com
I skimmed this for yay or nay, and I am happy to find a resounding yay! I can't wait to see this.

I love Robert Downey Jr.

I want to love most comic book movies.

I have a terrifying thing for men in iron suits.

I would be so sad if this sucked.

Date: 2008-05-01 04:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
It doesn't suck. It is rather magnificent, really, I promise. And that was genius casting, I swear!

Date: 2008-05-04 01:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] linaerys.livejournal.com
Oh man, Robert Downey Jr. owns my heart (and other bits of me) all over again. Wow, he can do wrong things to a pair of jeans and a henley.

And the movie was just wonderful and he was wonderful in it. Totally seeing it again!

Date: 2008-05-04 04:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
*beams* I knew you'd like it!

Date: 2008-05-01 05:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wee-warrior.livejournal.com
Wait, it's out already? *is out of the loop*

Date: 2008-05-01 05:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Started today over here!

Date: 2008-05-01 05:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wee-warrior.livejournal.com
*pre-orders ticket*

(hey, I'd use any opportunity to stare at Robert Downey Jr. on a movie screen, even when he's playing comic characters I've barely heard of.)

Date: 2008-05-01 06:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
You'll get more than your ticket's worth of Robert Downey, I promise (what with him being the main character and excellent in the role). More (http://selenak.livejournal.com/288693.html) about (http://selenak.livejournal.com/302902.html) Tony (http://selenak.livejournal.com/322702.html) Stark (http://selenak.livejournal.com/290944.html), if you're interested (and it won't spoil you for the film, these are all reviews for more recent comic books he was in, and the film of course does the origin story).

Date: 2008-05-01 07:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wee-warrior.livejournal.com
More about Tony Stark

Thanks! Definitely sounds like someone I would be interested in.

Date: 2008-05-01 06:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bats_eye.livejournal.com
I'd heard that Jackson as Fury turns up in a post credits sequence but that was second hand so if you stayed until after the credits then I'm obviously wrong.

Date: 2008-05-01 06:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Curses, foiled again - I did not stay until the end of the credits! Ah, well, I was planning to watch again anyway...

Date: 2008-05-01 09:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] likeadeuce.livejournal.com
Supposedly the Fury thing is post credits and only in a few theaters. There was a Marvel employee on the Internet whining he didn't get to see it at the Marvel-sponsored premiere, so I guess it might be a scattershot thing.

Also, glad you liked it -- it hasn't opened here yet, but i'm going in a few hours and have tickets in hand.

Date: 2008-05-02 03:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] likeadeuce.livejournal.com
Have seen it now -- loved it!

Also, hee, I highly doubt the actor playing Happy will be recast in the sequels. . . as that's Jon Favreau, the film's director. He also played Foggy Nelson, Daredevil's schlubby and loveable BFF.

Date: 2008-05-02 03:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Haven't seen Daredevil, but um, yes, well then.*g*

And I'm glad you loved it! Woo hoo!

Date: 2008-05-02 03:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] likeadeuce.livejournal.com
Unfortunately, I can't recommend Daredevil -- though Foggy is definitely the best part of it.

Date: 2008-05-02 12:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 20thcenturyvole.livejournal.com
Oh, man, I am so happy to hear this. I've been looking forward to it for ages, but I was afraid it was going to be mixed-to-mediocre like so many of them have been. But yay! I'm going to drag along my flatmates to see it on Tuesday! \o/

Date: 2008-05-02 03:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
No, they got it right. (And a good thing, too, after the not so stellar last installments of certain trilogies in recent years.) Looking forward to your review!

Date: 2008-05-02 07:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] honorh.livejournal.com
I saw it tonight, having absolutely no idea who this guy was, and thoroughly enjoyed it. RDJ did a terrific job of not taking himself too seriously--the "learning to fly" sequence was comedy gold--and really sold me on this guy whose eyes have just been opened to what's really going on in the world. Jarvis the Computer (voiced by Paul Bettany) was really too much fun. He reminded me of Ianto with the ultra-dry zingers. And how can you not love the 'bots, especially the fire-extinguisher one?

Anyway, I thought it was a perfect superhero movie: streamlined, funny, cool and overall kickass--just like the hero.

Date: 2008-05-02 10:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
I want a fire-extinguisher 'bot myself, and it's a really useful tool for a superhero to have.

Re: Jarvis' the computers dry zingers: he has those in human form in the comics, too (and briefly dated Peter Parker's Aunt May, btw, which was a lovely relationships all around). And as I said, I loved that they made him a computer in the movie, because that is totally something Tony Stark would do - design a computer with inbuild sarcasm, that is - and avoids everyone crying "is so an Alfred double!".

Really glad you enjoyed it so much. (Which proves my theory that it's accessible for complete newbies!) Now I'm curious whether like the X-Men movies this will draw a whole bunch fanfic writers into the franchise...

Date: 2008-05-02 03:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katiger.livejournal.com
Just confirming for you that the Fury part is post credits.

Date: 2008-05-02 11:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] akadougal.livejournal.com
And the Jackson cameo is very very Ultimates if that makes sense to you...

Date: 2008-05-03 03:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
It does. I've seen Ultimate Nick Fury.*g*

Date: 2008-05-03 10:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abigail-n.livejournal.com
I like your idea of Pepper Potts as a Donna Moss-equivalent, especially as the actor who plays SHIELD agent Coulson (who I started shipping with Pepper almost from the moment he appeared onscreen) played FBI agent Mike Caspar on The West Wing, and had a blink-and-you'll-miss-it flirtation with Donna right around the point where I was really rooting for her to get over Josh and find a lower-maintenance guy who will appreciate her as she deserves to be appreciated.

Date: 2008-05-03 10:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
The comics pair her off with Happy (the chauffeur who is a pretty important character in them) after she and Tony both after some flirtation mutually wisely come to the conclusion this would be a really bad idea, much as it happens in the film, but as Happy in the comics dies tragically and Pepper moves on to be a main character in a spin-off, SHIELD agent Coulson sounds like a better choice for the movies. He definitely struck me as clever and likeable.

Date: 2008-05-05 03:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] likeadeuce.livejournal.com
Working on writeup post per your request right now, and noting that The Order spinoff is ending, and Pepper is set to come back to the newly launched Iron Man series that starts this week. However, since the new Iron Man writer is Matt Fraction, who also wrote The Order, I'm hoping for some continuity b/t the series. Incidentally, Fraction's Pepper is nearly as ruthless as Tony (visibly more so, in fact, as we mostly see Tony putting on his good guy face and having her do the dirty work) -- which is why the 'taking out the trash' scene that I know some people hated worked and felt natural to me. It didn't occur to me that we were supposed to approve of Pepper's words or actions; I thought the point was to show us that she could be as much of an asshole as her boss, and that their relationship was on the dysfunctional side.

Date: 2008-05-05 06:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
It didn't occur to me that we were supposed to approve of Pepper's words or actions; I thought the point was to show us that she could be as much of an asshole as her boss, and that their relationship was on the dysfunctional side.

As Tony later mentions, she stood by his side all through the weapon-dealing years. You don't do that if you're made of the milk of human kindness, so yes, Pepper having a ruthless side makes ever so much sense.

...and I'm still without a source for American comics in my town of residence (other than the translated into German versions which take a year or so to appear). *weeps*

Date: 2008-05-05 05:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skywaterblue.livejournal.com
Hey! This is why it pays to read the other comments.

Anyway, deeply yes. Of course, I now ship Tony/Pepper, because um, I am apparently trained like Pavlov's dog.

Date: 2008-05-05 05:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skywaterblue.livejournal.com
Gwynneth Paltrow plays Pepper Potts like a first cousin of Donna Moss from West Wing, which strikes me as a good choice

Good god, did you call that, made only the more obvious for me given that SHIELD guy was a recurring friend of Josh Lyman's who used to flirt with Donna.

Anyway, really loved this a lot.

Here from friendsfriends...

Date: 2008-05-05 10:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ealgylden.livejournal.com
Happy Hogan had a silent cameo which doesn't tell me one way or the other whether the actor embodying him can play, but they'll probably be able to recast in sequels if they need to.

Doubtful that they would, though, since he was played by Jon Favreau, the director. Luckily, Jon can and does act (and is personally rather Happy-esque). We should be safe if he wants a few more moments in the sequel (the Happy/Pepper shipper in me is crossing her fingers *g*).

And ITA with the rest, especially the part about seeing it again. Yay for living up to high hopes!

Date: 2009-02-04 03:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 12-12-12.livejournal.com
That's a great point about Tony being more comfortable around machines than humans--and I think RDJ did a great job of getting that across, of making us believe that Tony is at home and completely at ease in his shop.

I'm very happy to hear that Rhodey will be wearing the suit in the future!

I was amazed at how well the movie held up for me when I knew *nothing* about the comics: it worked even better for me than the new Batman adaptations, even though I knew bits and pieces about Gotham and Alfred and Bruce.

Date: 2009-02-04 08:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
That's a great point about Tony being more comfortable around machines than humans--and I think RDJ did a great job of getting that across, of making us believe that Tony is at home and completely at ease in his shop.

Yes indeed, and that's crucial about the character. Both in the best and worst sense - he is that fond of tinkering and inventing, and enjoys the hell out of it, on the good side of things, and on the bad side of things, if you're friends (i.e. not a business partner or supermodel) with Tony Stark, chances are you're either already working for him or he'll hire you to work for him or he'll finance so much of your life that you might as well, with a very, very few exceptions, because he's really not good at letting people close who don't depend on him on some level.

I'm very happy to hear that Rhodey will be wearing the suit in the future!

In the comics - and since we got the "next time, baby!" line in the film, they'll probably use at least one of these storylines in the movies as well - he becomes Iron Man for a while when Tony hits rock bottom as an alcoholic. You might have noticed that the first time we see Tony in the film, he's drinking, and he keeps doing that (though he switches to coffee once he's in the garage). One of the most famous storylines Iron Man ever did was "Demon in the Bottle" arc, and the fact he's an alcoholic is one of the better known things about the charater to this day. I have to add here that post- Demon in a Bottle, when the reader realizes Tony's drinking has gone far beyond "hey, he's a party animal" level and is something that needs treatment which it finally gets, he fell of the wagon once (that was the hitting rock bottom thing when Rhodey took over as Iron Man), but remained sober for decades in real time (i.e. time the comics were written) and at least ten years in comicverse time, but it's an ongoing part of the characterisation, complete with control issues and ability to manipulate people.

(To go back a little: After Tony gets his act back together, Rhodey gets his own suit in gratitude and becomes a superhero in his own right. Which, unfortunately, is why he's hardly in Iron Man comics these days - the curses of being a successful character and having your own spin-off! Ask Angel.)

You can imagine that the casting of Robert Downey Jr. originally caused a lot of comments because of that rather well known storyline and, err, certain parallels, so Marvel had to say "that's not why we hired him" a lot. Though it might be one of the reasons why RDJ accepted the role. Lastly, it's a good thing that The Order came out before Downey was cast because the main character is an actor who used to play Tony Stark on tv, with whom Tony hung out with (and supposedly had sex with, something neither of them has ever denied, which is the Marvelverse for you) and who was an alcoholic like him but sobered up sooner and later became Tony's sponsor in AA. (Tony then hired said actor to work for him. See what I mean re: above?)

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