BSG 4.07 Guess What's Coming to Dinner, Part 1

[selenak]

You know, in that "Which show are you watching?" meme? Which I won't do, because with a very few exceptions, my answers would be pretty boring? Re: Battlestar Galactica, I started out watching The Roslin Wing but then branched out to watch Cylons and Life of Gaius as well. Behold me being as happy as I was last week.




Soooo... speculation has been running wild for a while that Roslin is not in fact the dying leader of the prophecy. In fact, ever since she recovered mid-season 2, and even now that the cancer is back. Alternate candidates fandom has wondered about were Kara, Adama and the eternal dark horse, Baltar. But I think no one, but no one guessed it could be (a) Six! That was awesome. And entirely playing fair, because let's remember, kids, Six was in the opera house vision from the start, and the first time anyone had it, it wasn't Laura (who only got to see the outside of the opera house that time), it was Baltar, seeing Six, himself and Hera in Kobol's Last Gleaming. And given Natalie's speech about mortality earlier in the episode, mortality as quintessential to what makes a person a person, the narrative practically demanded this would be put to the test with herself on the line, not another model, not another Six, but herself. And yet, while I could see the twist with "she'll lead them to their death" at the same time Kara did - lead them to mortality - I still couldn't see it coming. And I'm so torn here, because I don't want to loose Natalie!Six. I love the Sixes in general, but each of the copies, whether it's Caprica Six, Gina or Head!Six, in particular, and Natalie has endeared herself to me very quickly. So, while it would make narrative sense for her to be dead dead, I'm hoping Athena can't aim better at close range than Boomer could when shooting Adama, and that after some operations by Doc Cottle, Natalie can be saved.

(Also: damn it, Athena! I get you were freaked out about your visions and Hera painting all those images of Six, but that was murder, just as much as Cally shooting Boomer way back when had been, and more so than Boomer shooting Adama, because Boomer back then had been programmed and not exerting free will. Also, did it occur to you that the Six you kept seeing with Hera was a standard model, complete with platinum hair, and thus more likely to be Caprica than Natalie?) (Actually, I think it's Head!Six, who always insisted Hera was her and Gaius' child, though I'm not yet sure how that'll work out in regards to Head!Six' lack of a body.)

Meanwhile, we've got Roslin and Adama intending to hold back with the rebel Cylons and the rebel Cylons intending to play it safe by holding hostages in case the humans will double cross them until Natalie decides to take that risk and be the one to start with the trust, and the Centurions and their new free will becoming every bit as challenging as the Quorum is to Roslin when it comes to the problem of leading democratically when your people just don't trust your every word anymore. Politics, I love them. Both Cylon and human. Proving that the cross examination in the s3 finale actually did start off a trend and/or a welcome return to s1 and early s2 state of affairs in that Laura and Lee actually have scenes together, we get a really good one, in which there is actual conversation with two valid view points and Lee doing his Bastille Day and Crossroads thing. Well done, show, well done. And note that Laura listens to him and does make an appearance in front of the Quorum, presenting her case (or rather, let Natalie present it) instead of just expecting them to follow her lead.

If last week was about Roslin confronting her mortality, this week was about Roslin the politician, and not just in that scene with Lee. She was cooly ruthless with Tory (btw, I bet a lot of people assumed Tory had been the one to tell Baltar about the shared visions until that scene pointed out Laura actually had never told her about them, so she couldn't have), and you know, the kicker of it was that she doesn't dismiss Tory from her service, she "just" humiliates her and uses her. The scene with Kara was in a similar vein; note how she goes from coldness to vulnerability to coldness again, and Kara agrees to do what she wants. And then we get another of those never-failing-to-be-good scenes with Gaius Baltar. You know, I could watch the "Roslin and Baltar trapped on a Cylon Basestar: Will her urge to kill him win, or his uncanny ability to survive EVERYTHING?" show, I totally could, and now it looks like we're getting that.

Sidenote: re: the actual source of Baltar's information re: Roslin's vision sharing:

a) He's telling the truth - it was Caprica via Romo Lampkin
b) He was starting to tell the truth - it was Six, only it was Head!Six, and he wouldn't tell that to Tory, of course, so he had to cover
c) He made an educated guess based on his own old vision from Kobol (but the problem is, Roslin wasn't in that one)

What do you think?

Gaius showing up at Gaeta's, silently watching him and then leaving without revealing to Gaeta he had been there was an enigmatic and great character moment. Until s3, I thought the Baltar/Gaeta relationship was pretty one-sided, i.e. Gaeta had a crush and hero-worshipped, and Baltar saw him as useful. Then the whole exchange where Gaeta had him at gunpoint and Exodus II showed at the least, Baltar had been paying attention and knew pretty well what was going on with Gaeta (other than the useful and now disappointed crush, I mean), and finally their trial related scenes showed Baltar reacting emotionally beyond "damn it, he just condemmed to death with his false testimony". So, that sickbay visit was really intriguing. Did he want to do what he did with Tyrol but when there figured out that just wouldn't work with himself and Gaeta because all that happened between them was too personal? Did he just feel sorry for Gaeta? (He's not incapable of that, especially if his own life isn't on the line anymore.) Did he wonder whether Gaeta would die? Hmmm.

Confession time, though: while all the singing was effective (and either a total red herring or an anvil about Gaeta being the fifth hidden Cylon), I felt sorrier for Sam Anders. As opposed to about 99% of fandom, I'm sure, and yes, I know it was Anders who shot Gaeta in the leg, not vice versa, but Sam still slayed me with his expression and his "he sings" more than the actual singing on poor Gaeta's part did.

So, the Foursome: Tigh is reaching new levels of freaked out with the imminent reveal threatening and of course wants to kill all over Cylons before they can out him, Tyrol seems to have been left in a state of numbness or zen or both after his conversation with Baltar, and does NOT panic (btw, loved that he just silently follows Athena when she searches for her child; ah, character continuity, I love thee); Tory goes from her feeling being a Cylon makes her UberWoman and unaccountable to human standards to desperately trying to make Mommy love her again after Roslin revealed she knew about the sex with Baltar; and Sam guilt trips about Gaeta, which keeps the imminent revelation panic to a low level if nothing else. But none of them were thrilled to hear the Twos, Sixes and Eights want to take them with them and be happy together. No kidding, people. Incidentally, since Sam had his moment of emotional connection with an Eight last week and Tigh with Caprica Six the week before, I expect either Tyrol or Tory will have theirs with Leoben.

And in conclusion: Natalie, please be by some miracle not dead, no matter whether or not this makes narrative sense. Laura, remain with Gaius on the basestar for a while. I'm really looking forward to seeing how that plays out. Kara, I'm pleased there was no return to manic-depressive Kara; keep with that. Lee, politics and ethics become you, but those are no news. Why do I think Laura asking you what you would do in her place was massive foreshadowing? Tigh, it's five minutes beyond coming clear to your old friend Bill time, which you really should do NOW. And Tyrol, if they look up Athena for shooting Natalie, try not to flashback to earlier seasons too much, but otoh, given how killing Cylons has been handled previously, they might not bother...

Comments

[abigail-n.livejournal.com]

that was murder, just as much as Cally shooting Boomer way back when had been

On the contrary, it was murder in precisely the way that Cally shooting Boomer wasn't, as Boomer downloaded and is still very much alive (though she's been hemorrhaging personality ever since, the slight uptick that was "Downloaded" notwithstanding), and there's no reason to believe Cally didn't know this.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

When Cally shot Boomer, the humans had not yet met a Cylon who had downloaded. Leoben had said he would in Flesh and Bone - which was the first time downloading was mentioned to any human other than Baltar, who didn't tell anyone what Six had said to him - but Leoben was talking only to Kara and Roslin, and neither of them is likely to have told Cally. So, for all that Cally knew, killing Boomer was final.

[abigail-n.livejournal.com]

Didn't Leoben mention downloading to Adama in the mini as well? At any rate, I don't think the show's ever been very precise about what the humans knew about Cylons and when they knew it, but pretty early on it seemed that everyone in the fleet knew about human-form Cylons and the fact that they could download.

And in the final reckoning, the fact remains that Cally didn't, and couldn't, have murdered Boomer. Attempted murder? Maybe.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Actually, Flesh and Bone specifies that up to that point, nobody but Adama and his innermost circle (plus Baltar)even knew that Cylons could look like humans, let alone anything else. They kept it secret until then for fear of a panic. It's only after Leoben showed up that Cylons now could look like humans became fleet knowledge, but they still hadn't encountered a Cylon model they had previously met. All they encountered in battle were the Centurions and the Raiders. Even on Kobol, where Cally could have seen them, there were only Centurions about, not the humlons. Now, it's still possible that post-Flesh and Bone, the general knowledge of the fleet wasn't just "there are human-looking Cylons about now" but "those Cylons simply download once you kill them and then live again", I'll grant you. But I still think it's more likely they didn't become aware of that on a general public scale until Athena came back with Kara and Helo in "Home".

Also: I really doubt that if Boomer had been human, and everything else had been equal (i.e. Boomer is in some way responsible for Tyrol's then current disgrace, because he covered for her out of his love for her, Boomer has shot Adama), Cally would have done anything different. She wanted Boomer dead, and so she shot her. Which, if you go by intent as the deciding factor, makes it murder.

(To clarify: if, say, Cally would suddenly turn out to be the fifth Cylon, I would still consider what Tory did to her murder, too. Her ressurection would not negate what Tory did.)

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

Sidenote: re: the actual source of Baltar's information re: Roslin's vision sharing:

a) He's telling the truth - it was Caprica via Romo Lampkin
b) He was starting to tell the truth - it was Six, only it was Head!Six, and he wouldn't tell that to Tory, of course, so he had to cover
c) He made an educated guess based on his own old vision from Kobol (but the problem is, Roslin wasn't in that one)

What do you think?

I think all the participants may be sharing those visions including Baltar and Hera (hence Hera's Six drawings). I wondered about the hybrid too - last week her prophecising was triggered by a death (of the eight). I wonder if she can sense what happened to Natalie. And have all the Sixes been sharing the visions or just Caprica? Sorry, just this minute finished watching and I'm a little incoherent.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I definitely think the hybrid sensed what happened to Natalie. Sure, she could have jumped just out of panic, finding herself surrounded by colonial ships, but the way it was staged definitely made it look like she was responding to events on Galactica as well.

The opera vision and the Sixes: that's the big question, isn't it? Currently I'm going with "only Caprica", and Natalie's earlier words to Athena, complimenting her on Hera, referring to Hera as they had all seen her when Hera was living on the basestar with them, but I suppose it's also possible she was really referring to Hera in the opera house vision.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Natalie: your interpretation is intriguing - I thought for sure she was dead, but would be delighted to keep her around longer.

How Baltar knew about the visions: I was so convinced it was Head!Six, I could swear we had a scene depicting it, but now I'm not sure. I'd still go with Head!Six, though.

And yes, lovely character moment for him showing up in the sickbay, although I really think he did it because he actually cares for Gaeta, in his own limited possibility.

the singing was effective (and either a total red herring or an anvil about Gaeta being the fifth hidden Cylon)

Apparently, he's a learned opera singer, or at least Allesandro Juliani is, as Bear McCreary's blog informs us. He - AJ - also refers to the song as the Stump Serenade. Ahem. But yeah, I thought it pointed to him being the Fifth Cylon, too - until Dee pointlessly showed up in Sharon's frantic search sequence for Hera. I'm still more convinced it's him, though.

Feeling sorry for Sam - not that much. I love him dearly, but he *should* feel guilty about this, that stupid log. Of course it's also very much in character for him, and the scene where the remaining Dylans are afraid of discovery while he goes on about Gaeta singing was nicely done.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh, my initial reaction was believing Natalie is dead, too, but by the time I got online I had remembered Boomer shooting Adama, and the only reason why back then I didn't think Adama was dead was because his name is the first one in the credits. So right now I'm going with "85% sure she's dead, but desperately holding on to 15% belief of miraculous survival".

I love him dearly, but he *should* feel guilty about this, that stupid log.

Well, yes of course he should, and I would like him less if he didn't. But I still feel sorry for him. (You're talking with the woman who felt sorry for Arvin Sloane when it appeared he killed his wife in the s1 finale...)

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

(You're talking with the woman who felt sorry for Arvin Sloane when it appeared he killed his wife in the s1 finale...)

While I always interpreted Sloane as an antagonist, I never doubted that he loved Emily, and I did feel sorry for him in the s1 finale, too. (Actually, seeing how much I love Ben now, I bet my actual enjoyment of Sloane as a character in himself could increase in a rewatch.)

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

I desperately need to rewatch this and find a way to pay attention, because that Natalie was the dying leader escaped me.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

Do you watch the previews or not?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

No, haven't seen it.

[the-grynne.livejournal.com]

YES TO EVERYTHING YOU SAID. Only, er, less eloquently?

I could watch the "Roslin and Baltar trapped on a Cylon Basestar: Will her urge to kill him win, or his uncanny ability to survive EVERYTHING?" show, I totally good, and now it looks like we're getting that.

Helo's with them too on the baseship (I don't think Kara is). That's going to interesting, if all the Eights react to him the way they did to Athena. Good move, BSG. Helo and Kara also shared a moment in the hanger while Baltar was boarding the raptor, where it looked like Help was whispering something into Kara's ear. I wonder if that's going to turn out to be significant later on. But even if it was just to show they were still friends. No hard feelings for the mutiny.

while all the singing was effective (and either a total red herring or an anvil about Gaeta being the fifth hidden Cylon), I felt sorrier for Sam Anders.

Yes, I did too. There are some wonderfully snarky commenters on TWoP who were wondering why the dying cancer patients didn't yell at Gaeta to put a sock in his weeping and singing.

But none of them were thrilled to hear the Twos, Sixes and Eights want to take them with them and be happy together.

I do love it those moments when the Cylon's naiveness shows through. But then Natalie was totally right later when she said, "What if they're watching everything we're doing, and disapproving." She's sharp, that one.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I do love it those moments when the Cylon's naiveness shows through.

Yes. Even the whole New Caprica plan was a huuuge demonstration of that. They are still very young, emotionally.

No hard feelings for the mutiny.

I think Kara gets why he did it, just as she said, and Helo got a great demonstration that she does value the lives of the people around her immediately after. Good point about him being on the basestar as well; methinks this will be useful, since neither Roslin nor Baltar know anything about navigation or flying. Re: the other Eights - I do wonder whether they share the Boomer memories of Helo, if not Athena's, since Athena had access to those memories while Boomer was still believing herself to be human?

[the-grynne.livejournal.com]

I think the Eights probably do have some of Athena's memories, after Helo helped her to commit suicide and she downloaded onto the basestar.

Athena had access to those memories while Boomer was still believing herself to be human?

That, though, is very odd, now I come to think of it. Not only was Boomer still unaware of her Cylonness, but she hadn't died and downloaded as Boomer yet. I don't know where she might have had the opportunity to share memories with the other Eights.

I hope the Eights and Leobens are quick to point out to Roslin that it was her fault technically that the Hybrid panicked and jumped the basestar away, and deny, deny, deny that they had anything to do with it.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I hope so, too, but I doubt it'll do them any good - she won't believe them, at least at first. Meanwhile, on Galactica most people will probably believe it was a Cylon doublecross, though they might also suspect it could have been done in reaction to Athena shooting Natalie. (They don't know whether the Cylons are aware of some of them dying in their immediate vicinity, or do they?)

That, though, is very odd, now I come to think of it. Not only was Boomer still unaware of her Cylonness, but she hadn't died and downloaded as Boomer yet. I don't know where she might have had the opportunity to share memories with the other Eights.

Oh, it's always been one big mystery. I mean, it makes sense they would all share the fake childhood memories, but Athena explicitly had those memories of Boomer serving on board Galactica, of her affair with Tyrol and friendship with Helo, everything up to the miniseries. My own fanwank for this is that maybe since in early s1 Boomer has periods of blackout she can't remember later she had those before, too, and some other Cylon regularly visited to download whatever she had learned.

[the-grynne.livejournal.com]

They don't know whether the Cylons are aware of some of them dying in their immediate vicinity, or do they?

Athena might tell Adama that it isn't possible to the best of her knowledge, but supposing they believe her, they could always suppose that it might have been the Final Five somehow who let the basestar know. How convenient paranoia is.

My own fanwank for this is that maybe since in early s1 Boomer has periods of blackout she can't remember later she had those before, too, and some other Cylon regularly visited to download whatever she had learned.

*g* That's awesome. Or maybe her memories are backed-up automatically when she sleeps.

[cadesama.livejournal.com]

I felt sorrier for Sam Anders. As opposed to about 99% of fandom, I'm sure, and yes, I know it was Anders who shot Gaeta in the leg, not vice versa, but Sam still slayed me with his expression and his "he sings" more than the actual singing on poor Gaeta's part did.

Absolutely with you on that one. I have a soft spot for Sam for some reason, and he did not shoot Gaeta out of malice. It was panicked, and entirely impersonal, and I empathize entirely with his guilt there. And, oddly, I'm glad that they did have Helo come to feel guilty, and undercut his command decision there.

Tory goes from her feeling being a Cylon makes her UberWoman and unaccountable to human standards to desperately trying to make Mommy love her again after Roslin revealed she knew about the sex with Baltar

I'm very glad to see that, because I think Tory-the-happy-Cylon is terrible characterization that exists solely as a counter point to established characters and their reactions to their Cylonity. It never felt organic to the character, the writers' hands were too visible.

please be by some miracle not dead, no matter whether or not this makes narrative sense

Well, "dying leader" does imply that it is a progressing state of affairs, not just single event, so maybe she'll stick around in sickbay.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

because I think Tory-the-happy-Cylon is terrible characterization that exists solely as a counter point to established characters and their reactions to their Cylonity. It never felt organic to the character, the writers' hands were too visible.

It did feel rather like they thought "one of the four should discover they're happy to be a Cylon instead of being crushed by it, and it can't be Tigh, Tyrol or Anders, because of everything we know about them, so that leaves Tory, since we don't know anything about her other than that she's devoted to Roslin".

I have a soft spot for Sam for some reason, and he did not shoot Gaeta out of malice. It was panicked, and entirely impersonal, and I empathize entirely with his guilt there.

There is such a lot "Sam hurt Gaeta, I'll never forgive him" in the reviews I've read that I fear we're in a minority here, but that happens! *points to icon*

[cadesama.livejournal.com]

There is such a lot "Sam hurt Gaeta, I'll never forgive him" in the reviews I've read that I fear we're in a minority here, but that happens! *points to icon*

LOL, we've done it before and we can do it again! (Although being an Anakin fan back then was pretty hard, as far as dealing with the fandom :/)

I really had no idea that Gaeta was so popular, nor that Sam was so disliked. Of course, I had no idea that Cally was widely hated until S3, so you know. That's just me being oblivious.

Sam strikes me as a less morally complex Helo, and in BSG, where everyone is so gray and morality so bleak, I really like that about him.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Gaeta got to be a big fandom-woobie back in the beginning of season 3 when he was a double agent in Baltar's camp. I remember thinking it was weird at the time. Not that I hate the character but that it seemed like the reaction to him was disproportionate. Meanwhile, Anders was the character that large portions of fandom were rooting for to die, in the 2/3 off-season, because he had ruined the perfect love of Kara and Lee. So.

My feelings on the subject are likely apparent. . .although
I have to admit, I went a while in between seeing these episodes so I don't remember the exact circumstance of Anders shooting Gaeta, but I assume it happened while he was backing Kara up against the mutineers and he wasn't intending to injure him seriously?

I've loved Sam this season; he's such a mixed-up mess. Then, 3 of the 4 Cylons are ones who probably my 3 favorite characters last season, prior to the reveal. (Hint: not Tory).

[cadesama.livejournal.com]

Oh, right! That actually makes sense, even though I have vague memories of arguing with someone about whether Gaeta was culpable for what the occupation was doing because he didn't do more -- with me on the side defending Gaeta working in secret. Huh.

I went a while in between seeing these episodes so I don't remember the exact circumstance of Anders shooting Gaeta, but I assume it happened while he was backing Kara up against the mutineers and he wasn't intending to injure him seriously?

Pretty much. He was at close range, and could have aimed to kill Gaeta. Instead, he aimed for a leg, and looked just as surprised as anyone else that he actually fired. Plus, if they could have taken Gaeta to get medical care immediately, instead of waiting for the mission to return, then he probably would have kept the leg. It's not really Anders' fault that the circumstances turned so bad.

I've loved Sam this season; he's such a mixed-up mess. Then, 3 of the 4 Cylons are ones who probably my 3 favorite characters last season, prior to the reveal. (Hint: not Tory).

Heh, well before the reveal it would be pretty hard to like Tory as she didn't have much of a role. I'm more and more fond of Sam, although Tyrol and Tigh's reactions to be Cylons is starting to annoy me.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

I'm more and more fond of Sam, although Tyrol and Tigh's reactions to be Cylons is starting to annoy me.

Yeah, that's actually what I meant -- Tigh and Tyrol, who were interesting, complex characters before the reveal are getting kind of one-note, as my love for Sam just grows and grows. Not that he should have shot Gaeta, but Sam's had a rough few days.