Here a link, there a link...

[selenak]

Iron Man:

Yes, the movieverse fanfic keeps coming. Sometimes even without pairings!

Snapshots from the Gawker Stalker is a great character portrait of Tony Stark a little while post-movie. (Foreshadowing a certain famous storyline from the comicverse, but you don't have to be familiar with same to appreciate what the writer is doing here.)

There is already meta on an a problem faced by movieverse-based fanfic, and yes, I think the poster is right there.

Crossover time: Supply and Demand is an Iron Man (movieverse)/ Doctor Who crossover. Spoilers for s3 of DW; it's a great idea, well-executed, and should work for readers of either fandom.

Which brings me to Doctor Who recs.

More crossover time: Jack and Sarah Jane, Down the Lane is a Torchwood/Sarah Jane Adventures crossover, in which Jack Harkness and his team pay London a visit. Great Jack and Sarah Jane voices, and Ianto's pov commentary is deadpan funny. I could see that...


Driving Lessons: in the episode The Sontaran Strategem, we find out that Donna is now learning how to steer the TARDIS. This story describes how she got the Doctor around to this, and the Doctor-Donna interaction is just a joy to read.

Their partnership is one huge element of what makes the current season so great for me, which brings me to a meta link. If you haven't read this post already: scarlettgirls love declaration for season 4 just about sums it up.

Still on the meta, this time for Old Who: This post about Barbara, one of the original members of the very first Team TARDIS back when the show started, and still one of the most fabulous companions ever, should be read by everyone.

Lastly, fanfic again: The Man in Black could be subtitled: Professor Yana's Journal Of Impossible Dreams. A tender, wistful and ominous portrait of Yana (and Chantho).

Comments

[aralias.livejournal.com]

i wondered what had happened when there was a sudden rush of comments this afternoon. thank you, tis a lovely review :)

also, i loved jack and sarah jane, down the lane and i wouldn't have found it otherwise, so thanks for that also.

p.s. i don't think i replied to the joss/x-men comment and now i can't find it, but they do look great. amazon tells me i should read others first though. do you agree? well... obviously i should but will it make no sense if i haven't?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I think you can get into Gifted (Joss' first one) without having read other runs first, I know I did, though I caught up with previous ones later. Torn draws on something that happened during the first two volumes of Grant Morrison's run, but before you read Morrison (who is a mixed bag, imo), you should read Gifted and Dangerous and then decide whether you want to continue with it or not.

[aralias.livejournal.com]

ah, ok. well, i will try that then and yell at you later if it all goes horribly wrong and i have no idea what's going on ;)

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

The whole potential for Iron Man fandom wars is only going to get better if Tony and Pepper actually hook up in the comics. And since they're in the same book again and in that interview I linked you, Matt Fraction said "I love Tony & Pepper together. Love love love love love." (I believe that's an exact quote) that may be coming (though I think any good writer is smart enough to know that with this particularly paring the tension is most of the fun). But I can easily see poor Fraction being accused of pandering to movieverse fandom and forgetting that these two need to be saved for Steve and Happy, regardless of whether or not they are dead.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

*g* So we can expect the hate posts and shipping feuds to start any moment now?

I think in comics the situation now would be slightly different because they're not so co-dependent on each other, work-wise; comicverse Tony does in fact know his social security number, and comicverse Pepper has worked in other areas than "just" directly as his girl Friday, and could get other jobs any time she wanted. Which lesses the whole potential sexual harrassment problem in an employer/employee situation. Plus they each have been through a terrible loss recently, and care about each other a lot, so you could write them going there. But as you say, with these character types tension and flirtation is most of the fun, plus Pepper is a decades old regular, so I doubt they'll end up as an established couple in the comicverse, either. (I think the only old friend besides Steve Tony has been shown romancing was Jan after her divorce, right? And that was presented as The Wrong Thing To Do. Oh, and Maya, but the dysfunctionality was inherent there, too, and it wasn't shown as a romance.)

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

At the risk of sounding snotty, I have to suspect that the Tony/Pepper OTP fandom skews pretty young. Not to say that more mature readers/writers aren't interested in them, but I'd guess it's with less of a focus on theymustbetogetheromg! And yeah, I think I can actually support comics T/P better because they both have other options and realize they do. I don't know about anybody else, but the moment I realized I wasn't going to be able to ship them in the movie was when Tony said "I don't have anybody else". Which I might have been sympathetic to if they were trapped in that cave together but, well, if neither of them has anybody else, it's kind of both of their own fault. And employer/employee dynamic aside (you can argue that Tony hardly has any friends in any verse who don't work for him in some way), I have trouble supporting a ship that encourages them to be more insular.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I don't know about anybody else, but the moment I realized I wasn't going to be able to ship them in the movie was when Tony said "I don't have anybody else".

Good point. This reminds me that I once had a debate with someone who thought Angel telling Buffy in s3 that he never loved anyone but her in his entire life was OMG the most romantic thing ever and that this is just what a semi-immortal character on another show she was shipping should say to the person she was shipping him with, and I was absolutely bewildered. Because someone who only ever loves one person in an extremely long life is a complete sociopath, which this other character was decidedly not. "I don't have anyone else" is more a romantic-turn-off than a turn-on for me.

you can argue that Tony hardly has any friends in any verse who don't work for him in some way

Since he financed the Avengers for the longest time, I suppose you have a point.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes. It's like my point about Scott/Jean and Scott/Emma (and fill in whoever else Scott was involved with, or you think he should have been, over the years). They don't cancel each other out; they show that he's a guy who's very capable of being passionate (and of using poor judgment in negotiating those passions, but that's another story).

PS

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Also, this might amuse you for tm reasons:

http://th-esaurus.livejournal.com/880769.html

Re: PS

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Excellent. Seriously, if there's one awesome thing about this movie and fandom it's that writers are going to be able to throw Tony Stark into all kinds of crossovers, and people will know who they mean.

Re: PS

[selenak.livejournal.com]

On that note. (http://starstruck-16.livejournal.com/684911.html)

Re: PS

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

*grins* I've seen that movie and the screencaps before but it's nice to reminded. And I'm sorely tempted to comment on the post about how it's NOT a random pairing but makes a lot of sense for all kinds of reasons.

Re: PS

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Go for it and explain it to the innocents. Do you still have the "Daddy was mean" icon?

Re: PS

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Indeed.

Re: PS

[selenak.livejournal.com]

:) That never gets old. Joe's illlustrator, what were you thinking?

Seriously, my main stumbling block to that pairing would be that Peter has the father figure thing going on with Tony (I have no idea whether Tony sees him as a son or not pre-Civil War - do you?). But someone without my squicks could actually use that for incredibly messed up hate and self punishment sex on both sides post-Civil War (and pre anti marriage mindwipe, obviously).

...as for the movieverse, well, they could always bond over science as the comicverse versions did, and movieverse Tony is looking for other superheroes, I suppose.

Re: PS

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

I think that art is by Ron Garney, but I'm not sure.

And now I kind of want to write retconned history fic, where Peter isn't married to MJ and is still living in the tower with Tony. And while I'm not usually into mentor/protegee shippage, I feel like there's actually enough equality there because, you know, Peter's not helpless and not particularly innocent (or if he is innocent, it's a pretty forced naivete by this point). And as he's a hero who's made it on his own without any of the kind of support network that Iron Man has, I think there would have to be a healthy dose of admiration on Tony's part too.

And it works even better in movieverse, with no call for elaborate retcons (even if they're canon retcons).

Re: PS

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Peter's not helpless and not particularly innocent (or if he is innocent, it's a pretty forced naivete by this point).

Oh, I always thought that when Steve said in "Casualities of War" "the way you manipulated Peter was" etc, Tony had a point with his reply that Peter was an adult. I'd say that he's at least 25 by now (err, divine interventions not withstanding), has had a job as a teacher for most of JMS' run, i.e. years, which means he had to deal with teenagers on a daily basis, mentoring them (which requires a certain degere of maturity) and did get the idea that the Titanium Man thing could have been a set up on his own. So, yes, not an innocent anymore.

(When I reread Outbreak it struck me that he starts with the whole "your armour is nifty, can you make me one, too if we're a team now?" and teasing Tony by calling him "Boss" pretty much right away. Presumably he'd have done that too in Retconverse sans MJ, and would have been invited to live in Stark Towers.)

Do you think if they do the Avengers in the movieverse they'll use Spider-man instead of some of the original team-up? It would be easier as a part of the movie audience already knows him, whereas, say, Hank would be an unknown.

Re: PS

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

You know, I think if they import anyone from the 'old' Marvel movieverse it would be Wolverine -- since Maguire seems to be about done with the franchise, but they still have Jackman on the hook for at least one more movie. Of course they could recast Spider-man but I think they'd want him in at least one solo picture first -- so people aren't going 'wait, that's not Spiderman!!!' -- and if they're doing that, why not just make more Spidey movies that are guaranteed money-makers?

Re: PS

[selenak.livejournal.com]

You do have a point. Also, since there is a new Hulk movie coming out and Tony will have a cameo, I expect the Hulk will be there. Am I a terrible person for hoping movieverse Tony will shoot him into space as well? *still doesn't get the popularity of the Hulk*

Re: PS

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

In general I agree with you (especially if they're going with an Ultimate-universe take, since that Hulk is mostly dreadful -- though supposedly Ellis' 'Ultimate Human'/Hulk vs. Iron Man series is quite good).

I think a lot of people who are fond of the Hulk are influenced by the TV show from (I think?) the 80s. As my Dad, who was something of a fan (and doesn't like comic book stuff in general) pointed out, the premise is fairly suitable for an episodic TV series (bad stuff happens, Bruce gets angry, Bruce hulks out, problem ends, episode ends, he moves on). It doesn't really work as well in a 2 hour movie, much less a continuing arc over 40 or 50 years of comics.

THAT SAID -- I really like Edward Norton, and based on the trailer, he seems great for the human side of the Hulk. IF a potential Avengers movie takes advantage of him -- letting him and Downey and Jackson and whoever else interact on a human level -- it could be a good addition. No CLUE what they're going to do with Thor -- though again if they follow the Ultimateverse cue and make him a possibly-loony leftwing activist who forms a reluctant bond with Stark, I could watch that. I don't know if anybody ELSE would, though.

Re: PS

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

And, obviously, would love Cap, Pietro, Wanda, Hawkeye, or Black Widow to be involved. Could totally do without (Gi)ant Man or the Wasp, though.

[scarlettgirl.livejournal.com]

I adored "Jack and Sarah Jane, Down the Lane" simply because of the Ianto, and I'm really not a Ianto fan in general so that's saying something. "Driving Lessons", on the other hand, was joy start to finish.

Great recs! I feel a bit unworthy to be linked afer that. ;)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I'm not a Ianto fan in general, either. I mean, I came to like him, finally, in s2, but I love Owen, Gwen and Tosh, so he's just sort of around in my TW awareness by comparison, but he can be fun and definitely was in that story.

And pfff, you know your s4 post was great!